Listen up Newbies - No Kaboom reloading the Geezer way

[Char-Gar]

Internet gun boards are replete with threads about blow up firearms and injured body parts these days, often with graphic pictures. Discussion abounds about metallurgy, design, an manufacturing tolerances etc, etc, etc., when in reality with about a 98% certainty, it was too much of the right or wrong powder that did the deed. Reloading can be destructive to the firearm and your body if the eye is not kept on the ball.

On such a recent thread, it was remarked that everybody makes mistakes and stuff like this was just part of the reloading game. I was quick to dispute that, saying along the way, that don't load over pressure rounds and have not done so in 57 years of reloading. In rapid succession, I was called arrogant, condescending and even someone who was not telling the truth. It seem inconceivable to some that a person could reload over a very long time and not blow up a firearm.

I was reloading a batch of 38 Specials today and thought I would take a few pics and add a few comments and notes to show how I do "no kaboom" reloading. Before you say it, yes, I know this is to slow and labor intensive for most folks these days, but this is the way I have been doing it for a very long time and have been kaboomless. No firearms has ever been damaged in the least now has anybody had even a slight injury. Well, I did trip over my own feet at the range once time and turn an ankle, but that was not reloading related. Here is now I do it;

1. Cases are sized, primed and mouth expanded and place upside down in a loading block.

2. My powder measure is checked for the correct charge each time I begin. I used fixed rotor measures or a battery of adjustable Lyman 55s, each set up for one charge. Even so I check the measure each time I use it.

3. I only have on powder out and I read the container aloud before I pour it in the measure. Murphy the shop cat does not seem to notice or be bothered by it.

4. I remove an upside down case from the block and look inside to make sure it is empty.

5. I charge the case with the measure.

6. I look inside the case again to make certain it has a powder charge of correct height.

7. I place a bullet into the case and start it by hand, replaced it in the block before I pick up another upside down case and repeat steps 4 - 6.

8. I then take the blocks with the charged cases and started bullets to the reloading press, where the bullets are seated and the case mouth crimped.

There will be no under or over pressure rounds in the batch..without exception, period!

Additional notes:

I much prefer a Lyman two step expander because it enable me to start the bullet and have it say in the case, in good alignment. I never shave lead from the bullet when seating by doing this.

This batch of cases are 1978 Lake City USGI 38 Special cases. I have about 5,000 of them. They are long lasting. I also have some WCC USGI brass and they are of lesser quality, but still usable. I also have some R-P USGI 38 Special brass, but they are junk. I load them once and eject them into a scrap bucket for recycling. I trim each case to a uniform length the first time I use it.

The bullets in the pictured reloads are good ol Lyman 358311 RN. I load this over 3/Bullseye for range use only. This is not a top end load, but I have about a dozen 38 Special handguns, some as old as 100 years and this pressure load will keep them shooting for several lifetimes more. When I see this RN bullet in a 38 Special case, I know what the powder charge is. This load will shoot every bit as well as a match wadcutter load, as least as far as I can determine, by holding the handgun in my hand and shooting at paper targets. I do load other bullets with heavier powder charges for other purposes.

I always try several loaded and crimped rounds into the cylinder of several sixguns (Colt and Smith and Wesson) before I load the batch. This prevents me from having to break down loads because they are over crimped and won't chamber properly. Best to take the time now, and not later after they are all done.

There is a VERY GOOD reason why the use of reloaded/handloaded ammo voids the warrantee on all firearms made. The manufactures know that anything less that total concentration and care can result in a damaged firearm and/or shooter. This is called a clue about how dangerous handloading can be when done improperly.

Now the pics;

139742

[Pb2au]

Great post Char. Many thanks for it.
Take heed here friends, many lessons were just laid at your feet.

[jhalcott]

I've been reloading for OVER 50 years(I am 70) and haven't blown up a gun yet! I've had a few "sticky" ejections though. Mostly from top end loads from rifle and pistol. The first sticky ends that test! Knock on wood that I haven't jinxed myself.

[tryNto]

Great post Char. Many thanks for it.
Take heed here friends, many lessons were just laid at your feet.

I have to agree, have always enjoyed and learned from your posts.

Thank you

Those nay-sayers are just jealous. keep up the good work.

[mold maker]

I too, have never (in over 50 years) charged a case with the wrong powder or an over/under charge. As far as I know neither has anyone I taught.
It's called paying attention, like your life depends on it, because it literally does. Maybe even twice.
In a defensive situation, the gun doesn't pick and choose who the bad guy is. You may have already made that choice at the bench without looking. Would be a shame to read that when you had to defend yourself, the gun kaboomed, and the bad guy walked away, leaving you dead or maimed from a wrong load.

[dudel]

Good advice. Similar to how I load when using the RockChucker. Further, I would advise staying away from maximum loads till you have some experience under your belt, and equipment you can trust (weapons, measures, scales and calipers).

[Eddie2002]

Great post, being careful doesn't take that long and is well worth the effort. I reload on a single stage press and only process 10-12 pistol or rifle rounds at a time, slow but gives time to double check as I go along. One powder on the bench and double check the load as I pour.

[littlejack]

Great advice.
Was taught reloading when I was 14. WOW! that long ago. I am now 65+. So far no KA-BOOMS, BUT, I have caught things that I should not have happened at the reloading table. I was taught by a friend of the family who had years of experience reloading, and years of competitive shooting (with his reloads).
One MUST constantly be on their guard from themselves. If one gets complacent and lax, and starts to deviate from their normal sequence that has proven safe and effective, one can probably be assured that sooner or later there will be a problem to say the least.
It would be who of all of the new reloaders to get a "system" that works for them that it fool proof, and is easy to duplicate, and stick with it. And for the more experienced reloaders to continue with their proven (to them) system.
Jack

[mongoose33]

I do something similar when loading w/ the single stage (not the progressive). I start with an empty loading tray, and a small container of cases under or next to the measure. I pick one up, charge it from the powder measure, and only then does it go into the loading tray. I never put empty cases in a loading tray. Ever.

On the progressive, I use the RCBS Lockout Die to assess powder levels with each case; if the amount is not very close to normal, the Lockout Die locks up the press. I'm not ever loading at max, so I have room for error. Here's some cases with corks driven down to simulate different powder levels; the one in the middle is correct, the others will lock up the press.

139761

Unfortunately, I can't say I've never had a gun blow up in my hand, because I have. To this day I don't know why. The only thing that made any sense was that the case had a structural failure. Blew out the extractor of my LC9, and I was unhurt. Other than my pride, that is.

Here's the case:

139763

[Dragonheart]

Good post. I would like to add that I check my case length and since I use progressive presses I prefer a powder that cannot be double charged because the standard volume fills more than half the case. I too have now been handloading for 52 years and have never had an accident, but I do worry as with old age comes attention deficit, so I pay a lot more attention to the process than I did in my younger days. Handloading is a lot safer that most think.

[pworley1]

Being a newbie compared to you (I have only been casting and loading about 45 years) I find it interesting how similar my method is to yours. I don't read out loud.

[SharpsShooter]

Outstanding post Charles!

I have only been loading 40 years and I 100% agree. My father taught me the exact method you describe. It is the method I will teach my son.

SS

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I started reloading in 1959 however long that is [you do the math] and I have never even damaged a gun much less destroyed one.

[BNE]

When I talk to people about reloading I always show them that I have all my fingers and both eyes and my guns have not been damaged. I intend to keep it that way!

Good post. I have a similar methodology. I did mix a powder once when I was putting powder away and put it in the wrong container. I caught it immediately, but wasted a small amount of powder.

Compared to you guys I am the REAL newbie in this thread as I have only been reloading for 14 years.

[bangerjim]

That is how I have always done it.....one at at a time with an established sequence of positions and boolit set in the charged cases.

No loading all the cases at the same time as some do..........too may things can distract you!

Here's hoping no one on here ever has a double charge!

banger

[Seeker]

Great post and exellent read, thank you. I must admit that I too am anal about my reloading routine. One thing I always stress but no more important than all the other steps...the ONLY time a case is open end up in the loading block is when there IS powder in it.

[opos]

78 in a couple of months..started reloading in about 1958 or 59..Started with a single stage press and weighing every charge....I still use a single stage press and weigh every load...I don't load with anyone else around...I don't have the radio or tv on when loading..I don't load if I get tired or distracted. Boring to say the least but that's how I like it...I batch process..one phase at a time...never have more than one primer package and one powder bottle on the bench at the same time...My biggest "near misses" have come when the small poise on my 505 RCBS scale gets "jiggled" about 1/10 of a grain..seldom happens but has...As I'm using the dipper to dip the powder I make it a step to not dump it into the pan until I give a quick peek at the 1/10 grain poise. I've caught it a few times over the years but since I never load to maximum on anything..1/10 grain probably would not be a big issue...old and slow with no place to go and I like relaxing with a morning of reloading "my way"

[3006guns]

I just responded to a posted question from a member with less than 100 posts. He has a quantity of surplus 8mm Mauser ammunition and wanted to know, since the powder "looks like" IMR 4064, could he just use that data for other calibers?

I told him no, in no uncertain terms. It's a common mistake but it's outlined in every reloading manual that I've ever seen.....never experiment with an unknown powder with an unknown burn rate unless you know what you're doing. I DO know what I'm doing, but my many years are a testament to my caution and good sense.

[Uncle R.]

Once many years ago I got distracted and loaded a few rounds with no powder. That situation can be just as dangerous as an overcharge. I was lucky - there was no damage, no kabooms, just squibs. Even so, that experience made an old lady out of me when I'm at the loading bench. I'm just as worried about NO powder as I am about the wrong powder or a double charge, and using a one-at-a-time-then-seat-the-bullet method I fear I'll get distracted and seat on an empty case. There's really no protection against THAT particular brain fail using the one-at-a-time method.
<
My own system varies in that area. Only one powder container on the bench - ever - and just as important only one box of bullets. Double check the data - read it again - double check the scale zero and scale setting and the powder measure. After all that I stand the primed and ready cases in a loading block and then charge them all. I charge up and down the rows in a methodical fashion and count as I throw the measure. I want to say "fifty" when I'm charging that last case. After charging I set the loading block on the bench and then visually check the powder level in each case using a flashlight to make it easy to see. I view the block methodically - back and forth and then up and down, looking for cases with no powder or a double charge. I move my head back slightly making it easier to spot a difference in charge height and view them again. Only then do I seat the bullets.
<
This method works very well on straight-sided pistol cases and full charges in bottle-necked rifle cases where it's easy to see the powder. I wouldn't use it for tiny charges in narrow-mouth rifle brass that made it difficult to check the charge height. If I were loading such a recipe I'd probably resort to the one-at-a-time method that Char-Gar described.
<
Whatever method you use - it's important to have a well thought-out system and to follow it without deviation. Don't allow yourself to hurry at the loading bench. Concentration on the task at hand is your life preserver, and distraction your deadly enemy.
<
I've personally witnessed a couple of guns destroyed by bad hand loads. (Not my guns and not my loads, but I was there when it happened.) In other events that I didn't actually witness, one friend lost an eye when he blew up a handgun with a charge of the wrong powder and another friend destroyed a beautiful Colt SAA and had to get pieces of it removed from his body. I'm just saying kabooms from bad handloads are not as unusual as we might wish. It can happen, it DOES happen - don't let it happen to you. Be careful out there!
<
Uncle R.

[jaysouth]

Great post and good pictures. However I "out geezer" you. When I charge the case with powder, it goes immediately to the shellholder and gets a bullet seated and crimped.

I have been reloading a long time too. I had one years experience 30 times over for the first 30 years. Now I am gaining momentum by reading posts like this.

[blikseme300]

Charles, very good post.

I have been lucky in that in my 30-odd years of reloading I never had a ka-boom but have had no-charge loads on a progressive. I did witness a ka-boom in an AR-15 and this gave me pause.

I still use my progressive presses for most calibers but not in the 1-pull-1-round manner. I assemble rounds one at a time using pre-primed brass in the progressive and either use a powder cop or visual check before seating the boolit. Reloading is a relaxing endevour but paying attention is required.

[dtknowles]

I did not see anyone say it but the drift is going toward........Progressive presses are dangerous and you should not use them or you might blow yourself up.

Are progress presses safe?

Tim

[Watermelon Wine]

Hear hear! One of the best posts I've seen in an age. I'm slowly being driven away from a lot of (shooting related) forums because of the type Char-gar described in the original post.
It says a lot about the quality of the people on this forum that I still come here.

My own double-check is similar to what Uncle R describes above, that is, I load a row, quite separate from the empty cases, visually inspect the height of the powder either with sunlight or a torch (my mobile-phone has a small torch on it these days!) (For the Americans: "My cell has a flashlight on it now!") and then seat the projectiles immediately following the inspection. Only one powder on the bench, triple check the data and scales.

Here's a funny story relating to load safety:
I once noticed my (balance beam) scales behaving in a peculiar manner, they did not bottom out when i put too much powder in them. It turned out that a spider (well I do live in Australia) had managed to put a single strand of thread from the balance beam to the body of the scales that was stretching like a miniature bungy cord, potentially adding a few % to each charge.

Another term some people use, that might send the wrong impression to newbies, is: "...over a case-full of X1234 powder". Now I, and nearly everyone else here understands that "100% load density" might be a good thing in some situations, but to describe it I try to use terms like "12.1 grains of X1234, which is very nearly a compressed load in the K hornet case..."

Cheers all!

[hydraulic]

Jaysouth nailed it. Once that powder is in the case it never leaves my hand until a bullet is seated.

[Digital Dan]

Blowing up guns is not inevitable unless one is a bonehead or suffering from excessive testosterone, or both. Been at it for just shy of 50 years and had one occasion where bolt lift got a bit stiff in a .300 Weatherby with a load about 5 grains below manual max. About a month later Alliant had a powder recall for that particular lot.

[leeggen]

Stand your ground CharGar, we old folks got hear by being careful and not being preasured into high speed. I only shoot a few rounds at a time but reload when the numbers get down. I am like a few others and load one at a time. I maybe slow but I've still got everything I was born with.
CD

[country gent]

Great post Char Gar, I load very similar to the way you do know. There are 2 650s on my bench also but I havent needed them for awhile now. I am enjoying my new summit press and black powder cartridges. I have blown up a gun a 10mm delta elite but was accomplished with early 10 mm factory loads I was shooting up for the cases. One other recopmendation that should be made to new shooters is check loads in 2 or 3 diffrent sources before loading. I check the load in my notebooks then with lyman sierra or hornady manuals. Also load data gotten from internet sites definitly needs to be double and triple checked. Same with buddies pet load he tells you. Double check information and pay attention what you are doing.

[waksupi]

I did not see anyone say it but the drift is going toward........Progressive presses are dangerous and you should not use them or you might blow yourself up.

Are progress presses safe?


Tim

Reloaders use progressives. Handloaders generally do not.

[dtknowles]

Reloaders use progressives. Handloaders generally do not.

What about the people who use both. I carefully handload my bench rest ammo. I use a progressive to load 9mm Para practice and plinking ammo. Same with .357 Mag. My precision or self defense ammo is handloaded with weighed charges. Ammo loaded on the progressive press does not make me fear for a Kaboom, should I be concerned?

Tim

[mongoose33]

I did not see anyone say it but the drift is going toward........Progressive presses are dangerous and you should not use them or you might blow yourself up.

Are progress presses safe?

Tim


Reloaders use progressives. Handloaders generally do not.


I guess I'm both then.

For turning out high volumes of pistol cartridges I use my progressive. Virtually all top-notch pistol shooters who make their own ammo use progressives--otherwise they'd never have time to shoot. That should tell you whether it's "safe" or not.

A progressive is as safe as you are careful. I can generate throughput on my Hornady LnL of 600 rounds an hour--but I can't sustain it. A 300-350 per hour rate is more typical. It's not a race to see how fast I can produce ammo, rather, it's a way of producing it faster than one-at-a-time, but by keeping my rate down in the 300-350 range, I enjoy it more, and I can take more care with it.

[Digital Dan]

Single stage press for me on rifle/pistol and a MEC 9000 for shotguns. If there is a way to double charge a shell on a MEC I haven't figured it out.

[DrCaveman]

Turret presses are pretty sweet. You get to see the cartridge, feel the action, and visually check the powder level, every step of the way. 150-200 rounds/ hour is my rate after getting set up, with each round going from empty case to loaded/crimped cartridge before the next round is even considered. I think it is every bit as safe as a single stage. How can you improve on complete tactile and visual confirmation of every step of every round?

[tdoyka]

i've been loading over 20 years now. char-gar got it pretty much right. except i use a hornady electric powder scale and dispenser. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005050068/Lock-N-Load-Auto-Charge-Powder-Scale-and-Dispenser-110220-Volt i do have two of the lymans beam balance scales. the hornady is just awesome. after i charging the case and checking the correct height, i put the boolit/bullet in the case and put it in the press, while the electric scale is getting ready for another case. when the powder is done along with the boolits, then the next step is a lee factory crimp die.

in case you are wondering like i did, i used the beam balance to check the hornady several times. most of the time it was exactly on. twice it was 0.1gr off. since i don't shoot competively, it doesn't matter to me.

[GrayTech]

Those type of comments come from guys with little or no experience, there may also be the odd comment from guys with little or no intelligence.
They will have to exchange digits or limbs for the wisdom you just doled out for free. :) so be it....

[303Guy]

I've never double charged or overloaded a case but I sure have 'no charged' one. I nearly had a kaboom with it too! The primer dislodged the bullet and the next round had a double bullet! Or it would have had the bullet been able to push back far enough to allow it to chamber. No I never ever seat a bullet/boolit without first placing the powdered case in the shell holder and shining a light into it and looking. If I load one I do this, if I load a batch I do this. I've trained myself into this habit and it works. The slightest distraction and I go back to that 'flashlight' and re-inspect.

Good post!

[Catshooter]

Another thing to take away from Charles excellent post is that he was talked down to and insulted in a thread, but instead of taking his ball and going home he puts up a thread to help others achieve excellence.

Nice.


Cat

[NavyVet1959]

Unfortunately, I can't say I've never had a gun blow up in my hand, because I have. To this day I don't know why. The only thing that made any sense was that the case had a structural failure. Blew out the extractor of my LC9, and I was unhurt. Other than my pride, that is.

Here's the case:

139763

Awh, that's nothing... Here's one that I screwed up by thinking I was loading Longshot in a 10mm and instead loading Alliant Promo:

http://i59.tinypic.com/2hi7cyx.jpg

That one definitely smarted when it basically disassembled the gun and magazine in my hand. After I put everything back together, it was good as new though.

[StrawHat]

You mean if you are systematic in your methods and don't use idiot fringe loads, you won't blow up a firearm? Who'd of thought that would work?




With one exception, I use a 310 tool to load my rifle ammunition, I don't need a lot of it. I load 50-70 on a single stage press. Once I develop a load, I stay with it and, so far, I am happy.

I shoot handguns, a lot, so I load those rounds on my Dillon 450. So far, so good. I make sure I am set up for the round I plan to reload and my measure is filled with and dispensing the correct powder. I place cases, and bullets by hand, no tubes or such. A bit slower but I still manage to load more in an hour that I can shoot in the same time.

Kevin

[Lead Fred]

Dang I feel young, only been reloading since 1961.
I check, recheck, and recheck-check everything.

Some of the ways my ole man reloaded, are now considered dangerous. He and his WWII buds didnt think so.

I get PMs all the time for telling noobs NOT to reload rifle rounds anything but rifle powder.
Yet squibs keep blowing firearms up.
I got thrown off a forum for writing a white paper on why a certain caliber make such a good cop killer round.
I did not intend it to be that way. I was just showing folks how easy it is to defeat body armor.
Never figured bad folk would use this info for bad things. One of the draw backs of being a good guy.

[NC_JEFF]

I agree, great post. I have managed to stay "kaboomless" in 25 years of hand loading. I remember how respectful I was of the process when I started and that caused me to be a very careful reloader then and its only gotten better. I know its possible for me to over charge a case but its gonna have to be a very sneaky Gremlin to get me.
Safe shooting folks.

[Ken in Iowa]

Reloaders use progressives. Handloaders generally do not.

I totally get it waksupi.

My progressive gets used more like a turret press. The priming and powder charging are done by hand. Oh, and primer pocket cleaning to.

The key is to develop a routine that works for you.

[44man]

The only gun I damaged a looong time ago was a S&W 27 and it was with factory .38's. One did not leave the muzzle but sound and recoil still felt right so I missed it, the next split the muzzle.
S&W stripped the nickle, installed an 8-3/8" ribbed barrel and bright blued the gun for $35.
Powder cans on the bench! I was loading .44's with 296 and had an empty can for a spit cup. I dumped the last of the powder in my measure into the spit can! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2: Yeah it was a 296 can.
That stuff will not shoot good. I switched to a 4831 can. Have to hide my Cope from the wife of course.

[Char-Gar]

I have come to peace with the fact that a huge number of reloaders have succumbed to the siren song of the progressive reloaders and will not change their thinking on the issue. I have also come to peace with the fact that the majority of young voters put Obama in the White House two time and will likely vote for Hillary Clinton. The purpose of the analogy is that when folks have a point of view, they are not likely to move from it, even when facts would indicate a rethinking of their position.

Facts are stubborn things, and one fact is that the number of blown up firearms have gone up in recent years with the turn to progressive reloading machines. Is there a correlation between these two fact, well I think so. However, I do not use these gizmos so I can't speak with any degree of experience or expertise. I suppose they are safe enough in the hands of safe reloaders. But they do not allow for the manual and visual inspection of the case as it moves through the steps to become a loaded round. As a geezer locked into his time and place, this makes me plum queasy. However, I am not going to declare them unsafe based on the experience I don't have.

I do have some experience with Product Liability Law and feel confident in saying that any mechanical devise can do things it was not intended to do. The more complex the devise, the more frequent the malfunctions. When you divorce the devise from human hands and eyes, you are taking a chance on the mechanical thingie biting you on the nalgas (that is Spanish and should slip by the computer nanny). Human hands and eyes can fail you also, that is why a very strict redundant protocol for handloading is important.

Just stay safe out there boys and girls, the high pressure hot gas monster is just waiting for you to screw up.

[Love Life]

I breath through my nose so have managed to stay safe. Read the manual, use some common sense, and be happy with your process.

The problem with progressives is that mouth breathers also use them. Sheesh, people blow guns up single stage loading.

[cainttype]

There is nothing inherently unsafe regarding the use of a quality progressive reloading machine. A fool in any reloading room is a danger to himself and anyone around him as he practices instant firearms disassembly skills.
As Charles pointed out, things do get more complicated with progressives. A detailed understanding of, and adherence to, proper reloading practices and a mechanical mind are absolute requirements for safe and efficient use of high production equipment.
Progressives are definitely NOT the place to learn about ammunition assembly, no matter how nice the video is that came with the equipment.

That said, the only KABOOM I've witnessed was accomplished in the exact opposite scenario as suggested above.
A local LEO was interested in competitive shooting, so he took over the job of loading ammo for the rest of the department because the guy that was doing it had issues with supplying a constant source of ammo for practice...The dept's Dillon 550 found a new home, but the well- intentioned caretaker had no experience.
A short time later I was at the police range when the new dept reloader/officer blew a 38 Special to pieces. Luckily, he survived with no injuries, the gun however became a vivid example of what could have been disasterous.
The cylinder was cut in half, all the way to the ejector rod, the chamber that was fired, and the chambers in each side of it were gone. The entire topstrap was gone, we never did find it ( or any piece of it).
i believe that he didn't understand the necessity of adjusting the press with only one casing on the shell plate. I believe he attempted adjusting the press from a SWC to a WC while the shell plate was full, each raising and lowering of the handle dropping an additional charge of fast burning powder in a DEEP 38 Spcl casing (#2 in line) until he got it where he wanted it.
When that second round was fired, it was akin to pulling the pin on a hand grenade, the fact that he wasn't injured was practically a miracle.

[matthew n gooseneck]

Great info. How long did it take to reload this batch from start to finish?

[mongoose33]

I have come to peace with the fact that a huge number of reloaders have succumbed to the siren song of the progressive reloaders and will not change their thinking on the issue. I have also come to peace with the fact that the majority of young voters put Obama in the White House two time and will likely vote for Hillary Clinton. The purpose of the analogy is that when folks have a point of view, they are not likely to move from it, even when facts would indicate a rethinking of their position.

I can't tell if you're intentionally trolling here or just succumbing to bad analogy.

For me to change my thinking about progressives would require me to conclude that very slow reloading is superior to faster reloading with just as many safeguards.

I can do, comfortably, 300-350 pistol rounds an hour on my Hornady. Could go faster, but it's not a race, and I'm not interested in being the fastest reloader. I would be hard-pressed, doing the same on a single stage, to achieve even 100 rounds an hour--and 50-75 would probably be more likely.

So my "thinking" is that very slow reloading is not superior to efficient reloading, provided steps are taken to ensure that accidents are extremely unlikely to happen. Wouldn't you agree?

I use powders that, should a double-charge occur, would fill the case and even overflow it, making a double-charge obvious. I peer into each case before I seat the bullet/boolit to ensure there's a powder charge, and on top of that I use the RCBS Lockout Die to double-check either a squib load or a double-charge.

I do not load to maximum levels of a particular powder/bullet combination--I've always thought it made sense to allow some room for error. A 9mm bullet at 1100 fps is fine; I don't need 1350 fps. A little variance in bullet seating depth, or a couple tenths variance in powder charge isn't going to push the envelope.

I'm really quite shocked at the negative attitude by some toward progressives. Progressive presses have their place, and it's a good place, especially for those of us who shoot a lot of pistol rounds. It's not the be-all and end-all of reloading press designs, and in fact, I load all my rifle rounds on a single stage, because the progressive is not appropriate for what I want to do.

But there are ways to keep the bad stuff from happening, and I can only conclude that those who are vilifying progressives have never thought it through all the way--which would require a rethinking of their position. :)

[wallenba]

I was first exposed to reloading at age 14. Went 'solo' when I was 19 (30-30). I'm 63 now. In all that time... no Kabooms. I'm not lucky, or a genius. Just diligent, observant, and focused when doing it. In all those years I have had two squibs. I trusted a new case activated powder measure on a progressive. I immediately added a lock-out die.
It is not unreasonable to expect 100% safely loaded ammo. You MUST do your part. Remember, you are usually not alone when shooting, and everyone's safety is involved.
I flew small aircraft for many years. Even with all my experience I always used my checklist, 'cleared' my prop even when I knew there was nobody on the airfield.
And I still use a checklist when I reload. I keep my powder bottle on the bench when I'm loading, so I know what I'm using. I have at times had a doubt about a loaded round. Rather than say to myself 'it'll be OK', I pull it.

[montana_charlie]

On such a recent thread, it was remarked that everybody makes mistakes and stuff like this was just part of the reloading game. I was quick to dispute that, saying along the way, that don't load over pressure rounds and have not done so in 57 years of reloading. In rapid succession, I was called arrogant, condescending and even someone who was not telling the truth. It seem inconceivable to some that a person could reload over a very long time and not blow up a firearm.

Isn't it telling how people today are so quick to grab that 'arrogant' adjective when somebody makes a declaratory statement with the confidence of his convictions?
Then, if there is argument that the confidence is misplaced, the claimant becomes 'condescending' when he pauses to explain how the dissenter can achieve similar results through the simple art of paying attention.

Most understand that being 'sloppy' is unwise.
But many cannot stand it when they meet an implication which says that they are sloppy ... AND unwise.

[Blackwater]

Well, it looks like it's confession time for ol' BW here. I DID once blow up a pistol, and when I did it, I did it RIGHT! It was a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44. A lesson can be learned from the story, or at least hopefully so. I've been reloading for 53 years, and never had a blowup or serious problem that would have put myself or anyone else in a bad situation. I HAVE had the experience of shooting other people's loads that turned out to blow primers, though. Not good, for SURE, but I can't claim to have caused it. So .... if ya' wanna' blow up a perfectly good gun, do what I did. If not, use a little better sense. Here's what happend and what caused it.

It was the week before deer season and I wanted to try my .44 on one. I had been awfully busy, and hadn't shot as regularly as I usually had, and was concerned that my gilted edge had been dulled. I'd been at some training classes some 4 hrs. distant, and couldn't leave until rather late on Friday, so I got home pretty darned late. I also had to fix some supper and check the mail from the last week, and take care of a few pressing odds and ends. I had my lips pooched out because I wanted to shoot the following day, a Saturday. I finally determined that since I'd loaded many thousands of rounds by that time, that I COULD load some up and be ready for the morrow without mishap. I already had sized primed and expanded cases sitting ready. All I had to do was charge and cork them, and run them into the seater/crimper die, and all would be well in Never-Neverland. Good theory, and 99.9 times out of 100, it would have worked out just as imagined. However, it was already after midnight, and I knew better, but .... well, I just didn't DO better. I went to the reloading room, bot out a big box of the ready brass, and reached for my ol' reliable can of 2400. Alas, it was almost empty, and I'd forgotten to get some more. Not good. Then I remembered I'd just bought some 231 Olin and had been wanting to try it in the .44 for some mid-range level loads, and since I figured such loads would be perfectly acceptable for my intended purpose, I opened the new can and charged my powder measure to the hilt. IIRC, I loaded 9.5 and 10.5 gr., but that's probably wrong, so don't go citing it to anyone. Anyway, I charged 350 cases and corked them with the Saeco #441 SWC's which weighed 263 gr. lubed. When done, I wiped any lube off the bullets and put them in boxes, and the boxes in a big bag for totin' to the range.

Everything went just fine until the NEXT time I went to reload, which was, IIRC, the Tuesday after that. Then, I loaded up 22.3 gr. of what I THOUGHT was 2400. If you're sharp, you know what happened next, just from the info given so far. Went to shoot these Wed. after work, and with a buddy standing right behind me and my young son sitting straddled across his shoulders, I let loose what I was accustomed to assume would be a nice group. It just didn't happen that way. On the very first shot, the gun came back in recoil MUCH more forcefully than ever before, and the sound of the shot had a strange and sort'a hollow sound to it. The recoil rocked the barrel back about 45 degrees past vertical, and only a good, firm grip kept it in my hand. I knew SOMETHING was wrong, but was startled enough that I couldn't conceive what had just happened. I lowered the gun, backed away from my improvised rest, and looked at the left side of the gun. I knew something was amiss, but didn't spot it, probably because I was just dumbfounded enough to not see what was right in front of me. I then turned it over to the right side, and nearly fainted - a first for me! The cylinder under the hammer had detonated and blown out, but that wasn't all. The cylinder to the right of that one was ALSO gone, splitting longitudinally at the center of the chamber at the thinnest partof the cylinder walls. More close examination revealed amazingly, that the top strap held, but was cracked 2/3 of the way across at the corner of the cutout where the rear sight fits into the frame. It was bulged outward slightly, but enough to notice (that's what looked "funny" on the reverse side immediately after the shot from the left side), and even the bottom strap that houses the trigger workings was slightly but noticably bulging outward.

My knees suddenly became very weak, and I plopped down cross-legged on the ground so I didn't fall down. The sudden and instantaneous realization of what had happened hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks, and I'd defy anyone who's come face to face with his mortality in the past to do elsewise under those circumstances. I could not concieve what had happened or find a cause. The shock of it was probably blinding me, but whatever it was, I took the relic of the kaboom to my friend and local gunsmith at the time, who'd trained with Ackley and Pachmyr. He knew his stuff, and he knew me, and I told him I'd loaded 22.3 gr. of 2400 under some WW 240 gr. JHP's. He had enough faith in my loading ability that he'd shot my loads, and didn't shoot very many others had reloaded. Like I've been since then, he just didn't trust ANYBODY's reloads but HIS. He said I must have used the wrong powder, which seemed evident, but I just could NOT accept that. I was normally extraordinarily careful in my loading, and was certain I'd used powder from my can of 2400. At one point in the process, I got a VERY uncomfortable and sneaky hunch what COULD have happened, when I remembered that that particular can of 2400 HAD been nearly empty when I'd started loading, and though slow sometimes when I THINK I'm sure, I wan't THAT averse to owning up to a mistake. I ALSO wanted desperately to find out what had actually CAUSED the gun's demise, and threatened to have possibly taken me with it. I HAD to KNOW - NOT just "believe."

So .... upon getting home that afternoon (I'd stopped by the gun shop to see if my gunsmith buddy had come up with any new theories, but of course he had none, other than being more certain than ever that I'd used the wrong powder) I went straight into my reloading room and got the can of 2400 and some 231 that remained in its can, and poured each out into a white china dish and inspected them under good light. Couldn't see the least bit of difference. Now a faint light was beginning to glow in my mind. I found a buddy with some 2400 and got a small amount to compare mine and my 231 with, came back and ... well lo and behold if the 2400 didn't look MUCH different than the sparkling grains of 231! I then started backtracking mentally, and remembered that I'd emptied the hopper of my measure back into A can, but couldn't remember for sure which one. From the evidence before me, though, I KNEW what I'd done. I'd just reached for the 2400 can, which was my habitual practice when loading the .44's, and poured the full hopper of 231 into the can with a little 2400 in it. It couldn't be anything else. My heart sank at the thought that my fallibility had come close to costing me or my buddy and son standing behind me one or more of our lives! Sunk or not, though, I was NOT about to be pig-headed enough to deny what I knew dang well MUST be he truth, and after pouring out the entire can of "2400" and getting a new can to compare it to, it was conclusive that this is EXACTLY what I'd done. It was 3:30 a.m. when I'd finished loading those initial 350 rds., and I'd swithced off my "thinker" and just operated by rote in my anxiousness to get to bed. It HAD been a somewhat gruelling week, and I was VERY tired and sleepy by the time I'd finished, and I'd just set myself up for my NEXT session of loading.

So, good friends, never, Never, NEVER EVER get to thinking that just because you haven't YET made a mistake that you CAN'T, because ALL of us CAN, if we're not careful. It's said that eternal vigilance is the price of Freedom, and it's also the price we pay for our safety as reloaders.

Changes due to above are, as Char-Gar says, I NEVER have but ONE can of powder open at a time - EVER! NOHOW, NO WAY! NOT EVER! That's an open invitation to at some point in our future to make the same mistake I did, and believe me, you will NOT relish the results AT ALL!

And Char-Gar, the ONLY statement you made that I'd have any issue with you at all with, is " one fact is that the number of blown up firearms have gone up in recent years with the turn to progressive reloading machines." I know there are extra concerns with them that have to be taken into consideration, but I think the heart of the matter lies elsewhere. I have a sneaking notion that the increase in the number of blowups is simply due to the lacadaisical ATTITUDE of some newbies. There seems to be a group think type thing where people are told and accept the "just do as I do and you'll be OK" type attitude, and some newbies just don't think deeply enough, or pay enough attention to the details that are and always have been part and parcel of any potentially dangerous undertaking like reloading. Carelessness and inattention just don't naturally tend to produce good results, and few newbies seem to appreciate the real consequences of what they're doing at first. THIS, in my humble opinion, is the biggest source of the blowups and injuries we read about.

But both are just imaginings on both our parts, and both DO have merit, I think. I'd certainly not argue the point.

Just thought this little description of events might help some old timers to not think of themselves as Superman, and maybe some newbie to better understand just how, and how MANY, things CAN go wrong if we're not eternally vigilant. No need for paranoia. Just a common amount of discretion, thought and attention to detail. Reloading always IS, in the end, about the details, whether we like to accept that or not sometimes, and there'll always be those in the later group. Always have been, and they've produced the same type of results, sooner or later. They sure are big on blowing their own horn, though, right up to the point that their attitude COSTS them. Guys like Char-Gar and others who've reloaded for half a century will ALL admit that they know darned well that they're fallible, and THAT is why they always pay so close attention to what they're doing, and why they take it all so very seriously. It's because it IS serious! Simple. And it ONLY TAKES ONE MISTAKE TO COST YOU. Remembering that CAN help us avoid such penalties, IF we think and practice it EVERY time.

Great post, Char-Gar, and one that was really needed. Can I suggest this be a sticky? It sure is constantly valuable advice!

[Geezer in NH]

Internet gun boards are replete with threads about blow up firearms and injured body parts these days, often with graphic pictures. Discussion abounds about metallurgy, design, an manufacturing tolerances etc, etc, etc., when in reality with about a 98% certainty, it was too much of the right or wrong powder that did the deed. Reloading can be destructive to the firearm and your body if the eye is not kept on the ball.

On such a recent thread, it was remarked that everybody makes mistakes and stuff like this was just part of the reloading game. I was quick to dispute that, saying along the way, that don't load over pressure rounds and have not done so in 57 years of reloading. In rapid succession, I was called arrogant, condescending and even someone who was not telling the truth. It seem inconceivable to some that a person could reload over a very long time and not blow up a firearm.

I was reloading a batch of 38 Specials today and thought I would take a few pics and add a few comments and notes to show how I do "no kaboom" reloading. Before you say it, yes, I know this is to slow and labor intensive for most folks these days, but this is the way I have been doing it for a very long time and have been kaboomless. No firearms has ever been damaged in the least now has anybody had even a slight injury. Well, I did trip over my own feet at the range once time and turn an ankle, but that was not reloading related. Here is now I do it;

1. Cases are sized, primed and mouth expanded and place upside down in a loading block.

2. My powder measure is checked for the correct charge each time I begin. I used fixed rotor measures or a battery of adjustable Lyman 55s, each set up for one charge. Even so I check the measure each time I use it.

3. I only have on powder out and I read the container aloud before I pour it in the measure. Murphy the shop cat does not seem to notice or be bothered by it.

4. I remove an upside down case from the block and look inside to make sure it is empty.

5. I charge the case with the measure.

6. I look inside the case again to make certain it has a powder charge of correct height.

7. I place a bullet into the case and start it by hand, replaced it in the block before I pick up another upside down case and repeat steps 4 - 6.

8. I then take the blocks with the charged cases and started bullets to the reloading press, where the bullets are seated and the case mouth crimped.

There will be no under or over pressure rounds in the batch..without exception, period!

Additional notes:

I much prefer a Lyman two step expander because it enable me to start the bullet and have it say in the case, in good alignment. I never shave lead from the bullet when seating by doing this.

This batch of cases are 1978 Lake City USGI 38 Special cases. I have about 5,000 of them. They are long lasting. I also have some WCC USGI brass and they are of lesser quality, but still usable. I also have some R-P USGI 38 Special brass, but they are junk. I load them once and eject them into a scrap bucket for recycling. I trim each case to a uniform length the first time I use it.

The bullets in the pictured reloads are good ol Lyman 358311 RN. I load this over 3/Bullseye for range use only. This is not a top end load, but I have about a dozen 38 Special handguns, some as old as 100 years and this pressure load will keep them shooting for several lifetimes more. When I see this RN bullet in a 38 Special case, I know what the powder charge is. This load will shoot every bit as well as a match wadcutter load, as least as far as I can determine, by holding the handgun in my hand and shooting at paper targets. I do load other bullets with heavier powder charges for other purposes.

I always try several loaded and crimped rounds into the cylinder of several sixguns (Colt and Smith and Wesson) before I load the batch. This prevents me from having to break down loads because they are over crimped and won't chamber properly. Best to take the time now, and not later after they are all done.

There is a VERY GOOD reason why the use of reloaded/handloaded ammo voids the warrantee on all firearms made. The manufactures know that anything less that total concentration and care can result in a damaged firearm and/or shooter. This is called a clue about how dangerous handloading can be when done improperly.

Now the pics;

139742Hey! I am A Geezer my usurer name's Geezer in NH.
Good advise!! I use 2 pound coffee cans. One step each easy dump powder look in case seat the bullet dump in can and when full set the crimp die. it has worked for me for decades.

[Brett Ross]

I have not been reloading near as long as some of you guys. I started in shot shell about 25 years ago, stopped for 10 or 15 years. I picked it back up about 3 years ago and started reloading metallic cartridges along with shot shell. The big difference of reloading in your Twenty’s and Fifty’s, is a bit of wisdom. At twenty I just ran in and started reloading, can’t be that tough right? In my late forties and early fifties I was not in such a big hurry and read than re-read everything I could. After much research I discovered how lucky I was not to hurt my-self, or damage any equipment. My only saving grace was to listen to my local gun shop owner who set me up with 1 load recipe and did not deviate from that (at least I was smart enough to know, I knew nothing, and trust those who did). I will have to admit to owning a progressive press (bought after two years of reloading on my turret) I only use it for low charge pinking rounds, 38s, 9X19 and 45ACP. Most of my low volume pistol rounds are loaded on the turret press and rifle rounds are loaded single stage. I may be fooling my-self but I find the progressive to be safe, not fool proof but safe. I believe the trick is to realize you are making a round with every pull of the lever, so slow down, check things out, than pull the lever. The trouble occurs with progressives when you get in the production mentality. When I load single stage I weigh every charge and never dump powder in a cartage with out turning over first, this cartage then go’s directly to the press where a boolit is seated, I’m scared to death of a double charge, as doubt I could see it with the powders I use. Now, I'm not trying to say that progressives are as fool proof as a single stage with a good system, but I think they close and both are down right dangerous if not given the proper respect. All you new re-loaders, don't be me at twenty but more like me at fifty, slow down, read, read some more, listen to these old hands , such as Charles, then do.
Tony

[NavyVet1959]

Facts are stubborn things, and one fact is that the number of blown up firearms have gone up in recent years with the turn to progressive reloading machines. Is there a correlation between these two fact, well I think so.


There's a couple of issues at play here.

More people are involved in reloading these days than before the progressive presses became popular. More people reloading means more potential for errors.
Distribution of information about mishaps is more prevalent due to the internet and reloading forums. Used to be that you only heard about a mishap if it occurred to someone at your local shooting range. Now, you get to hear about it if it occurs to anyone at any shooting range across the country.
More people are involved in the shooting sports that need lots of ammo to be produced. The benchrest rifle shooter did not need to produce that many rounds of ammunition for a competition whereas the IPSC, IDPA, etc tend to use quite a bit more ammo in each competition. More rounds being used equals more chances for a mishap. Considering the amount of rounds being used in these competitions, a single stage press is not really feasible for someone who is actively involved in the competition and who might go to multiple meets each week.


I started out with a single stage press, but I also own a turret press and a progressive press. Each one serves a particular purpose. If I'm needing to produce a couple of hundred rounds for a handgun, I'm going to be using my progressive press. If I'm developing a new load, I'm likely to be using the turret press and weighing each load.

[Char-Gar]

I can't tell if you're intentionally trolling here or just succumbing to bad analogy.

For me to change my thinking about progressives would require me to conclude that very slow reloading is superior to faster reloading with just as many safeguards.

I can do, comfortably, 300-350 pistol rounds an hour on my Hornady. Could go faster, but it's not a race, and I'm not interested in being the fastest reloader. I would be hard-pressed, doing the same on a single stage, to achieve even 100 rounds an hour--and 50-75 would probably be more likely.

So my "thinking" is that very slow reloading is not superior to efficient reloading, provided steps are taken to ensure that accidents are extremely unlikely to happen. Wouldn't you agree?

I use powders that, should a double-charge occur, would fill the case and even overflow it, making a double-charge obvious. I peer into each case before I seat the bullet/boolit to ensure there's a powder charge, and on top of that I use the RCBS Lockout Die to double-check either a squib load or a double-charge.

I do not load to maximum levels of a particular powder/bullet combination--I've always thought it made sense to allow some room for error. A 9mm bullet at 1100 fps is fine; I don't need 1350 fps. A little variance in bullet seating depth, or a couple tenths variance in powder charge isn't going to push the envelope.

I'm really quite shocked at the negative attitude by some toward progressives. Progressive presses have their place, and it's a good place, especially for those of us who shoot a lot of pistol rounds. It's not the be-all and end-all of reloading press designs, and in fact, I load all my rifle rounds on a single stage, because the progressive is not appropriate for what I want to do.

But there are ways to keep the bad stuff from happening, and I can only conclude that those who are vilifying progressives have never thought it through all the way--which would require a rethinking of their position. :)

I only have a couple of things to say in reply;

1. I am not a troll land deeply resent you suggesting that I am.

2. I thought the analogy fitting about people who once set in a certain way, will not see things from another point of view. I still think the analogy is on point.

3. I was not vilifying progressive presses. I took extra care to state I didn't have enough hands on experience to say they were unsafe.

4. I did not say that slow was superior, those are your words your conclusions. I do question however your blanket statement that faster is "efficient".

5. The purpose of the post, which seems to be appreciated by most, was to say how I do things and that way did not blow up firearms. It was not designed to get your knicker in a twist. This thread is about reloading and not your mother's virtue, so no need to get so spun up.

6. We have done the pro and anti progressive press thing on this board until the thought of that subject wants to make me throw up. You can load anyway, and post about it with pics, and I will not denigrate you nor your post.

7. One thing that does disgust me about this board is it seems to be festooned with folks just looking for a fight and will misconscrew every post to twist it into a confrontation. This makes simple communication difficult is not impossible. This is supposed to be a place where friends and people with a mutual interest can talk and share experiences and not a mixed martial arts cage match.

8. It seems that every post, not matter the intent will turn nasty, in just a day or two. It seems to be the nature of many on this board. So, this will be my last post on this thread. You guys can have your whizing match about which machine is better if you want, but I want none of it. Several times, I have promised myself not to post on this board for this reason. However, I don't seem to be able to keep my promise. I will see if I can be more faithful to myself in the future.

[mongoose33]

I only have a couple of things to say in reply;

1. I am not a troll land deeply resent you suggesting that I am.

Then it's a bad analogy. Analogy is always suspect, and you accept yours as true and proceed; bad practice, IMO.


2. I thought the analogy fitting about people who once set in a certain way, will not see things from another point of view. I still think the analogy is on point.


Here's the irony, and it is a whopper of an irony: you yourself are set in your ways and want to define anyone who doesn't agree with you as "set in a certain way." When, clearly, you are as well.


3. I was not vilifying progressive presses. I took extra care to state I didn't have enough hands on experience to say they were unsafe.

Really? You were certainly laying blame at the feet of those presses. Even then, I didn't say YOU were vilifying them, just that some appeared to be. Don't like the word "vilifying?" Try another then, but it sure seemed clear there was your way, and the lesser ways. In your opinion.


4. I did not say that slow was superior, those are your words your conclusions. I do question however your blanket statement that faster is "efficient".

This is why I, and others perhaps, might define you as a troll: I didn't say "faster is efficient." Those are words you're putting my mouth, and frankly, my friend, when you do that, you call into question an awful lot of what you say.


5. The purpose of the post, which seems to be appreciated by most, was to say how I do things and that way did not blow up firearms. It was not designed to get your knicker in a twist.

That, my friend, was your first post, which was fine. But then you go further and say things like "I have come to peace with the fact that a huge number of reloaders have succumbed to the siren song of the progressive reloaders and will not change their thinking on the issue."

Here's a problem with the way you're arguing here: you can't take my response to a later post and then argue that somehow, it's in fact a reaction to your initial post.

IMO, that's fundamentally dishonest. I think I might have an idea why you are in so many kerfuffles here--just an inkling. If you're not going to fight fair, if you're going to defend your views using things I didn't say, and conflate arguments in different posts, then, my friend, you are a troll, or at least engage in troll-like behavior.


6. You can load anyway, and post about it with pics, and I will not denigrate you nor your post.

Thank you.


7. One thing that does disgust me about this board is it seems to be festooned with folks just looking for a fight and will misconscrew every post to twist it into a confrontation. This makes simple communication difficult is not impossible. This is supposed to be a place where friends and people with a mutual interest can talk and share experiences and not a mixed martial arts cage match.

Again, I responded to what you wrote. If you want better responses, learn to write better. I pointed out above some examples of why you bring this on yourself. I won't even deal with the unsubstantiated belief that more kabooms (have there really been? How do you know?) are correlated with more progressives, when you don't even know the proportion of kabooms coming from progressives, versus single-stages. But then you proceed as if it were true and build a straw man argument easy to refute.


8. It seems that every post, not matter the intent will turn nasty, in just a day or two. It seems to be the nature of many on this board. So, this will be my last post on this thread. You guys can have your whizing match about which machine is better if you want, but I want none of it. Several times, I have promised myself not to post on this board for this reason. However, I don't seem to be able to keep my promise. I will see if I can be more faithful to myself in the future.

From what I can discern here, the one commonality in a lot of these "whizzing matches" appears to be....you. Interesting, eh? How's that for correlation and causality?

[AnthonyB]

I have been teaching a newbie the ropes. He is an active duty Major in the Army and an experienced shooter who wants to get into reloading. We did single stage for a few sessions, and he had lots of questions, so we did it again and again. We finally got to the seldom used Dillon progressive, and he didn't like that at all. Almost all my loading is done on the Rockchucker, but I have the Dillons in case the Zombie Apocalypse catches me unprepared.
Tony

[Virginia John]

For all the newbies, if you hadn't noticed, it pays to be OCD. If you are not before you started reloading, you soon will be.

[AnthonyB]

Oh, and mongoose33? You are wrong.
Tony

[s mac]

I for one always enjoy Char Gar's threads, thoughtful and well written. Don't see them as his way or no way at all.

[shooter93]

I don't use a progressive...or use one rarely but that is my choice. Maybe it APPEARS that there are more kabooms since they have become more common because with forums like this one people have greater contact with larger groups and are more open to talking about mistakes made to aide and help others not to make the same mistakes.

[cainttype]

Charles accomplished his goal in the original post. He clearly outlined a safe routine for anyone newer to reloading to consider as a KABOOM-proof method... New reloaders should take note.
Discussing progressives evolved/sidetracked later, but isn't the intent here.

Char-Gar is an outstanding contributor to this forum, and has been a real mentor to many here. His experience and advice should be valued by those seeking to improve their knowledge about cast shooting, especially if they enjoy classic military rifles.
I'm one slight generation behind Charles (he was beginning reloading about when I quit wearing diapers), and the whole Internet thing is still uncomfortable to me. Conversation in these venues often appears harsh, regardless of the intent, so it seems that everyone is too easily offended.

The last thing I'd like to see, would be less of Char-Gar. :)
He is a valuable asset to this forum and his input will be of great value to most here. A "Newbie" would be hard pressed to find a better wealth of information from a gentleman with the patience to share and mentor as much as Charles has for years now.
Hopefully that willingness to share and contribute will continue for years to come.

[Dragonheart]

It's a real man that can admit a mistake. And a mistake can be made even using the old one at a time"Lee Loader", that you had to hammer a case into the sizing die. So it's not the machine it's the man. I have been using progressive presses since RCBS first came out with the Green Machine, then Dillon 450, Dillon 550's and now I run two Dillon 650's. I use a number of different powders and bullets and found a method I will share that works for me. Because almost everyone is using a powder dropper, buy a roll of clear "removable"scotch tape available at an office supply and a Sanford Sharpie. Put a strip of tape on your powder measure and with the Sharpie write on the tape the powder, the charge and the bullet weight. Now you have a visual reference and no longer need to remember anything. when you change a load remark everything. The removable tape can be stuck to a clean surface to reuse.

additionally, I usually buy my powder by the jug, but I also buy a one pound can of my much used powders. I fill my hopper first with the one pound can until it's gone and leave the can at the press. If I need to refill the hopper I now use the jug. When I change powders the left over powder from the hopper goes into the one pound can. I never pour back into the jug and possibly contaminate 8 pounds of powder and the can at the press is the powder that is in the hopper. Being anal is a plus in handloading.

[reloader28]

I aint been loading as long as some of you guys, but its been long enough I dont remember when I started and I've loaded several hundred thousands of rounds.
I load handguns on a Dillon 650 and an RCBS progressive, but I load rifles the same way as the OP except I dont put a bullet in the case. When the block is full, I check everything with a flashlight because its easier to compare the charges and see a mishap.

I did however have a recent brain fart and apparently double charged a 45-70 round = gun blown up.
I was using a new Lyman powder measure/scale and double checking it on my RCBS beam scale. Then poured the powder into the case thru a Lee case expander on one press then seated the boolit on another press.
I think the end buzzer going off on the powder scale made me loose my train of thought and I must have dumped 2 charges in one case. I probly went straight to the boolit seater after that without checking since I knew I just dumped in the powder. The end result - now I need a new gun.

I'll admit it, I'm an idiot and screwed up big time. Now I'm going back to my original loading procedure (like the OP). It could have been MUCH worse, but it shouldnt have happened at all. You newbies take heed, it can happen to anybody if your not focused at all times and it flat HURTS when a stick of dynomite goes off in your hand. 100 times worse than a fire cracker in your fingers. If you dont know what I'm talking about, you've had a sheltered life.

CharGar, if you got flamed in my thread, I apologise. I'll have to go back and reread it I guess. It seems like a long time ago and all kinda blurry now.

[Blackwater]

Char-Gar, please don't quit posting. You're one of the most respected and consistent posters here, and if you left, we'd all be at a loss. Don't let the idjit arguers get to you. They're not worth it. The "gold" in your knowledge and experience is simply worth too much, and I know part of the reason you come here is to at least TRY to help the newbies and mid-level posters who have problems, and to pass on some of the knowledge you've EARNED in the past.

Just got off the phone with an old fishing buddy, and he was complaining about how many come to him for advice because he almost NEVER goes to the river or wherever without bringing back a healthy stringer, while many go fishless or only catch a few - barely enough for a meal, if that. What happens is simply that they'll actually SEEK HIM OUT and ask him what to do to get better results. He'll answer and truthfully so, and try to help. THEN, and this is the idiotic part, they'll almost ALWAYS say something to the effect of, "Well, I don't do it like that, I do it like THIS." The puzzling part is that these very people who sought him out to START with don't seem able or willing to absorb what they're told, and somehow expect him to offer some sort of voo doo answer that'll let them get the same results and not change anything they do.

It wasn't long ago that a friend sought me out for advice on long range shooting. We'd gone to a local range where we could shoot at up to 1200 yds. and had our targets set up at 600. He was shooting a VERY nice custom actioned rifle built and blueprinted especially for long range. He was getting about 8-10" groups at 600, and seemed satisfied. I watched him shoot and noticed he was pressing the forend against the side of the front bag, and putting side pressure on the grip, rather than adjusting the bags like he needed to. His form was otherwise acceptable, and I pointed out what he was doing and told him that this was giving him much of his lateral and some of his vertical spread. After SEEKING ME OUT FOR ADVICE, what did he tell me? He said, "You're CRAZY! That could NEVER make that much difference! I shrugged my shoulders, and a bit peeved, told him that if he was satisfied getting the results he was getting, to go on ahead and keep doing it the same way. He kept sitting there doing the same things, and got the same results. Then toward the end of the day, at dusk, when the chrono quit working, I had some rounds left I wanted to shoot, and he called to me to go look in his spotting scope. I wasn't very interested in what he'd done after having been called "crazy" for giving him good, well recognized advice, and said I had my own shooting to do and we'd look at it later when we pulled the targets and were on the way home. He again said I needed to go look at his target, and there was something in his voice that made me look over at him. His face was red, and he had a sheepish grin on his face. This was intriguing enough that I got up and went to the spotter and took a quick look. He had 4 of 5 rds. in a group that later turned out to be 2 1/4" at 600. Not bad for a rank beginner with a new rifle at that distance! To his everlasting credit, he'd finally decided to give my advice a try, and that was his result. And he also had the good grace to tell me, "I guess you were right. I just didn't see how it could make that much difference, but it DID." This retrieved at least a major part of our friendship. It's awfully trying on a man to be sought out and THEN to be told he's "crazy" when he does all he can to help a newbie, but today, it's almost expected.

The problem is that it's not JUST the blacks and whites on welfare that seem to have swallowed the "entitlements" theorum. Most younger people seem to think they can just take to gunning and reloading any old way they like, mostly for the simple sake of "style," and are "entitled" to the same results anyone else who has the same gun and rig gets. This has NEVER been the case, of course, and never WILL be. The ones who get the great results in reloading, fishing or any other endeavor of a technical nature are the ones who seek out and TEST the advice of others who are successful in that endeavor. If it doesn't work out for them, they go BACK and ask what they might have done that was wrong, and re-test again, and usually find they forgot some little detail that made a big difference in results.

When we old timers were growing up and shooting as younger men, money wasn't thrown about like confetti, and we usually HAD to make every dollar count. Thus, we paid attention to what we did and the results therefrom, and expected to have to "sort it out," as the old African white hunters used to say. We never expected to become overnight wonders, like WAY too many newbies seem to today. The changes in attitude and ethics of our more "modern" day HAVE, most definitely, had repercussions throughout our culture, and this is one of the most frustrating aspects of it. It's just that simple, and just that consequential. There've always been consequences for hubris - the destructive kind of pride that comes from seeing one's self as lord of all they survey, and final arbiter of everything that comes up. You can see it in business, in politics, and even in religion, what there is of it left, anyway. And nobody, or at least very, very few, seem to notice, or even WANT to notice. Why, that'd be tantamount to admitting we'd made a MISTAKE, or hadn't listened well, and NOBODY seems to want admit such things, though they're not quite so adamant about actually DOING what they THINK of themselves as doing.

Sure makes it difficult for us old timers to help. There's a vast chasm between "thinking" and really KNOWING, but it seems to be lost on an awful lot of otherwise good and worthy people today. And that's just plain sad .... but it's just the way things and people are today, and nothing is more common now. I've taken to doing what I did with my buddy on the range - I just shrug and tell them if they're satisfied with their results to keep doing what they're doing, and even THEN, many seem puzzled why they can't get the better results without changing what they're doing. Truly, this is a sign of our times, and it aint' leadin' us anywhere ANY of us on either end of the spectrum are going to find very satisfying when the inevitable results occur. But that's just llife, or what serves for it today. Sure is frustrating for us old heads, but we're tough enough to handle it .... well, most times, anyway.

[Love Life]

This thread just hit Simple Jack status.

[gloob]

"I'm the only person in this room professional enough to handle this Glock 40."

That'll fly, until you shoot yourself in the foot. Good luck, OP. :)

[John Boy]

Char - Excellent Post! If I may add 3 items to your list:
* Never be interrupted when reloading. If your called to dinner - finish what you were in the process of doing
* Never reload if you are tired, especially late in the evening doing a rush job to prepare ammo for the next day
* Be damn sure if you use a digital scale that it is set for GRAINS not GRAMS!

[JWT]

I load for handgun on a progressive and rifle single stage. My Dad taught me to reload around 30 years ago and I have refined what he taught me.


I decap, size, chamfer, trim, and clean all cases.
After tumbling all cases are wiped clean and inspected for issues.
Next I verify all flash holes are clear.
At this stage cases are sorted by headstamp and boxed.
When I am ready to load I hand prime. Only one box of primers out at a time. I put 50 in the tray and make sure I have 50 primed cases when done.
My procedure for rifle and pistol diverges at this point.


Rifle


All powder charges are individually measured on an RCBS 10-10 scale.
The powder measule is kept over half full at all times for consistent weights.
Every charge is dropped using the same motions with the same force.
A powder trickler is used to achieve identical weights.
The powder is dropped into the case and the case goes into a reloading block.
When the loading block is full I seat the boolit/bullet.
OAL is measured at least every few rounds.
Loaded ammunition is boxed and labeled with headstamp, primer, powder charge, OAL, and loading date.


Pistol

Primed cases are loaded into my RCBS Piggyback at station 1
Station 2 is open
Station 3 is powder
Station 4 is a lock-out die
Station 5 is seat and crimp
I watch at each pull of the handle for powder measure actuation. I only pull the handle after visually verifying the powder level in the case while placing the boolit/bullet.
I check OAL every 10 to 20 rounds. I have encountered some comercial cast boolits that had so much hard lube on them that the lube packed inside the seater die.
When developing new loads I load single stage.


I've had a couple squibs over the years with the progressive, but they all occured when I was distracted or tired. I don't load anymore if there are distraction or if I am tired. Distractions would include TV, music, other people, the dog, etc. I also refuse to multitask.

I am very picky about my ammunition.

[Dragonheart]

I have been handloading for more than 50 years, my first press was single stage O type made by CH. I have gone through a lot of presses and now use two Dillon 650"s. Want to share is people have been blowing up guns ever since the first powder was rammed down a barrel and I can tell you they were were blowing guns up 50 years ago and will continue to do so because man is not a perfect animal. As they say "s--t happens" for a lot of different reasons and it doesn't make any difference whether you use a single stage or progressive; that's your choice if it works for you, great.

As for me I know my age has caused my to get easily distracted, some can't blame it on age. I use a progressive because I believe it is the safest way to reload as long as the machine stays in its cycle and all the alarms are working properly, but just like a computer "garbage in garbage out" and that applies to single stage also.

[captaint]

Excellent thread, CharGar. Sometimes things just need to be said. Not everybody deals with stuff the same. I'm a single stage handloader myself. The only problem I have with progressives is that inexperienced people use them with little understanding of the process - and the possible results. I may get a 550 one of these days myself, we'll see....

[FSR]

Reloaders use progressives. Handloaders generally do not.
This and OP speak with the wisdom of my Father. He never used a progressive press for rifle/pistol ammo but did try one for shot shell. Quickly discovered he didn't like it. I am 50 and started handloading and casting when I was 10.
My first centerfire rifle was the #5 Lee Enfield I still have it wandering zero and all.

[Dragonheart]

Excellent thread, CharGar. Sometimes things just need to be said. Not everybody deals with stuff the same. I'm a single stage handloader myself. The only problem I have with progressives is that inexperienced people use them with little understanding of the process - and the possible results. I may get a 550 one of these days myself, we'll see....

If you decide to go progressive may I suggest you go with the Dillon 650 instead, as I have owned the 450, two 550's and now two 650's. The cost is very little more for the basic 650 and you can add a case feeder later, which handles both pistol & rifle, it auto indexes, and has an extra station for a powder check making it a safer press, not that a progressive is any more dangerous that a single station. As far as more inexperienced people using a progressive I have to differ. Why, because it is so cheap to get into reloading using a single stage. Very few handloaders start out with a progressive because of the additional cost. It's not until they come over to my house and crank out a thousand handgun rounds in an hour and see the machine is just doing everything they do, only doing it in one step.

[ShooterAZ]

Great thread. I have had one Kaboom in 40 years of handloading. It was RIGHT after I bought a new Dillon 550. Double charge in my Kimber 45ACP. The only things that were damaged was the grips, the magazine, and my pride. I know exactly what happened, and from that point on I keep a light right over the press, and I don't stop the loading sequence until all cases are off the shellplate. A lesson learned the hard way.

[dead dog]

Keeping cases upside down is a good idea. I had a block of clean primed 357 cases that got filled by a dirt dobber.

[NavyVet1959]

Keeping cases upside down is a good idea. I had a block of clean primed 357 cases that got filled by a dirt dobber.

So, exactly where does dirt dobber fit in the burn rate chart? Before or after 20mm powder?

[s mac]

So, exactly where does dirt dobber fit in the burn rate chart? Before or after 20mm powder?

I think of it as more like an inert filler.

[NavyVet1959]

I think of it as more like an inert filler.

So, perhaps *slightly* slower than 20mm powder. :)

[Ola]

Before I pour powder out of the original can, I ALWAYS put a piece of masking tape on the side of the measure. And before I put the powder can down on the table I check the label AGAIN and write on the tape what powder I'm using. This method works for me.

[Alley Cat]

I seat a boolit right after I visually check that the correct amount of powder is in the case. With all of the mistakes that can be made while reloading, the one that can do serious harm is putting too much or too little powder in a case. Double checking the powder charge immediately before the projectile is seated is cheap insurance against a kaboom.

[dtknowles]

I seat a boolit right after I visually check that the correct amount of powder is in the case. With all of the mistakes that can be made while reloading, the one that can do serious harm is putting too much or too little powder in a case. Double checking the powder charge immediately before the projectile is seated is cheap insurance against a kaboom.

This is the truth. I do this no matter what press I use, single stage, turret or progressive. Would not think of loading any other way.

I am not sure if I am more fallible on a progressive or a single stage. I have had brain farts the single stage and I have been fooled by the mechanics on a progressive but I (knock wood) caught it and pulled the bullets. Most of my issues on the progressive have been upside down or missing primers not the powder charge. I can testify that I have made way more bad ammo on the progressive, I can screw up a few before I figure out I screwed up. One the single stage, you don't make many bad ones before you see you have a problem. I learned that I have to keep the batches small or I lose focus and start spacing out.

I don't like making ammo like a machine. If I need a lot of a particular caliber I would prefer to buy it. People have asked the question here before why do you miss .22 LR so much, well I miss driving by the store on my way to the range and buying a thousand rounds of ammo and knowing that I would be coming home with a few hundred to put on the shelf.

I reload mostly to make a point and to prepare for when ammo might be hard to find. I have a couple wildcats that I bought as an opportunity to learn case forming and achieve small groups to prove to myself that if a gun did not shoot I could know it was not me but the load or the gun.

I think we all should be a little bit chicken about each round. When in doubt, check it out. Think before you act. That impulse act can't be undone. We had a drill at work for hazardous ops, everyone had to report on many things but one was called your STUFF. It was a given that people could be having a bad day. You do this too, you know what is up sometimes with your coworkers.

Nobody had to go home because their STUFF was off but you did not put them on the Kill Switch. Don't reload when your STUFF is off. Don't get in a argument with SWMBO and then load a bunch unless you plan on breaking them all back down to components.

Tim

[Blackwater]

Well, I tend to load rather sizable batches of ammo, unless working up loads. When working up loads, I'll have prepped cases ahead of time - sized, primed and expanded. Then I'll load 5 or 6 at a time of various loads. These charges are generally weighed, usually by using Lee's dippers to get close, and tiny spoons to adjust the charge to get it right. I'll charge all cases, and the FINAL move is just to visually inspect cases for the right and uniform powder level height. If it's consistent, I'll then seat the bullets.

Normally, for larger batches, which are more usual, I size, expand and prime them in lots, usually of about 200-300 or so. Then I set my powder measure for the charge I want, and operate it with 3 knocks against the stops on the downstroke and again on the upstroke. I learned to do this long ago by testing the drops with a scale, and found it provides the best consistency of any method I could think of to try, especially with bulky or large grained powders. I even do it with ball, but that's just habit more than anything else. The knocks on the upstroke is to ensure that static doesn't let some grains stick inside the measure, and it knocks them loose - again contributing to consistency. After the tray of cases is charged, I inspect them in good light for the right and consistently uniform height in the cases. Any that vary are recharged and rechecked, then corked with bullets.

However, NO procedure is in itself any real insurance. It simply takes presence of mind and attention to detail to prevent kabooms, and I should know, due to my one single mistake that COULD have cost me big time. As the old timers used to say, "Once burnt, a lesson learnt." There really IS wisdom in that. I just hope you newbies don't have to learn that the way I did once. It really ain't much fun!

[Seeker]

I guess I'm a new born geezer. Ever since I first read this thread, I've been thinking about my routine. I had been starting with a batch of 50 in the tray, primers up. I then charge the case, set it back into the tray and move to the next. When the tray was all charged, I'd look them all over with a light then start seating boolits, then go through and crimp them all. Well, I just finished a batch of 50 with my new routine. Started with 50 cases in the tray primer up. I weigh the charge, charge the case and look in it. Then insert the boolit and seat it. When all 50 were done i changed the seating die to the fcd and crimped them all. I'm not sure but I think it was just as quick if not quicker. I have 2 single stage presses side by side and it worked great. Now I'm off to smelt some cowws.

[brassrat]

I will admit to an early squib and reformed. I was, and still are, using many dippers, although I have two nice droppers, but no progressive press. I keep, ready-to-go, brass, in a tray, primer down. The cases all get filled and, with a magnifying light, above, they get a good look, or five. Next they get a bullet and get set. I keep other brass off the bench because I think I grabbed some others and went straight to press, making an empty case or two, wasn't paying attention. Now they all get set in the tray and no, one at a time, charging. I can do hundreds, an hour, but all are primed, trimmed, flared and sorted, already.

[Ricochet]

Something I've only recently started doing is checking my charges (rifle loading) with my electronic scales, taring the empty case just before charging it, then checking it with the powder in it. I've found some with a lot bigger variations than I'd ever expected, and had been missing all these years with just setting it up and occasionally spot checking. My RCBS powder measure does NOT throw more precise charges than Lee dippers with consistent technique. The scary thing I've seen happen on several occasions with the RCBS is powder bridging the dump tube, throwing a light charge into the case being charged, then that powder dumps into the next one. That happens with extruded powders and flake powders. I haven't seen it with ball powders. I've noticed myself getting distracted in the process, and as an earlier poster said, it's easy to miss the charging stage and load a boolit into and empty case if you're not vigilant. Weighing the charged cases helps. Sometimes I find I've missed the taring stage. It's humbling to realize you can and do screw things up. It's vital to be alert, check and double check to be safe.

[MtGun44]

Ricochet!
My goodness, man. It is good to see you back. Is that a
real beard or part of a Santa costume?

I have not yet seen the bridging phenomenon, but I am now
using an RCBS electronic scale with feeder that seems to
largely eliminate the problem when loading modest quantities
of hunting and match rifle ammo.

Bill

[mozeppa]

i started 40 years ago as a newby reloading for dear old dad and myself.

took a 30 year hiatus from loading ...and am back ...and i too am kaboom -less

pay attention!

[Mike67]

I've been reloading for more than 25 years. I use single stage, turret and progressive presses and learned along the way and am still learning some of it from the great people on this forum, well more than some. The best thing that could have happened was the beginning I and my two best friends had a reloading mentor all those years ago in my one friends father. He taught the art of hand loading including bullet casting to the three of us and I consider myself very fortunate to have received this education a good many people starting out today in our hobby don't have that luxury.

[TXGunNut]

Good post, several good points. I use an RCBS ChargeMaster for most rifle rounds so I seat a boolit/bullet while the machine is weighing the next charge. I allow no distractions in the loading room, if I become distracted by something outside of the room I either ignore it or leave the room to deal with it. When I return I check everything before proceeding. Most of my mistakes have been related to distractions so I work very hard to keep them in check.
I'd rather not beat the single stage vs progressive horse here, this thread is about setting up a safe process and keeping it safe. Same concept actually applies to progressives, just works differently.

[fouronesix]

Been reloading since 1968. No kabooms but ever vigilant. I really don't care about the routine of others. Mine varies depending on type of ammo.

But basically it's: One complete step at a time for all cartridges- not multiple steps for each cartridge. All fired cartridges to be reloaded are held in loading block- neck up for all steps. I don't use any variety of progressive press or multiple function dies.

Inside neck brush all with mica/graphite mix. Roll lube all using pad. Resize and decap all. Clean all with solvent on rag. Clean all primer pockets. Trim all. Chamfer all mouths inside and outside. Neck expand all if for cast loads. Prime all. Fill powder measure. Charge all- either by powder measure or trickle and scale. Inspect all powder charges by looking directly into case. Pour powder that's in measure (and trickler) back into powder can from whence it came. Seat all bullets. Crimp all if load calls for crimp. Transfer all cartridges to range box. Record load data into load log book (each has a unique number). Place load number in range box with loaded ammo.

[BAGTIC]

I have been loading since 1960 without a single incident. I use, mostly, the same technique with one major exception. I do not put the cases in the block upside down. My powder measure extends far enough from the edge of the bench that I can charge while the mouth up case is still in the block. I move the block under the measure and fill the cases in place. If the measure hangs up or 'burps' I immediately dump the powder back in to the measure and recharge the case. When I have finished charging all the cases I give a block a few gentle taps to uniformly settle the powder. That way I can visually inspect the powder level in every case. If any seem abnormally high or low I can recharge that case. Only then do I begin seating the bullets.

[Horseman1]

Relatively new reloader, several years now (compared to some of you, I'm still in reloading 3 corner pants!). I have however, made a lot of rounds on my single stage press and had no problems relating to powder, pressures or safety. Since I reload for myself and my boys, I've taken as many safety precautions as I can discover/find and they have served me very well so far. I found the original post informative, useful and well written and many good comments. I was glad to see that it is very close to my current process, but I will revisit mine again after reading this and the replies here. Always something new to learn and better/safer ways to do things. Good to revisit once in a while before I get too set in my ways.

One thing I want to add to my setup, is install a light on the press to shine down into the case as my last line of defense before seating the bullet. I check after the powder drop and then again before seating a bullet. I currently use a flashlight and my geezer glasses and it is rather cumbersome.

H1

[PULSARNC]

I too use a very similar drill and am using a rockchucker to reload with .Problem is I had a big kaboom a couple of years ago Somewhwere on the forum are the details from back then .It was diagnosed as an S.E.E. by several competent gunsmiths . Even with care stuff happens

[Char-Gar]

I too use a very similar drill and am using a rockchucker to reload with .Problem is I had a big kaboom a couple of years ago Somewhwere on the forum are the details from back then .It was diagnosed as an S.E.E. by several competent gunsmiths . Even with care stuff happens

How can a gunsmith look at the physical remains of a destroyed firearm and tell it was a SEE vs. another type of over pressure load?

I really don't like to argue, but I need to say that I don't believe that stuff happens absent human negligence.

[PULSARNC]

Not trying to say I was not in some way at fault
Entirely possible I got distracted and screwed up

[PULSARNC]

Could easily been a double charge not trying to say i am perfect and don't make mistakes one gunsmith works with Wolfe Publishing ,which publishes Rifle and Handloader and the other is a several times state benchrest shooting champ and several time Army Combat Marksman winner with about 50 years exsperiance Did I xcrew up yes quite possible I did just will never know .What I have done is reboot procedure to try to ensure it will never happen again

[Char-Gar]

Could easily been a double charge not trying to say i am perfect and don't make mistakes one gunsmith works with Wolfe Publishing ,which publishes Rifle and Handloader and the other is a several times state benchrest shooting champ and several time Army Combat Marksman winner with about 50 years exsperiance Did I xcrew up yes quite possible I did just will never know .What I have done is reboot procedure to try to ensure it will never happen again

It is indeed possible for anybody, no matter how long they have been reloading to make a mistake. That is why we need multiple and redundant safety checks and the purpose of my original post. If there is enough redundancy in our safety checks, our screw up will be caught BEFORE the trigger is pulled.

If is not difficult for anybody familiar with firearms to determine if a Kaboom was caused by a barrel obstruction vs. an over pressure load. The gun dismantles in different ways. But I don't think it is possible to determine if the over pressure was a SEE (which is unlikely) vs. too much or the wrong kind of power or deep seating or multiple bullets seated. To split those hairs, we have to rely on what the shooter tells us, and most often they tell us there is "no way" they over loaded a round.

One of my abiding concerns about reloading today are the folks that say, as you did, that even with utmost care guns can blow up. Guns can blow up but the odds are very very great, that when they do, human negligence was the cause.

You say, that you will never know if you screwed up or not. When a fellow looks down at a destroyed firearm in his hand, he can safely assume that whoever loaded the round screwed up. The odds of it blowing up because of non-human negligence reasons is minuscule.

I really an not trying to pick on you or give you a hard time. But, you showed up here and joined in the thread. My goal is to impress on newer reloaders, just how dangerous this can be and that their reloading procedures should respect and reflect the danger involved. My gut tell me that many do not.

[PULSARNC]

No problem I chimed in to share my story the odds are I did screw up in some way believe me I have studied it closely I shared to show that even the most careful of us ,which I thought I was can screwup

[StromBusa]

I suspect that cellphones & reloading are not a good combination:lovebooli

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Should be a sticky to be read by new loaders....IMHO:goodpost:

[Blackwater]

I second the motion, Slow Elk. Can we get a vote?

[NavyVet1959]

I suspect that cellphones & reloading are not a good combination:lovebooli

Well, neither is drinking alcohol and posting on online forums, but ..... :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[DrCaveman]

Naw, sorry Navyvet, booze and the forum go well together, a WHOLE lot better than booze and un-labeled reloading. The forum is the place to speak your unfetterred mind... No publishers or Kaboom fairies waiting to rail your ****. No judgement, but honest feedback... No lawyers or lawsuit-minded people filtering their words for the sake of financial safety... Unfortunately this is not the case at all, as most people are blinded by lawyer recommendations or general pussitis.

Be a man, tread your own smart path that you have researched, and cop to your own mistakes. Its about as simple as that.

[mart]

Forty years with no kabooms. I will state that I had a stuck bullet in a barrel very early on because I didn't check the cases prior to seating a bullet. My technique since then has been to charge all the cases in the loading block and with a flashlight, visually compare every charge and verify every case is charged. If one case is double charged it will stand out like a sore thumb. The only reason I know that is because I've deliberately thrown a double charge in cases to compare the powder levels. In actual charging of a loading block full of cases, I've never thrown a double.

[NavyVet1959]

Naw, sorry Navyvet, booze and the forum go well together, a WHOLE lot better than booze and un-labeled reloading. The forum is the place to speak your unfetterred mind...

Spoken like someone who has not had armed government agents show up at their front door with a printout of numerous of their late night postings...

[DrCaveman]

This seriously happened to you? That is revolting beyond belief. I guess the SS is alive and well...

Now i admit i may say some dumb stuff after the sauce, and maybe get a little more sensitive and over-reactive to a certain comment, but govt agents as a result? That is crazy. Where has this world gone.

Sorry for your experience, no judgment intended.


Spoken like someone who has not had armed government agents show up at their front door with a printout of numerous of their late night postings...

[GrayTech]

Internet gun boards are replete with threads about blow up firearms and injured body parts these days, often with graphic pictures. Discussion abounds about metallurgy, design, an manufacturing tolerances etc, etc, etc., when in reality with about a 98% certainty, it was too much of the right or wrong powder that did the deed. Reloading can be destructive to the firearm and your body if the eye is not kept on the ball.

On such a recent thread, it was remarked that everybody makes mistakes and stuff like this was just part of the reloading game. I was quick to dispute that, saying along the way, that don't load over pressure rounds and have not done so in 57 years of reloading. In rapid succession, I was called arrogant, condescending and even someone who was not telling the truth. It seem inconceivable to some that a person could reload over a very long time and not blow up a firearm.

I was reloading a batch of 38 Specials today and thought I would take a few pics and add a few comments and notes to show how I do "no kaboom" reloading. Before you say it, yes, I know this is to slow and labor intensive for most folks these days, but this is the way I have been doing it for a very long time and have been kaboomless. No firearms has ever been damaged in the least now has anybody had even a slight injury. Well, I did trip over my own feet at the range once time and turn an ankle, but that was not reloading related. Here is now I do it;

1. Cases are sized, primed and mouth expanded and place upside down in a loading block.

2. My powder measure is checked for the correct charge each time I begin. I used fixed rotor measures or a battery of adjustable Lyman 55s, each set up for one charge. Even so I check the measure each time I use it.

3. I only have on powder out and I read the container aloud before I pour it in the measure. Murphy the shop cat does not seem to notice or be bothered by it.

4. I remove an upside down case from the block and look inside to make sure it is empty.

5. I charge the case with the measure.

6. I look inside the case again to make certain it has a powder charge of correct height.

7. I place a bullet into the case and start it by hand, replaced it in the block before I pick up another upside down case and repeat steps 4 - 6.

8. I then take the blocks with the charged cases and started bullets to the reloading press, where the bullets are seated and the case mouth crimped.

There will be no under or over pressure rounds in the batch..without exception, period!

Additional notes:

I much prefer a Lyman two step expander because it enable me to start the bullet and have it say in the case, in good alignment. I never shave lead from the bullet when seating by doing this.

This batch of cases are 1978 Lake City USGI 38 Special cases. I have about 5,000 of them. They are long lasting. I also have some WCC USGI brass and they are of lesser quality, but still usable. I also have some R-P USGI 38 Special brass, but they are junk. I load them once and eject them into a scrap bucket for recycling. I trim each case to a uniform length the first time I use it.

The bullets in the pictured reloads are good ol Lyman 358311 RN. I load this over 3/Bullseye for range use only. This is not a top end load, but I have about a dozen 38 Special handguns, some as old as 100 years and this pressure load will keep them shooting for several lifetimes more. When I see this RN bullet in a 38 Special case, I know what the powder charge is. This load will shoot every bit as well as a match wadcutter load, as least as far as I can determine, by holding the handgun in my hand and shooting at paper targets. I do load other bullets with heavier powder charges for other purposes.

I always try several loaded and crimped rounds into the cylinder of several sixguns (Colt and Smith and Wesson) before I load the batch. This prevents me from having to break down loads because they are over crimped and won't chamber properly. Best to take the time now, and not later after they are all done.

There is a VERY GOOD reason why the use of reloaded/handloaded ammo voids the warrantee on all firearms made. The manufactures know that anything less that total concentration and care can result in a damaged firearm and/or shooter. This is called a clue about how dangerous handloading can be when done improperly.

Now the pics;

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I have the same Lyman powder measure as seen in the first picture, but mine doesn't have the piston looking thing in the reservoir. Is it a weight to keep flow uniform? Did you add it or is that a newer upgraded model than the one I have?