Can It Be Lined?

[Good Cheer]

Looking to rehabilitate the .39" groove diameter barrel of an old rifle.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/9.5x52_zps862wwlwq.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/9.5x52_zps862wwlwq.jpg.html)

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/chamber%20casting_zpsx6wqnnnq.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/chamber%20casting_zpsx6wqnnnq.jpg.html)

If a reamer is made can a black powder paper patched rifle be relined?

[DCM]

"We can do almost anything if you draw the plans on the back of a big enough check"

More info would be very helpful and likely reduce the size of said check.
Caliber, rifle make ..., might be cheaper and safer to re-barrel???

[Good Cheer]

It is a one of a kind based upon a Mauser A base brass.
Probably liberated in 1945.
Saving the exterior of the tapered octagonal barrel is certainly to be desired.

[texassako]

I can see it being relined since it will be low pressure, if you could find a .39" groove liner or barrel to turn down could be found. I would think that would be a really big IF. How bad is it that it needs relining?

[Frank46]

What caliber is your rifle currently in?. That should give us a place to start. You have the die set in your pics. Frank

[Bzcraig]

"We can do almost anything if you draw the plans on the back of a big enough check"

Being a contractor people would ask if something was possible, and like you, my response was always, "anything is possible, it's just how big of a check you are willing to write."

[Good Cheer]

What caliber is your rifle currently in?. That should give us a place to start. You have the die set in your pics. Frank

9.6x52 would be a close approximation. The twist is right at 28". The dies were custom made by Huntington about thirty years ago. For a long time I shot the NEI 388-196 PB SWC with Unique. And Walt made me a plain base blunt round nose too. Shot the 375248 paper patched as well. Then once upon a time I decided to try some cartridge grade Pyrodex and not being familiar enough with Pyrodex didn't squeaky clean it good enough. The heart breaking pitting starting. So, here I am twenty plus years later and a liner is worth looking into.

[John Taylor]

closest liner size would be .379" (38-55) or .401 (38-40). A new barrel could be made, I have done a few half octagon with the integral rib.

[Frank46]

Next question, how big is the rim diameter and is the case head flat or mauser type a base?. just trying to figure out where to go with this. Bolt looks like something like a chassepot (french) styled bolt with the extractor sticking out from your pics. Interesting rifle. Frank

[FrankG]

It could be lined as John said and a reamer made by Manson or PTG from your fired case to rechamber .

[Good Cheer]

FrankG,
That's the direction I'm leaning in. Still trying to find bore and groove diameters that will work. The barrel has four rather deep grooves, lands and grooves of approximately equal width. Think I will take a look at it when I get home.
A .38-55 barrel with the grooves cut ridiculously deep might actually be pretty close.

There's only one guy I know that makes .38 bore barrels and he doesn't do cartridge guns (strictly muzzleloaders).

[Good Cheer]

closest liner size would be .379" (38-55) or .401 (38-40). A new barrel could be made, I have done a few half octagon with the integral rib.

I've seriously considered a .38-40 liner with .392 bore and a paper patched boolit. And, I'm afraid of being stuck with such a large bump up, the loaded cartridge using a .391" diameter.
I'm not give up yet on finding a barrel to suit.
I shall endeavor to persevere! :grin:

[FrankG]

What is ID of fired case now ?

[shooter93]

I don't know if you tried Douglas Barrels or not. Years ago they were very accommodating making us a barrel or two in odd sizes. I don't know if they still offer the service or not. As far as relining the existing barrel.....you will have to turn down a larger barrel of course and if you have enough existing diameter to satisfy the smith doing the work.....enough steel left around the barrel.....I would think it could be relined. I don't remember how much steel the guy who did my lining liked to have left of the old barrel.

[FrankG]

Heres an option for reline . There a .379 " groove liner . You change your expander ball on die set and maybe be close .

[LAGS]

I know it would be quite an expense.
But would it be possible to reline it to a smaller bore, then Re-Bore it to the caliber that it was originally, if it is the exterior of the barrel that holds the Value ?
At least that way it is Almost Original and you are saving a piece of art, as well as making it originally functional.
Like someone said earlier, Anything is possible for the right price.

[andremajic]

If you're having trouble finding a barrel liner, you could always find the correct groove/caliber length barrel taken off another gun.

Turn it down between centers until it's the right thickness, taking very light cuts so you don't warp the barrel, and use the turned down donor barrel as your liner.

Might be the least expensive option, but it would take time.

[Good Cheer]

Might work.

https://mcgowenbarrel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/395cal.png

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've seriously considered a .38-40 liner with .392 bore and a paper patched boolit. And, I'm afraid of being stuck with such a large bump up, the loaded cartridge using a .391" diameter.
I'm not give up yet on finding a barrel to suit.
I shall endeavor to persevere! :grin:

Here are the liners available from http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/1 , although I would buy them from Mike Sayers on sayersms@fuse.net (wlmailhtml:{88738A09-391F-41B8-A4E8-C6FC870CB95D}mid://00000117/!x-usc:mailto:sayersms@fuse.net) . He may do more types by now, or special work may be possible at a price.

The .38-40 liners do seems like a possibility, and the 16in. twist might give you better results with a rifle bullet than the rifling you have. I have never heard of this being done, but if the barrel were to be drilled from the muzzle with a really accurate piloted drill or reamer, and if a bushing were made to match the chamber, it might be possible to leave the original chamber, and ream only the neck as required, which is cheaper and probably faster to buy than a full chamber reamer. You don't lose anything by trying this, for if it turns out badly aligned, it just puts you back to doing a full-length liner.

It doesn't have to be a bushing lathe-turned to match the chamber. If you can ream a piece of tubing to land diameter, and align it with a greased brass rod which is a tight fit in busing and bore, you can embed it in place with epoxy filler and remove it all by heating afterwards. This is very much on the agenda for me in the UK, where a wide range of cartridge firearms are antique, subj ect to no legal controls, if made up to 1939 and still of the original chambering. They can hardly argue if it is the original chamber. It is also stronger in the area of the barrel threads, which might matter if these are the smallish threads of the 88 Commission rifle, and the case head is larger than those were designed for. The neck of your dies could also be enlarged with a carbide reamer and a bushing, but a short at the bottom should be fine if you are doing it from that end.

Those 38-40 liners are available up to 7/8in. diameter. I dare say they are bought by people who don't want to line a thing, since that diameter is confined to SAA Colt calibres. Barrel diameters can be deceptive in a picture, but one possibility would be to line only from about where the rear sight is, and have the "liner" forming the outside of the barrel, reduced to octagonal, forward of that point. The sight and a sling swivel could be used to make the joint less conspicuous. Some people who sleeve new barrels into shotguns, amputated to serve like the European monobloc construction, now make the joint completely invisible with laser welding. A foot or so of a really good soldered liner joint would surely stand the longitudinal forces involved. Chris Ashford, who invented shotgun sleeving in the 1950s, used to keep a gun with the sleeves only hand-tight in the remains of the old barrel, and firing didn't spit them out.

I would be reluctant to line this rifle for an American or British cartridge. But there was a bewilderingly large variety of German cartridges from 8 to 9.3mm. which would be in keeping with its history, and for which bore liners in .32-40, 9mm. etc. would be fine.

My Gibbs-Metford-Westley Richards probably spent a century leaning on the wall of a damp shed in India, waiting for the sahibs to come back. It had a beautifully bright gain twist bore with a deep gully all the way down, gouged by a perpetual trickle of condensation. I don't suppose yours is anthing like that, and sometimes a very small depth of pitting can serve to make a barrel look dreadful. It might be worth consulting someone who rebores barrels, for it could be that it could be restored by removing a rather tiny amount of metal from lands and grooves. Or grooves and lands, but one after the other anyway. I doubt if you could keep using that mould (Got to buy another rifle for it!), but quite possibly you would get by with your existing dies.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Here is a thread I posted recently, about a disappointing experience. I bought some necklace ends from China on eBay, described as copper plated alloy, but that is only true if you count steel as an alloy of iron and carbon. No way am I going to shoot them through any good barrel of mine. But they might burnish out light pitting, and if the choice is between the pitting and relining, what do you have to lose by trying? They are about .389 OD, which is so close to your case that we might almost believe some Higher Power had a bit of time for petty problems.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?281060-Something-of-a-disappointment-but

Here is the Lothar Walther website for barrel blanks, including European sizes. They don't offer anything better than American barrelmakers for restoring your rifle to its original state. But they do extend the possibilities of changing to a smaller caliber for which this rifle most likely used to be chambered just as often.

http://www.lothar-walther.com/377.php

[JMtoolman]

Why don't you cast a lap in the barrel, and inlet a cutter, take a few thousands of metal off of each land and groove. Then open up the neck the same amount. And you should be good to go. I think that is what I would do. You would have to lap out the neck of the dies, but it shouldn't be much of a problem.

The toolman.