Casting for others

[DMCasts]

A friend gave me a Lee 6 cavity moldto cast 2oo gr. with the idea if I wanted to keep the mold in appreciation to casting so far about 700 rounds of lead, I decide to keep the mold as payment or as far as doing him a favor.
He gave me a coffee can of wheel weights to get started but I used my ingots for which I melted down a few years back.
If I should go further in helping him out as far as doing anymore casting not that i'm not willing to help him out but he said he'd pay me beyond anymore casting beyond what he gave me the mold for as payment.
Anybody here have and idea about what I should charge him for?. I don't know where to begin, he said he'd provide the lead but as far as my time I don't know any formula for to ask him how much i'd do it for.

Thanx

[Garyshome]

Well how long does it take you to cast 100 boolits? X the per/hour rate you want.
There may be other charges like electricity or propane to add into the equation.
Casting is hard work, very grueling. My casting sessions usually run at least 4 hours usually more.

[Gofaaast]

Double the cost of the lead or $2.50 a pound, whichever is greater.

[Gtek]

May I recommend you visit the BATF sight and research the terms associated with the manufacture of ammunition and components. The forked tongue devils have laid many a trap in their words. Read up on this issue and decide your coarse.

[Bzcraig]

May I recommend you visit the BATF sight and research the terms associated with the manufacture of ammunition and components. The forked tongue devils have laid many a trap in their words. Read up on this issue and decide your coarse.

This is what I was thinking. Should probably consider a trade.

[runfiverun]

split the lead he brings you.
cast what he wants with 'his half'.
cast what you want with 'your half'.

the atf is a non issue if you do something similar to this.

[bangerjim]

Use Missouri Bullets or one of the other com-cast companies to help set your pricing guestimates.

Are lubing them for him also???????? Lots-o-work for you. And who will he blame when he gets leading? Or mis-fires?

I personally would never ever enter into such an arrangement. If someone wants boolits, cast 'em themselves. Very simple process.

[fredj338]

A 3-1 trade would be fare; 3# of lead for 1# of bullets. That assumes a 6cav mold & say tumble lubing & Lee sizing. Just depends on how easy it is to get alloy or he much you want to do.

[Litl Red 3991]

A Lee 6-cavity is about $40 nowadays, brand new. Brand new handles about $13. He was paying a debt to you if I understand your OP.

Do you know any skilled labor that costs less than that an hour?

So you're supposed to smelt coffee cans of wheel weights, then cast, lube and size the output? for how long? If you've already done 700 bullets, he owes you some money. Be a friend and tell him you're even. Otherwise, he already owes you something.

[rr2241tx]

Return his mold so he can cast his own bullets. Buy yourself a mold and enjoy being a free man instead of an indentured servant.

[Love Life]

$400 per thousand seems fair to me.

[Shiloh]

If this is a trade, there are no BATF issues. Casting for profit requires some sort of license.\
See post #4

Shiloh

[RogerDat]

Coffee can of wheel weights? How far does that go in 200 gr. chunks after the work of smelting and cleaning?
Figuring your time and consumables such as propane/electricity/lube & wear on any equipment such as electric casting pot being traded for lead or brass makes sense but has to be a fair exchange. Depending on how good a friend this is as to where that "fair" point is located.

Now if your friend got 700 bullets and you got a $40 mold with $13 handle. I'm thinking they are already way ahead. Box of 500 store bought cast lead lubed would be more than the mold & handle. Going forward all I can say is a good friend is one that values your effort and cost as much as they do the bullets they get out of it. The ones that figure "fair" is them getting a bunch of goodies because "we're friends" sometimes are more like leaches.

[High Desert Hunter]

I really couldn't find anything on the BATF website that would hinder his selling his friend bullets, now, where he lives may require a business license, but since he is not importing or exporting components, I really didn't see it covered. I did find this little blurb;
Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.
Items NOT covered include blank ammunition, tear gas ammunition, pellets and nonmetallic shotgun hulls without primers.
Generally, no records are required for ammunition transactions. However, information about the disposition of armor piercing ammunition is required to be entered into a record by importers, manufacturers, and collectors.
A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17) and 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.125]

[fredj338]

A Lee 6-cavity is about $40 nowadays, brand new. Brand new handles about $13. He was paying a debt to you if I understand your OP.

Do you know any skilled labor that costs less than that an hour?

So you're supposed to smelt coffee cans of wheel weights, then cast, lube and size the output? for how long? If you've already done 700 bullets, he owes you some money. Be a friend and tell him you're even. Otherwise, he already owes you something.

I agree, the debt was paid. If he wants to swap alloy for bullets, you are smelting, casting & lube/sizing anyway, so it's just a matter of time value vs what you can buy alloy for. Figure $1.25/# delivered for clean scrap in ingots bought here, & go from there.

[TCFAN]

I don't like casting for other people. If I have too then they have to provide the boolit metal. If they bring 50 pounds and don't want me to size or lube then I will make them 25 pounds of boolits.If they want them sized they will only get back 15 pounds of finished boolits..........Terry

[mongoose33]

I really couldn't find anything on the BATF website that would hinder his selling his friend bullets, now, where he lives may require a business license, but since he is not importing or exporting components, I really didn't see it covered. I did find this little blurb;
Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.
Items NOT covered include blank ammunition, tear gas ammunition, pellets and nonmetallic shotgun hulls without primers.
Generally, no records are required for ammunition transactions. However, information about the disposition of armor piercing ammunition is required to be entered into a record by importers, manufacturers, and collectors.
A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17) and 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.125]

But there's this:

Is a license required to engage in the business of selling small arms ammunition?
No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of ammunition must be licensed.


And of course, bullets are defined as "ammunition." You can sell and trade them, but manufacturing would appear to require a license.

[bangerjim]

I don't like casting for other people. If I have too then they have to provide the boolit metal. If they bring 50 pounds and don't want me to size or lube then I will make them 25 pounds of boolits.If they want them sized they will only get back 15 pounds of finished boolits..........Terry


What I tell them: "come on over.....I will TEACH you how to cast your own boolits! But I will NOT do it for you."

Similar to the difference between Dems and Reps:

Dems - Give a man a shovel, and he will starve to death.

Reps - Give a man a shovel and teach him how to use it and he can feed his family.

bangerjim

[gwpercle]

Over at Midway you can get Laser Cast 45 acp , 200 gr SWC, $65.00 for 500.
6 cavity Lee mould plus handles comes to $52.00.
As I see it casting him 500 boolits should pay for the mould. And if you wanted to be nice, charge him $50.00 or $55.00 for 500 boolits.
I don't think the fed's are going to be after you for selling a few boolits to you're friend...let's hope they are after much bigger fish than you. If not we all in BIG trouble.
Buy yourself a new Lee mould, they've improved them and you and he can both sleep at night....ATF raids are so upsetting.
Gary

[Handloader109]

A 3-1 trade would be fare; 3# of lead for 1# of bullets. That assumes a 6cav mold & say tumble lubing & Lee sizing. Just depends on how easy it is to get alloy or he much you want to do.

Well, 200 gr bullets give 35 per pound. So with my cost of castable lead being $1.20 or so a pound, you have cast him $25 worth of lead. With your electricity, and time, you are debt free. I agree with the above, bring me good castable lead, (not wheelweights) and I'll cast 3 for one. No money exchanges hands, no issue. That would best I'd do.

[dragon813gt]

$400 per thousand seems fair to me.

I'd go $399. It's a mental thing and $399 seems like a lot less money ;)

Since you posted this question on a public forum I would not exchange any money. The BATFE is not very consistent. Better safe than sorry if you ask me

[David2011]

By the letter of the law there are two licenses required. One is the BATFE FFL to be an ammunition and ammunition components manufacturer. IIRC it's $40 for 4 years. If I don't remember correctly, it's in that vicinity. The snag is that the State Department who has decided that this is their business as an export license, even if you never export a single piece of cast lead. They're proud of that license, too, at $2500.00/year. If they want to get persnickety (remember, fun loving John Kerry is head of the State Department) you can go to jail for selling boolits without their blessing.

I'll let friends that want to learn to cast bring their own metal and trade it our for refined ingots at a ratio I feel covers my costs, effort and the additional metals we'll add to the alloy. I'll show them how to figure the hardness they need, blend an alloy and each them how to cast. Then I'll teach them how to lube and size on a Star. That way no one is indebted to anyone. Since they're using my equipment to make their boolits I don't see how it would run afoul of the law.

David

[High Desert Hunter]

I called the Albuquerque ATF office, you would require a type 6 FFL ( https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5310-12.pdf ) which has a fee of $30, now if you are exporting, that is another ball of wax. I have been asked to do the same thing, so this answered my question as well.

[Bzcraig]

$400 per thousand seems fair to me.

What kind of boolits can I cast up fer ya brother?

[xacex]

What at kind of boolits can I cast up fer ya brother?
At those prices you can have the pick of the litter.

[cajun shooter]

You can't use commercial bullet companies to figure out your cost of doing things in reloading as they deal in tons of lead when they purchase. They also use automated machines which cost thousands of dollars and many workers to keep them going.
The casting of a few hundred bullets by one person with one mold and working by himself pales in comparison.
There is no way that you can cast bullets for another person and come out ahead unless you just want to do it as an exercise in futility. Bullet casting can be hot, hard work and is a fine line of what one can call fun unless it's for your own use and gratification of doing so. Take care David

[mongoose33]

You can't use commercial bullet companies to figure out your cost of doing things in reloading as they deal in tons of lead when they purchase. They also use automated machines which cost thousands of dollars and many workers to keep them going.
The casting of a few hundred bullets by one person with one mold and working by himself pales in comparison.
There is no way that you can cast bullets for another person and come out ahead unless you just want to do it as an exercise in futility. Bullet casting can be hot, hard work and is a fine line of what one can call fun unless it's for your own use and gratification of doing so. Take care David

It all depends on what one wants. Can you do it for the same profit margin as the big boys? Perhaps--an individual doesn't have the same overhead.

A lot of people fund their shooting hobbies by trades and such. Some collect brass, clean it, then sell it online. Others reclaim range lead, melt it down and sell the ingots. Still others may do boolits. They do this so as to not impact the family budget any more than they have to.

They're trading time, with which they were not making any money anyway, and trading it for money. It's not like working an hourly job so it can fit in wherever they have time and inclination.

And if they're just adding on to what they're already doing, making the odd $50 here and there allows one to buy primers or powder when available or on sale, additional equipment, and so on. It may simply be a way to amortize the cost they have in their own equipment, i.e., paying for the pot, the mold, the powder-coater, the toaster oven, whatever. And in the end, they'll decide if the money they make is worth the time and effort.

[pls1911]

I do cast and load for friends, and wouldn't think of selling rounds, or asking for anything in return. I consider the effort as paying it forward, encouraging others into the past time.
When I set up to cast, it's with gang molds and a pile of bullets are thrown.
I'd have to say so far I've come out ahead for just doing good turns, considering the tangible hardware, and the intangible satisfaction of bringing smiles to other folks.

One friend provides me with roofing lead....over a ton so far.
Another sent me his cherished pride. I had to buy a new safe to "hold 'em" for him.
Another got his Grandad's old lever gun shooting again... it's ugly and has a rough bore, but wow...it's a SHOOTER!!
Another gave me a keg of Reloader 7 and 2K primers.
A bunch of city boys gained center fire experience through a boy scout camp out (nearly 500 rounds of 30-30)
The next year it was Buffalo guns at 300 yard steel. (Lots of lead down range that year!!)
One young friend gave me a knife he made, and sheath from an old boot upper. It was crude at best, and honestly pretty worthless as a knife, but it's value came in the young fellow's pride in his labor and the joy of having it so warmly received by an adult. It remains among my own cherished pieces.

The list goes on, and I'm lucky that no one has become one of those folks we dread.... those who expect free service on demand and become a burden.
Some of my friends are from grade school, some are recent acquired.
All are good folks, and everyone still tries to do a good turn daily.

[JSnover]

Legalities aside, I don't like the idea unless the other person knows their barrel dimensions so they can be sized properly. The first time he accused me of leading his barrel would be the last time I cast for him.
A buddy of mine got me interested in BPCR years ago. He and I would occasionally cast for each other or lend molds back and forth but we each knew what we needed.

[BenW]

Any compensation, whether it be for cash, componants, or materials might be considered "for profit". Even if by the letter of the law it is legal to do, remember what our masters, praise be their name, may interpret what is not readily understandable by our measly peasent intellects.

[High Desert Hunter]

I cast for friends all the time, think nothing of a hundred bullets here or there, have had friends ask me to sell bullets, just not worth the hassle of getting the license, even if it's only $30, I'll not be generating that kind of volume. I will continue to cast for the few close friends I have because I find it enjoyable and therapeutic.

[BenW]

Also, whether you are actually exporting or not, you will need to register under the International Trade in Arms Regulations (ITAR). If you are manufacuring Arms Technology for sale, you HAVE to register ($2500).

And just a note: an export is defined as providing material OR technology to a foreign person. A foreign person is someone who has a non-US birth certificate OR is an employee of a foreign company.

These are scary regulations, with penalties on par with those for trafficking narcotics. They are also almost impossible to understand without years of training.

Like I said, our masters don't like what we do and will make it as easy as possible for us to commit felonies.

[Hickory]

The land of the free & the home of the brave?

Read on;

http://www.wsj.com/articles/regulation-run-amokand-how-to-fight-back-1431099256

[TXGunNut]

Give a man a fish.....

I only cast for other casters, if he wants more than 20-30 samples he can buy a mould (in some cases borrow mine) or buy commercial. Just boxed up a care package of 38-55 dies, brass and boolits for my shooting buddy who's waiting for backorders to ship. I'll generally ship samples for the asking to members here if I have them available. I've benefitted from the generosity of others and I'm only too happy to pay it forward. But if someone just wants to shoot I can guarantee you he can't afford my hourly rate, he's better off buying commercial or buying some lead and equipment.

[aarolar]

Return his mold so he can cast his own bullets. Buy yourself a mold and enjoy being a free man instead of an indentured servant.
Wise words here.