Safe Recommendation?

[.45Cole]

I did a search and was surprised to find that nobody has asked about good/better gun safes. I am after a "for now" safe to keep my property mine. I'm in a sleepy little town where there probably isn't a safe cracker. I was thinking under $1000 and about 500lbs. Browning has a sportsman line and for right at a grand, they seem ok. Nobody in the area has Summit or Liberty so I can't check them out. Any recommendations, I am not overly worried about the fire ratings, and I need one about the "20 gun" size?

[bob208]

I can say liberty I have one . they tried to break into it beat the tumbler off tried to pry the door open even tried to set it on fire. the guns are safe and still mine safe is repaired. the lock company that cam out and opened it said it was one of the best makes.

get one bigger then you think you need. the bigger the better makes the whole safe harder to move. you can also keep papers titles deeds and like in it.

[Artful]

OK, my standard recommendations
- Get UL approved, avoid the electronic lock unless you have a manual way of openning it as well, Get the fire liner or make your own but your odds of seeing a fire are way higher than your odds of a safe cracker. Most are attacked by younger drug using idiots.

Don't give the idiots your tools to break into your safe.

MAKE SURE you BOLT it in PLACE.

ALWAYS GET THE BIGGEST SAFE YOU CAN AFFORD.
For some reason you put two guns in a safe and after a gestation period there is another one in there.

If you have large chain store around (Bass Pro, Cabelas, Dick's, etc) they will have pretty good sales on them. Check for reviews of any model your interested in. Check that you have clear and properly sized path to get from outside to where you want it. Best to have it in a place where it can't be seen by people you don't want to know - especially looking into windows.

Buy a separate fire box for inside your safe for your important papers.

[Vann]

I looked at a lot of safes before I bought my liberty. We have a few local stores that sell the Winchester brand safes, they do not impress me at all. The more expensive safes that I have seen at Bass Pro seem fairly decent. As posted above if I had to buy another safe it would be a liberty and what ever you do buy the biggest one you can afford, they fill up fast.

[pjames32]

Buy big, bolt it to a concrete floor. Mine is not fireproof, but survived a house fire. I had to remove a door and door jamb to get it into my basement. It will stay with the house if we leave!
PJ

[runfiverun]

Heritage is worth taking a look at too.
they are made here in S.E Idaho and are good quality.
if they paid more I'd work there, the owner is a shooter and gun owner and it's his only business.

[Plate plinker]

Second on buy bigger than you think you need they do fill up rather quick.

[Petrol & Powder]

From Artful,
"ALWAYS GET THE BIGGEST SAFE YOU CAN AFFORD.
For some reason you put two guns in a safe and after a gestation period there is another one in there. "
This is true and they seem to be able to breed across all makes and models, it's uncanny.


All jokes aside, pretty good info above: Bigger is good for future expansion of collection and harder to move. Bolt it down. Hide it. Think about fire protection, fire is probably a bigger threat in the long run. A document safe (firebox) inside the fire rated safe itself, is probably a good idea. Don't leave your acetylene torch or plasma cutter next to it :shock:.

Liberty is a good make but there are plenty of others on the market.

[wordsmith]

OK, my standard recommendations
- Get UL approved, avoid the electronic lock unless you have a manual way of openning it as well, Get the fire liner or make your own but your odds of seeing a fire are way higher than your odds of a safe cracker. Most are attacked by younger drug using idiots.

Don't give the idiots your tools to break into your safe.

MAKE SURE you BOLT it in PLACE.

ALWAYS GET THE BIGGEST SAFE YOU CAN AFFORD.
For some reason you put two guns in a safe and after a gestation period there is another one in there.

If you have large chain store around (Bass Pro, Cabelas, Dick's, etc) they will have pretty good sales on them. Check for reviews of any model your interested in. Check that you have clear and properly sized path to get from outside to where you want it. Best to have it in a place where it can't be seen by people you don't want to know - especially looking into windows.

Buy a separate fire box for inside your safe for your important papers.

Nailed it. Also, I always recommend Sturdy Safe, but they are outside of your listed price range.

[dragon813gt]

Under $1k is going to buy you a pretty thin light residential security container. I won't get into the misnomer of calling them a safe. Liberty is one of the few brands that gives you a decent steel gauge and a mechanical lock in that price range. You can get a Cabela's branded Woodsman series for right around $1k depending on size. The fire protection is drywall so is almost worthless. That being said I have one of these safes for firearms of lesser value. You won't find a better value at the moment. The valuable ones are stored in a large Sturdy safe w/ a host of upgrades.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have watch a couple of videos on youtube about defeating safes. You may want to watch them before you buy. Some of the safes that are out there can be defeated almost as easily as the Stack-on metal cabinets.

[Freeandcold]

A lot of good, consistent info above. Consider Liberty - they can be shipped. Also, if you are more concerned with theft than fire, take a look at sturdy safes (sturdysafe). Very, ...well... sturdy safes. Fire protection can be added, but the price goes up. Call them and they will likely give prices better than on web site. I ended up with a Liberty Fat Boy Jr - good balance between features, price and size. Browning and Sturdy were close seconds.

Also, regarding fire rating... No industry standard on ratings so, take with a chunk of salt... Check with your home owners insurance. Mine covers loss due to fire... Not theft. For added protection look into "Historic Firearms Insurance". For not too much you can get covered.

Remember, the safes you are likely looking at are (at best) residential security lockers that have been dressed up to look intimidating. Most can be defeated in a very short time (minutes). They are great for responsible gun ownership (keep away from kids or uninformed) and to deter snatch and grab thieves. Not knocking them (I have one), just understand the true limits... If you are really concerned look into a security system (monitored) and/or insurance. And hide the safe...

Safes can be purchased on line and delivered...

[Beagle333]

Whatever you buy, bolt it down and good! Most of the gun safe burglaries around here involve the taking of the whole safe by 3-4 druggies.... usually ex-boyfriends of your daughter, or one of your nephews who have been ogling your safe for a few months. :roll:
But still...... they take the whole thing. At least make em hang around long enough to actually have to break into it to get anything.

[rancher1913]

don't ever take your safe boating, I had to learn the hard way and lost my entire collection of guns when the safe decided to jump overboard.[smilie=1:

[Freeandcold]

Boating??? What? Story?

[osteodoc08]

Not to get into semantics, but you're looking for a Residential Security Container (RSC) with some fireproofing to satisfy your needs.

Whichever brand you buy, bolt it down to concrete, preferably on 3 sides. I have one bolted down at the bottom, back and right hand side. If you just bolt the bottom, use huge anchors as they can be rocked back and forth with enough force to pull the anchors out of the concrete or through the metal on the bottom.

Be sure to have a plan to combat moisture whether it be with a GoldenRod, VCI, or Silica dessicant.

Something is better than nothing. Tractor Supply will often have sales on their Winchester brand of RSC's and are better than nothing.

I'd recommend a high line Heritage or Liberty RSC if you can afford it.

[mold maker]

Was it the same cruse ship mine fell overboard from. "SS Disaster". The trip was a promo for a gun ins co.


A better than nothing "safe" may be, just better than nothing, but that's all 99.9% need. It's exactly like buying ins. You can always find coverage you don't have, but do you really need it? You already have a very low likelihood of theft, or you need to move. How many homes in your area sustain a fire? That is the piece of mind most are after.

Yes I have safes, that propose to have fire protection, but the fire dept is what I depend on.
No sales floor safe will protect it's contents in a total house fire, regardless of the claims. The "Sheetrock" used is common to most all, and has a specific fire rating that was part of it's original use design. While much better than nothing, it has definite limits.

Having a place, out of view of prying eyes, and secure from curious fingers, is enough to meet most needs.

A serious thief can/will steel anything, given time and oportunity. Making it seriously inconvenient, and time consuming, is about all you can do.

If you need piece of mind, buy the biggest "safe" you can afford, place it (bolted down) in as inconspicuous a place as you can. Ins its contents, and furnish the ins co with a pix/description of the safe.

[matrixcs]

Let me add my 2 cents. Use my advise if it makes sense to you. I like the Liberty safes I have one looking to add another. They come with electronic or combination locks. I chose and will continue to choose manual combination locks because they are the only way into the safe if ( and that is a big if ) there is an EMP to hit your safe. I am concerned other things can affect electronics like simple circuit failure, welding and ligntning strikes.. Maybe I am too paranoid but I am buying a safe after all....

[Kent Fowler]

Good rule of thumb is to buy a safe that has, at least, 1/4 inch sides. I bought a Browning safe back in the '90's and thought I had something, until a friend of mine who had a gun shop told me the thieves were getting into them by chopping the sides out with an axe.

[.45Cole]

Thanks, it sounds like I'll be in the marker for a Browning or Liberty. In this sleepy town, I'm looking to deter smash-and-grabs. I figure someone will kick in the door and go after easy pickings. Maybe try to smash a safe, but will lose interest and keep moving. I'll hang a cheap .22 out to give 'em something for their hard work. Right now I can only spare about a grand, down the road I'll prob grab a Summit as my obligations get off my back.

[snowwolfe]

I did a search and was surprised to find that nobody has asked about good/better gun safes. I am after a "for now" safe to keep my property mine. I'm in a sleepy little town where there probably isn't a safe cracker. I was thinking under $1000 and about 500lbs. Browning has a sportsman line and for right at a grand, they seem ok. Nobody in the area has Summit or Liberty so I can't check them out. Any recommendations, I am not overly worried about the fire ratings, and I need one about the "20 gun" size?

If your looking for a great deal on a used safe drop me a PM. I live outside of Colorado Springs and will be moving soon and don't want the hassle of moving any of them. I will be selling all three of mine and the two largest ones (Cannons) are the easiest to get out of my house. All are like new.

[Artful]

The fire protection is drywall so is almost worthless.

Define Almost worthless - Standard construction of a firewall requires Gypsum Board as primary defense
https://evstudio.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/separation-wall.jpg

Can there be better fire protection - yes, of course.
Best is a sprinkler over the top of the safe!

[Char-Gar]

Gun safes with a laminated door are all but useless from attack with tools. All of your low end safes have laminated doors. Hit on it and if it sounds hollow it is. The cheapest solid door safe is better than the most expensive laminated door safe.

Really good safes that will withstand attack with tools and knowledge are not cheap.

[dragon813gt]

Define Almost worthless - Standard construction of a firewall requires Gypsum Board as primary defense
https://evstudio.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/separation-wall.jpg

Can there be better fire protection - yes, of course.
Best is a sprinkler over the top of the safe!

You posted construction of a firewall where the Sheetrock is properly supported. Have you seen what happens to it in a fire? It crumbles. There is nothing supporting it in a safe. I said almost worthless because it does provide some insulation from the heat. But it does this at the expense of dumping moisture into the safe.

Look into higher end safes an you will see what real fire proofing is. I have my concerns w/ the ceramic wool that Sturdy uses. But in principle it's a much better option.

[Vann]

As stated before do not put your safe out in plain view. When I bought my safe the salesman told me about a snatch and grab where the thieves backed up to the house, knocked out a front window, threw a chain around the safe and drove off.

Mine is hidden in a back room.

[fouronesix]

I did a search and was surprised to find that nobody has asked about good/better gun safes. I am after a "for now" safe to keep my property mine. I'm in a sleepy little town where there probably isn't a safe cracker. I was thinking under $1000 and about 500lbs. Browning has a sportsman line and for right at a grand, they seem ok. Nobody in the area has Summit or Liberty so I can't check them out. Any recommendations, I am not overly worried about the fire ratings, and I need one about the "20 gun" size?

Hum, at least ten pages on the subject showed up using the castboolits search.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=gun+safes&sa.x=11&sa.y=13&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2F&ref=&ss=4860j4153662j18

[Artful]

You posted construction of a firewall where the Sheetrock is properly supported. Have you seen what happens to it in a fire? It crumbles. There is nothing supporting it in a safe. I said almost worthless because it does provide some insulation from the heat. But it does this at the expense of dumping moisture into the safe.

Thank goodness I have only been exposed to one safe that has gone thru a fire, the fire lining didn't crumble but I will grant there was a lot of rust but I can't say it came from the liner or the water used to fight the fire.
If I bought a safe without inside fire barrier I'd put a fire barrier around the outside of the safe.

[bob208]

if you put the safe in a house put it in the basement. if there is a fire that is where it will end up. at my first house I had city water. so I ran the in line right from the meter to right over the safe in steel over the safe it was plastic with deflectors. the plastic would melt and the water would be directed on top of the safe.

[Geezer in NH]

Fireproofing is a waste of money IMHO. The atmosphere of a house fire is loaded with corrosives that unburned guns will have been ruined by.
In our shop we had many guns brought in from fires that there was no heat damage but the were JUNK worth about 5% of what they had been. Restore at what cost at best bead blast and blue the pitting is severe on them.

[dragon813gt]

Fireproofing is a waste of money IMHO.

That depends on several factors. Primary one is what's the typical response time for the fire company and then how long to extinguish the fire. In my case the fire company is less than half a mile away so there is little need for it. But if you live in a rural area then it may be worth it to you.

Next is the door seal. If the safe isn't subjected to the heat the seals won't expand. This won't make the safe "water tight", in quotes for a reason. But it also allows for air transfer during a fire. The poisonous atmosphere during a fire will make it's way into the safe. When the fire company starts dumping water on the fire this is going to release a lot of moisture into the air which can make it's way into the safe. Humidity finds it's own level and does so fairly rapidly.

Buy what's best for you. I find the sales tactics the "safe companies" use to be extremely misleading. IMO they're equivalent to snake oil. W/ no standard the fire ratings are pretty much a joke. Unfortunately an uninformed consumer sees a one hour rating and buys it hook line and sinker :(

[dilly]

Someone once said some interesting stuff about safe placement. If you can frame the safe back into a recess and drywall over it it makes accessibility with a pry bar or other tools very difficult, and can possibly add significant fire protection in the process. I thought that was an interesting idea. This would all be in addition to keeping it hidden, bolting it to the floor, etc.

[rancher1913]

snowwolf, if and when you need to sell a safe, pm me. if I have enough fun tickets I'd love another safe and I'm within driving distance.

[leeggen]

Something no one has mentioned is the weight of the safe. Don't expect to install a safe upstairs the weighs a couple thousand pounds, the floor joist most likely won't withstand the weight. So be sure the floor area for the safe is strong enough.
CD

[Artful]

W/ no standard the fire ratings are pretty much a joke.
Unfortunately an uninformed consumer sees a one hour rating and buys it hook line and sinker :(

Which is why I mentioned UL approved... they have a standard

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/myths-about-gun-safe-fire-ratings/


A Real Fire Safe Rating: UL 72 (http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/ref/ul-72)Underwriters Laboratories (UL) 72 is the Test for Fire Resistance of Record Protection Equipment (http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/ref/ul-72), including safes.
UL 72 ClassesThere are three classes depending on what you are protecting.


UL 72 Class
Inside of Safe Must Stay Below
Designed to Protect


Class 350
350 °F
Paper.


Class 150
150 °F
85% Relative Humidity
All above and non-paper records such as computer disks and photos.


Class 125
125 °F
80% Relative Humidity
All above and flexible computer disks.

UL 72 Duration
http://cdn.gunsafereviewsguy.com//gsrg/_files/uploads/burnt_fireking-data-plus-300x225.jpg (http://cdn.gunsafereviewsguy.com//gsrg/_files/uploads/burnt_fireking-data-plus.jpg)UL Rated Fire Safe protected electronic media in a moderate office fire.

For each class, there is an associated time rating: 30 minute, 1 hour, 2 hour, 3 hour, or 4 hour. Note that this time rating is not the length of the actual test; the actual UL 72 testing can take up to 80 hours!
UL 72 RatingsThere are four types of test which may be performed for UL 72.


Fire Endurance Test – This is the standard fire protection test.
Fire and Impact Test – An additional test where the safe is dropped from 30 feet, to simulate a drop from a 3rd story into a basement in a severe fire. Note that in a fire, heavy beams and other items may also fall on a safe. So, impact resistance is important for a number of reasons.
Explosion Hazard Test – Required test to ensure that the safe will not explode in a rapid heating situation from the buildup of pressure inside the safe or safe walls.
Combined Explosion and Impact Test

UL 72 Test ProcedureWhat goes into a real fire test?
Fire Endurance Test Procedure
http://cdn.gunsafereviewsguy.com//gsrg/_files/uploads/ul-72_fire-endurance-300x218.png (http://cdn.gunsafereviewsguy.com//gsrg/_files/uploads/ul-72_fire-endurance.png)UL 72 Fire Endurance Test oven temperature ramp.



Safe to be tested is loaded with loosely distributed paper and/or computer media.
To measure interior temperature, the safe is fitted with thermocouples at the bottom, at the top, and all four side walls. For Class 150 or 125 tests, two electronic humidity sensors are included, each 18″ from the top and bottom, located mid-way between all side walls.
Class 150 or 125 safes are conditioned for at least 12 hours before the test in an office climate. This ensures the safe interior at the start of the test is between 65 and 75 °F with relative humidity below 65%.
The safe is placed in the oven.
The oven temperature is increased at a carefully monitored rate shown in the Oven Temperature Ramp plot. Care is taken to make sure the heat is distributed equally to all six sides of the safe.
After the final temperature of the test is reached (i.e. 1850 °F for a 2 hour rating), the oven is shut off.
The test continues as the safe is left in the unopened and still very hot oven for up to 68 hours until the internal temperature of the safe falls significantly.
Only safes whose internal temperature (and humidity for Class 150 and 125) stays below the test limits are awarded certification and become UL Listed.
The safe is opened and the contents are examined to see if they’re still in usable condition. The safe interior components and walls are examined for heat and humidity damage.
To keep the UL label, a sample safe may be pulled out of production one year later and retested.

Many safes fail the UL 72 test at Step 7, as the safe is still absorbing heat from the hot oven. In a real fire, the safe may be absorbing heat still from the smoldering remains of the structure.
Fire and Impact Test ProcedureIf requested by the manufacturer, after the safe passes the Fire Endurance Test, another sample can be tested for Impact.


Safe is prepared as in the Fire Endurance Test.
Safe is placed in an oven and heated for the duration shown in the table.
Within 2 minutes, the safe is removed from the oven and dropped from a height of 30 feet onto a pile of broken brick on top of concrete.
The safe is examined for cracking of fire insulation and opening of interior walls.
The safe is placed back in the oven upside-down to simulate landing in different orientations after a fall.
The safe is re heated again based on the specifications in the table below.
After the specified duration, the safe is allowed to cool, then taken apart to examine the internal condition, fire insulation, locks, and the condition of the contents.
To keep the UL label, a sample safe may be pulled out of production one year later and retested.



Fire Endurance Test
Rating (All Classes)
Impact Test Oven Temperature
Impact Test Heating Time


30 Minute
1460 °F
20 minutes


1 Hour
1550 °F
30 minutes


2 Hour
1640 °F
45 minutes


3 Hour
1700 °F
60 minutes


4 Hour
1700 °F
60 minutes

Explosion Test Procedure[h=1]All safes tested for Fire Resistance must pass the Explosion Test.


Safe is prepared as in the Fire Endurance Test, but left outside of the oven.
The test oven is preheated to 2000 °F.
The oven door is opened and the safe quickly put inside and the door closed.
The oven remains heated for 30 minutes, then is allowed to cool. No explosion can occur.
The safe is opened and examined.


The manufacturer may elect to combine the Impact and Explosion
tests. UL will heat the safe for the explosion test, then drop it, reheat it and cool it.

From what I’ve read, the cost of having a UL 72 test performed is around $60,000, plus a few safes now and possibly a couple more a year later. Once a safe model has passed UL 72, UL will allow the rating to apply to identically constructed units ±50% of the tested capacity. This cost is required whether or not the safe pass the test, and multiple tests at repeated expense may be required before the manufacturer finally gets it right. This represents a substantial investment on the part of the manufacturer.

If you buy a safe with a UL 72 Fire Endurance rating, you can have confidence that you have a good level of protection in a fire. Unfortunately, virtually no gun safes are UL 72 Listed. Those that are UL 72 listed are true safes with B-Rate or higher burglary ratings.


As you can see UL 72 fire tests are pretty thorough. To meet these stringent requirements, fireproof safes must be well built.

[dragon813gt]

Just checked my Liberty safe. It's not a UL approved fire rating. The only UL rating is the RSC. If you check the fire ratings on the safes you will see they vary all over the place in time and temperature. Some like mine are at 1200 degrees. Others are at 1450 degrees. When reading the safe descriptions they make no mention of UL approval. They simply give you a time and normally compare it to other brands. You can see this for yourself on Liberty's website. Check the price of a UL rated fire safe on AMSEC's site. They make them and they aren't cheap. Same goes for a true TL rated safe.

[lefty o]

gun safes arent the end all be all of gun protection, but they are a good start. buy bigger than you think you need, bolt it to the floor/wall, and build wall around it. for me personally after one bad experience with an electronic lock, never again. the doors on gun safes are actually fairly durable, however the rest of the safe isnt.

[alamogunr]

Depending on what you want(can afford?) to spend, there are an almost unlimited number of options. At the top are companies like the above poster mentioned. At the lowest level are boxes like Stack-On. I have a Heritage that R5R mentioned. I would guess that it falls somewhere in the middle.

When you choose a safe, you are valuing your guns and their value to you, which may or may not be different than their replacement value. I couldn't afford one of the high end safes such as AMSEC or Brown:

http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes/bf-gun-safes/

http://www.brownsafe.com/utility-safes.html

Both of these are out of my range by a long way. On the other hand, I live in a small town with neighbors close by. Any attempt to break in would attract attention. Fire would be the biggest threat. I suspect that I would lose all my guns in a fire. I have considered this:

http://tinyurl.com/nlpm6bz

It is a 3M tape that expands w/heat, but I'm not sure that it would be effective since it is not water tight.

In the end, there are no guarantees. Too many variables. Throwing money at it can improve the odds.

[popper]

Gun safes are to keep the children out and prevent smash & grab. In most urban areas, fire dept. is there to prevent spreading of the fire, i.e. they will let it burn, especially if they hear ammo going off. If partially burned, the insurance co. gets to play games. My comment is is no way meant to be detrimental to the fire dept. Yes, the stack-on is pretty cheap, surprisingly, school lockers are stronger.

[snowwolfe]

Another thing to look for is weight of the safe. I noticed lately some of the bigger brand names are selling some models at lower prices but when you compare the specs they weigh about 550 compared to 800 ish for the same size models not on sale.

[alamogunr]

Another thing to look for is weight of the safe. I noticed lately some of the bigger brand names are selling some models at lower prices but when you compare the specs they weigh about 550 compared to 800 ish for the same size models not on sale.

That reduction in weight translates into thinner materials. Even the lighter one will keep out children and probably the smash & grabbers.

My Heritage weighs approx 1100 lbs according to the specs. I have no idea how much it weighs with over 30 long guns and approximately 300-400 lbs of lead in the bottom. I would guess something shy of a ton. It sits on a concrete floor in my detached small shop.

I agree with those who recommend anchoring to the floor. My problem is I can barely open the door with all the "stuff" I've accumulated around it. Thus the lead in the bottom.

[fouronesix]

Huh. One post suggests putting in the basement?

Let's see- The basement is normally the most humid part of the house. If a water pipe breaks or there is a flood, the basement becomes a swimming pool. If there is a fire, the basement becomes a swimming pool of caustic water.

[dragon813gt]

Huh. One post suggests putting in the basement?



Reason for this is out of sight, out of mind. And also structural support. I would have to reinforce the floor to handle the weight of a safe if I put it on the main or higher floors in my house. At 115 years old it wasn't built yesterday. Even newer homes you might have to reenforce the floor. A basement typically has a concrete floor that you can bolt it to and the floor can handle the weight.

Assuming the seals are subjected the enough heat they should expand and make the safe water tight. I would not rely on this. And if there are any holes drilled in the safe for power cords it won't matter anyway.

I don't know where some of you live but I wouldn't be happy if all the fire department did was let the building burn. In this area they put the fire out as fast as possible. Doesn't matter if your closest neighbor is a quarter mike away, rare. Or in town where everyone is on top of each other. My neighbors house caught on fire about two years ago. At the closest point our houses are 10' apart. The fire company had it under control in short order. But they were also set up to make sure my house didn't catch if the wind shifted.

[TXGunNut]

Doesn't have to be a gun safe. Take a look at the boxes used by construction companies.

[dilly]

I don't know where some of you live but I wouldn't be happy if all the fire department did was let the building burn. In this area they put the fire out as fast as possible. Doesn't matter if your closest neighbor is a quarter mike away, rare. Or in town where everyone is on top of each other. My neighbors house caught on fire about two years ago. At the closest point our houses are 10' apart. The fire company had it under control in short order. But they were also set up to make sure my house didn't catch if the wind shifted.

I think he was assuming they heard the popping of ammunition.

[dragon813gt]

I think he was assuming they heard the popping of ammunition.

There have been mentions, of fire companies just letting the buildings burn, in other threads. It's happened enough for it to stand out. W/ all the chemicals people store improperly in their homes loaded ammo is pretty far down on the list. My father and grand fathers have told me stories over the years that make you cringe. Like propane bottles in the living room :eek:

[BLTsandwedge]

Safe recommendation? Probably tech metals.

[Artful]

Safe recommendation? Probably tech metals.

was that a stock market recommendation? :shock:

In which case I vote 3-D construction printer stocks :bigsmyl2:

[lightman]

I can't really add much to the advice already given. I know you are suggesting that this safe is just for right now, but most often now means forever. Consider your safe as an investment. Consider the value of what you are trying to protect plus future purchases when buying. I suggest buying bigger than you think. Heavy is good. Hide it if you can, maybe build a closet around it. Bolt it down if you can.

The brand of safe is like reloading equipment, everyone has their favorite. Do some research, there is a pretty good amount on accurateshooter.com. Anything is better than nothing!