Seating Boolits deeper to reach crimp groove.

[MediumCore358]

Hey everyone. Loading up some .357 mag using Lee products and load book. Give me some ideas if Im still safe for shootin'. Lee 158 gr. LSWC, using starting grains of 8.1 ACCUR #5. Based on the load date Min OAL is 1.590, I'm having to seat to 1.542+ just to get into the crimp groove. I'm sure trimming my cases down had a bit to do with that, but otherwise do you think it's safe to shoot?

[DougGuy]

.045" is a LOT of variation from published Min. OAL. If that is a max load (at Min OAL) then you would likely be beyond pressures given in the load data. How far beyond? Considering a 9mm can destroy a pistol from boolit setback when it's only .010" I wouldn't stray that far from published data.

[MediumCore358]

8.1 grains is the starting load and 9.0 is the never exceed. I find it odd using Lee load data with Lee bullet molds that there is such a variant in min OAL, even using their mold. I agree that it is quite short, waiting for others to chime in...

[Bzcraig]

If you are using the tumble lube boolit, are you trying to crimp in the top lube groove? If so, crimp in a lower groove closer to oal in data. If you are using the traditional, gas checked design, crimp in the top lube groove instead of the crimp groove. I'm assuming you are looking in Lee Modern Reloading for data as I noticed the same oal that you mention. Those loads don't specify the particular boolit used, just the weight, so you can't assume it was a Lee boolit the load was designed for. As DougGuy alluded to, reducing the oal that much is not safe. The Lee book is a compilation of data from many sources so it is good to have at least a second reference to compare with like the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition.

[MediumCore358]

I'm using a traditional LSWC from a Lee mold. Top crimp is right in the proper range for .38 spec., might have to get a tumble lube mold in the same weight just to avoid this in the future.

[C.F.Plinker]

The Lee book has a lot of data in it. None of it is theirs. They reprint data from the powder manufacturers and list it from highest velocity to lowest for a given bullet weight. This means that there will be data for 158 grain semi-wadcutters mixed with data for 158 grain round nose bullets. The test barrel lengths could vary from 4-6 inches all the way up to 10 inches.

The Accurate website indicates that they used an Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullet for their test but does not give the overall length they loaded to. E-mail is your friend. Can you e-mail Oregon Trail Accurate and ask them about their loads and overall lengths? Also ask Oregon Trail what the distance from the crimp groove to the base of the bullet is. Then compare it with your boolits.

You said that you trimmed your brass. Did you trim to 1.280 inches?

[runfiverun]

LEE doesn't provide load data for their boolits they provide data other publish with other boolits and bullets.
which ones do they publish? dunno.
but I reference the LEE book first, so I can find that data is available.
then I look in my other manuals to find the actual recipe used [you know case, primer, bullet] and go from there.

oal is not what I worry about so much the nose shapes vary amongst bullets, and boolits too much to get too wrapped up with that.
what you want to know is actual useable case space, so you have to find a boolit/bullet that takes up about the same amount of room [drive band length inside the case] and is close in weight and make-up [jacket thickness/cast] and use that data to get started.

[mdi]

FWIW, For my revolvers I have been seating all bullets to the crimp groove for mebbe 30 years and pay little attention to book OAL. I figger the bullet designers have taken into consideration the location of the crimp groove/cannalure and the amount of case capacity. I would suggest another manual, perhaps the Lyman 49th, and mebbe the Hornady manual. I liked the "how to" section of my Lee Modern Reloading, but found the load data to be lacking...

[gray wolf]

oal is not what I worry about so much the nose shapes vary amongst bullets, and boolits too much to get too wrapped up with that.
what you want to know is actual useable case space, so you have to find a boolit/bullet that takes up about the same amount of room [drive band length inside the case] and is close in weight and make-up [jacket thickness/cast] and use that data to get started.

Agree 100% it's the amount of bullet in the case, not so much the OAL.

If a bullet has a short nose you will never reach the published OAL data.

[MediumCore358]

Thanks for all the info. I think I'll just pull the bullets from the few I made and get another data book or two. I'm sure they'd be fine but rather be safe.

[trixter]

Any time you are loading cast boolits, use this as your #1 source; Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition.

[MediumCore358]

Totally will pick up the Lyman cast bullet handbook 4 next order that I place!

[mdi]

Lyman's 4th Edition Cast bullet Handbook is an excellent source of info, but, if you can find a third edition try it. I believe it's better for entry level/new casters...

[44man]

My take is you work loads for every different boolit so crimp where the groove is and work the load.
In 61 years or more of loading I have never, ever looked at OAL figures.
Since no two boolits/bullets are the same why would you even look at that stuff?

[Maximumbob54]

This is why I didn't know I needed a chronometer. Start at the low end of the load data, seat to the chrimp, measure the velocity given, and work them up. Sometimes you will find that velocity starts to peak before you run out of load data. It's not often but it happens. And don't think because you still have room left in the load data that you are lucky and can exceed the velocity listings. This is where the pressure generated by the powder in the given amount of room in the case and the chamber dimensions and a dozen other things all add together to give you that velocity.

[MediumCore358]

Great info everyone! Making a list and checking it twice haha: Lyman casting book, 2 more Lee molds 125rn and maybe the 105 OR 158 TL IN .357(9), New lead pot...etc...etc! On the hunt for free lead got the word out. Did any of you see the guy cutting the lead sailboat keil with a chainsaw on YouTube? Just type in cutting lead with chainsaw. Not sure how to link just yet.

P.s. I shot the bullet I was concerned about but in the .38 configuration crimped in the proper location( shot nice and mild! Saved data)..pulled them on the .357 but I'm gonna load them again tonight a bit below the starting grains and crimped in the proper location. Thanks again.