low power 45 colt questions

[nagant]

I have an old S&W H.E. originally in .455 but cylinder shaved for 45 colt (not acp). I reload and tried .452 &.454 boolits but no real winner. Bought a lee mold for the ruger old army as it is slightly bigger at .456. My questions are too many but will start by asking if there is a youtube of casting with cast iron pot and ladle. Looking to see how others set up for small no. casting. And does a mold always pour boolits over size? If so should i buy a .454 mold to get a .455 boolit? I'm holding off casting any more till i get a lyman cast iron pot and bottom pour ladle that i Ebayed. I used light load data my loads are under 900fps. Can i use pure lead? I used pure lead with a little pewter thrown in and had about 40% junk. Rounded edges mostly but i was skimming slag more then pouring! As i said above i'm waiting for better equipment, thanks.

[bhn22]

First of all, you need to determine what bullet diameter you need. You'll do this by slugging the bore with dead soft lead slugs, known to be larger in diameter that the bore. Egg shaped fishing sinkers are commonly used for this, or soft lead muzzleloader balls. The more must be completely clean, and lightly oiled before attempting this. You will also need to do the same with the cylinder throats, which must also be completely clean and lightly oiled. The throat dimensions must be larger than the bore dimensions, or leading is virtually guaranteed. Use the "search" function here or on youtube for more precise instructions. This information is commonly available in both places, so I won't write a long dissertation on the process.

[runfiverun]

there is a sticky specifically on these revolvers here somewhere.
dang it I can't remember exactly where it is though, you could do a search on webley's with shaved cylinders and I bet it would pop up.

oh and welcome to the place.

[bangerjim]

Slug as said to find out what size you really have.

You can use powder coating to gain 2-3 thou in size. Many do that rather than messing around with custom dies and sizers......much more cost-effective!

I cast several 9mm slugs, PC them, size for my guns, and shoot in my 38/357 guns with great success. And it still works in my 9's.......one mold size for 2 cals.

Check it out in "alt coatings" threads.

banger

[nagant]

Thanks, i have gun smith that is going to slug it but never gets around to it. Fired boolits come out slightly rifled, 452 and 454 boolits drop thru the cylinder. These boolits http://www.midwayusa.com/product/432413/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-456-220-1r-456-diameter-220-grain-1-ogive-radius-conical can be pushed thru the cylinder with a ball point pen. I'm loading 20 of them with 5.5 grns of trail boss and will try to get to the range today.

[sawzall]

I'm a little bit confused. How do you shave a .455 cylinder to use 45 Colt? 45 Colt is much longer than .455. Shaving the cylinder on tjose old revolvers is to make room for thke half moon clips used for loading 45acp in them. Done all the time up here in Canada so antique class revolvers can use easily obtained 45acp ammunition.

[Outpost75]

The .45 Colt rim is 0.060", vs. 0.039" for the .455, so about 0.020"+/- does need to be faced off the back of the cylinder to prevent the .45 Colt rims from binding against the recoil shield. Chamber lengths on the S&W Hand Ejector are dimensioned for the longer Mk.1 type 0.882" case, but sometimes chambers were lengthened to .45 Colt also.

In use .45 Cowboy Special brass, which is a .45 ACP case draw .895" long, having a .45 Colt rim.

The Saeco #954 and #955 bullets drop .455-.456" in wheelweights + 1% tin alloy and are a correct fit in the chambers of most .455 revolvers without sizing. The .455 Hand Ejectors were not heat treated as the later M1917s were. Some early experimental .45 ACPs did fail proof, which is why the US Army required all contract .45 ACP revolvers to be heat treated. Maximum pressure for .455 ammunition was about 13,000 cup, whereas the maximum product average for .45 ACP Ball M1911 was 20,000 cup, which exceeded the proof pressure for .455 and .45 Colt revolvers made during that era. The .45 ACP High Pressure Test M1 (Proof) cartridge of the WW2 era was 22,000 cup.

Chamber pressures of modern .45 ACP factory loads are measured with piezoelectric equipment and the MAP of standard pressure ammunition is 21,000 psia and for +P ammunition 23,000 psia.

In Cowboy Special brass I load 4 grains of Bullseye with the 260-grain #955 bullet and 4.5 grains with the 230-grain #954, velocities are about 650 and 750 fps, respectively. I have not pressure tested the above loads, but they have proven safe and satisfactory in my older revolvers and probably don't exceed about 13-14,000 cup.

140324140325

In Starline .45 Schofield brass, 4.5 grains of Bullseye with the 230-grain #954 approximates the M1882 service cartridge, giving 730 f.p.s. in my Colt New Service M1909 with 5-1/2" barrel and 0.008" cylinder gap, whereas the same charge with the 260-grain #955 bullet gives 620 fps.

In Starline .45 Colt brass 5 grains of Bullseye with the 260-grain #955 bullet gives 700 fps, 6 grains gives 820 f.p.s. and 6.5 grains gives 906 f.p.s. and should not be exceeded in old revolvers!

In Starline .45 Colt brass, using the above charges substituting the 230-grain #954 bullet 5 grains of Bullseye gives 750 fps., 6 grains of Bullseye gives 810 fps and 6.5 grains of Bullseye gives 920 fps.

[nagant]

It chambers, fires and extracts .45 colt and rear of cylinder has no markings or serial no. and not big enough gap for mooned 45 acp's. .455 cylinders weren't heat treated like 1917 cylinders, so aren't designed for .45 acp pressures. edit just saw your post OUTPOST75, thanks for the info

[John Boy]

Nagant - you would be best served logging onto the S&W forum and presenting your issue there ...
S&W H.E
And be sure to specify the model caliber on the revolver

[nagant]

Johnboy i did post it on that site and no one had a good boolit choice. i drove a 452 boolit thru the barrel but really can tell much from it. Its a 5 grove and i can't figure out how to measure it. I get .448-.455, roughly measured. cylinder throats are .454. OUTPOST75 i may try a .454 mold but a Lee do to insufficient funds, hope aluminum drops the same dia. It's fun gun to shoot, but would like to get decent groups at 50 feet .

[Cowboy_Dan]

To measure a slug with an odd number of grooves wrap it with something relatively stiff (no overlapping) and subtract twice the thickness of the wrap from your measurement. Never done it myself, but I hear strips of pop cans work well. Good luck and welcome to the forrum.

[nagant]

will give it a shot, thanks.

[DrCaveman]

Good god man, welcome to the site.

This is not the FIRST place one looks when starting casting and loading. Books, man books. Published print means that at least one person oversaw the information and released it. Not always perfect but at least it got past the lawyers.

No guarantee on boolit diameter based on the material of construction, sorry. If you want real diameters you will probably have to buy premium moulds like Accurate or NOE. Ive learned that the hard, chore-boy way, through lee, lyman, and rcbs moulds.

And for the sake of all that is merciful, start your casting and handloading with something more normal and forgiving. If you are already experienced and simply frustrated, then i recant

[nagant]

Whoa Caveman its alright. I use the Lyman and hodgdon manuals. Just looking for a sub 900 fps load. Since it was originally a .455 gun i should like .455 boolits, no? I used store bought cast .452&454 hardness unknown. Lee told me that the ROA mold has a .456 middle band and the rest is smaller (Can't remember but thinking he said .454). COWBOY DAN, i did as you suggested and came up with .452! So maybe i need a softer alloy instead of bigger diameter. I would love to find a boolit supplier that sold sampler pack in different diameters and try some soft .454 &.455. Anyway thanks for all the help, I'm off to no internet land for a week.

[nagant]

The lee .456 boolits shoot strait and will keep casting them. I found some 200 grain 20/1 .454's that shot even better but have no idea who made them. Will have to find a mold like it, .454 rnfp .200 grain. thanks for every ones help.