Pan or pot for range scrap?

[jayjay1]

What is better for making ingots out of range scrap, a pan or a pot?

What do you guys use and why?


Every info is welcome,
Jay

[gmsharps]

I use a cast iron pot that holds about 40lbs of lead. It sits just right over my plumbers furnace and keeps the heat concentrated compared to a more open pan. I use a spoon that is about 15inches long with slots in it to skim the clips and debris from the lead. I use a Rowell dipper to then ladle the lead into my ingots molds. I leave about two inches of molten lead in the bottom to speed up the smelting process when I add more lead to the pot. Never use Aluminum pots when smelting. They can and will burn a hole in the pan eventually and that opens up a whole new adventure.

gmsharps

gmsharps

[WRideout]

I use a smallish cast iron pot on a hot plate. It used to take forever to get a pot full of range scrap to melt, then I discovered that a lid over the top speeds things up considerably. A pan (like a small cast iron skillet) would seem to me to be very awkward to handle when full of lead. You can use almost anything (except aluminum).

Wayne

[SteveS]

I use a 2 1/2 quart, cast iron pot with a handle and two pouring spouts. Also has a good fitting lid. Easily holds 40 lbs. of alloy. I use a #2 ladle to pour the ingots.

139481

[tazman]

I use a small stainless steel cooking pot to melt my range scrap. I set it on top of an older Coleman bottle gas single burner camping stove. I can melt up to about 25 pounds of lead at one time in it.
Since I only have molds for 11 pounds of ingots, it works out well for me.

[bangerjim]

I use a plumber's furnace with a ~80# cast iron POT. Also have a 10# RCBS CU POT for small stuff. I would NOT want to trust a frying pan for re-melting lead. Too unstable when you pick it up by the handle.....and the temptation will ALWAYS be there to do just that!

Get a good CI pot or Dutch Oven. Or a steel tank cut in half as some do.

And make sure whatever you are using as a stove/heat source to re-melt over will support the weight of a full pot of Pb!!!!!! Coleman stoves are flimsy and can collapse with big weights. I use them for cooking food when camping..............NOT re-melting lead. Keep the weight down if using a camp stove.

[jayjay1]

I´ve used a CI pot til now, but it sometimes lasts pretty long until the lead melts.

So I thought, that a flat pan, with a larger surface, would speed things up a bit?

Or will I have to get a stronger gas cooker for that?
Mine has 8,5kW, is that to small?

[jayjay1]

I leave about two inches of molten lead in the bottom to speed up the smelting process when I add more lead to the pot.

gmsharps


This is definetely a good idea to speed things up.

But if your range scrap isn´t totally dry, like my stuff here, I wouldn´t recommend this without giving out a warning to prevent a "molten lead shower".

Just to make that point.

[mongoose33]

I´ve used a CI pot til now, but it sometimes lasts pretty long until the lead melts.

So I thought, that a flat pan, with a larger surface, would speed things up a bit?

Or will I have to get a stronger gas cooker for that?
Mine has 8,5kW, is that to small?

The greater the surface area of the pot on which no heat is maintained, the longer and more heat it will require to heat up.

You can make a shroud out of aluminum sheeting or similar that will carry the heat up the sides of the pot rather than allowing it to disperse to the sides. Here's a terrible pic showing two things: how to do it and my inadequate artistic skills:

139549

The shroud doesn't have to extend the entire height of the pot, just take the heat that would have been lost and direct it up the sides of the pot. It can be circular, sometimes it's conical. You can get aluminum flashing at the home store or hardware store that will suffice, and you can bend it into a cone shape (it's already in a roll).

You can also use, depending on the size of your pot, galvanized duct or anything that simply channels the heat up the sides of the pot.

[jayjay1]

Double tap, sorry.

[jayjay1]

Great input mongoose33, which makes sense.

So what if the shroud would go the whole way down to the ground?
And would a lid on the shroud be a good idea, to keep the heat inside?
Did you ever think about to dam your construction?

I was looking for some fire-proofed insulation some time before, but there were two problems:
1. most of the insulation on the market would stand the heat easily (glass or rock wool), but would fall into pieces pretty fast
2. I had no idea how to fix the insulation at my pot or construction

My thoughts were to speed up the process and to save some energy.

Any ideas?

[country gent]

I used a cast iron dutch oven for awhile it held 100+lbs. Over my weed burner it melted fast ( 40 mins or a little faster) but did crack from expansion. I now am using a pot made from 25lb propane cylinder ( holds 150lbs or so) over the weed burner and it melts in about 1/2 hour when completely full. I had one made that helpd almost 400 lbs and sat over a coal fire with a blower. Rendering cleaning lead I like larger batches is possible to have alot all the same to work with. If your using a flame or fire remeber that it takes oxeygon to burn and shielding to the ground and covering may starve for oxegyon also.

[mongoose33]

Great input mongoose33, which makes sense.

So what if the shroud would go the whole way down to the ground?

I suppose you could, don't see the reason why, unless your heat source is on the ground. I'm thinking more along the lines of a turkey fryer burner, something like that.


And would a lid on the shroud be a good idea, to keep the heat inside?

No it wouldn't unless your heat source is electrical; otherwise you will just starve the flames of oxygen. If you want to put a lid someplace, put it on the pot. THat'll help some, but lead melting isn't like water coming to a boil; energy leaves the water in the form of steam, not so much w/ the lead. :)


Did you ever think about to dam your construction?

No idea what this means.


I was looking for some fire-proofed insulation some time before, but there were two problems:
1. most of the insulation on the market would stand the heat easily (glass or rock wool), but would fall into pieces pretty fast
2. I had no idea how to fix the insulation at my pot or construction

My thoughts were to speed up the process and to save some energy.

Any ideas?

I wouldn't overthink this. Just directing the heat up the sides of the pot will give you significant gains. Insulating the side of the pot--if that's what you mean--simply prevents heat coming up the sides of the shroud from making it to the pot.

If you had a pot that was, say, 6" in diameter, that means the bottom is about 28.26 square inches to which you are applying heat. But if you can get that heat to go up the sides, and assuming there is 4" of lead in that pot, and assuming an outside diameter of 6 inches, you add another (pi * d * h or 3.14 * 6" * 4") or 75.36 square inches of surface that can heat the interior lead--or more than 3x more in surface area.

That's why it works--and why your greatest gains will come simply by putting a shroud around your pot and making that heat work all the way up instead of just on the bottom.

[jayjay1]

All right, got that so far.

But I see a kind of lid on your shroud, with holes in it or something.
Is that to held the heat in place or so?

[bangerjim]

If you REALLY want to re-melt lead, and lots of it effeciently, invest in a fish/turkey fryer or weed burner. HUGE BTU concentration is what you are after. A camp stove is very low heat concentration and takes a long time to melt large pots of lead.

I can melt 60-70# of COWW's or lead scrap in a matter of a few minutes (leaving an inch or so of lead in the bottom from batch to batch) from total cold in my plumber's propane furance.....similar BTU output to the aforementioned inexpensive heat sources.

With any of those you do NOT need worry about any home-brew shrouds or lids!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes cheap (old Goodwill camp stove) is not always cheap (time and effort involved).


banger

[mongoose33]

All right, got that so far.

But I see a kind of lid on your shroud, with holes in it or something.
Is that to held the heat in place or so?

It's not a lid. It's the foreground! It's open on top, has to be as you skim off dross, add more lead, dip out to fill ingots.

[jayjay1]

Ah, I see.

Just thought it might be a lid with holes in it, which you let on top until the lead is liquid.
Afterwards you can slow down heat anyway.

Thank you for your explanations and your patience with me.
:drinks:

[websterz]

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/websterzdesign/Mobile%20Uploads/20140929_092747.jpg (http://s797.photobucket.com/user/websterzdesign/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140929_092747.jpg.html)
Pot made from an old pancake style air compressor, base is an old steel chair and the burner is out of a natural gas water heater. I can do 200# of range scrap at a time. Melt time on a full load is about thirty minutes. The lid is made from the top I cut off the compressor but wasn't on when I took the pic.

[melw]

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/websterzdesign/Mobile%20Uploads/20140929_092747.jpg (http://s797.photobucket.com/user/websterzdesign/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140929_092747.jpg.html)
Pot made from an old pancake style air compressor, base is an old steel chair and the burner is out of a natural gas water heater. I can do 200# of range scrap at a time. Melt time on a full load is about thirty minutes. The lid is made from the top I cut off the compressor but wasn't on when I took the pic.

So you just connect it to the house gas line?
That must save some money over the cost of propane.
Nice job!
Mel W.

[Dragonheart]

I used to use a large cast iron skillet, but it took hours to melt down any quantity or range lead. I decided to make a pot from an out of date propane tank by cutting off the top and welding a 16 gauge sheet steel shroud around the exterior to trap the heat to increase efficiency. I still need to close the remaining holes at the top of the shroud. (see photo) I made a bottom pour spout by copying the design of my RCBS Pro Melt Furnace. The pot easily melts 200+ pounds of metal in a single batch and does to fairly quick considering the quantity. My last session I ended up with over 400 pounds of ingots in two batches. My problem now is I need more ingot molds to keep up with the pot.
140749

[Landshark9025]

I use the bottom of a freon tank because a friend gave it to me. He also made a ring for it to sit on to give it some stability. Then I took three small coffee cans and made a shroud around it similar to, but much more poorly executed, Dragonheart's design. I have deeper cuts in the bottom of my shroud so that it almost meets the wind shield from my turkey fryer. This directs the flames up the side and makes a big difference in heating.

If I fill it completely, I get about 35 lbs, or two complete trays of mini-muffin ingots and still leave about 1.5 inches at the bottom to speed it up next time. Takes me about an hour and 15 minutes to go from start to finish, so one batch in the evening is a nice way to end the day.

[websterz]

So you just connect it to the house gas line?
That must save some money over the cost of propane.
Nice job!
Mel W.

Yep, I have a gas line in my shop that feeds my furnace. I added a splitter and a ball valve so I could run a line to the lead cooker. It's not quite as hot as propane but my bottle will never run out in the middle of a batch. :-)

[fredj338]

Cast iron pot with the lid on loosely for melting scrap & turning it into ingots. I only put clean alloy in my bottom pour pots, one reason even my Lee pots don't leak/drip.