NOE 360-180 WFN in a Marlin 1894C? Anyone?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hi guys and gals,

I'm looking to use my Marlin 1894C for some deep sized game in the fall. My lovely wife is sending me up to Idaho to do some hunting. I currently load the beautiful 358156 non gas checked in 38 special for 99% of my shooting and it works beautifully. I plan on loading some 357 loads to see how it shoots being pushed fast. I have been looking at a heavier boolit for my hunting purposes though and the NOE 360-180WFN really struck me. I'm not sure if it will feed in the 94 and figured someone on here must have already tried this. My 94 will not feed a 358429 seated to the crimp groove in 357 brass. It will however feed 38 specials loaded with 358495 like nobody's business. As I write this I'm also wondering if the extra 20 or so grains in the NOE are going to make a difference.
Any results with this gun and boolit combo or with just this boolit (accuracy wise) would be awesome.
I'm not big on having tons of different loads and boolits for different guns. I like to simplify a bit. Thats why i like the 358156. I shoots well for me in MAG and in Special. Who thinks the NOE boolit would be a good all around for 38 and 357 loads in a rifle and pistol?
Am I overthinking it? should I stick with the trusty 358156?
Thanks for the info!

[sghart3578]

I shoot the NOE 180 grain bullet in my 1894CS. It is very accurate out to 100 yards, the furthest I have tested for accuracy. I like the bullet a lot. It feeds flawlessly in my Marlin when loaded in 357 mag cases. In fact, I don't fire 38 spl brass in my Marlin anymore. I use 357 cases and load them down.

I size the NOE bullets to .360" and use two coats of Ben's Liquid Lube. If you like I will dig out all of my chrono info from my load testing and post them here for you.

I too try to keep my ammo shelf simple. I have a few tested loads that I use all the time.

As a side note, I have found that the Lee 358-158-RF bullet is an equal in accuracy to the NOE bullet. I took my Lee mold and enlarged the holes until the bullets drop at .362". I then size them to .360" and they work great. As for muzzle velocity there is very little difference between the two bullets at the same powder charge.

Every deer I have taken was with a 150 grain bullet. Of course, that was a 30 cal moving much faster. So in your case you may want the heavier NOE bullet. I don't hunt much anymore, but both bullets ring the steel with authority.

I have tried the NOE 180 gr in all of my S&W's and the results were excellent.

If you don't have a NOE 180 mold already I could send you a bunch of bullets for you to try first.


Steve in N CA

[Michael J. Spangler]

sounds like it works awesome!
I would love to see the chrono and load data if possible. Much appreciated.

I'm going to do some comparisons and a little looking around. If I find I'm in need of some test bullets I will definitely take you up on the bullet offer. Maybe I have a bullet you would like to try out, or just some ingots to say thanks.

[imashooter2]

The NOE 360-180-WFN and its various near clones are designed around feeding in the 1894C. I've shot both the original Lars design Lee Group Buy and the NOE version and couldn't tell the difference. Here's a range report from a few years back on yet another near clone designed by Crabo:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?40202-Crabo-s-180-grain-357-38-design-The-day-off-report

[MarkP]

140190I have shot these at 1,850 fps out of a 350 Rem Mag (1:16") with surprising accuracy at 75 and 175 yds. The NOE 360-180 WFN works well in all of my 38's from 2" J frames up 8-3/8" M 14. I have a brass RG2 Hp version and cast both HP & FN.

[Michael J. Spangler]

thank you that thread was a great read.
So I take it that the NOE mold is meant to feed in the 1894 and the mod in that thread was so the other bullet design could feed correct?
Sorry I'm a bit slow tonight. It's been a long week, I need some sleep.
The Chrono data is pretty impressive. I would love to see how a max load of 2400 would shoot with that configuration. The 2014 Alliant manual lists a 170 GDHP with 14.5 Grains as max. Thats 2 grains over your max tested load. I would have to say 14 grains would seem plenty safe with a 180 cast. Wow that would make for a great little woods round. I bet you could get 1700 FPS with a carbine.

At 275 yards that like hitting a deer with a revolver packed with 180 grain bullets at 1100 FPS from about 5 feet from the muzzle. Granted with 100 Yard zero the bullet drops 44 inches out to 275. Still it's cool to look at the numbers

[imashooter2]

Yes, the 360-180-WFN feeds fine in the unmodified 1894.

In my alloy, the NOE boolit averaged over 185 grains lubed and checked. Just my opinion, but if you want them to move faster than 1,500 fps, then Lil' Gun or H110/W296 is the way to go... Do a Google search and you can find an H110 load listed by Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets. It's way over book, and fast.

[sghart3578]

I have some chrono info for you. Also, I should add that I am shooting the plain-based version of the NOE 180. For faster loads I use a gas-checked RCBS 38-162 SWC. I have not loaded any of these for a long time, I just target shoot any more.


NOE 360-180-WFN PB:

9.1 gr A#7 WSP avg 1392 fps......10.1 gr A#7 avg 1458 fps
10 gr A#9 WSP avg 1309 fps......11.7 gr A#9 avg 1552 fps
10.7 gr 2400 WSP avg 1366 fps......11.4 gr 2400 avg 1495 fps

I settled on these loads because for the way I shoot they are the most accurate. And they have very good muzzle velocity. Here are some targets fired at 25 yards at an indoor range. All are three shot groups.


140193140196140197

I don't shoot paper targets at 100 yards so I don't have any photos, I use an 8" steel plate. I can hit it regularly with the Skinner peep sight on my rifle. That's my acceptable "kill zone" should I want to go after deer or hogs here. Also, I am fairly consistent hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards. To help with accuracy I took my stock 8 lb trigger pull down to 2.5 lbs.


Hope this helps.


Steve in N CA

[g.man10mm]

For what it's worth, I load 360-180-WFN GC to 2000fps for varmints in the .358 Win. It holds 2.5-3" at 100 yards.

[altheating]

The 360-180 shoots best for me at about 1550 fps out of my 357. Any faster accuracy went away. I gas check all of them, the unchecked Boolits shoot ok, but I choose to check them with aluminum checks. My 38 special loads work as well as the 357 loads. Can't comment on the marlin but they work well in the Ruger, don't see why they won't work for you.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Yes, the 360-180-WFN feeds fine in the unmodified 1894.

In my alloy, the NOE boolit averaged over 185 grains lubed and checked. Just my opinion, but if you want them to move faster than 1,500 fps, then Lil' Gun or H110/W296 is the way to go... Do a Google search and you can find an H110 load listed by Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets. It's way over book, and fast.
i just looked that up. thats pretty respectable out of a revolver. I would imagine it would crank out of the carbine. Thank you


I have some chrono info for you. Also, I should add that I am shooting the plain-based version of the NOE 180. For faster loads I use a gas-checked RCBS 38-162 SWC. I have not loaded any of these for a long time, I just target shoot any more.


NOE 360-180-WFN PB:

9.1 gr A#7 WSP avg 1392 fps 10.1 gr A#7 avg 1458 fps
10 gr A#9 WSP avg 1309 fps 11.7 gr A#9 avg 1552 fps
10.7 gr 2400 WSP avg 1366 fps 11.4 gr 2400 avg 1495 fps

I settled on these loads because for the way I shoot they are the most accurate. And they have very good muzzle velocity. Here are some targets fired at 25 yards at an indoor range. All are three shot groups.


140193140196140197

I don't shoot paper targets at 100 yards so I don't have any photos, I use an 8" steel plate. I can hit it regularly with the Skinner peep sight on my rifle. That's my acceptable "kill zone" should I want to go after deer or hogs here. Also, I am fairly consistent hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards. To help with accuracy I took my stock 8 lb trigger pull down to 2.5 lbs.


Hope this helps.



Steve in N CA
tons of help thank you. I feel the same away about groups at a distance. i prefer to shoot steel smaller than the kill zone i need. If i hit it every time then I'm happy.


For what it's worth, I load 360-180-WFN GC to 2000fps for varmints in the .358 Win. It holds 2.5-3" at 100 yards.
thats impressive. i hope to get accuracy like that in the 357. I would consider that a success.


The 360-180 shoots best for me at about 1550 fps out of my 357. Any faster accuracy went away. I gas check all of them, the unchecked Boolits shoot ok, but I choose to check them with aluminum checks. My 38 special loads work as well as the 357 loads. Can't comment on the marlin but they work well in the Ruger, don't see why they won't work for you.

i'm going to be using Hi Tek coating so hopefully no GCs will be needed. I do have 100 aluminum GCs if need be though.
thanks again guys! keep the info coming.

[robg]

in my win trapper 180 sil rcbs boolit 11.5g 2400 =1250fps ,very accurate load for me

[osteodoc08]

I've used the NOE 180gr WFNGC with very good success in my Marlin 1894 without issue. I typically use near max loads with 296. Accuracy is very good for iron sights. No function issues.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I was just checking out the H100/296 loads on the hodgdon website. Apparently someone made a typo or they had some really weird results with their tests

Pistol Load Data 10" Barrel
158 Grain with 16.7 H110 = 1591 FPS
180 Grain with 13.5 H110 = 1396 FPS

Rifle Load Data 18.5" Barrel
158 Grain with 16.7 H110 = 1757 FPS
180 Grain with 13.5 H110 = 1381 FPS

So they lost 15 FPS with the 180 grain loads in the longer barrel? I have been told you can lose velocity on longer barrels with faster powder and have seen some written examples. I doubt this would be the case. I have seen 200 FPS velocity increases from my 4" 686 to this 16.5" carbine with 2.5 grains of bullseye and a 358495. I would think H110 would be able to do a little better than that. Always check more than one manual I guess.

[mack1]

I have nothing new to add other than this boolit has worked well in two 1894s for me one microgroove and one cowboy H110 works best for me 2400 is a close second. I think ltl gun is the fastest but I will not use it in a revolver so do not load it.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I am using the old ranch dog/Lee mold, and have no complaints with that boolit in either of my leverguns, but neither are a marlin. ...one is a Henry and the other a rossi.

[outdoorfan]

I shoot that bullet (Miha's mold) at near 190 grains with 50/50 ww/soft alloy. Load is 16 grs Lil gun, and it runs pretty much right at 1800 fps out of my 16" Rossi in 357 mag cases, of course. I cast them air-cooled, and they expand plenty well down to about 1200 fps. It's an honest 150 yard deer cartridge at 1800 fps. At 100 yards it's still doing 1400 fps (actually chronographed at 100 yards). Accuracy is plenty good to 200 yards (farthest I've shot it) in my 1-30 twist Rossi.

[Michael J. Spangler]

great info.

i figure mine would drop a little heavy too due to using roughly the same blend you're using.
i think i wrote in the opening post that i shoot this gun out to 200 and with something to lean on i can hit the 10" or so gong all day long with a 358156 loaded over 3.5 grains of bullseye.
I can also lob in my 358495s over 2.5 grains of clays to ring the 18" gong all day long at the same distance. If I had a better sight picture (just holding over) I'm sure I could ring the 10" gong too.
being able to use the sights as intended might feel like cheating now!

[Djones]

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/29911AB4-0095-4145-B8A2-EA62FE133940.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/29911AB4-0095-4145-B8A2-EA62FE133940.jpg.html)

Best bullet and load in my 1984 1894c good luck in ID

[Djones]

forgot about this coyote at around 150 yards....open sights!
http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/7465C77A-3DD9-4B73-B456-16249E08B673.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/7465C77A-3DD9-4B73-B456-16249E08B673.jpg.html)

[Michael J. Spangler]

wow. that will do the trick for sure.

I've been doing all of my shooting with this gun with the stock sights. Mainly at the steel at 200 yards just for fun. With a little rest the 10" plate is an easy shot. The 18" is off hand all day with pretty fast shooting.
I think a marbles peep sight for the long shots would turn this rifle into a varmint killing machine