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Thompsoncustom
06-07-2015, 08:46 AM
I was wondering yesterday if anyone has tried to cast/modify a lead hollow point bullet to act like the Lehigh defense maximum expansion rounds. Now I don't have any of these bullets to cut them in half and check them out but they look like a normal all copper hollow point with 4 cuts to make the pedals and then they just use velocity to control the expansion.


Why couldn't you do the same thing with lead and match the lead alloy to the velocity needed. Here's a picture I stole from google showing the cutting and point.

141553

gray wolf
06-07-2015, 11:40 AM
Very good chance you would loose the petals.

I have found that with the correct speed, and the proper alloy,
expansion can be achieved beyond the expected levels.141562141563

RobS
06-07-2015, 11:43 AM
I have found that with the correct speed, and the proper alloy,
expansion can be achieved beyond the expected levels.

That will do.

jonp
06-07-2015, 11:45 AM
I'm thinking that with that depth of cut the petals would break off. This might not be all that bad as the expansion combined with the base would leave a large wound channel but it would probably destroy the meat and you would have random pieces of lead to contend with. Not small shot like in a shotshell but potentially razor sharp pieces.

Mk42gunner
06-07-2015, 12:57 PM
Look up split point bullets. It wouldn't be four cuts, only two. Created by inserting a piece of paper or aluminum foil in the mold.

Robert

jhalcott
06-08-2015, 12:13 AM
I do NOT believe max expansion bullets are for GAME animals, but for varmints. I have used the foil/paper split nose cast bullets for groundhogs. High velocity makes them HBombs in most calibers from .22 cf thru the 45-70. A coworker used a 458 Magnum loaded with a pointy split nose on a deer in Pennsylvania ONCE! He said , and his son agreed, that he got 3 separate exit wounds on a 120 pound deer at less than 70 yards. I cast those 420 grain bullets from COWW and Hornady gas checked them.

jonp
06-08-2015, 07:25 AM
A 458mag on a 120lb deer at 70yrds may be a little excessive

I doubt any bullet or boolit will work properly with that combo

Thompsoncustom
06-08-2015, 08:23 AM
Ya I think with big bore calibers and heavy bullets it might work and if the petals break the base should still provide enough penetration

I was thinking of testing it out with a s&w 500 that way each petals still has a wide base (.240)ish at the widest point.

I'm thinking a really heavy but slow bullet is the way to go not only to control expansion but that way the petals can be wider or the bass can have more mass.

fredj338
06-08-2015, 03:08 PM
It doesn't have to be more complicated than nose design & alloy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/452-251.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/452-251.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/9mm-136-1200.jpg
(http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/9mm-136-1200.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/136hp-1050.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/45-215gr.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/136hp-1050.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/DSC_0041.jpg.html)

xacex
06-08-2015, 04:30 PM
Look up split point bullets. It wouldn't be four cuts, only two. Created by inserting a piece of paper or aluminum foil in the mold.

Robert

Not hard to do with a strip of tinfoil just under the hollow point pin. Does the same thing as you say with two petals instead of 4, but you still get 3 projectiles once it breaks apart. This can be beneficial for subsonic projectiles that do not have the capability to achieve full expansion upon impact. Very helpful for hunting where you would only create a single wound path with no hydrostatic shock from a supersonic boolit. In essence you gain three wound paths upon impact, increasing the knockdown potential of a subsonic boolit. This would be beneficial for something like a neck shot where by the time the boolits expand like what are being presented here it would have already exited out the other side without any expansion.

What many of you are missing when you talk about proper alloy, and expansion at say 1500 fps is what the OP presented are the Lehigh defense maximum expansion bullets designed for subsonic work, not 1500fps or above. A pistol boolit also has a wider meplat to cause tissue damage where a 30 cal going 1050FPS will do little damage, and will normally pencil through tissue without doing much damage to surrounding tissue no matter what alloy or H/P design it is. It is difficult to get a H/P in a cast boolit big enough to even expand properly at these speeds with the limitations of feeding in a semi auto rifle.

fredj338
06-08-2015, 08:41 PM
Yes, certainly more challenging with smaller dia bullets, but exp can still be controlled at subsonic vel with alloy & HP design. at least in 9mm & up.

Blackwater
06-08-2015, 11:23 PM
I once shot quite a lot of the Lee 357-150-SWCHP's back when I was still in college and for a long time afterward, until I loaned the mold to a buddy whose house burned, with the mold in it. Also had the Lee 452-190-SWCHP, but that one had an awfully small HP and didn't expand significantly even when the lead was too soft to hold the rifling well. That little .357 bullet, though, had a pretty big and deep HP, and WOULD expand quite nicely. Some testing in wet newsprint and other media and autopsies on game shot with it showed a marked increase in the bullet's effectiveness compared to its solid pointed counterpart. I had both, and the HP came out actually weighing @ 142 gr. lubed and ready to load. I shot a lot of them over a healthy dose of Unique - college kids with families have to economize, and the load did anything I ever reasonably asked of it. Didn't have a chrono then but it seemed from recoil to be approximately similar in "power" level to factory loaded 125's.

That little bullet taught me a good deal about HP's, and the first lesson was that alloy I cast with was very important in determining what kind (if any significant) expansion I'd get with it in actual use, and that the velocity level was the factor that determined what alloy to use. It was a pretty good education when combined with the actual tests I did in various media. One learns quickly that dry media, like simple stacks of dry newsprint of phone books or whatever, won't always reliably expand a HP, but wet ones almost always do - given the right velocity for the alloy, of course.

Another thing I learned was that straight WW's often let the petals break off to become secondary projectiles, while the shank usually expanded to something like half again the original caliber, and continued to penetrate, much akin to Nosler Partitions. Add some soft lead and a good dose of tin, though, and they'd hold together and expand beautifully. It really takes some experimenting to get a HP cast bullet to perform exactly as you want it to in YOUR guns with YOUR loads. The nice part is it's fun every step of the way, and gets very interesting as well. After all, if you're already going to spend the time shooting, why not really learn something from it?

country gent
06-08-2015, 11:32 PM
There is a process to cast soft noses on bullets. A ladle of measured size ( volumne to fill moulds nose to a point. A small pot is needed for pure lead. a bigger pot with the alloy in it. Preheat mould to temp and ladle pour mould with the small amount of pure lead then fill with the alloy you get a very soft nose with harder base dirving bands. Done right there is little to tell where one strats and other ends. A pure lead hollow point or a little past and ww base driving bands could be interesting concept. Ive recovered 20-1 paper patched 45 rifle bullets that expanded to .950+ dia and oly 1/4-3/8 of base still showed. These bullets were 1 3/8" long when cast. Its amazing what soft lead will do expansion wise.