Clyinder throat and lead bullets in revolver

[f55]

Hi All

First time reloading for revolver, i have a Ruger redhawk in 44mag. The cylinder throats are .4315 and i have some .433 cast bullets.

Are .433 to big to use of the cylinder throat is .4135

I can not drop or push bullets through each cylinder with out a dowel and hammer.

I have read conflicting things, one school of thought says bullets should be .005 smaller than throat and other school says .001 to 002 over throat size.

Should i just use reduced load?

Thanks.

[06ackley]

Personally I would try them and see what happens.Your gun may like the .433 boollits.I size mine at .432 and they work fine.

[DougGuy]

In a perfect world, a revolver's dimensions should let the boolit follow a course not unlike a funnel. The larger diameters at the back, and getting progressively smaller as the boolit's path leads it to the muzzle. This way, there will always be a seal that will preserve velocity and accuracy. Meaning that the boolit will need to be at least equal to groove diameter, most choose .001" to .002" over groove diameter, and the cylinder throats need to be .0005" to .001" over boolit diamter. This way the cylinder throats are not sizing the boolits down as they are being fired. You can start with a .433" but if your throats are tight, the boolit will be no greater than throat diameter when it hits the forcing cone.

Firing boolits larger than throat diameter is firing them into a known obstruction, no different than firing them into a heavily leaded barrel, it will increase pressure as it swages the boolit down small enough to force it through the tight spot. Accuracy generally falls off and leading in most cases increases dramatically when firing cast boolits through tight throats.

For the best results, ALL of a revolvers cylinder throats need to be matched to each other in size, as this dimension immediately affects how the gun recoils in the shooter's hands which affects where the boolit will strike. This is critically important.. You can always size boolits to match the throats, but having 2 throats at 432" with 2 more at .430" and yet 2 more at .429" and .431" will always shoot larger groups than a revolver with all throats consistently sized at .4325" or .4315" etc..


The cylinder throats are .4315 and i have some .433 cast bullets.

I can not drop or push bullets through each cylinder with out a dowel and hammer.

Should i just use reduced load?

Thanks.

No sir, you should size to .431" and use published load data.

[f55]

Thanks 06 and Doug

My cylinder throats are all approx .4315, I think i should be using .431 bullets in this case.

I have a .430 lube and size die coming, so i think i will start with honing it to .431 and try shoot those.

Thanks again.

[DougGuy]

When you hone the die, stop when the boolits are a light drag fit in the cylinder throats. You don't want them tight because depending on your antimony content in the alloy, boolits can and will grow in the months after casting and sizing as they "age harden." Not uncommon for boolits to fit through the throats when cast and sized, then you load them into cases and 2mos later they won't chamber! ASK me how I know THAT one! :bigsmyl2:

[murf205]

Thanks 06 and Doug

My cylinder throats are all approx .4315, I think i should be using .431 bullets in this case.

I have a .430 lube and size die coming, so i think i will start with honing it to .431 and try shoot those.

Thanks again.

f55, I have a Super Redhawk in 44 mag and my gun has the same dimensions as yours and I size my boolits to .430 and as yet I haven't found one that it wouldn't shoot VERY accurately. It REALLY likes the 310 gr Lee gas check boolit sized to .430 so I must recommend that you shoot some .430's through it before you open the sizer up to .430. Try some 250 gr Lyman #429431 boolits and 16.5 grs of Alliant 2400. You may never want for another load. Every Redhawk I have ever owned (4) loves this and it's a pleasant shooter with great penetration. Good luck. Murf

[f55]

f55, I have a Super Redhawk in 44 mag and my gun has the same dimensions as yours and I size my boolits to .430 and as yet I haven't found one that it wouldn't shoot VERY accurately. It REALLY likes the 310 gr Lee gas check boolit sized to .430 so I must recommend that you shoot some .430's through it before you open the sizer up to .430. Try some 250 gr Lyman #429431 boolits and 16.5 grs of Alliant 2400. You may never want for another load. Every Redhawk I have ever owned (4) loves this and it's a pleasant shooter with great penetration. Good luck. Murf

Thanks, I have some 240gr rounds already made at .430 with 7.6grn of unique, also have some 265gr which are .433 which i will try at .430.

I didn't want to shoot 430 in case it caused leading in the cylinders but will give it a try.

I will have to try A2400, i have only tried h110, and imr 4227. at magnum loads.

[roberts1]

Id try loading some with the sizing die as it comes first like murf205 is saying. If it works fine but if you open it up you cannot go back. Worst case scenario is a little lead to clean out of the barrel before honing the die out.

[f55]

Id try loading some with the sizing die as it comes first like murf205 is saying. If it works fine but if you open it up you cannot go back. Worst case scenario is a little lead to clean out of the barrel before honing the die out.
I will try this, as this is what i did with my .433, it started as a .430 and had to hone it to .433 to shoot my marlin 1894 44mag.

[DougGuy]

Shooting .430 won't lead the cylinder throats as there is 36,000psi driving it out of the case mouth with a full load. That boolit, unless it is BHN22 or harder, WILL slug to fill the cylinder throats before it even leaves the cylinder. Heavy for caliber Lee C430-310-RF boolit + 17.0gr 2400 = 1200fps from a 7 1/2" barrel. Soft lube like Felix, no leading and very accurate. 22.0gr H110=even faster. BTW, do NOT download H110... Stick near max recommended charges with H110 and you will be good.

[f55]

Thanks, i use 22gr with h110, so tomorrow wil try 430 and see how it shoots.




Shooting .430 won't lead the cylinder throats as there is 36,000psi driving it out of the case mouth with a full load. That boolit, unless it is BHN22 or harder, WILL slug to fill the cylinder throats before it even leaves the cylinder. Heavy for caliber Lee C430-310-RF boolit + 17.0gr 2400 = 1200fps from a 7 1/2" barrel. Soft lube like Felix, no leading and very accurate. 22.0gr H110=even faster. BTW, do NOT download H110... Stick near max recommended charges with H110 and you will be good.

[44man]

As usual, DougGuy is spot on.
Actually it does no harm at all to have throats a little larger then the boolit. My .44 has .4324" throats and shoots from .430" to .432" and if I can't see a difference, nobody can.
It is far worse to use the gun as a size die.
I found fit to the groove is much more important. Boolits will expand to fit and as long as you have alignment and don't slump boolits, you will be surprised.
Harder boolits, the way I drive them work best for me, just straight WW metal, water dropped.
For the 310 Lee, a GREAT boolit, I found 21.5 gr of 296 best. I don't use H110 so results might vary, it used to be 1/2 gr slower.
I also use nothing but a Fed 150 primer. CCI 300 also works. Been shooting the .44's since 1956 and never found a need for a mag primer. I cut groups by 2/3's with standards.

[44man]

I have had strange results with 296 and H 110 long ago. Most of my guns do not like H 110, SBH, SRH, and S&W's, preferred 296. But the RH loved H 110 and did not like 296.
Same stinking powder and the only difference was the batch burn rate sent to Hodgdon or WW.
Working loads NEVER made them equal either.
Since I have mostly BFR's now and 296 works best, it is all I buy. If I owned a RH, I would buy more H 110.
I know, I am crazy and many really think so.
DougGuy and I should live next door to each other, Never seen him say wrong and he is a craftsman.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks 06 and Doug

My cylinder throats are all approx .4315, I think i should be using .431 bullets in this case.

I have a .430 lube and size die coming, so i think i will start with honing it to .431 and try shoot those.

Thanks again.

You might want to just try shooting the bullets sized in the .430 sizer. I also have a Ruger with .431 - .4315 throats and the barrel groove is .429. With the RCBS 44-250-K cast of COWWs + 2% tin I've tested .429, .430, .431 and .4315 sizing and found the .430 sizer gave the best consistent results measuring the internal ballistics. There was not really a lot of practical difference between any of them. The sized bullets from my .430 sizer (Lyman H&I) actually measure .4304 BTW.

Thus I suggest testing the .430 sizer you get before honing, it may just be right as is.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Good call Larry. Too many tight butts. Just a few rules and some can be broken.

[f55]

I just got back from the range, fired 36 rounds total all at 10 yards

The first 6 shots are 7.0gr titegroup, last 6 shots are 22gr imr4227. These are my first shots with this revolver, i will need a lot more practice.

I will give the revolver a good clean but i don’t see leading in the barrel using 240gr Elmer Keith 18brinell at .430.

139740

139741

[44man]

4227 works super with a gun kept cold but if it warms you will string with low shots. Works in some calibers but not the .44. For some reason the burn will increase with heat in the .44. Velocity will increase as the gun warms.

[f55]

Which powder would you recommend for 44, 2400 or H110
4227 works super with a gun kept cold but if it warms you will string with low shots. Works in some calibers but not the .44. For some reason the burn will increase with heat in the .44. Velocity will increase as the gun warms.

[44man]

Which powder would you recommend for 44, 2400 or H110
Either one is good. For a RH H110 would be best but for the SRH, I would say 296.
I used a ton of 2400 back then and never had a complaint.
By the way, heavy boolits do not like to be shot too slow, the Lee 310 will be best near 1300 fps.
Another thing I found with Keith boolits 240 to 250 is they shot much better when very hard when using fast powders, not so critical with slow powders.

[Tar Heel]

Not uncommon for boolits to fit through the throats when cast and sized, then you load them into cases and 2mos later they won't chamber! ASK me how I know THAT one! :bigsmyl2:

Did you try to put 45 Colt boolits in your 44 again????

[f55]

Honed out the .430 size die to .4315
265gr sized to .4315
23gr W296 at 10 yards


140304

Barrel cleans easy when powder coat bullets are used.
140305

[44man]

Honed out the .430 size die to .4315
265gr sized to .4315
23gr W296 at 10 yards


140304

Barrel cleans easy when powder coat bullets are used.
140305
Looking better but for a 265, try 22 gr. I have the 265 RD and it will do 3/4" at 50 and 1-1/4 at 100 from bags using 22 gr and if I up it a little it opens.
Don't overdo it. Only thing is to not reduce 296 below starting loads.
296 is easy to work, you can go 1/2 gr at a time and watch groups tighten and then start to open again. Time to back down to the best. Even a little over will not spike but stay with accuracy because the .44 is all it needs to be.
I made a mold to fit my forcing cone and it came out heavy, 330 gr but is my best deer boolit, next to the Lee 310. I wanted to see drop at 200 yards for kicks so I went down. Hard to find a target I could see with the red dot that far but I shot 3 to measure. Darn thing drops 35 inches with a 75 yard setting but I got them into 1-5/16".140307 If I remember I shot Creedmore, no bags.
I start all load work at 50 yards. Anything over 1" is rejected and many Rugers have made it into 1/2".

[Mal Paso]

Which powder would you recommend for 44, 2400 or H110

I don't see a barrel length. I shoot 4" and 6" revolvers and favor 2400. Those shooting longer barrels seem to favor H110/W296.

44man is long barrel guy. He's got the barrel just a bit closer to the target. :wink:

[f55]

Ruger Redhawk 5.5" barrel.

[f55]

22gr it is for the next test. I just ordered 4 lb of H110 and 2 lb W296

I will try the Redhawk and the 1894 next time.

Thanks again.

Looking better but for a 265, try 22 gr. I have the 265 RD and it will do 3/4" at 50 and 1-1/4 at 100 from bags using 22 gr and if I up it a little it opens.
Don't overdo it. Only thing is to not reduce 296 below starting loads.
296 is easy to work, you can go 1/2 gr at a time and watch groups tighten and then start to open again. Time to back down to the best. Even a little over will not spike but stay with accuracy because the .44 is all it needs to be.
I made a mold to fit my forcing cone and it came out heavy, 330 gr but is my best deer boolit, next to the Lee 310. I wanted to see drop at 200 yards for kicks so I went down. Hard to find a target I could see with the red dot that far but I shot 3 to measure. Darn thing drops 35 inches with a 75 yard setting but I got them into 1-5/16".140307 If I remember I shot Creedmore, no bags.
I start all load work at 50 yards. Anything over 1" is rejected and many Rugers have made it into 1/2".

[WALLNUTT]

Just because a H&I die says .430 doesn't mean the bullet will be .430. Size and check diameter before you open up a die.

[f55]

Just because a H&I die says .430 doesn't mean the bullet will be .430. Size and check diameter before you open up a die.

Hi Wallnutt, if your referring to my post, I did try die first before opening it up. The first ones I tried did come in at .430 after sizing and my cylinder throat is .4315, so I opened the push through die to .4315