playing with the 35 whelen

[jms1911]

Been playing with the 35 whelen lately and thought I would share my findings. Back in the late 80s I bought a rem.700 classic when they came out because I've always liked 35s. I played with it using 200 and 225 jacketed bullets but always wanted a heavier bullet. Years ago a friend gave me a box of cast Lyman 358009s but I couldn't get them to shoot good. I thought it might be the 16 inch twist (no key-holing). I always wanted a NEI 358286 mold but thought it wouldn't stabilize. last winter I was in a gun shop and right in front of my eyes was a used single cavity NEI 358286 with dd ring and RCBS handles in mint shape for $32! I thought if my classic won't stabilize them I have another 700 in 30-06 that can get a barrel with a faster twist. Not to worry though as my classic shoots them just fine. So far have tried 4198,3031,4895,and 4320. The best load to date is 43 grn. 3031 for average vel. of 2050 fps. Today it put 3 rds. in an inch at 100 yrds. 45 grns. of 4320 is about the same speed but not near the accuracy. 43 grns. of 4895 gave same speed but vertical stringing. Anyone have experiance with this bullet or load? Thanks for letting me ramble on. John

[smoked turkey]

Good Evening John. I agree that the 35 Whelen is a great cartridge to play around with. I have done a lot with my Ruger M77 lately. I found that my 16" twist shot my 3589 boolit (295 gr) cast from 50/50 ww/lead mix good enough to shoot two Whitetails last deer season and a Canadian black bear about three weeks ago. The load I settled on is 45 gr of H4350 EXT. You will have to tweak the OAL depending on your throat/leade length on your Remington. I also believe I got a slight improvement in accuracy by an additional overall application of Ben's LL to my already sized (.360) and lubed boolits. I only mention this in case you have some more 3589 boolits you can use up. Mind you I didn't get "minute of angle" accuracy but plenty good enough for my shooting from 60 to 125 yards on the animals I shot. Good shooting to you and enjoy that wonderful old cartridge.

[35 shooter]

I shoot the 358009 sized to .360 (boolits weigh 286 gr.) in my 1/14 twist whelen. 54 gr. of imr4350 gets a bit over 2200 fps. Groups run from just under 1 inch to 1 1/2" for 5 shots @ 100yds. I started at 48 gr.(another good load) for 1950 fps. and worked up from there.
Might work for your NEI or your 358009.

[Yodogsandman]

I have the NEI 358 282 GC that drops boolits at 301gr. I shoot them from a 1 in 12 twist barrel, though. Looks like you've done a lot more testing than I have and with better results.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I too shoot the Lyman 358009l in my 35 Whelan with a 1:12, using 48 grains of 3031 and get 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards. The rifle is a Winchester 1917 that is unaltered except for the rebore. No scope...standard military original sight but it is cranked up to 900 yard setting. Recoil is moderate-tolerable. I size to .358 and use gas checks. Don't have a chrony so don't know the mv but don't worry about it as I am satisfied with the grouping. LLS

[jms1911]

I forgot to mention I am casting with linotype and sizing .359. I might try .360 also. I think with my barrel twist this bullet would like going faster rather than slower. My Rem. has a long throat so have plenty of room. Once I get the powder type and load I will play with OAL. Anyone tried ball powder BLC2, H335,etc. with this round? Never killed any game with this cartridge but living in Montana should not be an issue. Yes I have a limited amount of the 358009s and will try them again. I will try 4350 also. I am starting low and working my way up with a chonograph. Goal is 2000 to 2200 fps. The Whelen with that long neck just begs for big bullets. Gotta love it!

[jms1911]

That must be a compressed load. The Lyman book I have goes up to 46 grains of 3031. So far my rifle seems to like that powder. How long of barrel do you have? I bet recoil is pretty stout. John

[Yodogsandman]

So, What grainage is your boolit? I did a search and found that the NEI 358286 was possibly designed by Ed Harris and would drop with a 360-361" base with a 351-352" nose at about 295gr. Basically looks like a 358009 with a RNFP. Is this correct?

[jms1911]

So, What grainage is your boolit? I did a search and found that the NEI 358286 was possibly designed by Ed Harris and would drop with a 360-361" base with a 351-352" nose at about 295gr. Basically looks like a 358009 with a RNFP. Is this correct?
Cast from linotype they drop around 290 grains with the diamentions you stated. Mine has the DD ring on the nose which is a option. I think it really helps with the accuracy. I tried a softer mix but did not get the accuracy. I think they shoot much better with linotype. I am seating to 3.150 inch. which looks like your picture. Who is ed harris, not familiar with the name. Has any one used Gator gas checks? I have been using Hornady and once in a while one will fall off.

[Yodogsandman]

Over 1800-1900 FPS you need a harder alloy to hold onto the rifling without skidding. A softer alloy like COWW's will work too if you either water drop from the mold or oven heat treat them to a harder BHN. That's why the linotype (22 BHN) works better for you.

I also use Hornady gas checks, they fit as tight as any and crimp on. You might want to try a thicker GC or lap your GC shank out a little bigger. I don't know if Gator gas checks have different thickness sizes but, I believe that Sage Outdoors has the thicker aluminum ones. Some guys just use a drop of super glue.

[35 shooter]

Yodog is spot on, you will probably have to water drop or heat treat at speeds over 1800 fps. for the whelen to get best accuracy. I ht @ 465* for 1 hour and then drop in water with straight ww for a bhn of 27.

Sage Outdoors has .010" hard checks for 35 cal. that work great for me. They size on tight even at .360".

[USSRSNPR]

Great info guys! I'm just getting started loading cast bullets in my 35. I got my rifle from my dad it is a Mauser that was in .30-06 when he used it for hunting and since I already had one I had it re-barreled again. Purchased a Mountain Molds 290 grain bore rider, will start playing with loads and hopefully realize the potential of this round.

[Shuz]

jms1911--C.E.(Ed) Harris is a noted authority on shooting in general, and cast boolits in particular. He used to be employed by the NRA and published many articles in "The American Rifleman" down thru the years. I believe he is now retired, but he still shoots a lot and contributes to the "Fouling Shot" magazine as published by The Cast Bullet Association. He is also the originator/inventor of a wonderful bore solvent known as "Ed's Red". Hope this helps.

[jms1911]

The last time I cast I dropped half in water and half air cool. The ones I tried were air cooled. I will try the water cooled next. Should I heat treat linotype? Thanks for the info on Ed Harris. I know I must have read some of his articles. The Hornady gas checks go on really tight but had one come off and hit one of my skyscreens on chronograph. Thanks for all the great replies.John

[Shuz]

In my experience, linotype does NOT increase hardness by heat treating. Lots of folks like it because it casts like a dream due to it's high tin content, and it tests Bhn 22 as air cooled.

[Yodogsandman]

The last time I cast I dropped half in water and half air cool. The ones I tried were air cooled. I will try the water cooled next. Should I heat treat linotype? Thanks for the info on Ed Harris. I know I must have read some of his articles. The Hornady gas checks go on really tight but had one come off and hit one of my skyscreens on chronograph. Thanks for all the great replies.John

That Hornady gas check that came off must have been a one time fluke.

When trying those water quenched boolits, try some of the slower powders to increase your velocity and to better fill the case for more consistency. Ball powders like H414/W760 will have lower pressures. The 4350 shows a lot of promise with mine, like 35 shooter and the other members here. IMR 4064 looks good, too. At the higher velocities, slower powders will give the boolit a gentler shove out of the case and into the bore for less distortion.

Linotype might be too brittle for hunting applications at higher velocities. Better to heat treat a tougher and more malleable alloy like COWW's with some tin (Sn) added for better expansion on game. COWW's and 2% Sn oven heat treated @ 465*F and quenched in ice water gets me about 30 BHN. A 50/50 mix of that and pure lead, then oven heat treated gives me about 24 BHN.

[jms1911]

That Hornady gas check that came off must have been a one time fluke.

When trying those water quenched boolits, try some of the slower powders to increase your velocity and to better fill the case for more consistency. Ball powders like H414/W760 will have lower pressures. The 4350 shows a lot of promise with mine, like 35 shooter and the other members here. IMR 4064 looks good, too. At the higher velocities, slower powders will give the boolit a gentler shove out of the case and into the bore for less distortion.

Linotype might be too brittle for hunting applications at higher velocities. Better to heat treat a tougher and more malleable alloy like COWW's with some tin (Sn) added for better expansion on game. COWW's and 2% Sn oven heat treated @ 465*F and quenched in ice water gets me about 30 BHN. A 50/50 mix of that and pure lead, then oven heat treated gives me about 24 BHN.
Sounds good. Next casting session I will give it a try. What rifle and twist are you shooting thoughs NEIs from?

[Yodogsandman]

A Mauser 98 VZ-24, 22" Douglas, 1 in 12 twist. I want to point out that I just use a $5 yard sale convection toaster oven with a hanging oven thermometer to heat treat and a 5 gal bucket to quench. Not too high tech.

I used starting loads of 48.0gr IMR4064 and 50.0gr IMR4350, then working up from there.

[TXGunNut]

I'm shooting a bit lighter boolit in my 35 Whelens using a 50/50 alloy and agree that the 35 W seems to like HT with velocities above plinker loads. OTOH a 200 or 230 gr .360 boolit @ "plinker" velocities will do all the killing I need to do here in TX...except for mebbe a really big hog. :lol: I don't why the 35W likes a tougher boolit but I like to go fast with this cartridge and a high BHN seems to be the price of admission to get past 2000fps.