The Wobbles...

[BCB]

I cast some 311041’s a few days ago out of WW’s…

I wanted to check the BHN of them so I had to put a check on it so it set solidly in my SAECO hardness tester…
(It tested SAECO 6 or a BHN of 9--SAECO indicates this to be the BHN of wheel weights)

As I turned the screw in on the tester, I noticed a slight wobble in the boolit as it spun. It then comes in contact with the needle and it is further turned until a reference mark on the tester is reached—BHN is then read. I unscrewed the nut and noticed the needle hole in the end of the boolit was not centered…
(For those not familiar with the SAECO tester, this may be gibberish)

I then rolled the boolit across the bench and there is a bit of a wobble in the very front of the boolit…

It is happening when I sized it for the check…

Any thoughts. I never had this happen before. But, I sized it without the LAM2 being warm and the lube warm also…

The 311041 is a rather long boolit and I wonder if it might be conducive to such deformation?...

I sure hope they all don’t do this as I cast about 250 of them…

Thanks…BCB

[RED333]

I had some of a diff mold than yours, but they were long 30 cal boolits.
Seems I opened mold to fast before the boolits had set and when I dropped them
into my catch pan the bent.
I use a LEE sizer die for sizing.
I had only cast about 100, I checked 20 or so and half were "bent", remelted all of them
and started over.

[Digital Dan]

Try putting a folded towel in the bottom of your catch pan.

[country gent]

Rather than a folded towel use a stack of towels in your catch pan. Bullets are soft when still hot from the mould and can be damaged easily bumping on others. When you get a nice pile and wanting to hit each other pick up top towel and set aside leaving the others in place this can be done quickly and easily allowing bullets to cool quicker and of to the side. Long bullets can bend if still to hot when mould is opened or if sizing requires to much force or if there is misalighnment in the lube sizer. why I like push thru sizers and pushing on the base.

[BCB]

I had some of a diff mold than yours, but they were long 30 cal boolits.
Seems I opened mold to fast before the boolits had set and when I dropped them
into my catch pan the bent.
I use a LEE sizer die for sizing.
I had only cast about 100, I checked 20 or so and half were "bent", remelted all of them
and started over.

I have the Lee push through dies also, but I put stick lube on my boolits. Do you use the Lee then lube them in a sizer like LAM2 or how do you apply the lube?...

I've used Alox, but it simply is too messy when doing a quantity of 250 or more. I also use it if I am shooting boolits "as cast"...

[44man]

Even so, a BHN of 9 is too soft to stand up to pushing. Takes some pressure to seat a check.
I take the boolit is for a 30-30, maybe a Marlin and is too soft for the shallow rifling anyway. Marlins, even the Ballard all have rifling .003" deep. Marlin Ballard's are a joke, they just reduced the number of lands and grooves. Micro Groove has more "GRIP."
Water drop the boolits. Did you mix stick on's into the WW's? Air cooled WW's should be 10 to 12 BHN. Water dropped will be from 18 to 22 BHN depending on your batch.

[bedbugbilly]

The nice thing about those "bent" ones is that you can shoot around corners with 'em!

I had the same problem with a .323 mold I borrowed for a long 8mm Mauser boolit. I finally figured out I was dropping them too soon from the mold. I learned from it but then went back to a much smaller grain boolit which shot much much better for me out of my rifle. I was going to shoot the long design "unsized" so the bent ones went back into the pot after checking each one. A good exercise in frustration . . . :-)

[RED333]

I have the Lee push through dies also, but I put stick lube on my boolits. Do you use the Lee then lube them in a sizer like LAM2 or how do you apply the lube?...

I've used Alox, but it simply is too messy when doing a quantity of 250 or more. I also use it if I am shooting boolits "as cast"...

I used to use Alox, now I powder coat, then size.

[wmitty]

If the alloy is too soft, the boolit is very likely being damaged in the lubrisizer. I'm running into the same thing with some 7mm soupcans I cast for a 7 x 57. I had water dropped these, but the alloy was very close to lead with no antimony, so no hardening took place. I'll throw in some wheelweight when I remelt the batch.

[largom]

You stated that you had cast a "few days ago" and seated gas checks and tested for hardness. Unless you water dropped your boolits were still soft. Air cooled boolits require up to 4 weeks to age harden after casting. You could have bent the boolits while sizing/seating gas checks. Also reason the boolits tested low on hardness.

Larry

[BCB]

I agree with them being bent during sizing, as I was casting using 2 molds and they definitely had time to cool in the mold before they were dropped on a folded towel. Yet, I have sized them in a week or so after casting on other occasions. Always something it seems...

So, this morning I ran 40 through a Lee push thru sizer as suggested earlier in this thread. I was going to do this, but Alox is so dang messy. I do use it, but only for small batches of certain boolits that I don't want to size at all...

I then ran them into my LAM2 apply the Carnauba Red to the lube grooves. They look very good. I will try a few today--maybe. This is simply too much work doing the sizing twice! But, the bunch that I cast will have time to age as I won't be shooting this T/C Super 14" 30-30 as often in the next couple of weeks...

I have attempted to attach a graph that converts the SAECO scale to BHN. They indicate the wheel weights are a BHN of 9 or a SAECO 6. I get right smack on the money when I check mine. As mentioned, after they age, they BHN might go up 1 point at best. I have yet been able to get the BHN's that many indicate for wheel weights they use. These are older weights as I got them from a guy who quit casting about a dozen years ago. And he had them long before that. They cast beautifully--I will miss them when the supply is done and I have to go to the ones I have acquired over the past 5-7 years...

A side note on the 30-30. As mentioned, I am shooting them from a T/C Super 14". I am using 35 grains of WC-860. Plenty of unburnt debris after each shot, the they stay in 1.25" at 100 yards. I put 5" diameter ballons filled with water at the 200 yard mark and it breaks them almost 100% of the time. Just a neat little rig to shoot. I have the holdovers well known and they are amazingly accurate. Beer cans are dead ~75% of the time at 150 yards. I am loading them for about $1.20 per box of 20--I can handle that!!!

(Just look at the attachment--It is upside down--sorry 'bout that!)

Thanks all...BCB

[popper]

I was loading some ACWW into 308w the other day, for an experiment. Sized & GC'd several weeks ago. Noticed the meplat had grown to the dia of the seater plug. Shooting results will be interesting.

[leadman]

I too have a Saeco hardness tester. Many people do not know it carries a lifetime warranty.

It will not read correctly if the boolit is wobbling. I suggest you test a boolit before you install the gas check.

I do recommend water quenching if you are going to speed these up at all. I have shot many soft boolits in my rifles and success doing it and if it is working to your satisfaction that is good.

[BCB]

I too have a Saeco hardness tester. Many people do not know it carries a lifetime warranty.

It will not read correctly if the boolit is wobbling. I suggest you test a boolit before you install the gas check.

I do recommend water quenching if you are going to speed these up at all. I have shot many soft boolits in my rifles and success doing it and if it is working to your satisfaction that is good.

Yep, you are correct. The needle must hit center to put pressure directly with the axis of the boolit...

I did have actually quite a few that I sized and lubed in the LAM2 that were not "bent". Those I checked the hardness and the needle hit dead center in the meplat...

I really don't think I will speed them up for use in my T/C--it is just fun shooting out to 200 yards hitting balloons or waiting for the "ting" when it hits my ground-hog sized steel silhouette...

I do shoot that same boolit using 35 grains of WC-852 in my Model 94 Winchesters at a velocity of 1755 and I have taken several white-tailed deer at distances up to 60 yards--most were in the 40 yard ballpark...

Just a fun caliber and boolit combo. Gotta love those surplus powder...

One thing a bit wrong with the SAECO tester is the fact that there is not a "step" in it for .278" or .284" boolits so they sort of sloop around. I had Buckshot make me an insert to set in the .308" step and it is sized to accept the .278" and .284" boolits and allow them to line up with the needle much easier...

Thanks...BCB

[BCB]

Just another quick post showing the point to which the needle on the SAECO tester hit the meplat—about as centered as one could get so I do think the SAECO reading of 6 or BHN of 9 is correct…

Also, a couple of pics (not great quality as my camera optics are antiquated) of the boolits that were used on a couple of deer. They were cast from pure lead and then hollow-pointed with a Forester…

And so it goes with the 311041…

BCB

[44man]

I do not want to recover a boolit in deer. Where I hunt I want two holes.

[rking22]

Me too, so thick, in some places, I can lose one if he goes 25 yards without a bood trail!
Now I gotta go an check my stuff for bent boolits :)

[BCB]

Now wait a minute!!! Give ol’ BCB a break…

Did I say I recovered those boolits inside of the deer?...

Nope, they were found outside of the deer in the ground…

I hunt, at times from a highwall and am shooting down to the spoil (overburden) that has been removed from the old abandoned pit area. Coal country in Western Pennsylvania. I own the property and it is a good place to catch a deer sneaking across the top of the spoil. I am shooting downward at about a 30 to 40 degree angle and the 311041’s do pass through the deer…

Now then, the two boolits I show were recovered in the ground. One was a pure headshot and there was no tracking required. The other was a shot into the front shoulder and the boolit hit a lung and heart. The deer walked maybe 50 yards and dropped. No problem watching her…

I find the boolits by throwing a nickel down in the area where the deer was shot. It drops through the snow and remains near the area of impact. Then in the late spring when the snow is gone, I go there with a metal detector and find the nickel and then scan the area and find the boolit. Just a little bit of excitement to see if I can find the boolit…

Deer I have shot with the Blackhawk 45 Colt (45-270-SAA) or the Super Redhawk 44 Magnum (429650) directly in the front shoulder from a level area, forget the boolit, it is gone—straight through. Yet, I guess where I hunt, I can see for a hundred yards or so and most deer succumb in less distance than that, as that certainly is my goal…

During my jacketed bullet days and the 270 Winchester, I never found a bullet. And the damage was unbelievable to the exiting shoulder…

Oh well…

Good-luck…BCB

[44man]

OK, you get a break! :kidding:
You are doing as good as it gets.
I agree about the .270, my friend uses one and they make a mess, so did my .280 so I sold it.
I now use only revolvers.