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jim4065
03-22-2008, 06:32 PM
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

A box of lead came today while I was at work but they didn't leave it on the porch like they always have in the past. Instead they left a note saying that I can pick it up at the Post Office if I pay $36.80 "postage due". Failing that, they will ship it back to the sender - and try to screw him out of the money. My postman said that the box was "compromised" by being wrapped in tape, and that therefore they had to charge the higher Parcel Post rate. I told him that it sounds like they tore the box open and wrapped it in tape themselves, and that I will discuss it with a supervisor on Monday.

Needless to say, I'm pretty upset. They delivered a box last week that was torn open and didn't pull this stuff. (And have delivered many boxes of lead in the past that they tore open). If they're going to charge extra every time they mis-handle a box, they're sitting on a gold mine.

Just talked to the shipper and was told that the guy at his Post Office did the tapeing.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

dromia
03-22-2008, 06:37 PM
Enjoy your beer Jim, you deserve it mate. :-D:drinks::-D

Scrounger
03-22-2008, 06:45 PM
I'll take a guess at this. What might have happened is that the box tore up because it wasn't packed and wrapped right, and someone's repair job covered up the Flat Rate marking so the people at the delivery end want to charge a full parcel post rate for it. If you can recover the original postage and Flat Rate markings, I bet they let you have it without additional payment. If the originating post Office wrapped it, that ought to satisfy them too. Probably all this will cost you now is the time and frustration dealing with it. But I get the impression your mailman doesn't like you, and that forecasts trouble in the future. You might want to consider having parcels sent to a Post Office Box, or to a friend on another delivery route. It ain't right but you know how it is....

Springfield
03-22-2008, 06:45 PM
I assume this was a Flat Rate box? There is no rule against taping them, I tape the crap outa mine all the time, otherwise they won't make it intact.

tommyn
03-22-2008, 07:02 PM
The Post Office in Granby Mo will not take a flat rate box with tape on it. No tape allowed according to Postmaster.

Scrounger
03-22-2008, 07:12 PM
No problem here. I tape them so good I haven't lost one yet. I use clear tape over their Priority Mail and Flat Rate markings. If they won't allow it there, I'd wrap the contents in heavy plastic or another box and tape it before putting it in the F R box. Important thing is to make contents fit box, so it doesn't slide around inside. That's what causes most of the problems. You know that Styrofoam that comes in a spray can that plumbers and electricians use? If I could get that stuff cheap enough that's how I'd pack every box I sent. Can you imagine some guy opening up a box to find a solid block of Styrofoam with a mold somewhere in the middle of it?

mike in co
03-22-2008, 07:22 PM
The Post Office in Granby Mo will not take a flat rate box with tape on it. No tape allowed according to Postmaster.

tell your postmaster to put up or shut up.....show you the "rule" in print, or pound sand. inform him you will be contacting usps directly if there is a problem.

i ship 100% priority mail with delivery confirmation.

ALL FLATE RATE ENVELOPES AND FLATE RATE BOXES HAVE ALL SEAMS TAPED WITH CLEAR PACKAGING TAPE. WHEN I WAS SHIPPING LEAD, THE BOXES HAD THREE BANDS OF STRAPPING TAPE COVERED BY CLEAR PAKAGING TAPE.

having said that i package properly for the weight in the container.

he works for you, not the other way around.

( if you want to rub it in, ask him how he likes the new bigger box...loaded to 70 lbs!)

mike in co
part time USPS employee
fulltime brass recycler/shipper
ex-lead shipper

bobk
03-23-2008, 12:44 PM
jim4065,
You should point out to the butthole postmaster that it is the failure of the service's fragile mailing materials that necessitate repairs to the package. And, if YOU are a mailer, point out that packages must be securely wrapped, to prevent damage thru handling, etc. In the first case, the damage happened AFTER the postal service received the package; unlikely it was mailed that way. And if it was, it was because of the flimsy box provided.
Particularly in small offices, these little tin God postmasters make up rules as they see fit. They can't make it in the bigger offices, so they opt to be a large frog in a small pond.

Bob K,
34-year postal worker

Alchemist
03-23-2008, 01:16 PM
The Post Office in Granby Mo will not take a flat rate box with tape on it. No tape allowed according to Postmaster.

I believe your PM is wrong...I will find out tomorrow and report back. I am a letter carrier and see flat rate boxes taped up like tape is free. The rule is that you can't "alter the box", but you may tape it to your hearts content. I suggest clear tape, or avoiding obliterating the flat rate marking on the box.

I would ask the PM how they suggest sealing up the box with "no tape".

Watch for clarification on this...I will post what I find out at work tomorrow.

BTW...there are a few of us that actually do care; however, I will not speak for anyone I do not actully know, as I encounter the same frustrations you all do in dealing with blissfully ignorant people.

Cheers,
Alchemist

imashooter2
03-23-2008, 05:36 PM
Blah, blah, blah. Postage is paid at the time the package is accepted into their system. Their beef, if any, is with the schlub that accepted the package.

HeavyMetal
03-23-2008, 07:24 PM
Jim 4065:
I belive your carrier is a long suffering postal employee. Yes I suggest you take this up with the Post Master BUT I also suggest you find a way to iron out any "hard" feelings with the carrier.

Several years ago I was trying to nap on a rare Sat. when the house was empty. All the homes in my area have the mail slot built into the side of the house. This requires the carrier to get to the home to deliver the mail.

In this case I heard this guy muttering to himself in a low and dangerous mood. Bear in mind every home in my area is built on a slight hill so he gets plenty of exercise and I believe that day was just a little overboard for him.

An hour or so later I happened to see him across the street and, having thought about it. I crossed over and asked him if I would get in trouble if I put a mail box in at street level?

He looked at me a bit wierd and asked why I would do that, my explanation was the mail slot actually dropped letters and stuff behind the bed and it was a pain to dig them out it and it would be easier for my wife and I to deal with a street level box.

You'd thought I gave this dude a yrs pass to the Mustang Ranch! All he said was I'll be right back, tossed all his gear in the strange little jeep wanna be they drive and split.

10 minutes later he returns with a mail box mounted on a set of 4X4's and offers to dig the hole for me! The brother in law and I had this thing set up before the next mail run and I have never had another issue with the mail guy. That's been 8 or 9 years ago.

All my stuff gets delivered! If it's to big to go in the box he runs it up the steps and rings the door bell, if no ones home he sets in area coverd by my rose bush where it can't be seen from the street.


Let me tell you having the carrier on your side is the best way to never have a package go wrong! I'm not talking being nice to some desk jockey with a napleon complex but a serious working guy who lugs some serious **** to our doors a lot!

Food for thought guy's, food for thought.

Scrounger
03-23-2008, 07:43 PM
Good story. I've tried to push this philosophy here on other subjects, getting along with your local ATF Agent is one example where a dealer can make life easier for himself. Seems like a lot of gun people are born with a chip on their shoulder. Working out a friendly agreement (if possible) is always better than litigation.

clintsfolly
03-23-2008, 08:22 PM
a glass of ice water go along ways on a hot day!!! clint

crabo
03-23-2008, 09:17 PM
I give mine a cold Dr. Pepper as he is walking in the 100 degree Texas heat. He is the only one I buy Dr. Pepper for.

Crabo

jim4065
03-23-2008, 11:50 PM
You're right about being nice to my mailman. He and I always chat for a few minutes when he delivers the mail here, and if he has anything heavy I go out to his truck to get it - if I know about it. The gun/computer room is upstairs and my reloading bench is in the barn, so unless I happen to be by the front door I just don't know that he's here. (The time of day varies.)

He always leaves dog bones for my dog and we get along very well - I thought. Sounds like I have some "making-up" to do, and I'll do it. Gonna offer to pick up all heavy packages at the Post Office, if he will just leave a note.

After all is said and done, I still am not going to pay $36.80 additional freight on a package for which the postage was already paid. It's capricious, irregular, unsavory, asinine and totally out of line - in addition to most probably being illegal. The guy should have talked to me - period. We were friends, I thought. I will never understand people who let a problem eat away at their guts until they go ballistic - without having the courage to simply discuss it man to man.

Matter-of-fact, the Post Office is kinda famous for that. Seems to be a plague which affects some other "Public Servants", too.

Scrounger
03-24-2008, 12:25 AM
As an ex-Postal employee I have a theory about that. Actually two theories.
1. It's a numbers thing. The Postal Service when I was there had about 800,000 employees; I think only the Defense Department had more, and most of them were military or had military backgrounds. If you did the percentages, we probably didn't have too many more whackos per capita than cab drivers, cooks, or any other profession you could name.
2. We didn't get the cream of the crop. We were forced to hire Veterans, especially those with disabilities. And after Viet Nam many of those disabilities were of the mental variety. Of the people I personally worked with over 32 years, three of them committed suicide, two of the three were Veterans who had been let out because of psychological problems; the third may have been a vet but he was in his 50s, Las Vegas in the early 60s. He was a really nice guy but he was despondent because his wife of many years had divorced him. There was another disturbed Vet who brought a .45 to work one day, killed a boss and put two more in the hospital, never to return to work. Thanks to our enlightened judicial system, he was not executed or sentenced to a life term, he was put in a hospital for 10 or 15 years. Then, believe it or not, we were forced to give him his job back! There were more disturbed people but fortunately they recovered or moved on. It was an interesting job.

Hey, it sounds like I'm picking on veterans but that's not true, I'm just saying that some of them were a little disturbed, shall we say, and a private company would probably never have hired them in the first place, but we had no choice.

nvbirdman
03-24-2008, 12:41 AM
Please don't put all the blame on your carrier. There is about a 90% chance that your package was rated up postage due before your carrier ever saw it. It was probably a sorting clerk that decided it should be postage due and once they tell the carrier to collect he or she has no choice in the matter.

imashooter2
03-24-2008, 07:26 AM
How can the package be accepted into their system and be postage due? This isn't a letter that could be dropped into a box. It was a package presented to a duly authorized representative of their company who assigned the cost and collected it.

By accepting the money and the package, the company entered into a contract to deliver it. Now they want to modify the contract.

Lead melter
03-24-2008, 08:13 AM
I assume this was a Flat Rate box? There is no rule against taping them, I tape the crap outa mine all the time, otherwise they won't make it intact.


The first box of linotype I ever ordered came with a copy of a letter posted on the side of the box. The letter was from the Postmaster General in D.C. and in no uncertain terms explained that Flat Rate boxes and envelopes had absolutely no weight limitations. The package could be reinforced with tape, but MUST have been closed with contents inside using the package closing system...no modification allowed.
The fellow from whom I ordered had run into this stuff before, and really got results when the explanation came from "The Man".
Perhaps an email, or posted letter would get you a letter explaining this to your postmaster and would resolve any further problems you, collectively, may have in the future.

LAH
03-24-2008, 09:26 AM
What does the post office say: http://www.usps.com/shipping/flatrate.htm


Boxes

Flat Rate Boxes are available in multiple sizes and shapes to accommodate a variety of contents and shipping needs.

Both Flat Rate Boxes, the shirt box size (11" x 8.5" x 5.5") and the shoe box size (13.625" x 11.875" x 3.375"), can be used for domestic and international shipping.
— Available to anywhere in the U.S. for $8.95
— One rate to Canada and Mexico for $23.00
— One rate to all other countries for $37.00
*20 pound maximum for international shipments

The Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box, (12" x 12" x 5.5") is 50% larger than the original Flat Rate Boxes.
— Domestic $12.95
— APO/FPO $10.95
— Canada/Mexico $29.95
— Other countries $49.95

The contents of the flat rate box must be neatly contained inside the box with adhesive packaging tape.

The box must close securely and retain its shape when taped with adhesive.

The shape of the box may not be changed or enlarged to fit its contents.

Extra services such as Delivery Confirmation™, Signature Confirmation® (not available for international shipping), and Insurance are available to use with Priority Mail Flat-Rate Envelopes and Boxes.

jim4065
03-24-2008, 11:12 AM
Talked to the P.O. manager in Colorado and then the local "Manager of Shipping". The package will be delivered today at no additional charge. Hope it happens while I'm here, I need to talk to my mailman. :-D

Alchemist
03-24-2008, 04:00 PM
Please don't put all the blame on your carrier. There is about a 90% chance that your package was rated up postage due before your carrier ever saw it. It was probably a sorting clerk that decided it should be postage due and once they tell the carrier to collect he or she has no choice in the matter.

BINGO!!

As a current letter carrier I can assure you that it is not up to the carrier what is postage due! If the package is still in the hands of the Postal Service, I would go to your P.O. and inquire WHY it is postage due. Ask them to show you the postage rates to verify what they're telling you. Talk to the Post Master if possible. If it is unclaimed at destination, it will go back to the sender and they will have to pay to get it back. It might be a good idea to contact the shipper and see what you can work out...maybe credit you something?

In a previous post I promised to find out about the tape issue and flat rate boxes. Here's what I got so far...

Flat rate boxes can't be "altered"; that is, cut down, buldged out, re-shaped....you get the idea. The flat rate symbol needs to be showing, so use clear tape over that part. Also make sure the contents aren't going to flop around inside the box, that's what breaks 'em open from the inside.

One more thought...as hard as it is sometimes, remember that counter clerks and letter carriers are people too. Mistakes get made, wrong info becomes "the rules" , etc. You don't have to kiss their ***, but don't expect someone to carry heavy boxes, avoid the toys all over the yard, dodge the dog poop and believe your "dog don't bite" all at the same time. There's usually two sides to every story.

I've made some statements not everyone will agree with; let the flaming begin!

Alchemist

Alchemist
03-24-2008, 04:10 PM
OOPS!!

Didn't read all the subsequent posts before jumping in....glad you got your package without additional postage. Sometimes ya gotta "remind" some folks that it's the "United States Postal Service".

Alchemist

dakotashooter2
03-24-2008, 06:06 PM
Also keep in mine that you are supposed to be able to ship up to 70 lbs in these boxes. Their rule, not ours. We all have enough experience to know that there is no way those boxes will handle that load without being taped up. If they expect those boxes to handle such a load untaped they better start building them stronger.

mike in co
03-24-2008, 06:19 PM
here is the bad news on your resolution:
the post office allows you to move your delivery point away from your house/closer to the street but ONCE DONE IT CAN NEVER BE REVERSED........you can no longer go back to home(physically) delivery. its nice that he deliveres to your house, but he can legally get away with leaving a notice and having you pick up at the post office.

mike in co


Jim 4065:
I belive your carrier is a long suffering postal employee. Yes I suggest you take this up with the Post Master BUT I also suggest you find a way to iron out any "hard" feelings with the carrier.

Several years ago I was trying to nap on a rare Sat. when the house was empty. All the homes in my area have the mail slot built into the side of the house. This requires the carrier to get to the home to deliver the mail.

In this case I heard this guy muttering to himself in a low and dangerous mood. Bear in mind every home in my area is built on a slight hill so he gets plenty of exercise and I believe that day was just a little overboard for him.

An hour or so later I happened to see him across the street and, having thought about it. I crossed over and asked him if I would get in trouble if I put a mail box in at street level?

He looked at me a bit wierd and asked why I would do that, my explanation was the mail slot actually dropped letters and stuff behind the bed and it was a pain to dig them out it and it would be easier for my wife and I to deal with a street level box.

You'd thought I gave this dude a yrs pass to the Mustang Ranch! All he said was I'll be right back, tossed all his gear in the strange little jeep wanna be they drive and split.

10 minutes later he returns with a mail box mounted on a set of 4X4's and offers to dig the hole for me! The brother in law and I had this thing set up before the next mail run and I have never had another issue with the mail guy. That's been 8 or 9 years ago.

All my stuff gets delivered! If it's to big to go in the box he runs it up the steps and rings the door bell, if no ones home he sets in area coverd by my rose bush where it can't be seen from the street.


Let me tell you having the carrier on your side is the best way to never have a package go wrong! I'm not talking being nice to some desk jockey with a napleon complex but a serious working guy who lugs some serious **** to our doors a lot!

Food for thought guy's, food for thought.

jim4065
03-24-2008, 09:38 PM
The package was delivered by someone other than my postman. It had three sides ripped open and had about 35#'s of lead left inside. I thought it may have been a statement, so I remarked that in future I'll pay extra to get it insured. When the young man kind of stared back I told him that to cover the extra cost I will only get it in quantities of 65#'s plus. He said that what I needed to do was cut the weight down, but I told him I couldn't afford to pay twice as much for shipping. Kind of a hollow threat, but hopefully the idea might get around back at the Post Office.

Not a bad kid really - and I still like my postman; but the USPS set the limit at 70 pounds, not me. Have to presume they know what they're doing and that they want the business. If not, they'ed have the weight set at 25 pounds (or whatever). Anyway - they got me this time. :(

HeavyMetal
03-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Mike in co:
I hadn't realized I might never be able to go back to having them dump the mail in my built in slot.

My original thought was to make my carrier a happy guy and not have to move my bed everytime my wife thought a bill was lost.

Since I walk right past the mailbox on my way up the steps it's only going to be a problem when I can no longer move under my own steam and when that happens I won't have to worry about bills any more.

It is good information to have in case someone else is thinking about moving thier mailing point.

Scrounger
03-25-2008, 12:31 AM
Technically you can't change it without Post Office permission. Their interest is in using less time. This rule is not usually enforced in older neighborhoods, but in newer areas where the delivery is all curbside (by vehicle), and the newest style, CBUs. (A "gang box" set up every block or so, like apartment buildings), they will not allow changes. Here it is all curbside and all boxes are on the same side of the street so the carrier drives down one street and up the next. My box is across the street in front of a vacant lot. Not very secure.

mike in co
03-25-2008, 12:45 AM
The package was delivered by someone other than my postman. It had three sides ripped open and had about 35#'s of lead left inside. I thought it may have been a statement, so I remarked that in future I'll pay extra to get it insured. When the young man kind of stared back I told him that to cover the extra cost I will only get it in quantities of 65#'s plus. He said that what I needed to do was cut the weight down, but I told him I couldn't afford to pay twice as much for shipping. Kind of a hollow threat, but hopefully the idea might get around back at the Post Office.

Not a bad kid really - and I still like my postman; but the USPS set the limit at 70 pounds, not me. Have to presume they know what they're doing and that they want the business. If not, they'ed have the weight set at 25 pounds (or whatever). Anyway - they got me this time. :(


the post office set the limit at 70 lbs....the user is responible for proper packaging.
go look at my lead sales posts. i set my limit at 42 lbs...and there is 3 lbs of additional cardboard packaging in the flate rate box. no way for the lead to move inside the box.
your experience with 65 lbs is just why i would not ship more.
did it have delivery confirmation ??
i will not say the post office never screwed up a package, but improper packaging is a big cause of destroryed boxes.

mike in co

LAH
03-25-2008, 07:50 AM
Shipping 70 pounds......................Do it all the time, well 65-68 pounds. I shipped maybe 15 boxes last month that held 2000 ea. 45-230-LRN bullets. That's 65.7 pounds of bullets plus packing. I insure all my packages so if they are damaged or lost I collect from the Postal Service. It's like selling two orders instead of one.

Dry Creek has shipped many, many of these boxes over the years and claims have been fewer than 10. To me that's as good or better service than UPS gave us before the flat rate boxes. Yes we had problems with certain Postmasters but when I went up the food chain, they were always handled. Their rules were always followed. So all in all I have no complaints with the Post Office.

As for my carrier? We receive loads of lead, bullets, etc in flat rate boxes. I told my mailman on days it rains or was too hot or if he just simply didn't feel well to just leave me a notice and I would go to the Post Office and pick the boxes up myself. And yes a good cold bottle of water or the above mentioned Dr Pepper never hurts...............Creeker

brshooter
03-25-2008, 07:59 AM
If you want the actual truth on postal regs. call 1-800-275-8777, item 5, #5 (complaint, etc. You will be connected to an person.) The Postmaster is required to monitor this message system twice a day and if he has any complaints to answer them post haste. My postmaster informed me of this and said if the issue is not cleared asap, Washington will clear it up.

dakotashooter2
03-26-2008, 03:02 PM
Their interest is in using less time.


LOL


Around here they deliver to 3 or 4 houses then walk back to their truck, drive down the block and repeat. Instead of going down one side of the street and back up the other.

Sam
03-26-2008, 03:13 PM
PO is just a big pain int he backside.

Make them show any rule in writing. I went onto that after our Postmaster refused to accept some firearms for mailing.

In any case, it's a long drive to the Post office and If I have to pickup or ship through the Post office, my price goes up by $20 a package.

I know you all like to ship lead that way because it's cheaper but not for me.

Sam

clintsfolly
03-26-2008, 05:22 PM
got a flat rate envelope form Bullshop (just what i wanted. will let the boys know what the jb,s shoot like) was taped all over and the PO wanted$11.45 postage due!! my carrier was cool and told me not to pay but go see the PM. in our meeting i ask to see the rules and he found out that the old rule said said one tape on the flap only the new rule is (tape may be applied to flap and seams to reinforce the container provided the container is not enlarged) got my bullet and a good ruling for his staff have fun clint

Scrounger
03-27-2008, 04:48 PM
The Post Office sure comes up with funny ideas... My carrier was telling me yesterday that there is a rate increase sometime in May. But if you buy a new stamp they're coming out with before then, you get to continue mailing at the old rate. They call it the "Forever Stamp". It allows you to mail one one ounce letter forever or until you run out of those stamps. Can you see someone going in and buying a thousand of them? I think I'll pass, I use very few stamps. On the other hand... A thousand costs $410; 20 years from now when it costs $5 to mail a letter, you can sell those stamps for $4 each, almost a thousand per cent profit. I'm going to have to rethink that....
I can see and appreciate the liberty bell, but it just doesn't seem right to glorify on a stamp, A soft drink made famous by Yogi Berra, a dumb cartoon character, and a guy who became famous for dressing in women's clothing...

MT Gianni
03-27-2008, 06:05 PM
Scrounger, my local Post office has had these since Nov. or whenever the last rate increase came through and there are only 1000 people in town. Gianni