Don't want a kaboom

[brassrat]

Sorry my question involves XTPs but at least I didn't go all bustin into Char-gars advice thread. So I am feeling a little scared of some rounds I made today. My Ruger 9mm usually gets fed .355 booletts, but I made some .357 XTPs (125gr). I tried stuffing a boolett down the barrel, to mic it, and it was very tough to do. It was pretty dirty thou, I later found. I did oil it though. I really didn't get a measurement. Next I cleaned it and a swaged 125gr. Sierra .355 went thru very easily. I am concerned about the pressures with this load of Unique at 5.5 gr. There seems to be little interweb problems with the extra .002 even with a jacket. It also appears that many SR9-Cs have a larger bore. Any thoughts from the experienced fellows out there? I'm only loading a few years. Thanks for the read and any ideas:grin:

[Cowboy_Dan]

If you haven't yet, slug the barrel. I don't load 9mm, so I don't know how stout the load is. But, if it is mild and the barrel is somewhat oversize, they would probably be fine.

[Mauser48]

Try them at .355 and see how they do. If they don't do to great go to .356 or .357. I wouldn't be too worried about them but I would try the smaller ones first just because they might shoot fine and its less wear on the bore. The .355s will expand too. At least you wont how to worry about leading with the jacketed bullets so no need to start big. I couldn't help you with the powder charge because I don't have any experience with unique or 9mm but the rest is general knowledge.

[jcren]

This is not a max charge of unique, and I wouldn't suspect any problems as long as the bore is a true .355+. Slug the barrel with a soft lead slug, fishing "egg" sinkers are a good source and get a true measurement before going any further. Alliant list 5.8 and Reloadammo.com list 6 grains so you should be fine.

[rsrocket1]

My M&P 9mm FS barrel and Shield 9 barrel slugged at 0.3545" with the throat at .356" so you might have trouble chambering the bullet if any of that 0.357" part sits above the case rim. FMJ's that big will provide a bit more resistance to the barrel rifling and swaging into that tight bore so be sure you start at the low end of the loads. Personally, I'd pull those bullets and simply get some real 9mm bullets. Save the .357's for your revolver.

[country gent]

It would be prudent to start out at a very mild charge and work up to where you want to be a couple tenths at a time. oversized bullets can boost pressures quickly depending on bore size and throat. Starting out mid to upper level is asking for a problem when components dont match up. To give refrence there is a reason sierra makes .222 dia bullets for the early hornets and a few bees that used 22 rimfire barrels or the old bore size rather than feeding them .224 dia bullets. If you cant find published data for .357 XTPs with powder charge for 9mm your in a gray area and need to becarefull and work the load up from starting or a little lower to where you want to be.

[DrCaveman]

Sorry for my confusion...

You made .357" xtp's? How do you do that?

You (tried to) slug the barrel with a .357" copper jacketed boolit? I havent come across any procedures that utilize a jacketed boolit for bore slugging. Use lead, preferably soft lead. Copper has springback that will not proide any useful reading.

People dont usually use over-sized copper slugs in their guns, there is no need since the jacket doesnt shed lead due to gas cutting. Just use the standard diameter bullet for that cartridge, and you will not get leading and probably good accuracy.

However, you will get copper fouling (on par with factory loads) and a bit shortened barrel life (why we here use cast lead boolits)

Not sure if i am missing some info, or if the previous posters are...

Be safe!

[brassrat]

As to these rounds not chambering, they didn't, until I rotated the turret ( on 1st round) and used my unused Factory Crimp Die. It worked great and it plopped right in.

[brassrat]

I loaded a couple dozen 9mms with .357 XTP bullets. I tried slugging the bore with a 9mm boolett that seemed, maybe oversized. It was a commercial, popular brand. Like I said, the bore was dirty. Then I slugged again with a soft .355 boollet that almost fell thru with little pressure

[mongoose33]

Sorry my question involves XTPs but at least I didn't go all bustin into Char-gars advice thread. So I am feeling a little scared of some rounds I made today. My Ruger 9mm usually gets fed .355 booletts, but I made some .357 XTPs (125gr). I tried stuffing a boolett down the barrel, to mic it, and it was very tough to do. It was pretty dirty thou, I later found. I did oil it though. I really didn't get a measurement. Next I cleaned it and a swaged 125gr. Sierra .355 went thru very easily. I am concerned about the pressures with this load of Unique at 5.5 gr. There seems to be little interweb problems with the extra .002 even with a jacket. It also appears that many SR9-Cs have a larger bore. Any thoughts from the experienced fellows out there? I'm only loading a few years. Thanks for the read and any ideas:grin:

I have to ask this this question: why?

Those are bullets made for .38 special/.357 magnum. Unless you have a ton of them for cheap, why would you even consider using them in a 9mm?

On the Midway site, check out the reviews:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/490514/hornady-xtp-bullets-38-caliber-357-diameter-125-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding

There are a couple who claim they use them 9mm, but then, that's not your gun, with your bore, using your powder charges.

How about buying a revolver that takes .38 special/.357 magnum and shooting them in that?

[runfiverun]

sigh.
shooting an oversized bullet will raise your chamber pressure.
it won't be a huge dramatic gun exploding change.
it will be something on the order of 1,000 psi.
the problem you have here is the xtp needs to be seated deeper than most other jacketed bullets and that for sure will raise pressures in the 9mm case.

be prudent in your starting load and work up from there.

[brassrat]

This is my starting load. It will be my ending load too, if accurate. I have plenty of 9mm bullets such as the new 1000 rds of swaged stuff that just fell thru the barrel and didn't shoot too well, Saturday. I also have a few boxes of 9mm XTPs at 147 gr. These will seat deeper than my .38 bullets. I have tried a few and will try more, they seemed Ok. The talk on the Net is saying great accuracy especially with Rugers and Berettas, and no problems with my little test. I guess I will retry a bore slugging again.


I took a pic, my 125 gr. on left and proper 147 gr for 9mm on right. The marks show the seating depths--wow

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/g5uis23ft5h/th_IMG_0744_zpsb9oxlnvg.jpg (http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/g5uis23ft5h/media/IMG_0744_zpsb9oxlnvg.jpg.html)

[Harter66]

By start loads they meant the bottom of the load window . My 9mm will all but plop an unsized 124-5 gr bullet from any of 4 Lee moulds but it shoots better sized to 357.
When I work up an auto load ,for example the book shows 3.8 -5.3,I through out the bottom load start at 3.9,4.1,4.3,4.5,4.7,4.9 and 5.1 @ 5 rounds . I shoot each set of 5 for groups and when desired Chrony. The 9 above make belly button primers at 4.3 but has FTF/E at 3.8 it produced best groups at 4.0 so that's the load . You'll find that generally your best group is .2-.3 above reliable function. I do load for a 40 that takes a maximum load and at that the groups were still shrinking.

9mm often have grooves over .356 even Ruger . Start low with 5 rounds and step it up you may find that the 38/357 bullets are fine or they might not shoot for beans. I had a 357 that had a 356 bbl . It shot very well up to 357 loads ,not having a 9mm at that time but being given a box of 110 and 125 Gold Dots I found that those could be driven right to the maximum loads for correct 357 data with good accuracy. Based on that you may get great or dismal results with the 357 dia bullet in your 9mm.

[mongoose33]

By start loads they meant the bottom of the load window . My 9mm will all but plop an unsized 124-5 gr bullet from any of 4 Lee moulds but it shoots better sized to 357.
When I work up an auto load ,for example the book shows 3.8 -5.3,I through out the bottom load start at 3.9,4.1,4.3,4.5,4.7,4.9 and 5.1 @ 5 rounds . I shoot each set of 5 for groups and when desired Chrony. The 9 above make belly button primers at 4.3 but has FTF/E at 3.8 it produced best groups at 4.0 so that's the load . You'll find that generally your best group is .2-.3 above reliable function. I do load for a 40 that takes a maximum load and at that the groups were still shrinking.

9mm often have grooves over .356 even Ruger . Start low with 5 rounds and step it up you may find that the 38/357 bullets are fine or they might not shoot for beans. I had a 357 that had a 356 bbl . It shot very well up to 357 loads ,not having a 9mm at that time but being given a box of 110 and 125 Gold Dots I found that those could be driven right to the maximum loads for correct 357 data with good accuracy. Based on that you may get great or dismal results with the 357 dia bullet in your 9mm.

What I think a lot of people are missing here is that the Hornady XTP bullets are FMJ bullets--not cast. The difference can be seen readily in any reloading manual with similar weight bullets/boolits of FMJ and Cast versions. They aren't the same beast, and rarely take the same powder charge.

[Harter66]

Correct. I understood you are loading a JHP ,the Hornady XTP , for 38/357 . I was making the demonstration point that many 9mm are not .355 and readily except cast up to .360 . I also gave an example of a pistol that performed well up to a point and then it failed with jacketed and plated bullets . It did shoot very well with bullets intended for 380 and 9mm being 355-6 rather than 357-8. The point being that the 38/357 intended bullets might be fine and may even shoot better (read more accurate and faster on less powder) than those for 9mm . They could also run the pressures up rather unexpectedly having a potentially a jacketed bullet. 003 oversized .

I haven't checked my books so the numbers I gave were a basic example using approximate numbers as an example of ladder work up numbers and my method of short cutting to finding a working load for a given powder or bullet.

I just hate to see a guy waste parts putting loads together to find out that a load is not working out .

[brassrat]

Correct. I understood you are loading a JHP ,the Hornady XTP , for 38/357 . I was making the demonstration point that many 9mm are not .355 and readily except cast up to .360 . I also gave an example of a pistol that performed well up to a point and then it failed with jacketed and plated bullets . It did shoot very well with bullets intended for 380 and 9mm being 355-6 rather than 357-8. The point being that the 38/357 intended bullets might be fine and may even shoot better (read more accurate and faster on less powder) than those for 9mm . They could also run the pressures up rather unexpectedly having a potentially a jacketed bullet. 003 oversized .

I haven't checked my books so the numbers I gave were a basic example using approximate numbers as an example of ladder work up numbers and my method of short cutting to finding a working load for a given powder or bullet.

I just hate to see a guy waste parts putting loads together to find out that a load is not working out .

I am the guy loading .357 in a 9mm. I think everyone knows they're meant for a revolver. My barrel got reslugged by a gunsmith and he says its .355 which is not too oversized which what I was hoping for. at least for these rounds.

[DrCaveman]

Something still seems funny here. All i can add is that i can drive a .357" lead boolit through my 9mm, and it comes out at .356". Trying to hammer a copper jacketed bullet that is sized at .357" would be a frickin nightmare. In fact, a .355" copper jacketed bullet is a bitch to hammer through the barrel. One of these tips is soft, and conforms to the rifling (groove diameter). The other is hard as hell and is pretty well constricted by the bore diameter.

If you were discussing lead boolits, then yeah go for your oversized .357" rounds. XTPs oversized? I dont get it. Just cause a swaged lead .355" boolit is falling through the barrel doesnt mean a .355 or .356 copper bullet will shoot bad. I may have missed it...but did you try shooting any .355 or .356 copper bullets yet, or just jump straight to .357" because of the commercial swaged boolits falling through?

I think you may be applying apple wisdom for making orange juice.

If cost is a concern, then i have two words: start casting

[Hannibal]

Sir, I mean no disrespect to you, but I believe you could really benefit from a mentor. I tried to help you in your finning Lee mould thread, and now this. I'm a long ways off, and I'm far from an expert, but if no one else will help you, let me know in a PM and we'll see what we can work out. I'm only trying to help. No offense meant.

[brassrat]

quote.. My Ruger 9mm usually gets fed .355 booletts, but I made some .357 XTPs (125gr). I tried stuffing a boolett down the barrel, to mic it, and it was very tough to do. Dr Caveman, I meant that I made some rounds from some XTP .357 bullets. I next tried to use a lead, commercial, projectile, not an XTP bullet, to check my barrel. Next attempt to check things was done with another, different, lead, projectile that went thru easily. Sorry if I wasn't clear, it did read a little funny.

[DrCaveman]

Brassrat- thanks for the clarification, that makes much more sense. Commercial cast boolits are usually pretty hard, so bore slugging is difficult even with oil. As suggested above, egg sinkers are great because of the void down the middle and they are very soft lead to boot. But it seems you already got the slugging done so no matter

The cool thing about oversized cast boolits is that they will be swaged down by your steel barrel. I buy runfiverun's statement that psi is boosted by 1000 psi. For my jericho 941, the polygonal barrel tapers about .0015" from breech to muzzle, as best i can tell, i size .356" and water drop the boolits to make em hard. Accuracy is excellent with bullseye and ramshot competition near max loads. I dont like unique in my 9, it just didnt shoot that well

If you can miraculously get any sr4756, i worked up some very accurate, powerful loads with a pretty full case. Hs-6 and aa#7 are other good ones for full power loads

I still recommend against using oversized copper jacket bullets.

Good shootin to ya, be safe

[mdi]

No disrespect intended, but do yourself a favor and just use 9mm bullets (.355"-.356") in your 9mm pistols. At least until you gain enough experience to determine how many problems you are creating. Put the .357" bullets on a shelf, they'll still be there when you understand the relationship between the barrel and a jacketed bullet. Reload the .355"-.356" jacketed bullet using starting loads out of your manual(s), for mebbe a six month period (at least 1,000 rounds), and keep reading, reading, reading. If you want to shoot lead bullets, slug the barrel with a lead slug and size the lead bullets accordingly. (lots of info about the groove diameter vs. the bullet diameter floating around the forum).

Again, no offence intended, just slow down...

[brassrat]

I will just go back to airsoft, maybe its for the better.

[DrCaveman]

Hey man, dont beat yourself up. Read the thread thanking new members for their input, and take to heart the part about a "steep learning curve".

We were all ignorant at some point, and made mistakes in judgment due to incomplete undertanding of some "basics". The vast amount of information available on the web these days is probably as much a curse as it is a blessing. We can easily learn about techniques and results that are far beyond our level of expertise, and then misuse them because we didnt have all the background information and foundational experience.

I dont have very many years under my belt in the handloading game, but i can already look back at some of my old posts and wonder: why the hell did i think that? Or try that? If i could time travel, i would slap myself upside the head and say: you aint ready for that, boy!

Ultimately, i didnt get hurt or damage any guns, people, or equipment, and learned from the experiences. But we are living in a different time than days past, and people forget that sometimes.

I think a lot of responders here are still as confused as i was with the wording in your original post. Realize that a lot of people dont read a whole thread before they respond; of that, i am 100% sure. Maybe think of editing the original post if you want more helpful input.

Overall, i commend you for having the internal warning flag that compelled you to start this thread. That is a characteristic of a person who may have the right mindset for handloading in the long term.

Dont give up, i think you will do just fine.

[brassrat]

Well my undersized swaged 9mm bullet heads were loose and set back 1st time seeing this but the .357 went well.Ythanks for the input.


PS
I am sticking with these .357 bullets and an even warmer load of Unique. The increase shrunk the groups. This means that there is no need to open a large box of Noslers H.P.s that are in my 9 mm stash, :-)