Elco tc hp

[sigep1764]

Anybody cast with their new NOE ELCO hollowpoint mold yet? I did... haha! First hollowpoint mold and it simply rains boolits. One tap on the handle hinge and plop plop plop plop. All four weigh within 0.1 grain of each other. Mine with straight COWW drop at 151 with the HP pins in place. This bore rider is letting me seat all the way out to 1.115 col. I've never been able to go over 1.065 with my short throats before.

[tazman]

Now I'm jealous.

[Blammer]

Elco ?

[dragon813gt]

Elco ?

The recent 9mm heavyweight group buy that was just run: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=1907&osCsid=aoiqjupfg9e24gprll3ntb8m57

Haven't received my mold yet. Was shipped Sunday so should be here any day now.

[Blammer]

Ah! thanks

[tazman]

Mine should be showing up tomorrow.

[sigep1764]

First session I only did a hundred boolits because they had wrinkles and we're sticking to the pins. Took it all apart, polished the pin tips with jewelers rouge, and boiled it all for 30 minutes. Perfect from the third drop on the second session and did three hundred. Dropping right at 358.

[tazman]

That's good to hear. I need .358 for my pistols.
What did the hollow points weigh?

[dragon813gt]

Mine arrived today :)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/TimeToMakeAmmo/15DD1CD8-3AC6-4BA4-8BDF-56066C75C1F5.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/dragon813gt/media/TimeToMakeAmmo/15DD1CD8-3AC6-4BA4-8BDF-56066C75C1F5.jpg.html)

Sorry it's not a hollow point ;)

[wrench]

I got mine a couple of days ago, cleaned and three heat cycles...ready to go now when I get some time. It looks like a beautiful mold, and a great bullet.

[sigep1764]

My hollowpoint with straight clip on wheel weight drop at 151, a little heavier than advertised. Anybody know of a good starting point for Red Dot? 2.8, maybe three grains?

[tazman]

I have a copy of the Lyman 44th reloading handbook that gives data for a 158 grain boolit(358311) in 9mm.
It lists a starting load of 3.0 and a max load of 3.6 with velocities running from 858fps to 963 fps.
No pressure is listed for any of the loads.
Please remember that this is the old version of RED DOT. The newer powder may work a bit differently.

[Ford SD]

I too have a mould in the mail and now looking for data
Found some online using WSF (one powder that i have more than a 1 lb of)
and have a copy of Lyman #4
what do people think of

Bullseye and Unique ????

but interested in other possible powders for this boolit

[sigep1764]

I've been looking for Red dot data but it is hard to come by. Only one or two listings in the Lyman 49th but none in this heavy a boolit. I think I'll start ladder loads at 2.8 and col at 1.115. It should be safe enough.

[sigep1764]

Bullseye you'll have to be careful with. Very fast powder that wont take much to get this boolit moving. Be careful of double charges with such a small amount of powder. Of course it all depends how deep you seat them.

[DR Owl Creek]

I don't have any loading manuals that have data for cast bullets over 147gr, but here's what I do have:

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition,
with Lyman #356637 147gr FP:
Clays: Start: 1.9gr Maximum: 2.8gr
Titegroup: Start: 2.5gr Maximum: 2.8gr
Bullseye: Start: 2.8gr Maximum: 3.5gr
IMR 700-X: 2.7gr Maximum: 3.3gr
Universal: Start: 3.0gr Maximum: 3.4gr
Unique: Start: 3.2gr Maximum: 3.8gr
VV N-340: Start: 3.4gr Maximum: 3.8gr
WSF: Start: 3.4gr Maximum: 3.9gr
SR-4756: Start: 3.1gr Maximum: 3.6gr
Power Pistol: Start: 4.1gr Maximum: 4.6gr*
HS-6: Start: 4.4gr Maximum: 5.0gr
True Blue: Start: 4.7gr Maximum: 5.3gr
AA #7: Start: 6.3gr Maximum: 7.1gr
Blue Dot: Start: 5.1gr Maximum: 5.9gr
* Lyman suggests that 4.6gr of Power Pistol may be the most accurate load with this bullet.

Western Powders Reloading & Load Data Guide, Edition 5.0,
with Laser Cast/Oregon Trail 147gr LFP:
AA Nitro 100 NF: Start: 2.2gr Maximum: 2.7gr
Ramshot Competition: Start: 2.3gr Maximum: 2.8gr
Ramshot ZIP: Start: 3.0gr Maximum: 3.5gr
AA Solo 1000: Start: 2.9gr Maximum: 3.5gr
AA #2: Start: 3.0gr Maximum: 3.6gr
Ramshot Silhouette: Start: 3.9gr Maximum: 4.6gr
Ramshot True Blue: Start: 4.0gr Maximum: 4.7gr
AA #5: Start: 4.4gr Maximum: 5.1gr
AA #7: Start: 5.3gr Maximum: 6.3gr


Hodgdon Powder, No. 27 Data Manual (1998),
with Winchester 147gr Cast Bullet:
W-231: Start: 3.3gr Maximum: 3.5gr
WSF: Start: 3.7gr Maximum: 4.1gr


I hope this helps.

Dave

[xacex]

Anyone going to try PC on this one? I am curious if it will still chamber.

[DR Owl Creek]

Here's the load data on found for heavier weight 9mm cast bullets on Castpics:

http://castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=111

Dave

Edit: Sorry about the link to Castpics. I tried to fix it. If the 9mm data doesn't come up for you, use the "search" function on the Castpics site, then scroll to "9mm Luger", then scroll to the "153gr - 158gr" data. Data for Red dot is on page 12 of the 9mm Luger section.

[jmort]

Here is some heavyweight data





153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Winchester
W-231
3.5
895


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Winchester
W-231
4.0
990


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16; maximum


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Unique
3.5
855


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Unique
4.0
940


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Unique
4.3
1,015


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16; maximum


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
IMR
SR-4756
4.0
840


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16; maximum


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Herco
4.0
825


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Herco
4.5



Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Blue Dot
5.5
915


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Alliant
Blue Dot
6.0
995


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Accurate
AAC-7
6.0
935


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16


153
Redding/SAECO 910 roundnose
Accurate
AAC-7
6.5
985


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.16; maximum


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Winchester
W-231
3.5
880


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Unique
3.5
835


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Unique
4.0
930


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15; maximum


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
IMR
SR-4756
4.0
860


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
IMR
SR-4756
4.3
930


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15; maximum


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
IMR
SR-7625
3.5
875


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Herco
4.0
870


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Herco
4.5
925


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15; maximum, poor


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Blue Dot
5.5



Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Alliant
Blue Dot
5.8
895


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15; maximum


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Accurate
AAC-7
6.0
910


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15


157
Lyman 356637 flatnose
Accurate
AAC-7
6.5
975


Remarks: OAL (inches): 1.15; maximum





�2011 PPC, INC. All Rights Reserved. LoadData is registered in the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office

[frnkeore]

Keep in mind that this bullet will load out, futher than most heavy's. The longer COAL should allow a little more powder w/o more pressure but, watch your loads carefully. The jmort data has the longest COAL and it maybe the best to reference for HP start loads.

Lymans manual has data for the 158 gr 358311 for those that have the non HP and a 38 Super.

Frank

[sigep1764]

Thank you so much for all the help gentlemen

[FALaholic]

Anyone going to try PC on this one? I am curious if it will still chamber.

I am interested as well since I have a boat load of Hi-Tek powder.

[FALaholic]

So this will be my first NOE mold and my first custom mold on top of that. How/what are you guys using to seat the bullet? I really dont want to shell out for yet another expense of a custom RCBS seater plug.

[tazman]

I think just about any standard 9mm seating plug would work. I use the same one for all my different boolits(tc, rf, and round nose).
I don't forsee a problem with this one.

[sigep1764]

My sdb came with two seaters, one for tc boolits and one for round nose. I'm using the tc to seat them.

[straight-shooter]

Once I get some HP cast up from this beautiful mold I'm definitely going to PC them. I'll get some results posted after some testing.

I haven't decided but I'll either use W231 or CFE Pistol.

[tazman]

My mold arrived today. Hopefully I will get to cast with it tomorrow or Saturday. Should be able to try them out in the pistol next weekend.

[psychbiker]

Mold came today. I've been using 3.2 of bullseye with 147gr moly costed bear creek. That will be my starting with the hollow point.

Question bout the pins. They move just a very little up and down when mold is closed, that normal?

[sigep1764]

Yes mine does too. I just tap the handle hinge to settle the pins before I close the mold halves. After it warmed up, I didn't even need to do that. I would not worry bout.

[DR Owl Creek]

JMort,

Thanks for posting the load data. You hit a home run with that!

Dave

[DR Owl Creek]

...

Question bout the pins. They move just a very little up and down when mold is closed, that normal?


Here's a link to a tutorial about using and adjusting the NOE moulds with the RG hollow point/flat point pins: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,199.0.html

Dave

[tazman]

I ran my mold tonight for about 30 minutes. Here is a picture of the results. I got about 200 boolits lubed and drying on the table.
The mold ran perfectly and released the boolits easily. I had the mold heated before I started casting so I was getting good boolits from the second filling on.
These in the picture are sized with a .358 Lee push through(picture before lube). You can see the extent of the sizing on the front taper.
140191
They measured .359 as dropped and were nearly perfectly round. The sizer did little more than shine up the sides.
They weighed 151.5-152 grains. This is with range scrap.
I may be able to load some up tomorrow but I am not certain when I will get to shoot them.

[xacex]

I ran my mold tonight for about 30 minutes. Here is a picture of the results. I got about 200 boolits lubed and drying on the table.
The mold ran perfectly and released the boolits easily. I had the mold heated before I started casting so I was getting good boolits from the second filling on.
These in the picture are sized with a .358 Lee push through(picture before lube). You can see the extent of the sizing on the front taper.
140191
They measured .359 as dropped and were nearly perfectly round. The sizer did little more than shine up the sides.
They weighed 151.5-152 grains. This is with range scrap.
I may be able to load some up tomorrow but I am not certain when I will get to shoot them.
Thanks for sharing the pic. Great job showing where the front taper is with sizing!

[straight-shooter]

Casted and waiting for Powder Coat. This HP version casted at 150gr using a 2% tin 80/20 ww/soft combo. They mic at .359 and will be sized to .357 after PC.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd56/straightshooter44/Casting/Bullet%20Custom_zpsww0yq2a1.jpg

[straight-shooter]

Powder coated! :)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd56/straightshooter44/Casting/PC_blue%20Custom_zpsiotivotu.jpg

[tazman]

Nice! Let us know how they shoot.
I haven't had time to load enough of mine to shoot yet. Just a few rounds to make sure of the setup for feeding.
I load for a Beretta barrel which has a generous chamber and larger groove diameter.
I size the boolits .358. I am using an OAL of 1.130 and getting good feeding when operating manually.

[sigep1764]

140505
1.148 col 3.0gr Red Dot and 2.8gr Red Dot. Launching in one hour.

[straight-shooter]

My H&K VP9 has a somewhat tight chamber compared to my other 9mm's. I just tuned 50 rds tailored to it and the feeding is good and of course it also hand cycles through my looser chambered 9's.

Here is what I'm going to go test once I have a chance.

NOE 358 155 sized to .357 after Powder Coat
Hodgdon CFE Pistol 3.8 to 4.2 grains (increments of .1 - 10 rounds each)
Wolf SP Primer
1.130 OAL
.375 crimp

I'll be looking for a target around the 950 fps mark out of a 4" barrel which should give me about a 140 PF.

[sigep1764]

Back from the range. 2.8 grains Red Dot was very soft shooting but grouped very well. 3 grains Red dot opened up a bit. I'm going to seat a little deeper and revisit both loads.

[straight-shooter]

Back from the range. 2.8 grains Red Dot was very soft shooting but grouped very well. 3 grains Red dot opened up a bit. I'm going to seat a little deeper and revisit both loads.

Thanks for the reply back and keep us updated as to your results :)

[sigep1764]

All right, second trip today. 100 rounds. 1.13 col, 2.8 grains Red Dot. Boolits dropped from mold at 151.1 grains. 21 feet.
140547

[straight-shooter]

All right, second trip today. 100 rounds. 1.13 col, 2.8 grains Red Dot. Boolits dropped from mold at 151.1 grains.
140547

Nice results! Just couldn't sleep on it huh ? LOL, I hear ya though. Things like that bug me too but it looks as if you have it nailed down! I'll have to wait till Friday to get my results.

[sigep1764]

Well, the whole point of buying the membership to the range was to be able to do stuff like this. It was 20 bucks a day for the range. So if I didn't have the test load dialed in, I had to wait til the next week to test any changes. Buhh, I want results now!!! Lol. Now that I can just walk in, grab a target, and ask for a lane, I can take a hundred rounds for a little fun or testing as much as I want.

[straight-shooter]

What did you size them to and did you get any leading ?

[sigep1764]

I always forget something!!! Sized to .358 and seated to the top of the sized portion of the boolit. No leading in the G19 or Kahr CW9. I think I'll be casting and practicing with this from now on. Recoil was very nice, even in the Kahr which can be snappy.

[tazman]

Those are good results. Keep up the good work. I am getting anxious to try mine out now.
I am sizing to the same diameter and using the same oal but with a different powder.
I hope my results equal yours.

[sigep1764]

What powder are you using? I'm pretty much stuck on red dot. I've got 12 pounds of the stuff. It just meters well in my sdb and is very economical in 9mm. I was using a lot of PB but can't find it anymore. Read it had been dicontinued. Anyway, I cast this first batch out of coww, I need to find some tin to mix with my pure before I really test the expansion.

[DR Owl Creek]

Great job! Thanks for posting.

Dave

[straight-shooter]

Usually a good source of tin is on Ebay.... just search stain glass solder. I usually get the 50/50 lead tin. As a general I found that 8 inches of the stuff is good per pound of lead to get 2%.

[sigep1764]

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[tazman]

What powder are you using? I'm pretty much stuck on red dot. I've got 12 pounds of the stuff. It just meters well in my sdb and is very economical in 9mm. I was using a lot of PB but can't find it anymore. Read it had been dicontinued. Anyway, I cast this first batch out of coww, I need to find some tin to mix with my pure before I really test the expansion.

I am loading with AA7 5.5grains for starting load. It functions my guns and shoots accurately.
According to the books, this is a light load but I get 900fps with it under 147-150 grain boolits and have used it successfully with 158 grain boolits. The data sheet says 6.3 grains max for 147 grain lead with up to 6.7 for +P loads.

I have used this load with excellent results with other similar weighted boolits in 9mm.
I guess Accurate Arms powders can be hard to find. I ran across some about a year ago and have been saving it for heavy 9mm boolits.

[sigep1764]

Nice. I wish I had a crony so I could see what speeds I'm getting. I don't want to hotrod anything, it would just be nice to know. Maybe in a month or two I'll break down and fork over some green, but right now I got to go to the metal recycler. Real nice guys here in stl. 50 cents a pound for wheel weights or range scrap and I get to do the picking. I always get all lead that way.

[straight-shooter]

I nailed down a nice load first trip out to the range today. I could try and list all the chrony results but I feel like the results I found in this one particular load are worthy of posting alone. If you try it I think you'll like it. I shot strings of 10 each from 3.8 to 4.2 grains of CFE Pistol and the 4.1 load won out.

Here are the specs

Glock 19 Gen 4

NOE 358 155 TC HP - powder coated & sized to .357 - Final bullet weight 151 grain
4.1gr CFE Pistol Powder
1.125 OAL
.375 Crimp
Wolf Primer

Chrony result

Weather 74 sunny
High Vel - 926
Low Vel - 905
ES - 21
SD - 6
PF - 138

I knew this was the chosen load before I even checked the chrono data. The recoil felt right and the brass was ejecting 3 feet at 4 o'clock. The rounds settled exactly where I was aiming as long as I did my part.

Target is of 10 rounds fired

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd56/straightshooter44/Targets/358155tc%20Target%20Custom_zpssh9dzkil.jpg

[DR Owl Creek]

I nailed down a nice load first trip out to the range today. I could try and list all the chrony results but I feel like the results I found in this one particular load are worthy of posting alone. If you try it I think you'll like it. I shot strings of 10 each from 3.8 to 4.2 grains of CFE Pistol and the 4.1 load won out.

Here are the specs

Glock 19 Gen 4

NOE 358 155 TC HP - powder coated & sized to .357 - Final bullet weight 151 grain
4.1gr CFE Pistol Powder
1.125 OAL
.375 Crimp
Wolf Primer

Chrony result

Weather 74 sunny
High Vel - 926
Low Vel - 905
ES - 21
SD - 6
PF - 138

I knew this was the chosen load before I even checked the chrono data. The recoil felt right and the brass was ejecting 3 feet at 4 o'clock. The rounds settled exactly where I was aiming as long as I did my part.

Target is of 10 rounds fired

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd56/straightshooter44/Targets/358155tc%20Target%20Custom_zpssh9dzkil.jpg


Outstanding! It looks like you've really got that one dialed in. Thanks for posting your results.

Dave

[tazman]

straight-shooter--I tried your CFE-Pistol load and it worked essentially the same as my AA7 load did.
140813This was shot at 10 yards-offhand-30 rounds.
The AA7 load shot as follows
140814It was also at 10 yards. offhand-30 rounds
I also shot a set of Longshot 4.5 grains that worked about the same as far as accuracy but felt a bit snappier.
Sorry--No chrono readings as I was indoors.
Gun was a Taurus PT92 with a Beretta barrel in it.

This next was with my revolver using 3.5 of Bullseye at 10 yards. I taper crimped it at the top of the sized area on the side of the boolit.
140815
For those of you who might want to use this boolit in your 38/357 I have only one thing to say---It works--well.
The only thing you have to watch for is if it will fit in your cylinder after loading. The OAL is a bit long for some cylinders. I was shooting it as a 38 special in my 357 mag revolver so there was no issue.

[sigep1764]

Looking good tazman! It looks like this boolit is a serious winner however you use it. This was my first group buy, first hollowpoint mold, and first NOE mold. It will not be my last.

[Handloader109]

You guys have helped me out a lot with this one. Got my mold yesterday and won't get to cast till next week. Really looks like a winner and looks to me like I now have data for most of my powder. Just have to decide which to use first.

[DR Owl Creek]

straight-shooter--I tried your CFE-Pistol load and it worked essentially the same as my AA7 load did.
140813This was shot at 10 yards-offhand-30 rounds.
The AA7 load shot as follows
140814It was also at 10 yards. offhand-30 rounds
I also shot a set of Longshot 4.5 grains that worked about the same as far as accuracy but felt a bit snappier.
Sorry--No chrono readings as I was indoors.
Gun was a Taurus PT92 with a Beretta barrel in it.

This next was with my revolver using 3.5 of Bullseye at 10 yards. I taper crimped it at the top of the sized area on the side of the boolit.
140815
For those of you who might want to use this boolit in your 38/357 I have only one thing to say---It works--well.
The only thing you have to watch for is if it will fit in your cylinder after loading. The OAL is a bit long for some cylinders. I was shooting it as a 38 special in my 357 mag revolver so there was no issue.



Tazman,

Really great job again! That 38 Spc load in particular was most impressive! Thanks for posting your results.

Dave

[straight-shooter]

Nice shootin' tazman! It's looking as if this boolit is a real winner! I'm happy to have got in on the group buy for sure.

[frnkeore]

Great shooting guys :)

I have a couple of questions for the guys shooting this bullet:

Has anyone tried it out to 25 yards yet?

I see two posted COAL's of 1.125 & 1.13. Can anyone load out longer than that?

Frank

[tazman]

Great shooting guys :)

I have a couple of questions for the guys shooting this bullet:

Has anyone tried it out to 25 yards yet?

I see two posted COAL's of 1.125 & 1.13. Can anyone load out longer than that?

Frank

Any tests I make at 25 yards would be of little value to anyone. My eyes don't work well beyond about 50 feet with open sights. My groups get large and don't reseble what they should be. It isn't the guns or ammunition. When some one with good eyes shoots my stuff, it works just fine at longer distances. I try to stay within my limitations.

As far as loading to a longer COAL, yes I can do that. I believe my gun will accept a cartridge with a full diameter boolit protruding that much in front of the case. I just didn't see the point in pushing it out that far. It feeds well at 1.130.
I can try some clear out to 1.159 if you would like. They will fit in my magazines and almost certainly fit in my gun. It will be several days before I can offer any results for you.

[frnkeore]

Tazman,
Thank you, very much. I only ask about the COAL because, I calculated that it could be chambered at close to the full 1.169 (depending on headspace) and I don't have a 9x19 to try it in. I have the mold, too but, got it to try in my 38 Super so, I can't verify that it will load out in the Luger.

Again, thank you,

Frank

[sigep1764]

I loaded a few to start at 1.14, but accuracy was not where I wanted it to be with powder charge range that I wanted to use. I set it a little deeper later in the day and accuracy increased to where I wanted it.

[straight-shooter]

With powder coat on the bullets, they won't go any longer than 1.135 and still pass the plunk test in any of my 9mm barrels.

[Handloader109]

Wow, ran my temp up a not higher than normal, got the mold hot and the bullets jumped off the pins. 200 in just a bit out of the 2cav mold. Again thanks for the load data!

[xacex]

With powder coat on the bullets, they won't go any longer than 1.135 and still pass the plunk test in any of my 9mm barrels.
Is that all the way to the taper or did you have to go into the taper a bit before crimping?

[tazman]

When I seat at 1.130 I am right even with the top of the drive band of the boolit just at the edge of the taper. Anything longer than 1.130 would show a little of the drive band above the case.
I am sizing at .358. A smaller diameter would make the drive band a bit longer.

[Handloader109]

With powder coat on the bullets, they won't go any longer than 1.135 and still pass the plunk test in any of my 9mm barrels.
Hey, straight shooter, are you esping the PC? I tumble coat and mine won't chamber at 1.125 or even at 1.10 (which will most probably be too short). The bullet hits probably 0.020 ahead of the case. If I seat plain at 1.125 it plunks fine. Argggh. My PPQ is a bit tighter than my 1911, but neither will work with my PC bullet.

[tazman]

Hey, straight shooter, are you esping the PC? I tumble coat and mine won't chamber at 1.125 or even at 1.10 (which will most probably be too short). The bullet hits probably 0.020 ahead of the case. If I seat plain at 1.125 it plunks fine. Argggh. My PPQ is a bit tighter than my 1911, but neither will work with my PC bullet.

I take it the coating makes the front drive band long enough that it won't chamber due to size.
With the tapered nose on this boolit, I don't think it will work very well with coatings that increase diameter unless you are willing to load it deep in the case. Unfortunately, coatings aren't what this boolit was designed for.
With regular lube or tumble lube it works just fine.

[straight-shooter]

Hey, straight shooter, are you esping the PC? I tumble coat and mine won't chamber at 1.125 or even at 1.10 (which will most probably be too short). The bullet hits probably 0.020 ahead of the case. If I seat plain at 1.125 it plunks fine. Argggh. My PPQ is a bit tighter than my 1911, but neither will work with my PC bullet.

I'm using the spray gun method which definitely distributes the PC evenly and not so thick like tumbling. I just loaded another 400 rds on the Dillon and they all plunk at 1.125 just fine and sized at .357

This is using the tightest chambered 9mm barrel I have, the H&K VP9

[tazman]

I'm using the spray gun method which definitely distributes the PC evenly and not so thick like tumbling. I just loaded another 400 rds on the Dillon and they all plunk at 1.125 just fine and sized at .357

This is using the tightest chambered 9mm barrel I have, the H&K VP9

This is undoubtedly correct. I have only used Dry tumble PC and it goes on thick. The ESP method should work just as straight-shooter said.

[Handloader109]

Thanks guys, yep, I loaded up a dozen to try using regular lube, didn't want to go as deep as a test dummy round made it appear I would.... I really don't want to buy any more equipment, guess I'll lube this round. It sure looks good

[kalison]

Taz, what are your bores slugged at? My M&P9 is .3555 and even my 686 SSR is .3555, I am planning on going with .358 for the ELCO design since .358 has been working in my 686 with the same bore... would there be any issues with going that route?

[tazman]

My bores slug at .358. I have used .358 in barrels that slug at .356(this was the size of my Taurus barrels before I switched them out) so I don't expect there would be a problem with a half thousandth smaller bore.
The only issue might be if the loaded round would not chamber. Some guns have tight chambers as well as tight bores.
I would make up a dummy round with a boolit sized at .358 and make sure it would chamber properly.

[kalison]

Thanks Taz!

Stopped by NOE and brought this home :)

142922

I'll be casting up a few to test chamber.

[minmax]

WAIT YOU STOPPED BY, You lucky dog you!!!

[kalison]

WAIT YOU STOPPED BY, You lucky dog you!!!

LOL

Not going to lie, I like being able to get my moulds directly from Al, but, my wallet.... Well....

[kalison]

Did about 100 of these tonight. They dropped at .3595" (extremely consistent I might add) and I sized them down to .358"

At .358" it will pass the plunk test in my M&P9 Full Size and Compact from 1.125" which I find acceptable. I found that at about 1.080" and shorter the case was swaging the base down, not that anyone would really seat this deep, but I like to experiment. I think, as noted already... 1.130" is going to be the sweet spot just before you start seating past the driving band.

Can't wait to try these out, they look mean!

I am pretty much limited to Bullseye and BE-86 so I will load some up and report back this weekend.

[tazman]

Looking forward to your results.

[psychbiker]

How do you guys warm this up on a hotplate? It doesnt sit flush. Aside from PID issues, I was getting sticking pins. Gonna try with the flat pins and see how that works, the 147 hp pins stick, mainly one cavity.

[sigep1764]

I took the hollowpoint pins out and polished them on the wheel with jewelers rouge. They drop easy after 2 or 3 fills. I sit the mold on top of the pot just above the lead for about 20 min.

[minmax]

Anyone working with this mold any more?

[tazman]

Yes. Just no new developments. I'm still using the loads I found that worked.

[harley45]

I'm just getting caught up on my holster work so I'm going to start soon as I have 4 9MMs to play with.

[sigep1764]

It's the only boolit Ive been shooting since I got the mold. It's already cast somewhere around 5000 boolits. 3000 of those were squirreled away for just in case.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I just recently got a brass 4cav RG of the Elco mold, im dying to try it but I haven't had the time yet. I will be coating these pretty jewels! Glad I got one, lookin like a great boolit and a versatile one at that.

[tazman]

This is actually one of the most boring boolits/molds I have. The mold consistently drops good boolits and the boolits shoot well in everything I have tried them in.

[harley45]

Has anyone tried this one in a 357 sig? Just curious.

[mkf350]

Has anyone tried this one in a 357 sig? Just curious.

I would like to know this as well..

[tazman]

There was some conversation about this in the original group buy discussion. I believe the verdict was that the nose is too long to work correctly in the 357 sig. I may well be wrong about that but it should be easy to check. Just go to the forum pages on NOE's web site and look in the group buy section and find that particular mold.

[kalison]

Wow, I am sorry. I forgot all about this thread!

I was going to report back my results, but I didnt...

I can tell you that my test rounds were accurate, my M&P 9 ate them without hesitation and they shot relatively soft. I wish I had more information.

I am going out to this weekend again, I'll bring back more information this time. Chrono results and some targets.

Mine were sized to .358, backed by 4.0gr of BE-86 and seated to 1.117.

[Intel6]

I didn't get the HP version but my regular version has been working well. I got this mould for heavy bullets for my S&W 929 8 shot 9mm revolver. I use a slightly softer lead and get close to 160 gr. bullets (what I wanted) but after doing that I also tried them in some autos and they were great. I coated them with Bronze 500 Hi Tek coat and sized them to .358"

In the pic below you can see the bullet loaded in 9mm cases and clipped for the revolver, loaded in nickel cases for the autos and then the bullet just by itself:


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9mm_ELCO.jpg

[jmort]

I use them in both 9mm revolvers and semi-autos. Great subsonic penetrator and problem solver.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I did finally get to pour some of these jewels a little while back, lovely mold and end product!

[tazman]

I didn't get the HP version but my regular version has been working well. I got this mould for heavy bullets for my S&W 929 8 shot 9mm revolver. I use a slightly softer lead and get close to 160 gr. bullets (what I wanted) but after doing that I also tried them in some autos and they were great. I coated them with Bronze 500 Hi Tek coat and sized them to .358"

In the pic below you can see the bullet loaded in 9mm cases and clipped for the revolver, loaded in nickel cases for the autos and then the bullet just by itself:


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9mm_ELCO.jpg

Those are some great looking boolits. I bet they would trick someone into thinking they were full metal jacket at just a glance.
I have been considering the 929. I don't want to drop the big buck without some better info on the gun. How does yours perform, handling and accuracy wise?

[Beef15]

Wow, I am sorry. I forgot all about this thread!

I was going to report back my results, but I didnt...

I can tell you that my test rounds were accurate, my M&P 9 ate them without hesitation and they shot relatively soft. I wish I had more information.

I am going out to this weekend again, I'll bring back more information this time. Chrono results and some targets.

Mine were sized to .358, backed by 4.0gr of BE-86 and seated to 1.117.

What kinda groups at what distance? Didn't you mention trying Bullseye with them too?

I just ordered the mold after mulling it over ever since the group buy, things were a little tight then...

Anyway, I have both powders, generally I prefer faster with the heavies, but then I've been sitting on that BE-86 for a year or more and haven't loaded a thing with it.

[Handloader109]

I loaded up a few the other day after finishing up my last pound of Longshot. Pulled out the 4 pound jug of 700X that I have and loaded up a half dozen at 2.6, 2.7 and 3.0gr. Bee's liquid lube used. 1.125 oal. Plunks fine in my glock and my two 1911s. I started with the 2.6gr and it shot well for accuracy, but 2 tumbled. The 2.7was great, accurate, and so soft. 3.0gr was about the same, but a hair more snappy, still way soft. Going to load up a box or so at 2.7gr and go have some fun..

[timotab]

It's been great in my BHP.
OAL 1.135
2.8 GR. Titegroup
Sized 0.357
Lubed with BAC

[Boolseye]

Joining the ELCO club. Looking forward to some 9mm heavies. Still wondering whether they're gonna work for me in .357 SIG, haven't yet read anything definitive. Guess I'll find out for myself.

[tazman]

I haven't heard any reports about their use in the 357 Sig either. Might be something in the forum at NOE about it because it was mentioned when we did the group buy. I think it is a bit long in the nose for the 357 Sig but i am not sure.

[dragon813gt]

Pretty sure it will not work. Bullets, almost, need to be designed specifically for the 357 to get them to work. Some designs will work in multiple cartridges but they are ones w/ short noses.

[Valley-Shooter]

I'm a little late to the game here.
I bought my mould last summer and I casted a couple hundred bullets with it. I sized them and let them sit until 2 weeks ago.

I loaded them up with Ramshot Silhouette.
COL is 1.115 inch

I'm shooting a Glock 22 with a 9 mm conversion barrel.
Sized to .356 with Magma Green lube.
3.9 grains 848 fps
4.1 grains 881 fps
4.3 grains 924 fps
4.5 grains 950 fps

Every thing worked well.
I didn't like the accuracy I got. I'm going to try again with bullets sized to .357, I'll also try Hodgson Universal.

[sigep1764]

Red Dot and Promo have worked well for me, but the key for me was playing with seating depth. I do size mine to 358. My CZ slugged 356 and both glocks slugged 355. At 1.11 to 1.12 with 2.8 grains of Red Dot, i can get a hundred rounds into a hole the size of a fist at 30 feet with any of the pistols. Settle on a diameter that gives no leading, then change the charge and seating depth for your gun. Magma green ive never used. Lyman SuperMoly has worked for me but it does seem to be dirtier. Im ordering some Tac X in the near future to try.

[Boolseye]

Boolit DOES work in .357 SIG, I'm happy to report.
I load to 1.145 and using starting 147 grain data.

[sigep1764]

How fast you pushing it in 357 sig?

[Boolseye]

I haven't pushed it too hard, 6.5 grains of 800x and 4.5 gr. 231. Like a really hot 9mm.

[Beetmagnet]

Heads up...There's more of these available on the Noe shop. He was out of these for a while and now they are in stock.

[tazman]

If you want a heavy boolit for 9mm, go for it. It is a great boolit.
The hollow point drops at 147 grains with my alloy(range scrap).

[BarryinIN]

Has anyone tried this in the .38 Super?

[tazman]

Has anyone tried this in the .38 Super?

That was talked about during the design stage. The nose is a little long for a 357 Sig but it should work fine in the 38 super. The nose length is almost perfect for it.
You would be seating at near max length.

[sigep1764]

155 gr flat nose in 38 super would have some knock down power for plates and bowling pins. Nice and hot.

[asmith80]

Loaded up a dummy round after casting up my first batch of these little suckers. Hope they shoot half as good as they look.

I had to load the dummy to 1.12 OAL to get it to plunk on the five 9mms I have. Does that sound too short? These things are a good bit taller than the 124gr. RN I have been using, and I'm wondering if that's going to take up too much space in the case

[tazman]

If you go back through the thread, you will find you are right in the middle of the range everyone seems to be using. I use slightly longer for my Beretta and others use slightly shorter for their pistols.
You should be fine with your OAL.
Due to the design, there is more boolit weight in the nose and less boolit in the case. I think case capacity will be close to the same for the 2 boolits mentioned. You will need to either use less powder or a slower powder due to the increase in boolit weight in any case.

[asmith80]

Nevermind, looks like a lot of people are getting good results seeing around 1.13-1.12

[asmith80]

So I've been doing some random tests with the 100 or so I've loaded up. I'm still a little concerned about how deep I'm having to seat these to get reliable plunks. Some are around 1.12 OAL, others at 1.10 or even 1.07. I am using DT powder coat with these, and I realize that's probably the biggest issue, right there.

Has anybody tried using Hi Tek on these? With it being a much thinner coating I'm thinking it would eliminate a lot of the seating issues

[tazman]

I tumble lube these and can seat them to a longer OAL than you need. Since the nose is tapered instead of stepped, powder coating them makes the need to be seated deeper.
I really don't think the relatively small difference(.050) is going to make much difference from a performance standpoint. You may need to reduce your charge slightly but that should be the extent of it.
I have never used Hi Tek myself, but if it is a thinner coating, that would help with your issue.

[asmith80]

From what I understand, Hi Tek should only add about .002 to the size of the bullet, and if it's done right it's a very even and thin coating. I think a big part of my seating issue is how uneven and thick (almost .008 to some of my bullets) the PC is

Thanks for the info, I can't wait to get these out to the range.

[jmort]

"Hi Tek should only add about .002 to the size of the bullet..."

I doubt it. PC will add .002" but Hi Tek will be less, much less.

[asmith80]

Oh, you're right. I needed to add another zero:mrgreen:

[Intel6]

Has anybody tried using Hi Tek on these? With it being a much thinner coating I'm thinking it would eliminate a lot of the seating issues

Yes, see post #92

Neal in AZ

[asmith80]

Nice! How far out have you been able to load them on your semi autos?

[Intel6]

Nice! How far out have you been able to load them on your semi autos?

1.145" for the auto and 1.150" for the revolver. I have shot the auto load in a few different Glocks and a Keltec 9mm carbine that uses Glock mags. I haven't tried it in anything else.

Neal in AZ

[asmith80]

So I've done a little testing with powder coating and Hi Tek coating these boolits. My big concern as I mentioned earlier in the thread was that with powder coating these, I was having to seating them fairly short to get reliable plunks in my test pistol (CZ 75 SP-01, with a throated barrel). Not only that, but due to the inconsistencies of the powder coating (some were lumpy, and splotchy, while others had a more uniform coat) I couldn't reliably set my seater die to a specific depth and trust that all the rounds would chamber nicely. Note that I was not using the dry hand tumble with BBs method of coating with the powder coat. I was using an old vibratory tumbler with some powder coat and the boolits in it, which overall produces a more uniform and thin application of the powder coat. Even still, there were too many variables with the coating.

Since Intel6 had success using Hi Tek I decided to try some out. I got a 7.5 oz tub of the Kryptonite Green powder, mixed it up and coated around 200 of these with it.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/adamjsmith80/IMG_20170721_113713313_zps41its4ys.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/adamjsmith80/media/IMG_20170721_113713313_zps41its4ys.jpg.html)

A quick note about using Hi Tek vs. powder coat in general: it's a lot easier and faster once you figure out your process and measure out everything you'll need. I was a little scared I'd do it wrong, but I followed the instructions (which were very clear) and in about the same amount of time as it takes me to do a batch of bullets with powder coat (I was able to apply 1 coat, size and apply a second coat of Hi Tek in about 20 min. And that was with first time learning curve, next time should be faster. I was taking around the same amount of time to vibrate, pick out, bake, and size a batch of powder coated bullets)I was able to get all my bullets processed and ready to load with the Hi-Tek.

In the end, the Hi Tek came out more uniform and thinner than the powder coat. I measured the boolits after the second coat and on average the Hi Tek only added about .0005" to the size of the boolit. Many were less. With the powder coat, it was adding .004" on average and even though I sized them after, the real issue was how much coating was on the last taper before the nose of the boolit.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/adamjsmith80/IMG_20170721_113633673_zpswwovtthe.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/adamjsmith80/media/IMG_20170721_113633673_zpswwovtthe.jpg.html)

It's a little hard to tell in the picture, but the boolit on the left is lumpier and less evenly coated than the one on the right. And if some of those lumps are in the wrong spot, you could have problems chambering that round.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/adamjsmith80/IMG_20170721_113657011_zpsa05dudel.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/adamjsmith80/media/IMG_20170721_113657011_zpsa05dudel.jpg.html)

So here are the two loaded up in dummy rounds. The powder coated boolit is loaded to 1.10" OAL, which seemed to be the length that allowed for the least problems with chambering. Even still, I had a few the did not want to plunk, but I wasn't willing to go shorter for fear of causing some big problems.

The Hi Tek boolit was loaded out to 1.14" OAL and every one I loaded to that length (all 200 of the ones from above) had no problems passing the plunk and spin test.

So was that .04" worth it? I feel like it was. Not only does that free up more space in the case which is a big benefit with these big, long boolits, it's also closer to the rifling, and way more consistent in loading. I don't feel like I have to test each and every one of the Hi Tek boolits to make sure they'll chamber correctly which will speed up loading. The powder coating can be done, but the Hi Tek coating gives much better results.

Plus they're prettier :mrgreen:

[tazman]

That looks like a really nice setup for that boolit. Looks like it will load consistently for you and should shoot every bit a good as they look.
I think you have found your system.
I ran 50 of that boolit through my 1911 9mm today and they shot well. I don't use powder coat or HiTec but they still shoot well for me with tumble lube.

[asmith80]

I shoot a few today, trying to work up a couple good lots with different powders. I really like how these shoot. I'm thinking my other 9mm mold may be gathering dust in the near future

[Beef15]

Really is a great bullet. I'm lobbing solids for USPSA, 2.7gr of RedDot @ 1.135 makes minor, groups around 3.5" at 25yds, easy recoil. Had to seat about a hundreth deeper for PC and accuracy decreased slightly.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

[Intel6]

Those look great, glad to see you are having success. I just recently got some Kryptonite Green also and did a batch of these in that color. I also really like this bullet. I got it mainly for shooting in my 9mm revolver but I also found they shoot great in my autos. I am extremely happy with this as my heavy 9mm.

[jmort]

Not sure you have perfected your PC technique. Most report about an .002" increase, you are at twice that. Regardless, the Hi Tek bullets look really good. It is a great bullet. Glad I got in on that one.

[marlin39a]

I'm re-opening this thread on the NOE 158-155-ELCO. I just ordered my 3 cavity, and it has been shipped. I plan on sizing .357 in my Lyman 450, lubed with Carnauba Red. I will try Longshot, and HP-38. I have long favored the Hornady 147 XTP, and researched other heavies before going for this. Any updates out there on this boolit?

[sigep1764]

219601

Got 6000 of them loaded up. Thats my update!!!

[tazman]

It still works fine for me. I use it in the hollow point version where it drops at 147 grains for me.
I am using different powders but the ones you mention should work fine.

[sigep1764]

It still works fine for me. I use it in the hollow point version where it drops at 147 grains for me.
I am using different powders but the ones you mention should work fine.

Hey Taz, what powders are you using? Im still using 2.8grains of Red Dot/Promo. Mine drop at 151grains with water dropped wheel weight or 150 with range scrap plus 2% tin.

[marlin39a]

Thanks Tazman, I see you wet in on this boolit from inception. Great to see sigep1764 still happy with his Red Dot load. I will try that as well.

[jmort]

Check out post #19

[tazman]

Hey Taz, what powders are you using? Im still using 2.8grains of Red Dot/Promo. Mine drop at 151grains with water dropped wheel weight or 150 with range scrap plus 2% tin.

Mine drops at 147 grains in hollow point configuration using range scrap. Just about any powder combination listed for 147 grain boolits will work. I have been using moderate loads of AA7, CFE Pistol and Bullseye. I am considering trying longshot and 231 but haven't gotten it done yet.

[marlin39a]

I cast about 20 lbs today with my new 3 cavity mold. I'll let them sit a week, then size .357. They weigh .3545 - 355. I can't wait to send them down range.

[tazman]

I cast about 20 lbs today with my new 3 cavity mold. I'll let them sit a week, then size .357. They weigh .3545 - 355. I can't wait to send them down range.

Good luck and I think you will enjoy them.

[sigep1764]

I cast about 20 lbs today with my new 3 cavity mold. I'll let them sit a week, then size .357. They weigh .3545 - 355. I can't wait to send them down range.
Im sorry, that looks like a diameter measurement you quoted. What are they weighing for you? Are you casting the solid flat point or the Hollowpoint?

[jmort]

It will be at 158 to 160 grains as a solid. I have grown to love heavy/subsonic in most everthing. This is a good combo bullet, .357 mag in addition to original intention of 9mm.
I remember all the work that the designer went through with a lot of comments from the peanut-gallery. That process has proven that the designer was a genius, if you are like me and like heavy subsonic bullets, especially this one, get a mold from NOE. This is a big step up from all the 147 grain 9mms out there. It works real good on both ends.

[asmith80]

I'm still liking this boolit. It knocks down poppers with authority, and with 3.1 gr. of Bullseye, shoots better than I can with very mild recoil.

[marlin39a]

I don't know how that slipped by. They weigh 154.5 - 155. Diameter is .3585. I will lube and size .357.

[sigep1764]

Size some 357 and some 358 if you can. The 358s gave more accuracy in my 2 glocks and cz75. But as I'm sure you know, every barrel and chamber is different.

[tazman]

Size some 357 and some 358 if you can. The 358s gave more accuracy in my 2 glocks and cz75. But as I'm sure you know, every barrel and chamber is different.

This is very true. My Beretta 92fs barrrels like .358 and will chamber up to .360. My Springfield Armory Range Officer pistols in 9mm will shave thin circles of lead off the sides of the boolit and jam if they are sized larger than .357. They prefer .356 for best accuracy.
You have to find out what your pistol likes.

[marlin39a]

Well, I've found a good load. HP-38 - 3.1 grains. WSP Magnum primer. (I have a good supply, and need to get using them) 1.120 OAL is working, and I get no leading. I'll need to chronograph. Brass comes out as clean as it went in.