Trouble removing leading, or is it?

[RobsTV]

I have been working on these patches of what I presume to be leading. The triangular portions in photo below. Present like that in most, but not all grooves. S&W did recut forcing cone at one time. Mostly using copper chore boy wrapped around brush with tight fit. Also trying wrapping lead cloth, which works well in other tasks. Soaking in Hoppe's #9 at other times. In the rare cases I have had leading in barrel of other guns, it always came out fast with a few strokes of Chore Boy. Since nothing seems to be budging this, I am starting to think it might be machining tool marks or something else besides lead.

This is in an 8" S&W 500, 440gr GC sized .502, and using Carnauba red, it does occasionally lead near muzzle (uses up lube?). Easily removed. Am switching to PC and want to start off with clean.

[kweidner]

Looks like lead to me. You say gas check, interesting indeed. How fast are you pushing these?

[DougGuy]

You have one of them Hybrid barrels that they machined by Electro Chemical Machining. There is no forcing cone, there is forcing something but that's terrible workmanship on their part. The lands are real abrupt and there is a collection of circular machine marks in the ramps of the leade in.

What happens with them "fins" in there, they mash the boolit and engrave it, then once the boolit clears the fin, UNLESS it is soft enough with enough gas pressure behind it, gas can cut it's way past the gas check and up the sides of the boolit.

Those fins are a result of their ECM machining and if you know someone at S&W by name that you can send it to that would walk it back to the shop themselves, it might get rebarreled but I have heard of at least one other case where S&W refunded the money to a customer because they said all the barrels are like that.

[RobsTV]

Looks like lead to me. You say gas check, interesting indeed. How fast are you pushing these?

Usually around 1350fps.

[jcren]

Doesn't look like lead to me. Looks like a machining flaw.

[PbHurler]

DougGuy's right on.

There have been several threads here dating back to (at least) 2011 about those marks in your grooves. I have one myself in a 4" 629. I have a better looking forcing cone in comparison to your photo though. I don't see any leading issues with my loads in my 629.

Apparently this issue is a product of the "latest & greatest" electro mechanical machining by S&W. Damn shame.

Here is one of the threads about the issue; I guess since it's archived, photos aren't available but they looked exactly like what you've posted.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?124353-my-lead-rocketship-I-want-him-gone!!!

[JeffinNZ]

Would a good lapping session fix it?

[gloob]

Oh, wow. I thought I was looking at a fancy-pants crown with a new way to choke the muzzle. It would be pretty neat if they could get those machining marks in the muzzle end.

[Litl Red 3991]

That picture is worth 1000 words. And should save some of us thousands of dollars.

It pays to look into the barrel of any NEW pistol you're thinking of buying BEFORE you decide to buy it. I learned that a year or so ago when buying a couple of Ruger Vaqueros. One had heavy scratches just inside the muzzle. Bad news is, I discovered it while cleaning it before taking it out on it's first trip to the range. Good news is, it taught me to lap a barrel to overcome spot damage like that. Why didn't I send it back to Ruger? Same reason I won't ever buy another one. I bought two that day, and the front sight fell off the other one on that first trip to the range.

I seem to be snake bit when it comes to buying new guns.139583

That's the after picture. I didn't think to document it as I was floored and pissed.

[DougGuy]

Would a good lapping session fix it?

It would. The trick in this case would be to either cast or upset a lead lap in the middle of the barrel, and try to get it to go past the forcing cone at least once. Then put some compound on it and only work that first half inch of the bore until you could get a new lap to slide through it and smooth it out with the rest of the barrel.

Another way to fix it would be let a smith take the barrel off and Taylor Throat it in a lathe, or let Dave Manson custom make a Taylor throating reamer and do it in the frame. Either way wouldn't be really cheap but it would be a really good fix.

I had a really bad thread choke in a Vaquero and I Taylor throated it with a Clymer reamer and it fixed it quite nicely. It groups good, no leading, and with them big old Lee RF slugs, they are a perfect match for the Taylor throated barrel with their long bearing surfaces on the sides of the boolits. I would not think twice about throating the 500 S&W, I do not think you could hurt it.

[Litl Red 3991]

And sometimes you get brand new stuff that looks like this:

139600

This is an example of why Dan Wesson went out of business. That's a picture of a "forcing cone" in a barrel for a 32H&R mag pistol, one of their innovative designs that employed replaceable barrels. You could purchase complete fronts (barrel, barrel nut, and shroud with front sight) of 2", 4", 6", 8" or some longer lengths to swap onto your DW revolver. You gotta ask yourself how that barrel passed their quality assurance. But you don't have to ask yourself why they went bust. The shroud did happen to look perfect. Beautifully blued etc. But the most important detail... nah

I've gotta thank DougGuy for turning that into this:

139601 (it's not polished or blued yet)

[RobsTV]

Thanks for all the eye opening posts. Not what I want to hear, as I like to solve issues myself.

This has been back to S&W three times, once for spitting lead two stalls over, where they say they cut the forcing cone, another time to replace cylinder that had poor machine marks showing on outside, and final time was to replace the frame which was twisted a little, not allowing a rail to properly install. Have had similar experiences with other new S&W's like Bodyguard 380 and Shield 40. The tech's answer to my parts inquiry in regard to a lifetime warranty 4506-1, "sorry out of luck, no parts unless a tech can find one buried under his bench, and you must show us original receipt", and he double checked his facts while I was on hold for another 20 minutes, was the final straw. Have now switched to Ruger, which is also funny based on a post mentioning Ruger is just as bad.

Maybe Hi-Point really does know the way to do things... Had a 3rd or 4th hand well used $100 C9 9mm with poor extraction after thorough cleaning (was doing a 5 month, 700+ round, zero cleaning endurance test), and called to see about them sending a new extractor and spring. Tech answered phone on second ring, and after I told him it was well used and 3rd or 4th owner, he said send it back for them to go over. Less than 7 days after I sent it to them, had it back with a new slide, retail box with paperwork, sights and lock, plus an extra mag for my troubles. And they replaced all springs while they had it. All for free. Still one of the most accurate and reliable guns I own.

Photo of how the $1100 S&W 500 cylinder looked as shipped (after mothers polish), and other showing how tilted top strap was: