mini 14 jamming/not cycling

[mikej]

Howdy, I have a 181 series mini that i've cleaned thoroughly every nook, oiled well and im having issues with it cycling properly. Sans magazine it seems to operate fine and works fine as a single shot, but with either of my mags (both ruger), there's a bunch of tension on the casings and it operates very stiff. Ive used my borelight and lightly polished the chamber and its edges, which seemed to help, but only minimally. The action will stand open without being latched and not push the round in, but if i cycle it manually, it will shut with some pushing and stick closed. Firing rounds is hit and miss firing properly less than 50%. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe the mainspring may need replacing, but that still wouldn't explain why it sticks shut. Ive only had it a short while, and picked it up used for about half what they usually sell for here.

[brassrat]

Send it to Ruger

[youngmman]

If you are trying to chamber reloads then maybe you have a tight chamber needing a small base die. If new factory bullets chamber ok then it's the die. Otherwise send it back to Ruger.

[Artful]

Agree with youngman, first try factory ammo, If you reloaded these is the brass range pickup? My experience is that there are a lot of 5.56/223 chambers that leave once fired cases overly large for other rifles.

Also did the magazines come with the rifle or did you just purchase them?
Do you have the original 5 round factory mag? or are they larger capacity (20-30 rnds)?

When you say stick closed is it doing that with the magazine in place, but not doing it with the magazine removed?

I have an idea but want to know if you have a wooden stocked gun first.

[Maximumbob54]

If this is your first Mini then just remember one thing. There are only Ruger factory mags. All other mags need to just be invisible to you.

[Artful]

If this is your first Mini then just remember one thing. There are only Ruger factory mags. All other mags need to just be invisible to you.

Incorrect - there are other brands of magazines that work just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znJCdgFfhbk

[Artful]

And the MWG 90 rounders work for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDjcNipTpCs

[Prospector Howard]

I had a similar issue with my Mini 14 that I bought used for cheap at a pawn shop. When I looked it over the guy at the counter said to make an offer because it was rough and sticking when you cycled the action and it might have to go back to Ruger to be fixed. I took the chance that I could fix it myself and bought it for $300. When I took it apart it was obvious that the top of the hammer was rough and scored from not ever being taken care of. I used fine sandpaper starting with 400 grit and worked up to 1500 grit till it was very smooth. Also, used 1500 grit on the bolt to smooth up the scoring on it too. Works perfect now. I always put a light film of grease on top of the hammer before every outing. This might not be your problem, it's hard to tell by your description. You could check it out though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes I'd try a new factory magazine first. I also have Tapco Mags and they work well.

Typically Mini 14 feed problems are directly related to magazine issues.

With the bolt closed can you insert a magazine easily? if not, the rear lug on the mag is too long. I have had this problem of three out of five Factory 10 rounders that I have.

You simply use the edge of a small mill file to raise the bottom edge up until the mag inserts easily and the catch snaps into position. Put a piece of masking tape on the mag just under the lug so as not to scratch the mag body with the file. All of this needs to be done very carefully and you need to recheck inserting the mag every few strokes.

What happens to some of the mags when they are made is,,, if they have the lug spot welded on it is not positioned exactly right when it is done.

I measured a mag that worked well and found the lugs on the mags that didn't work well to be .010 to.030 lower than the good mags. I raised up the bottom edge and end of problems.

This won't show up if you insert the mag with the bolt open. What is happening is that top cartridge in the mag is being pressed against the bottom of the bolt much harder than if spaced correctly. This makes it very difficult to rock the mag into place and have it latch in place as you are having to compress the mag spring. Obviously if the bolt is open when inserting the mag this doesn't occur, in which case the cartridge is simply sticking up too high and as the bolt closes it rubs on the next cartridge in the mag.

This would account for all of your problems, except possibly understanding the meaning of life...

Randy

[Maximumbob54]

I stand corrected. Tapco didn't offer mags when I had mine. I'm glad someone besides Ruger finally figured it out. As for the 90 round whatever mag, guy, you hit the lottery on that one.

[Artful]

I stand corrected. Tapco didn't offer mags when I had mine. I'm glad someone besides Ruger finally figured it out. As for the 90 round whatever mag, guy, you hit the lottery on that one.

Many of the MWG 90 round snail drums have proven to be reliable.
http://www.mwgco.com/ar-15_accessories/category/90_Rounder.html

[Groo]

Groo here
Is the gun SS?
If so, a Mini needs to get HOT to seat in.[like the SS rings in a truck engine]
Mine jammed a lot with mill spec , so I shot 125 rds out of it as fast as I could[burned myself on the barrel plate at the end pf the handguard]
Let it cool,cleaned and lubed, no problems since.
Shot a rifle course at Thunder Ranch a few years later [1000rds] the only jams were the ones we caused on purpose.

[mikej]

First, thanks for all the replies. One mag is new, the other isn't, i tried both. It is a stainless gun. They are reloads, but well tested on my buddies new AR. I'll try some factory rounds anyway. I do have a wooden stock and yes, the action moves clean when magazine is removed, but does not work with a loaded magazine. Funny, i just tried cycling it unloaded, and it worked fine (sticks a hair in the forward position). Then i cycled it with an unloaded new ruger magazine and it stuck. Wont open all the way with it in, and wont close well with it in either.

[Artful]

Are you running it lubed or dry - do you see any Galling on any of the parts?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/TechArticles/DSCF1491.jpg

Look at the wooden stock
- the Mini-14 is designed like the Garand and should be released at the trigger guard for storage, to take the pressure off the wood so it doesn't compress and cause operating problems.
- does it look like it sunken in a few thou?
If so put a few card stock shims between the stock and trigger assembly and reassemble and see if that clears up the problem.
or
Try taking the action out of the stock and reassembling without the stock and moving the bolt with and without magazine in place. (Oh, and mind your fingers when doing so.)

And while we all think our reloads should work in every rifle, it's a matter of fitment. I reloaded a thousand, worked fine in my Mini-14 but wouldn't work in my CAR15 - that's life.

[W.R.Buchanan]

MikeJ: what you describe is exactly what I am talking about in post #9. If you can find a mag that works right the you can adjust the locking lug to match that.

If none of them work right then the problem is probably the latch itself having the top edge too tall. You could fix this yourself filing the top edge down,,, but putting the latch back in is a real BEAR,,, I almost cried and it literally took 3 hands to get it reinstalled.

IF this is the case I would recommend sending it back to Ruger with a detailed description of the problem.

Hope this helps.

Once you get this teething problem fixed you will see what a great gun the Mini 14 actually is. They are very reliable and if you run out of ammo they make a much better club than an AR does..

Randy

[mikej]

So i think i have a few minor issues going on simultaneously. Buchanan, Can you supply a picture with the area that needs to be filed, so i do not take away something vital by accident? I bought some factory rounds today and found they are about 1 to 1.5 thousanths narrower at the base than my reloads, even though they are both within range for a standard .223 round, that is problem #1. My rounds will score a bit at the base, causing part of the jam. Artful, It does look like the trigger guard assembly has sank a bit and i can see that the magazines are resting too high in the action and causing some binding on the bolt. Im not sure if the problem is needing to shim it, or that the mag its self is just a little long. Yesterday as i took out the two screws on the side of the stock and tried again, it seemed to cycle better without them, so that tells me there's something going on with the fit. They arent the factory screws and i may need to file a hair off them. I'll try shimming the said plate in front of the trigger guard that looks recessed a little and go test fire it in a couple days. And if i can get a pic from you Buchanan, I think between all of these, i'll get her going.

[Artful]

Rear magazine catches on tilt in magazines (M14, Mini-14, AK's) all work the same
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-yp39j5/tjr6no7/product_images/uploaded_images/fitting-guide-m77-2.jpg?t=1431623388

You can either file the bottom of lug on the back of the magazine
the part that engages the latch or you can file the top of the latch.
Where it's pointing in #3 in the pictures above.

But before I did either of those I'd make sure the rifle is latched
correctly in the stock (ie no looseness due to wood shrinkage)
which is why I suggested you try (with dummy round) assembly of the rifle without the stock and see how it functions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kgnh4neVaY

[mikej]

just to be clear, the magazine does latch in to place nicely with the bolt open, it just sits a bit high with it closed and comes into contact with the bolt, making it harder to latch when the bolt is closed (with or without ammunition)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike: here's pic of an unmodified 10 round mag (left) and one I had to fix. (Right) The one on the right was about .020 lower than the other. Filing the lug back was the fix for this one.

My 20 round mags all have the latching lug stamped into the rear of the mag,,, They all work perfectly.

If all your mags do the same thing you measure from the top edge of the rear of the mag to the bottom of the latch lug and compare the measurements. If they are all close then the other problem might be the trigger assembly being too high in the stock. This would allow the magazine to sit higher in the stock and thus cause the problem.

Art described this well.

My Garand has several shims under the trigger assy.

Since your gun is a 181 series (older with a wooden stock) it may have shrank a little causing this problem.

If you pop the trigger guard out of it's locked position and it has no tension on it then that's your problem.

Randy

[lavenatti]

If it sticks shut you may need to clean up around the gas block and the hole in the front of the slide handle that fits over it. I have a mini-30 that cycled poorly and would stick shut. That turned out to be the problem. You won't realize how much crud sticks there until you start cleaning it. Took me about an hour with a scraper and about a hundred q-tips to get it clean. Worked like a charm afterwards.

[mikej]

Ok, after more cleaning of the gas block and adding about 1/16th or so of epoxy, the gun will fire once from each magazine (both new and old mag do the same thing) chamber the 2nd round, but will not fire the 2nd round. I check to make sure it is fully chambered and bolt is closed and it appears to be, but it won't fire more than 1 at a time. If i eject that round and cycle it again, the next round will fire, but still only one at a time. I am getting some scoring on the topside of the brass, so i could still be getting some binding because of the stock. I also wonder if the fire that it was in weakened the spring enough so it wouldn't cycle the bolt far enough back to allow it to fire. I'll take it apart again and clean it again, but leaning toward the stock and possibly the mainspring. Does that many any sense?

[376Steyr]

"I also wonder if the fire that it was in weakened the spring enough so it wouldn't cycle the bolt far enough back to allow it to fire."
!?!?!?!:shock:

[mikej]

oh, did I not mention that the gun was in a small fire? It was enough to singe the stock, but that looked like about it, I know it could have weakened other items as well, so im going through it trying to figure out whats next.

[mikej]

I just put in an order for a new stock and recoil spring. we'll see how that does.

[Artful]

A) if it got hot enough to change the spring steel it got hot enough to affect the receiver and other metal parts. - Dangerous !

B) When you say "Singe" the wood - what exactly does that mean - Picture of stock please.

C) If metal was heated enough to affect temper it could also cause warpage.

D) if one spring was affected - chances are they all were affected!

Please have this firearm checked by a Gunsmith ASAP and before you fire it again!

[mikej]

I know it sounds bad, but it was pretty minor. There was no deep burn into the wood, just enough to surface blacken a couple areas. Agreed that the heat could have changed anything, but realistically, other than a little singed wood, it probably didn't get any hotter than a hard day at the firing range. Ive put about 30 rounds through it since the incident and not concerned about its dangerousness, just about its ability to fire properly at this point, though I realize the two can be related. If the stock and spring do not solve the issue, i'm sending it off to ruger, unless someone thinks they might have a solution.

[abunaitoo]

When you cleaned the gas block, did you take the piston out????
I had a Mini 14 a long time ago and remembered that the piston sometimes get gummed up.
When it happened it would fire once. The next round wouldn't chamber all the way.
piston hole was kind of a pain to clean out.
I was tempted to remove the block from the barrel, but never did.
Once cleaned, and the piston was smooth and free moving, everything was fine.

[higgins]

Before you change something else, check to see if the magazine latches have been altered. If the action operates smoothly without the mags in place, it's the mags and not the rifle (unless the mag latches have been altered).

Are you sure they're Ruger mags? If they don't have the proper markings and specs, they could be aftermarket mags altered to look like Ruger. I don't know what the markings might be, or what the specs are, but I would sure find out before I tinkered with the gun, went to the expense to return it to Ruger unnecessarily, or bought more dies.

I have to disagree about nothing but Ruger mags working. I had a Mini-14 that would function properly with any unmarked, cheap aftermarket mag I tried in it. I had several of them that I got for cheap after the AWB expired. To further complicate matters, I tested them with a variety of factory and handloaded ammo without a single malfunction.

[mikej]

one mag i bought new, one came with the rifle. The one i bought was certainly a ruger. I know some other brands can work just fine. From my experience with rugers, they seem to be the most reliable even though some others, like promag are widely liked too. I installed the spring and new archangel stock. I just need a few free minutes to go run up my hill and shoot the darn thing. Unfortunately, a few minutes can be hard to find around here. I have to finish sighting in and loading for another rifle this week, so i'll hopefully get up there soon, otherwise i wont be shooting any elk in the near future.

[mikej]

When you cleaned the gas block, did you take the piston out????
I had a Mini 14 a long time ago and remembered that the piston sometimes get gummed up.
When it happened it would fire once. The next round wouldn't chamber all the way.
piston hole was kind of a pain to clean out.
I was tempted to remove the block from the barrel, but never did.
Once cleaned, and the piston was smooth and free moving, everything was fine.

That sounds exactly like what I'm having trouble with. I've cleaned out the gun multiple times, but I'll check the piston again. I put the new stock and recoilspring in with no change to the problem. Well, it's not jamming against the mag like it was before, but still won't fire more than one at a time and not fully cycle the bolt. It looks like it does, and feeds the next round, but won't fire it. So it's a little better but not solved.

[Geezer in NH]

Send it to Ruger

I agree, they will fix it

[brassrat]

I agree, they will fix it

:smile: I said that because my used one had the bolt come loose and flop around, after a shot. I never found what happened, but its been fine since.