Lead waterfall!!!

[1911KY]

I had my first unfortunate lead spill last night. I was chugging along pouring some 200 gr SWC's when I got the bright idea to start fiddling with handle adjustments on my 4-20. It was pouring a little faster than I wanted so instead of just lowering the adjustment screw down to an acceptable level I got the bright idea to turn the valve rod adjustment screw to try and slow it down. Well that was my blonde moment, because the pot just started pouring lead! I tried to hold the handle down to stop it and of course it did nothing, so I started turning the adjustment screw to stop it and it wasn't working either. :holysheep
After a minute of constant pouring I finally got it adjusted to where it stopped, but by then a good 5 lbs or more was in the catch pan and waterfalling onto the floor.

All I can say is thank goodness I have smooth concrete in my garage! It did splatter all over everything within a 4 ft radius, including my boots and a little spatter on my pants. Using a metal scraper I managed to get everything cleaned up and with a flat shovel scooped up and into a bucket. No burns anywhere, thankfully.

What a PITA that was.:groner: I had an aluminum catch pan under the pot but it wasn't ready for that kind of flow!

Note to self, use a deep metal pot with an almost empty casting pot when adjusting the valve rod and handle.

Be careful out there! One dumb decision and you too can enjoy a beautiful silver waterfall!

[Walter Laich]

does get exciting when the silver stream starts pouring out. Glad you were hurt

[dondiego]

I keep a large, rimmed, metal beer serving tray under my pot and an empty can nearby. An ingot mold is also close.

[mdi]

Why didn't you just put a pan, can, or pot under the spout while you adjusted the valve?

[1911KY]

Why didn't you just put a pan, can, or pot under the spout while you adjusted the valve?

I had an aluminum pan under it that would hold a lb or 2, but I didn't expect that type of flow. Just wasn't thinkin. Lesson learned.

[1911KY]

does get exciting when the silver stream starts pouring out. Glad you weren't hurt

Thanks! Fixed that for ya, I hope! :D

[Blackwater]

Welcome to casting 101 1/2, 1911. THIS is the reason we approach our craft warily, ALWAYS taking into account the "what ifs" involved. IF we just do things in a manner that IF something bad happens, we STILL don't get hurt, then we are behaving wisely. If we don't, sometimes we get hurt. Things don't always go as planned, so we have to approach anything dangerous, like playing with molten lead at very high temps, with caution and do all we can to provide for the "what ifs."

If it's any consolation, and makes you feel any better, most of us have had at least SOME sort of mishap along our way, even some of the best and most experienced casters here. As the old saying goes, wisdom comes from experience, and much experience comes from making simple mistakes. You are now wiser, but still healthy. That's always something to be thankful for, and responsive to in the future. Bet you already have, or at least are looking for a bigger pan?

I've never used bottom pour, so haven't had your particular experience, but that doesn't matter. When playing with molten lead, there'll ALWAYS be ways to hurt yourself. You did good. Your mistake didn't cost you. It really doesn't get any better than that in life, unless of course we're perfect (fat chance!). You really did good. Congrats!

[pworley1]

Experience is still the best teacher.

[runfiverun]

there is a reason the dog is scared of the deep fryer. :lol:
I don't know the reason but the dog and someone else does.

[ukrifleman]

Looks like the tinsel fairy dumped on you big time! but glad to know you were none the worse for wear.

Just goes to show, we all have to be mindful of what we do, when the galena is in full flow.

ukrifleman.

[1911KY]

Yea, one of those 1 am decisions you wish you could have back!! I have been extremely careful thus far, just let a moment slip and paid the price. Like you said, didn't get hurt, so being a mistake it couldn't have gone any better.

I have been trying to get some casting done the past few nights and have had to put it off every night until last night. I should have just waited until tonight to do it. My head is always more clear going into a weekend.

I have a couple of pots that would have worked perfectly, just didn't have the mental clarity to use it at the time. Live and learn.

[leadman]

I use a small bread pan under the spout of my RCBS pot. Still probably would not hold a full pot, but would give me time to run!

[mold maker]

The Gods of the silver stream have taught us another lesson and you weren't hurt. Thanks for sharing the story and hopefully some of us will benefit from it.
Glad it ended well.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Yep helpful info. Glad you weren't hurt!! Teddy

[376Steyr]

The real lesson here is ladle pouring is the One True Way to cast, and all you bottom-drippers are just asking for divine retribution. :kidding:

[foesgth]

After reading the thread title I thought you had made one of your wishes to the genie in the bottle. Standing by the lead waterfall with your ingot mold. Glad you are OK!

[David2011]

I'll repeat myself. The garage floor oil drip tray ($12 at Wal-Mart) is about 47" x 25" x 1/2" deep and will contain a LOT of lead. It's galvanized steel and lead doesn't stick to it. The lip keeps your boolits from rolling off onto the floor on good days. On bad days it may be a little more valuable. I put a piece of 1/2" sheetrock under mine to provide some heat protection to the cabinet finished oak countertop just in case I get a large concentration of heat. A good day of casting can build up more heat than I would deliberately want to expose to the polyurethane finish. I just dump the boolits onto the drip pan. All of my casting equipment that's being actively used stays within the boundaries of the drip tray.

Cheap insurance!

David

[Foto Joe]

A couple of years ago I had pretty much the same thing happen except I wanted more flow not less. I managed to back the rod right out of the threads on my 4-20 and the race was on.

Since then I haven't done it again but one wise old sage offered that the quickest way to fix the problem is to simply put in an ingot of lead or two and the spout will freeze in short order, DUH!!

[mdi]

Small loaf pans, about 3 1/2"x6" hold roughly 18-20 lbs. of lead and fit under the spout on my Lee pot. I had the adjusting screw head pop out of the slot in the needle valve and the stream went wide open. Lucky for me I had a couple loaf pans within arm's reach! Yep, BTDT...

[gwpercle]

When the BAD IDEA fairy comes around and starts telling you to do things like that you have got to lean to just say NO! Bad Idea fairies just love to put ideas into your head, watch U-Tube...effects of listening to the BIF each and every one.
Glad to hear you weren't injured, that could have gotten bad quick. Catch pan is a life saver .
Actually I went back to open top pot and ladle casting after a few experiences with a bottom pour pot. Open tops just don't ever leak, drip or flood your bench, unless you turn it over.

Gary

[quickdraw66]

This is one of the reasons I use a ladle. Less tinkering, more casting. :p

[Blackwater]

Yeah, me too, but that's not a GUARANTEE that bad things can't happen. Once lowered a slightly wet WW into a pot that I didn't detect, and got a small but very attention getting shower. No injuries other than a few tiny shards that hit exposed skin areas, but even with ladles, bad things CAN happen. There's just no way to avoid focusing on what we're doing that WON'T eventually cost us, or at the very least cause some instantaneous alarms. Focus is where it's at, and where it's always going to be.

In our "modern" world, we've become accustomed to being so busy and having to balance so many thoughts at once, that we don't "see" any need to change gears when casting, and we simply don't FOCUS like we really need to. When the price for that comes, it's just not pleasant, no matter how it turns out. This is something I see reflected in the general overall attitude of many newbies here, at least as it appears in print in this electronic world. That may not be entirely "fair" or totally accurate all the time, but it's so common that I KNOW it applies to at least some here, and it's been a concern of mine for some time. I've tried to broach it a time or two, and with varying degrees of response, and I just hope this little thread and the kindness and honesty of the OP is appreciated and the lessons heeded. It COULD prevent a serious accident that is MUCH more costly.

And all we have to do, to learn the lesson, is FOCUS, and take serious things seriously. Very simple, but crucial if we are to get the kind of results we all truly want.

[Ricochet]

ARGH! I did just about exactly the same thing around a year ago. What a mess! It did give me an opportunity to completely empty the pot and clean it out thoroughly which it needed. White vinegar in a warmed pot, near boiling, works wonders. The stuff coming out is toxic, so handle it appropriately.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I had never had a spill like the OP talked about until about two years ago. I came up with a bright idea that I needed to put something under my bottom pour 4/20 Lee pot. My wife gave me a cookie pan that she did not like, it is 1" deep 11" wide and 17" long inside measurement. About the third time I used it I had a spill. I was heating up a pot for a casting session and decided I needed to do something in the house I was only gone for about 10 minutes. The pot was empty and the cookie sheet held all of the lead from the pot. I learned two lessons from that experience, never leave the pot unattended, and always put the pan under the pot.

[clum553946]

You can try putting a 1/2 restaurant baking pan under your pot for safety over flow. My Lee bottom pour that was a week old started to run & I stopped using it before it it got to the point where it wouldn't stop the flow. Amazon took it back for a full refund, plus sent UPS to pick it up!

[NavyVet1959]

One thing to remember if you decide to use the cookie sheet -- some of them have a *tin* coating. You can very easily end up *soldering* your casting pot's stand to the cookie sheet. BTDT... :) You will pretty much destroy the cookie sheet trying to get it unstuck. :(

These days, if it happens to me, I put something under the spout to catch the lead so that it doesn't make a mess. This gives me time to do other things. I then unplug the pot and if there is room for it, I add cold ingots to the pot. If your pot is not too full or you are running it too hot, this will often cool it down far enough to solidify it. Solidifying it doesn't fix your problem, but it gives you time to think about what you need to do before you heat the pot back up and have to deal with the molten lead possibly coming out again.

I haven't tried it, but I suspect that you might be able to just hold a stick firmly against the bottom of the spout and shut off the flow. If you are using a mold where you hit the sprue plate with a stick to cut the sprue, that stick might work.

The best solution might be to just have an ingot mold that would fit underneath the pot while also being large enough to hold a full pot worth of lead and being of a size that could be could be fed back into the pot later without needing to be remelted or cut up.

Bottom pours are nice, but they do have different issues than ladle pouring.

Or you can try a compromise between bottom pour and ladle pouring that I came up with awhile back that FortuneCookie45LC (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8mM8eaTSFODu1QpedvpInA) made a video about and reviewed on YouTube.

Bottom pour ladle design


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZQQ159QJCo

[Hardcast416taylor]

My dipper only Lyman Mag 20 sits on 1 bench area. My RCBS pot sits on another bench area and has an 8"x8"x1 1/2"H old aluminum cake pan in the dribble catch area. Maybe now you fellas understand why my stool that I sit on while casting has casters on the legs so I can kick back away from a "silver shower" a little quicker that just getting up off a non easy moving stool.Robert

[BCB]

1911KY,

My post is really not about the lead waterfalls, but the fact you were going to adjust the screw on the top of the pot...

I never really understood it much, but I do know it is to control the flow...

I just always left mine the way it was from the factory or thereabout if I tore it apart to clean the pot...

Do you turn the screw clockwise to slow the flow down?...

My brain just doesn't work along the line of looking at something and figuring out what is what in many cases!!!...

Thanks...BCB

[1911KY]

1911KY,

My post is really not about the lead waterfalls, but the fact you were going to adjust the screw on the top of the pot...

I never really understood it much, but I do know it is to control the flow...

I just always left mine the way it was from the factory or thereabout if I tore it apart to clean the pot...

Do you turn the screw clockwise to slow the flow down?...

My brain just doesn't work along the line of looking at something and figuring out what is what in many cases!!!...

Thanks...BCB

Well, there are actually 2 adjustments you can make. You have the valve rod screw which is what I was turning and shouldn't have been. The bolt head that connects the handle to the pot is what I needed to turn to give my handle a shorter open and close pull. The valve rod adjustment becomes easier to adjust once you set your handle travel. Clockwise turns of the valve rod will decrease the flow while counter clockwise increases the flow.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/EL3469.pdf

Page 2 outlines the flow adjusting.

I like this sentence "Do not rotate the valve rod too far counter clockwise as continuous flow will occur."!

[1911KY]

Apparently, this just isn't my week to be reloading and casting. I was reloading last night and after my 20th loaded cartridge, the pistol meter insert on my LNL AP decided to just drop out of my rotor, thus dumping a half a powder measure full of WST all over my press and on the floor!! Geez!! Can't catch a break!

I managed to salvage the majority of the powder and it gave me a chance to totally clean up my press, but I can't figure out why it came out.

It seems that the meter is only held in by slight side tension and it isn't locked in with a machined groove. So my guess is that the constant dropping of the meter in the rotor eventually just broke the side tension and it gave way. Needless to say I will be checking the tension on the meter a lot more now.

[BCB]

Well, there are actually 2 adjustments you can make. You have the valve rod screw which is what I was turning and shouldn't have been. The bolt head that connects the handle to the pot is what I needed to turn to give my handle a shorter open and close pull. The valve rod adjustment becomes easier to adjust once you set your handle travel. Clockwise turns of the valve rod will decrease the flow while counter clockwise increases the flow.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/EL3469.pdf

Page 2 outlines the flow adjusting.

I like this sentence "Do not rotate the valve rod too far counter clockwise as continuous flow will occur."!

Interesting...

My 4-20 does not have the same adjustment as the instruction manual shows...

Apparently, mine is an older model...

I have a big screw that fits in a slot on the valve rod. It is obviously more sloppy adjustment than the one you have...

I got mine at a yard sale so I didn't have instructions...

Thanks...BCB