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View Full Version : CZ or Ruger in 22 Hornet



slughammer
10-05-2005, 07:35 PM
Stopped in the local shop today and low and behold there were 2 count em 22 Hornets. A CZ527 and IIRC the Ruger is a 77/22?

The CZ is $385 with a set of CZ rings on top. And the Ruger is $400 with some cheap 3-12 scope on top.

Granted, I am totally smitten by this pretty little CZ, but the Ruger wasn't exactly Coyote Ugly either.

Is there anything important I need to know before I follow through on my decision?

JeffinNZ
10-05-2005, 07:57 PM
Hi
I owned a CZ Hornet a few years back and it was a great shooter with just about anything I fed it including Lyman's 225415.
I then test fired a Ruger Hornet and it produced some hideous groups much in line with what I had been told by other shooters and had read.
IMHO, buy the CZ.

Scrounger
10-05-2005, 07:57 PM
That decision wouldn't take me very long. It's the CZ by a mile. It will almost certainly shoot, whereas the Rugers have a well deserved reputation for not grouping worth a dang. The two I owned were sure bad. Neat looking little rifle, but the barrels sucked. Two things I recommend on loading the .22 Hornet: 1. Use Small Pistol Primers; 2. Try AA1680 and even Reloader 7 in it. Especially if you shoot lead.

slughammer
10-05-2005, 09:04 PM
I suspected as much from other post of Ruger's 44's and such, but I wanted to make certain.

I have some Reloader 7 and Lil-Gun, somewhere in a box here I have j-word 22cals in the 50-55gr range. Perhaps the lighter of those 2 will get me started.

I lied about the Ruger, the stock is about as sexy as a hemfir 2x4 with stain on it. I'll be happy with the CZ as long as it can do something in the kitchen.

StarMetal
10-05-2005, 09:16 PM
Yeah, the Ruger is a *** and beauty has nothing to do with how it performs. I can't tell you the number of guys that I have actually met that had Rugers and were pissed. I got the CZ and to give you an idea with Hornady 45 gr A or V Max bullets it will (are you listening to this Carpetman and Scrounger) cut one ragged single 3/8 hole at 100 yards. That's with an El Cheapo Bushnell and the rifle is a sporter barrel with fiberglass stock. The load incorporated WW 296 powder. There was ONE guy that had a Ruger that my gunshop owner friend told me was getting 1/2 inch groups using H 335. Sierra bullet company's tech told me off record that he thought the Rugers in 22 Hornet were junk, at least the early ones.

Get the CZ.

Joe

350mag
10-06-2005, 12:22 AM
I have the Ruger and it isn't a ***. It is a challenge or perhaps a project waiting to happen. However, it doesn't group very well with flgc and I haven't tried it with cast yet. I do have a fun load that works well using 22 cal pellets, but I wouldn't say that I have been successful with the Ruger yet. I suspect it will get a new barrel or at least a set - back and rechamber eventually when I give up trying to make it work. BUY the CZ.
Ken
OK Joe maybe it is a ***, but it looks good.

StarMetal
10-06-2005, 12:59 AM
Didn't mean to offend you. You never believe it, but once I worshipped Ruger..that is until they started making rifles and when they made their single actions "safe" and way too big and heavy.

The Sierra tech told me another tech had a Ruger 22 Hornet, it wouldn't shoot. They took it apart. The receiver face wasn't square, the bolt face wasn't square to the chamber or barrel, the chamber was messed up somehow, I forget, out of round or something. Anyways he said they scrapped the barrel and fixed the other problems and the shot good then. But hey, that's alot of fixing. Then after Ruger had the Hornet out for awhile my friend bought a stainless heavy barrel with laminated stock, impressive looking and quite honestly I was alittle nervous it might outshoot my CZ. Nope, not a chance..but in all fairness we didn't try all the available bullets on the market either, nor powders. Ruger makes a nice looking rifle. From what I've seen they are well finished too and I like the Mauser action. But they've been iffy with their barrels. Yes I have seen some Rugers really shoot really good. In fact another friend had an early 220 Swift and it drilled holes.

Joe

NVcurmudgeon
10-06-2005, 01:50 AM
I don't think you can go wrong with the CZ. I have a 452 in 22.LR, and am envious of one friend's 7.62X39 and another friend's 9.3 x 62. All three CZs are tackdrivers. Ruger makes some beautiful rifles, but their barrels often disappoint.

Buckshot
10-06-2005, 02:35 AM
............I've heard the litany of complaints about the Ruger Hornet. Joe has told me before about the superb accuracy of his CZ.

Neither of the above but a friend has a nice old Win M54 in 22 Hornet that is a wonderfully accurate rifle. With both cast and jacketed. He's had a lot of fun with it shooting 22 cal air rifle pellets and pulled 22 RF boolits too. Both the later with really reduced loads of course. He's shot crows broadside at 40 yards in his back yard (has a half acre) and had them fall with the pulled 22 slugs.

............Buckshot

9.3X62AL
10-06-2005, 10:03 AM
Another disgusted former Ruger 77/22H owner. I replaced the Hornet with a 77RL in 223, and life got a lot better.

If I were to get re-interested in the 22 Hornet, it would be with a CZ rifle in that caliber. The tiny little 223 mentioned above has been such a sweet shooter that I don't see a need to mess with the Hornet's short case life and ballistic mood swings.

shooter2
10-06-2005, 10:48 AM
I have the 527 American. I can attest that it will shoot 1/2 inch with jacketed, but never could find the secret to good "five shot" groups with cast. Nice little group of four and one of the five out. It has a set trigger that's great. One caveat; it likes the bullets seated out just short of the lands. When you do that, the cartridge is too long for the clip. So, it's a single shot. 13.0 grains of Lil' Gun and a 45 grain Hornady V Max bullet is a nice combo that shoots well for me. I've no experience with a Ruger, but Beagle is working with one now. Hopefully he'll find this thread.

In my inventory I have a 22-250, a .223, and the Hornet. If I could find a nice .222 Remington I might just dump all three.

StarMetal
10-06-2005, 11:13 AM
My CZ is the same way, if you load lead long it won't fit the clip. So I modified the clip some to take a longer bullet. One thing with my CZ is that it doesn't like cast bullets anyways near the rifling. Never seen a rifle like that. Most shoot the best with the bullet engraved, not my CZ Hornet. Have you slugged your bore? I was shocked to find my CZ Hornet wasn't .224 or even .223, yeah, it was smaller. I thought all 22 Hornets nowadays were suppose to be the same diameter as other 22 centerfires.

Joe

Bass Ackward
10-06-2005, 11:15 AM
Is there anything important I need to know before I follow through on my decision?

Slugger,

Why I want to wish you the best to your endevors. When you get either one of those shooting cast, we will all shut up and the board will be yours.

If I got the choice to spend your money, I would buy the CZ. Although I saw a really nice Ruger No 1 two weeks ago in 22 Hornet. Damn near bought it for the collector value.

felix
10-06-2005, 11:23 AM
Joe, they havn't designed a good powder speed as of yet for the Hornet shooting lead. The required critical seating distance from the lands for any particular gun is a good indication that ignition is most problematic. All of this might be solved, however, by finding where the barrel should be chopped to tame the wild excursions at the muzzle. Might be that a 17.25 inch barrel is in order, for example. Note that the 25-20 has some of the same characteristics. ... felix

slughammer
10-06-2005, 05:35 PM
Slugger,
When you get either one of those shooting cast, we will all shut up and the board will be yours.


I'm mostly a high volume pistola shooter, cast in the rifle is new to me. Only have (2) 30caliber molds and haven't figured out those things yet. Fall turkey is only a few weeks away, I'll be putting j-word stuff in the CZ and getting down to business. I'll save the rifle experimenting with lead in the 30calibers.

I did pick up the CZ today.

Scrounger
10-06-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm mostly a high volume pistola shooter, cast in the rifle is new to me. Only have (2) 30caliber molds and haven't figured out those things yet. Fall turkey is only a few weeks away, I'll be putting j-word stuff in the CZ and getting down to business. I'll save the rifle experimenting with lead in the 30calibers.

I did pick up the CZ today.

You decide you don't like it, send me a PM. ;-)

Bret4207
10-07-2005, 08:53 AM
There's an outfit called Conneticut Precision Chambering I think that specializes in the Ruger 77/22 series. He has a link at www.rimfirecentral I think. On the old Shooters board he explained what all he did to the Rugers to get them shooting. IIRC the bolt, lugs, barrel and reciever threads all needed work. Wasn't so much the barrel as the lack of concentricy (sp) in the assembled unit that casued all the crap groups.

I spotted one of those CZ Hornets the other day. Nice rig, but I wish CZ was a little less vigorous with the stamps they use for lettering. The size and depth throw a rather garish look to an otherwise delicate apperance. And youse guys didn't know I had a sensitive side didja? I'd like one to play with, but a 223 would make a better coyote gun.

9.3X62AL
10-07-2005, 09:26 AM
Bret--

The CZ 527 is also available in 222 or 223. My experience with both calibers shows your view to parallel mine, and the ease with which accuracy can be had with the 222 or 223 calibers is another plus not present with the Hornet/Ruger marriage. On the other end of the speed spectrum, I'm finding less and less use or need for the 22-250, too. The 222/223 does some real good work.

StarMetal
10-07-2005, 11:11 AM
Tpr Bret

That's the thing, you shouldn't have to do that to a rifle and you don't with a CZ.

Joe

9.3X62AL
10-07-2005, 11:48 AM
I agree, Joe. Since I already have a 25-20 that acts like the 22 Hornet, that entertainment venue is filled. Yet another reason I'm happy with the sub-compact 223.

Scrounger
10-07-2005, 12:48 PM
That's why I don't own a Hornet. The .223 can easily be downloaded to match Hornet ballistics, usually with better accuracy. Try 12 grains of IMR 4227 and a 50 grain Hornady. Or a cast bullet if you prefer.

w30wcf
10-11-2005, 05:31 PM
I've had pretty good luck with .22 cast in my .22 Hornet .......and at standard Hornet velocities. It will group 1"- 1 1/4" @ 100 if I do my part.

Bullet is either NEI 45 or Lyman 225438 made from w.w. + 2% tin sized .225".
Powder / charge is: W680 / 11.5 grs. It does a good job on woodchucks.

w30wcf

9.3X62AL
10-12-2005, 12:37 AM
The folks who can extract accuracy from the 22 centerfires are magicians, wizards, warlocks.....something beyond mortal for certain. I count my blessings for the good work turned in by my Rem 788 x 243 and Savage 99 x 250, and call it good. The 25-20 is even starting to act right--most of the time.

slughammer
10-12-2005, 02:12 PM
That's why I don't own a Hornet. The .223 can easily be downloaded to match Hornet ballistics, usually with better accuracy. Try 12 grains of IMR 4227 and a 50 grain Hornady. Or a cast bullet if you prefer.

Pricing of 22 full gas check bullets is showing me that the 50 - 55gr varieties can be purchased for MUCH less than the 35-45gr type. Using 10gr of fast powder in a 223 case would work out to the same powder economy. Not to mention 223 brass is free and I had a set of THOSE dies.

I do take comfort in knowing that I picked up a $500 rifle for $350. But I will recommend 223 to others. Only about 2 weeks till turkey starts, we're right in the middle of archery and a 1 week antlerless flintlock season is starting on saturday. I hate to say it as much as I hated to do it; I bought a box of factory ammo to get started, only the third gun I've ever done that for.

Scrounger
10-12-2005, 02:26 PM
Been there, done that. IMR 4227, 12 grains if I remember right, works real good with jacketed bullets, producing about 2200 FPS. Another one you will want to play with is Blue Dot. I used up to 13 grains of that and naturally the velocities were higher than the IMR load. A bonus: They're quieter than full power loads, too.

StarMetal
10-12-2005, 02:41 PM
The thing is to have both calibers. I have two 223's and one Hornet. It's not a thing of economy to me, it's what I want or like. It's nice to have a round that's fairly quiet (not much louder then a 22 mag) and has about zero recoil. A 223 can't fulfill those two unless loaded way down. I know my AR 15 with break your eardrums, the sucker is loud. Yeah I know alot of it is from the supressor on it, but my 26 inch barreled Winchester varminter is loud too. I'm not a believer in loading a round down to do something a lesser round does. If that were the case we could do that with just about all caliber and not need the smaller same caliber. But that's me.

I find WW 296 and H110 deadly in the 22 Hornet. The old standbys like 4227 and 2400 are good also.

Joe

Scrounger
10-12-2005, 02:53 PM
That's true, Joe. Some of us need a gun or two for protection or food gathering, but 99% of us have them only because we like them. And some guys like the duality of being able to load down one gun to make it do another job, and some don't. Sort of like pulling a plow with the wife's SUV. It is all up to the individual and no apology needed either way. May it always be this way.