A Thread on reloading the little compact .380's with cast

[Blackwater]

I'm STILL engaged in trying to get my new reloading room set up, so I haven't been able to do any reloading for a while, and won't until I get it set up right. But one of the things that will be my first priorities when I git-r-done, is working up loads for my little Taurus TP M-738. I have the Ranch Dog 100 gr. RNFP (mostly FP) and I plan to get one of the relatively new 95 gr. Lee 6-cavs in RNFP. I've come to really LIKE this little gun. It has a pretty controllable trigger, is very accurate and reliable, and best of all, it shoots to the sights. Here in SE Ga., where T-shirt weather is common, it's pretty hard to carry anything bigger comfortably and all the time, and in most situations, the priority is to just HAVE a gun of whatever type you CAN carry 100% of the time.

With bad guys coming in all shapes and sizes, including the extra large "gorilla" type, I'm anticipating casting hard for sufficient penetration no matter what size they may come in, and I really like the FP's for their ability to poke larger holes in rattlesnakes' heads. I killed 4 this past year, and highly suspect the episode with them is not over. I don't kill them unless they're close to homes, but the population seems to have increased, for whatever reasons, and I take them out when they're close to kids at play, etc. where people often might not notice them until it's too late. Snakebite is ALWAYS serious, even if they don't kill you, and will almost surely cause on-going problems for years after a bite.

I'm new to reloading the .380 specifically, and I know the small case poses considerations that might not be quite as weighty in larger cases. Who has loaded the .380 and can provide info and tips that might help, like which powders tend to produce best accuracy, velocity and overall good functioning, especially with regard to the little mini-autos in this caliber that are so popular today. I know the little guns CAN prove a bit more finicky than the larger models, just because the spring tensions and timing of the cycle is more critical. I also know that crimping as a separate and final step can be critical for 100% functioning with any auto. Other than these little tidbits, which will always be a part of the little beasts that can be so useful, what can you contribute from your experience?

Good, accurate, fast and accurate powders is a chief concern for me due to the uses I have for it.

[runfiverun]

I would look through many of the 9m threads here.
the ideas and many of the faster powders will cross-over to the 380.
for sure your question about the powders is a concern and is where I would focus my time, after using many of the suggestions in the 9m threads.

[Motor]

We use the Lee 102gr. I'll edit in the load data later when I get home. We've used it in both Taurus and Ruger mini .380s.

Motor

[Cherokee]

I use the new Lee 95 gr fn with good results in 3 different 380's, sized to .357. 231 has been my power of choice for 380 for many years. The load I use is 3.2/231 @ .930 OAL and taper crimp. It's not hard to load. Inciderntly, I FL size all my 380 cases using a carbide 223 sizer die which takes out any bulge that might be there from a previous firing and sizes closer to the extractor groove than the usual 380 sizer; found this out over 40 years ago.

[aspangler]

My 738 LOVES the Lee 102 gr boolit. I pour them from 50/50 pure/ WW and shoot them as dropped. The powder of choice is 2.7 gr of Bullseye. half dollar sized groups at 15 yards and will go all the way through a gallon jug of water. That's my carry load and gun. Hope that helped.

[35remington]

Due to slide travel limitations, lighter bullets with correct feed profiles help reduce the chance of bolt over base misfeeds in the tiny guns.

It may sound old school, but due to fine metering in small charges and the abundance of load data as well as the ability to cycle the pistol with light to standard charges nothing surpasses good old Bullseye IMO.

Second the notion of a flat point as long as it feeds 100 percent. HP's struggle and fail to meet FBI minimums. Those that pass barely expand, barely meet the FBI minimum in so doing and offer less penetration by far than the FP's do.

[boho]

+1 on the Lee 102. Most accurate load in the Bersa my Lil lady shoots is the 102 on top of unique.

[Keyston44]

I use the Lee 102gr cast bullet also. It is shot as cast over 2.5gr of AA#2 out of my Taurus 738. I don't have any problems loading for it. I treat it just like any other caliber I load for.

Key

[dondiego]

2.8 grains of Bullseye with any of the boolits mentioned. Rotor #2 with an RCBS Little Dandy powder thrower works.

[country gent]

Theres no magic to loading the 380 auto. But you do need to watch several things. This is a small case with limited capacity so pressures may jump quickly with some powder bullet combinations. Another is the guns are small and light slides velocity can be pretty quick and hard. I load 380 for several diffrent firearms a sig 238, bersa, colt mustang. My load is a duplication of the rem 102 golden saber load. Same point of impact to point of aim, same basic ejection pattern. If you go slow working loads up there is no magic to it and things will be good. Always be safe and work up from starting loads, on small cases maybe even a little below starting. Another trick is take some factory loads similar to what you want to produce along and shoot a group with them then you loads, same poi evection pattern isnt complete proof but it gives an idea of where your at. Cases being thrown noticeably farther diffrent impacts on targets can be a warning of issues.

[Blackwater]

.35, you've captured my thinking on bullets perfectly, and the reason I'm probably going to convert to cast for self defense. Expansion is a good thing PROVIDED the bullet penetrates deeply ENOUGH, and FP's DO cut blood vessels and organ tissue and other stuff that makes bad guys cease and desist more sure and somewhat rapid IF they're the oversized variety. I've come to practice head shots with my little Taurus. Just don't feel entirely comfortable with that size and power level NOT doing so. And these guns are really primarily, if not entirely, "last ditch" type of provisions we have to make if and when bad things happen, and we may have to stop a bad guy from making our wives widows. That ain't no small thing!

And country gent, you touch on something that I learned long ago and usually take for granted, but the ejection pattern of any given load IS a great factor that'll tell us, if we'll just notice it, whether our loads are REALLY "good to go" or possibly need some tweaking. This is a crucial thing, rather than a small detail, for ANY guns we carry for defense and self protection, and one that many would do well to learn about and pay attention to. Thanks. Excellent post!

[Eddie2002]

Been loading a 115 grain .355 diameter cast boolit over 2.4 grains of Greendot as a pratice round for my little Ruger .380 LCP. Traded for 2 boxes of the boolits a while back and found that the load doesn't give any leading and has a medium recoil. Don't know what mould was used but the boolit has only one lube groove. Still have an unopened box of 500 to load, might try some over a faster powder like Bullseye next.
Still working on point and shoot with the Ruger, the pistol seems to shoot low when using the sights.

[rintinglen]

Stop right there! That RD 358-100 is the cats meow. 3.1 grains of WW-231 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye and you are off to the races. My walther, Colt Mustang, Beretta, and LCP all eat that load without hiccups.

When sizing cases though, make sure you get the sizer down as far as it will go in the press. For rifles, I usually leave a nickle's space between shell holder and sizing die to maintain the shoulder, but don't do that here. I made that mistake and found that some of my cases weren't sized enough to hang onto my boolits and allowed them to push back into the cases. Luckily I caught the error before I cranked out a bunch of them, but that is the only "trick" that you need to be aware of when loading the 380. Everything else is just normal reloading. What I like is that a double charge is instantly noticeable.

I have 3 molds that I have used besides the RD, but that is my mainstay now. I have a 2 cavity 356-242-95 grain rn, and the afore-mentioned LEE 102 grain RN, also two cavity, but they are left in the dust by the 6 cavity Ranch Dog. I have an NOE RG-2 that casts a 88 grain hp that gets some use, but if I have to put lead into a two legged varmint, I think I'll want more penetration than that little HP can provide.

[Blackwater]

Rin, your thinking about penetration mirrors my own, and it's why I intend to get busy in my reloading room as soon as I can get-r-done. What kind of penetration does that HP bullet give you, if you've tried it in wet newsprint?

[Boolseye]

Another vote for the TL-356-95RF or 356-102-1R over 2.8 gr. BE. Shoots great in Hi-Point .380 and Taurus TCP738.
Also both are good 9mm Luger boolits.

[edctexas]

I use a NOE 358242 which throws about a 96grRN. I size to 356 after powder coating. I have been using Red Dot. The trick is to expand very carefully to insert the boolit. My RCBS expander works but the setting is critical. You really don't want a big flare. Without a rest these shoot in my Walther PPK to a 2 1/2 inch circle. I will be looking at some of the other boolits mentioned in this thread.

Ed C

[44man]

My hat is off to you that can load the little thing. I would have to look to see if it was in my fingers! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2: Might be more on the floor then in the block!

[edctexas]

I'm not sure I could load my 32Auto cases. Powder so small a load and the bullets are tiny. At least on a 223 the case can be held on to!

Ed C

[MaryB]

You guys would be lost with some of the electronic components I used to replace... 2 on the left being very common size!

http://www.fpga4fun.com/images/SMDsizes.jpg

[EMC45]

I like 120gr. Lee TCs in my .380s. They do real well in the DiamondBack DB380, Astra Constable and the KelTec P3AT.

[Blackwater]

EMC, how do you like that little Diamondback? I looked at one when I got my Taurus, and got the Taurus mainly because I thought it would be a bit safer for pocket carry, being DA with a fair length of pull, but I was really sorta' fascinated with it. Never have shot one, but they are really neat little guns. The guy in the store also hadn't had any feedback on any he'd sold when I got the Taurus, so that affected my decision as well. Just curious how you like it, how it shoots (accuracy?) and how's your trigger pull after you've gotten used to it? And how reliable has it proven to be for you? Thanks for any input you care to give.

[Boolseye]

I like 120gr. Lee TCs in my .380s. They do real well in the DiamondBack DB380, Astra Constable and the KelTec P3AT. That's interesting. Mind sharing your load?
*update* never mind, I found some data for the 120.

[paul edward]

I have had good luck in a PK380 with 4.4 grains of Power Pistol and 100 grain jacketed. Have the Lee TL356-95 mold but have not yet had a chance to cast with it.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I use 2.5 gr of bullseye under Lee 95 gr cast. Works great in my LCP!

[smoked turkey]

I currently use the Lyman 358242 95 gr. RN over 3.1 gr of rotor dropped Win 231 and a Win SP primer. I've taken a few additional steps to insure reliable feeding in my S&W BodyGuard. I was having problems with boolit/case alignment due to the relatively short shank of the boolit within the case. In other words the boolit ended up being seated at a very slight angle to the case. A set of Hornady dies with the floating sleeve in the seating die really helped with this issue. Ofcourse the roll crimp is not good with this cartridge and can cause improper headspace. As such I use an RCBS taper crimp die as a seperate operation after boolit seating for an OAL of .980. I remove the barrel from the slide and use it as a guide to check for proper chambering of the finished round in the actual barrel. I have recently gotten a 356242 in 120 gr because I wanted to try a heavier boolit. I really enjoy shooting the little round and have found it to be very accurate in the BodyGuard.

[Land Owner]

Ranch Dog 6-cavity TL358-100-RF mold that water drops at 104 grains with 49/49/2 - Pb/WW/Sn over 4.5 grains of IMR 700X through a pair of Walther PPK, one blue one sst. SWEET! I love these little cartridges!

Remanufactured (Ultramax at Midway) 115 grain cast RN ammo sells today for over $0.65 per round and there are a plethora of jacketed rounds at or well over $1.00 per round. I am cranking mine out at less than $0.045 per round. That's an average of 17 of mine to 1 Retail. Three (3) clips to one bullet Retail. SWEET! I love these little cartridges!

btw, at 6'-04" I have hands that can palm a basketball. I have no dexterity problems with these little cases or their little boolits. The 380 ACP's are a "handfull", literally, when compared to say a fist full of 45 Colts!

[Blackwater]

The cost is another big factor I appreciate. It allows 2 things that are really important with these little guns. 1, that they allow MUCH more practice without guilt of being a spendthrift or challenging the budget, plus 2, it lets us shoot the SAME EXACT LOAD every time. With .380 factory stuff being hard to find nowadays, that last is significant too! You just can't use differing ammo and expect to maintain a consistent POI, and with these little guns, we may NEED to place a bullet precisely. This really IS a "big deal" with these little guns, and CAN be done if we'll but put in the time and learn to do it right. The lesser the power we carry, the more important it is to use it precisely and quickly, and nothing but practice (after learning the right WAY to shoot) will yield that with any reliability. Good points, sir!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Browning 1971 .380 - Lee 358-105-SWC works very well, very accurate, sized .358 in my little pistol - HP38 powder, may not feed in some without some feed ramp and smoothing sharp edges of chamber.

[JStory]

I use Lees 102 grain mold as well. I load them over 3.5 grains of Winchester 452AA. I know its old powder, but was able to get some. I shoot these out of a Ruger LCP, and my Thunder Plus. Just use wheel weights, tumble lubed, and no problems.

[Bigslug]

A box of Winchester Q4206 load would be a cheap way to start your experiments:

142485

It's got a nice little meplat on it with radiused corners, which can be an asset if you've got a gun that forces the round to travel through extreme angles to get to the chamber. If your gun sucks it down like Gatorade in July, you can probably look at more aggressive noses if it's hitchy, something less so.