Winchester 32 Self Loader

[Battis]

I cast .321 150 gr bullets for my 1905 32 WSL (bore-.320), using 32-20 brass (no extractor groove) and 32 SL dies. I expanded the case mouth slightly. With 11.6 gr IMR4227 (slight crimp), each round loaded, fired and ejected perfectly. Accuracy was good for me.
But, the 32-20 cleaned brass would not size down at the neck. The cast bullets dropped right in.
I Beagled the mold, first with one side taped, then both - with both sides taped, the bullets measured .324-.325. Even at that, I could finger press the bullets into the cases. With a slight crimp, those bullets all loaded, fired and ejected perfectly. Accuracy was the same.

I fired off 2 original rounds (162 gr jacketed bullet, cases have an extractor groove). The original cleaned brass sized down perfectly (the brass is thicker than the new 32-20).

Then, I bought a used 32-20 sizing die, sized the cleaned fired brass back to 32-20, then sized in the 32 WSL dies, expanded the mouth to take the .321 bullet and I'm back to where I was.
I have not made a cast of the chamber. The bore is near mint - I don't think it was ever fired much. I did not anneal the brass.

Considering the age of this rifle, is it better to...
Keep sizing down to 32-20, then up to .32 WSL or use the larger diameter Beagled bullet?

[Mk42gunner]

Is it possible that some thicker necked brass that is readily available would work better, such as .30 Carbine or shortened .223? I don't know how the rimless cases would work with the boltface though. According to Cartridges of the World, 8th ed. the dimensions are close.

Robert

[Digital Dan]

I would opine that your problem stems from incompatible dimensions betwixt size die and neck wall thickness. My suggestion is to have a custom die made for neck sizing or find one that will substitute from a similar cartridge -OR- find brass with the proper neck wall thickness. See the link that follows and contact BACO for their best guess on availability date.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/32_WSL_Reloading_Brass_it-157050.aspx?CAT=3841

[Battis]

I tried the .30 carbine but the rim is too small to extract. The .223 does look closer - I'll cut one down and try it.
I'm pretty sure Buffalo Arms forms the brass from 32-20 ("These cases are re-formed from a more readily available caliber therefore they have the parent case headstamp.")


I'm thinking that a larger Beagled bullet might build too much pressure for this old rifle, while sizing the brass in 2 different dies will work the brass more and maybe cause other problems.

[Battis]

I couldn't size the .223 all the way down (the case made it 2/3 of the way into the die). The mouth sized to the correct diameter, the dummy round fit the mag but it was too wide to chamber. It did eject perfectly.

[Wayne Smith]

Give Dave a call at CH4D. He may have the appropriate dies on the shelf. If not he will make them.

[texassako]

Sounds like the 32-20 die is acting as a neck sizer to the extreme and then the .32 WSL die is sizing the rest of the case and expanding the neck back to .32. Are you expanding separately or is there an expander button in the .32 WSL FL die? Does the 32-20 brass touch the expander? If so, it could be expanding to much. I would also try annealing a piece to see if spring back is messing you up in combination with the thinner brass if you have not already. If you have one available, a .30 Carbine FL die might do the trick of getting the case mouth just small enough instead of to small and expanding back up.

[Battis]

There isn't an expander in the 32-20 or 32SL dies. I've tried the 32SL expander die, the 32-20 expander die and the Lee Universal die - all work basically the same from what I can see. When I run the new, unfired 32-20 brass through the 32SL die, there is little change or resistance. I expand that case mouth slightly to accept the .321 bullet, and it works fine. It's the fired brass that won't size down in the 32SL die but it does in the 32-20 die. So, I size the fired brass in the 32SL die, then neck size it in the 32-20 die (I can size the neck a little or a lot). Seems like I'm working this brass pretty hard, but I'm thinking that the thicker Beagled bullets work the old rifle harder.
The brass from the original rounds is thicker and sizes correctly in the 32SL die. I'll try annealing some of the fired 32-20 - like you said, it's thin brass and probably is springing back.

[DrDucati]

Hate to bother some with an old thread. On the other hand, this story never saw the final chapter. Did the OP find success with any of the attempted methods?

[Battis]

This is what I do and it works:
I run the new 32-20 brass through the 32 SL die, then expand the case mouth slightly.
I size and de-prime the fired 32-20 brass in a 32 SL die, then neck size in a 32-20 die, then expand the case mouth slightly.
The case is crimped slightly to hold bullet in place (forward, backward movement). The bullet will spin, but it does not pull loose or fall into the case.
I use 11.5 grs of IMR 4227, which keeps the bullet from pushing in, and gives enough power to work the bolt. I don't cut extractor grooves for any of my WSLs, and they work fine (.32, .35, .351, .401)
I'm sure there's a better way to load the 32 WSL but I gotta say, this method works very well.

I haven't loaded any of these in awhile and I'm thinking that maybe I shouldn't expand the case mouth so much or not at all. Time for a revisit.

[DrDucati]

I have all except the 1905 in .35.

And why is the neck sizing step with 32-20 needed for fired brass? Due to the brass being thinner than factory wsl?

Interestingly, the Guide to Cartridge Conversions doesn't even list, mention, or diagram an extractor groove for the 32wsl.

And how did your annealing trial go?

[Battis]

I did not try annealing the brass. I probably should. My problem is that I only took it to the point where it works (and works well) but I never tried improving it. Also, the .32 WSL came with about 75 factory rounds, so the last few times that I fired the gun I used that vintage ammo.
I read that the .32 WSL is the most useless caliber ever invented - too big for small game, too small for big game. But, I don't hunt and the .32 is a great shooter.

[DrDucati]

Yeah, I no longer pay attention to negative "press" regarding old cartridges. There is hardly a one that isn't decried as being "underpowered" or inadequate in some way. E.g. 30-30, 30 carbine, 351 wsl, etc all have been dumped on over the years (Paul Harrell has a couple nice YouTube vids on the first two). When you read accounts from people that actually shoot them and test them for intended use most of the negative comments turn out to be a load of hooey. This includes articles by so called "experts."

[DrDucati]

Just discovered 32 wsl ammo from Reeds Ammunition & Research. From Ventura Munitions, 351 wsl and 401 wsl. I normally would not purchase ammo, especially this being as it is costly but I like accumulating the brass for reloading. BTW, took 1905 and 1910 out for the first time today and ran a couple mags rounds though them. My that was fun!

[fi2ld]

These posts are a bit old but I'm sure the quest for brass goes on for this fun to shoot rifle. As already mentioned the 32-20 works but does have it's shortcomings. I have had good luck using PPU 7.62 Nagant pistol brass to make 32 WSL cases. Once the case is expanded using a .32 expander ball and trimmed to the correct length, (I make mine a bit long until the first firing), the case wall thickness is very near the same as the 32 WSL. There is no need to change the rim diameter or thickness but I do like to cut the extractor groove diameter to about .330, it seems to work better. I am always on the look out for Boxer primed 7.62 cases at the gun shows for this purpose. (Look closely because there are many Berdan primed cases and they are much more difficult to reload.)