Unique Metering

[armednfree]

I just got done with 600 rounds of 40 S+W 170 grain Lee loads. I used 5.6 grains of Unique. I noted that the powder level seemed to fluctuate from 5.9 grains down to 5.3. The Lyman 49 manual shows 5.8 as the maximum charge. I could not see this fluctuation on the powder check die. I note in the current Alliant publication 6.7 grains is given as the maximum for a Speer GDHP. Because of that I am not worried about being a couple 10ths over the Lyman book.
I found that a seating depth of 1.2 to 1.3 inches feed fine in my pistols. Do to the seating issues I was having I set the depth to 1.3 inches and allowed it to float down to 1.2. The stated seating depth was 1.25 inches. Due to the maximum listed for the GDHP Ii am not worried with being over pressure on this even with the combination of a high charge and a short seat. I noted that a double charge does not fit in the case and allow a bullet.
These are not target loads they are combat drill loads. Keeping the inside an 8 inch paper plate at a maximum of 30 feet is all that's required. I no longer spend the time to make precision ammo if that is not whats required. Even though with my XD tactical at 21 feet (normal combat drill range) the test on this load stacked many in the same hole when slow fired.

Thoughts?

[Blackwater]

If you're dropping from a powder measure, try knocking the handle 3 times on both the up and down strokes. This vibrates the whole deal and tends to settle the powder more consistently. Also, be sure to use the SMALL cavity of your measure to load pistol rounds. It's MUCH more accurate than adjusting the large cavity down for small charges. Unique is a flake powder, but tapping the handle 3 times makes it meter very well. I've used this technique for decades, and can't recall where I first read or herd it, but it sure helped my pistol loading. Consistency is, after all, the route to accuracy, and little things like this really DO matter.

[texassako]

What powder measure? Are you trying to consistently throw the powder the same way every time? I have several measures since some powders work better in some measures, but sounds like you are using a progressive press and might need to stick with the measure you have.

[armednfree]

the measure is a uniflo and it is mounted in a progressive press.

[country gent]

I have some questions about the variations your getting 5.9 grns drifting down to 5.3 grns is this also with the powder in the hopper getting lower? installing a baffle in the hopper may help if it is. Is the measure operated by the press or hand operated? Consistency of the measures operation is critical to throwing charges. Uniuqe normally meters decently a few tweeks may help with the charge issue. The next is the seating depth variation you listed of 1.3 floating down to 1.2, If Im reading this right thats just shy of an 1/8" in length (.100 1/8" is .125) That is alot to vary. Seating depth should be prety consistant with a good fitting seating stem. under .010 Im going to assume with cartridge listed you meant 1.03 to 1.02 which is .010 and much more inline. A simple baffle can be cut from a well cleaned and dried plastic pop bottle. Cut a section and lay out 2 points on center line 3/4" apart lay out the radiouses ( half dia of powder hopper) 1 from each point on center line On center line and edge of baffles in center of radious punch 2 half holes with 1/2" - 3/4" punch. fold in half 90* to centerline and install in hopper leaving it aout 3/8-1/2" above bottom of casting hopper junction. You can experiment with hieght to see where your measure likes it at. This helps to negate hopper level pressure affecting fill.

[Eddie17]

Thanks you for this info, just picked up 8lbs of this !

[Shiloh]

It is usually around 1/10th grain, or a hair more. Thats the nature of Unique. One of my all around favorite powders.
AA#5 meters right on and is similar to Unique.

When you get a rhythm going, I can get less than 1/10 accuracy.

SHiloh

[dubber123]

Country gents suggestion of a baffle and consistent operation is good advice. I make my baffles from primer box card board. It helps a bunch with some powders. You should be able to get a Uniflow with Unique to stay within a tenth or two easily. Have fun.

[Jack Stanley]

Another thing to try would be a funnel . The one I have reaches to the bottom third of the measure . I fill Unique to touch the bottom of the funnel then about half the capacity of the funnel . Operate the measure twenty times or so to settle the powder then load as you want . Keep adding powder to the funnel as needed .

Jack

[ItZaLLgooD]

Hopefully you meant 1.120 - 1.130. That would be a little more like it. I usually stay within 0.005" but there is always a piece of brass that doesn't play nice.

As far as Unique goes +-0.1 is about what I see. Is this press and measure new? Maybe there is a static issue. I wiped the inside of the hopper and the disks with a used dryer sheet. When it was new there was more variation. After a while it settled down pretty well though.

[Petrol & Powder]

Unique doesn't meter as well some ball powders but it meters close enough. I weigh every charge when loading rifle cartridges but life is too short to weigh every handgun round. When loading handgun rounds on a progressive press I prefer to use a powder than meters well but it isn't my sole criteria when picking powders. When loading on a single stage press I still use a powder measure to charge the cases and occasionally check the weight of the powder. I find that even with powders like Unique, I can get the weights to run consistent within .1 of a grain, that's close enough when you're way below max pressures.

Now, if I'm loading magnum cartridges close to the upper limits, I'll check every charge. I load so few max pressures round that it is a small inconvenience for safety.

Powders like 231, CFE Pistol and WSF meter beautifully. They're usually spot on.

[Motor]

the measure is a uniflo and it is mounted in a progressive press.

I've been using my Uniflow since 1985, (just a little back ground). I use the small drum for everything up to .308 Win and I have a baffel. I just started using the baffel about 2 years ago.

I typically see +/- .2gr max fluxuation using Unique but thats the extream. Its a little worse with Hogdon's Clays and better with Bullseye.

I honestly can't say if the baffel is helping or not but for what it cost I figured it can't hurt.

I'd say what you got is typical and if you try the advice the other guys suggested you may be able to get it to do better.

Motor

[KAF]

How much powder goes UN-burnt in a pistol cartridge? Lots, check the floor at a indoor range when you stop shooting for the day. That small amount of difference in a pistol charge will not even be noticeable on the target

[muddcatt54]

I have the Lyman 49th Edition also theme difference between the applicant site and the book is concerning the book shows 6.7grain to be for 135 and150 grain I've only been loading pistol bullets for about a year so I've a lot to learn

[Vulcan Bob]

With my UniFlow I found this helps with Unique. Fill hopper 3/4 full, tap on the side of measure a bit to settle powder, set to approximate setting for charge required, then throw 12-15 charges smacking the handle top and bottom of the throw, run the handle smartly. Then adjust to desired charge weight. This seems to settle the Unique more consistently for more accurate throws. Don't let hopper volume drop more than 1/2 full.

[ohland]

I typically see +/- .2gr max fluxuation using Unique but thats the extreme.

Ditto. When I was working my Uniflow, small cylinder, w/mic, I was throwing about .1 under (by design). My 7-30 probably wouldn't notice .1 over at 8.5 grains...

[44man]

It is the progressive, all kinds of different shaking going on. Each station you start with jostles the powder.

[prs]

I used to get what I thought to be unacceptable charge variation with my Lee ProAuto Disc measures and Unique on my Loadmaster. Selecting the disk while every stage of the Progressive is in operation helped some, settling the powder by tapping the side of the hopper several times before operation helped some, keeping hopper half full to full helped some, making sure the powder through die grasped the inside of the case so that withdrawal of the die jars the press a little helped a little, adding a baffle helped a LOT. Even Trailboss meters well if all these steps are done.

I am more concerned about your reported COAL variations. That may be a problem in the set-up of your press, wobble in the shell plate or such??? Press motion limited by a die adjustment instead of coming to a stop on the press stops???

I try not to extrapolate loading data between different types of components, but when such is necessary, DO drop the charge and work-up looking for trouble signs as you go.

prs

[flintlock62]

If you're dropping from a powder measure, try knocking the handle 3 times on both the up and down strokes. This vibrates the whole deal and tends to settle the powder more consistently. Also, be sure to use the SMALL cavity of your measure to load pistol rounds. It's MUCH more accurate than adjusting the large cavity down for small charges. Unique is a flake powder, but tapping the handle 3 times makes it meter very well. I've used this technique for decades, and can't recall where I first read or herd it, but it sure helped my pistol loading. Consistency is, after all, the route to accuracy, and little things like this really DO matter.

I was about to suggest the same thing.

[nannyhammer]

Make sure that you powder measure is real tight in the press frame. Mine started doing weird things while loading and figured out that the measure was getting loose as the reloading session progressed. This caused powder charges to vary since it can prevent all of the charge from flowing into the case. Unique is the only powder that I've had it happen with.

[BAGTIC]

That unburned pistol powder at the range is probably the result of an obsession with getting the highest velocities at any cost. That often results in use of maximum charges of inappropriately slow powders. It is possible to get reasonable ballistics safely with almost complete burn by selecting faster powders.

[Litl Red 3991]

Powder that is actually spherical is the only shape that meters really accurately. Unique isn't one of those. Think it's bad? Try some Red Dot or any of the popular flake powders and you won't think Unique is bad. And don't let the "ball powder" label fool you. Some of it started as little spheres, but got flattened to adjust the speed.

The poorly metering stuff doesn't usually affect POI noticeably at pistol ranges.

There is one caveat.... poor uniformity of metering DOES matter when you're loading way down for real target loads, like 650-700fps WC loads. And the way it matters is you get squibs when the flake powders bridge and don't fill up the measure's cavity fully.

[44man]

I bought a Lee progressive for some loads, removed the auto index rod so I could turn by hand. No measure on it, I use my Redding. The press would not go over center so I fooled with the linkage to make it work. I did not like the feel.

[country gent]

Sperical powders sometimes throw better but with consistant operation a clean static free measure and a good measure most powders meter acceptably accurate, even stick type powders. A measure matched to the charges being thrown is a benifit also. I have had other issues with ball powders tying up measures leaking and static effect. You want an eye opener throw some charges with a brunos or Harrels powder measure once. Adding a baffle is quick simple and easy to do and helps with the hoppers fill loading the measures drum diffrently. Consistant operation Same speed of operation smae bump at start and end of stroke aids in fill of cavity. A solid mount holds the measure and lowers inconsistencue from vibrations. One reason the progessives measure throw so well is the consistency of there operation thru the press handle, very close to same speed and force stop to stop. Throwing consistant charges is a learned skill that takes time. One way to learn this is set up and throw charges recording the drops and seeing what the measure is doing throw in groups of 100. Change technique and throw another 100 see the change. You will find what works for you and your measure.

[lightload]

Has anybody tried attaching a very small vibration device to his powder measure? I've toyed with the idea. Quite a few companies offer miniature vibrators that have various industrial or technical uses. Over the years I've used many different powder measures and learned long ago that a rigidly mounted base and practiced technique make them all work well.

[Indiana shooter]

Has anybody tried attaching a very small vibration device to his powder measure?*

I have and it works great!!! I came up with the idea during the worst of the shortage when I bought 4 lbs of 800X. All I knew about that powder was that I had data for it in .45 ACP, 9mm, and .44 mag.

When I got home and opened up the container I knew I was in trouble. I started with the 9mm and low and behold it was throwing +/- 1 gr. I got the idea of using a vibrator, I went out to the garage and grabbed a battery powered airiator and clipped it to my hopper. I am now able to keep 800X within +\- .1 gr and my unique is spot on.

[robg]

I use true blue now because it meters far smoother than unique,its cleaner too

[Blackwater]

Vulcan Bob's suggestion of tapping the hopper to settle the powder is a good one. I have Ohaus, RCBS and Pacific measures and use that with all of them whenever I'm using a powder type (flake or long grain extruded) that doesn't tend to meter as uniformly as I'd like, and it definitely helps. You can actually see the powder settle as you tap it. I usually grab the hopper with my left hand firmly but gently, and slap the hopper lightly but firmly with my right palm and/or fingers. About 10-15 taps gets the powder settled well enough that it makes a difference. That with 3 taps up on the handle and 3 on the downstroke makes a significant difference. MUCH more uniform than simply dumping powder in the hopper and lightly working the handle once in each direction. It's the best way to skin this cat that I've found, but always looking for better ones. I have an idea that the speed of commercial machinery keeps factory loads pretty consistent when they use flake powders, and the tapping is just a manual emulation of that.

[BenW]

Some powder measures just won't work well with some powders. My Lee Perfect Powder Measure just flat out will not work with 800x. The Lee Auto-Disk works ok. After testing 300 throws, both with constant powder level and lowering powder level, I found I had a 1 in 10000 chance of throwing a charge 0.4 grains too high (1 in 10000 is my acceptable level of risk).

Large flake powders seem to work better with bushing style measures rather than rotating chambers.

One last note: the Lee auto-disk chart is not accurate with flake powders like 800x. The smaller disk holes do not seem to fill up as efficiently as the larger ones (the chart is more accurate with higher loads than lower ones).

[gloob]

I'm the other way on this. I avoid tapping on the powder measure, especially when the measure is in the open/fill position. I keep the measure in the closed/throw position until I'm ready to throw a charge, and in that position, I don't care one way or the other if the measure gets banged or tapped. When I'm ready to throw a charge, I move the arm to the fill position, gently, so as to not hit the endstop with force. Then immediately drop the charge. Fact, the instructions with my PPM suggest as such.

I know this is impossible to do with most progressive setups. But what this does is to avoid variation that is caused by tapping/condensing the powder to varying degrees.

I don't give a rat's behind about powder baffles or settling the powder in the hopper, either. When you move the measure to the fill position, it doesn't matter how condensed or loose the powder in the hopper is. It spills/tumbles loose into the metering cavity through a narrow conduit, creating a fragile, randomized house of cards, supporting the (now-also-loose because some of the powder just moved) column of powder above it. If you throw it like that, it is pretty consistent. Yes, it's random, but when you randomize hundreds or thousands of little grains, you get something that is pretty regular. If you tap it, the house of cards partially collapses and it will throw heavier... but it can, in fact, be less consistent, because the house-o-cards can collapes in unpredictable ways, possibly leaving more or less pockets of air left standing where the flakes are lined up wrong, compared to the original, fluffier configuration where there are a larger number of air pockets but perhaps a more consistent number of them. Again, this can't necessarily be applied to progressive setups.

Some powders and measures might respond well to tapping or vibrations, I'm sure. But I wouldn't assume it will always be better.

[44man]

You will learn your measure and with 296 in my Redding I do not tap, just a smooth swing to a tap at bottom.
It is a sudden jar that can make powder jump that causes most problems. Tapping or vibrating can work fine but progressives have many cases in one operation with different forces and bounces. Even auto rotate can move powders.