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View Full Version : I Bit The Bullet And Ordered A Star Lube Sizer....



jleneave
03-15-2008, 12:24 AM
I ordered a Magma/Star lube sizer yesterday. The lady I spoke with on the phone said that they were back ordered and I should have it at my door in 3 weeks. I went on and ordered a .452" and a .430" sizer dies, a top punch, and the heater. My questiions are:

**NOTE: I am a total newbie at all of this so forgive me if I ask tupid questions.

1) Is there anything else that I am going to need to buy before using it other than lube?

2) Starting out I will be casting .44Mag and .45LC cast bullets. The .44Mag mold is Lyman's 4 cavity #429421 and the .45LC is the RCBS 2-Cavity mold 45-270-SAA 45 Colt Single Action Army (454 Diameter) 270 Grain Flat Nose. I will be loading these bullets from light cowboy loads to HOT max loads and everywhere in between. I will be shooting the bullets out of a Ruger Super Blackhawk and Blackhawk. My question is what type of bullet lube should I use for these bullets/load? I would like to be able to use the same lube for all bullets and loads to keep from having to go through the trouble of changing out the lube for different bullet/load combinations, if possible.

3) Are there any tips or tricks of the trade that might be helpful when setting the lube sizer up or using it?

I was going to get the RCBS Lubrisizer II until I saw that dang video that Freakshow 10mm posted the other day (link below).........Thanks a lot Freakshow 10mm!!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=27223

Thanks in advance for the advice/help.

Jody

cbrick
03-15-2008, 12:43 AM
Jody,

Yep, there is something else that you should order. Add to your order the die removal tool. It can be frustrating changing the die on a Star without it and extremely simple with it. I don't know what they get for them these days but they're fairly cheap.

You didn't say what lube your using but any good lube should do ya (not LLA in the Star). Your right, changing lubes in any lubesizer is a pain in the heiny.

Here's a drawing of the die extraction tool.

http://www.lasc.us/DieExtractionTool-3.jpg

To use it simply screw #1 into where the punch would go, insert #2 from the bottom up through the die and screw into #1. Raise the handle and the dies out.

You will like this machine, top rate all the way. Once it arrives if you have any questions just ask away, lot's of folks here using them.

Rick

ktw
03-15-2008, 12:45 AM
I would recommend ordering some of the White Label lube from here (http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html).

I use his "50/50" for the application you describe, but you could also consider the "2500+", "BAC", or "Cornuba Red" given that you have a heater.

-ktw

jleneave
03-15-2008, 01:55 AM
Cbrick, thanks for the heads up on the die removal tool, I will most definitely add that to my order. I am not using any lube at this time. All I have been doing is gathering WW and smelting them down into ingots. With it getting more difficult all the time to find WW at a reasonable price I wanted to make sure that I could build up a supply that would justify spending the cash on the other tools. So far I have acquired about 1000lbs of Ingots smelted down from WW, Molds, Mold Handles, Lee Pro IV 20 lbs bottom pour pot, cast iron pots for smelting, RCBS thermometer, Ingot molds and other knickknacks. I have not cast the first bullet yet as I have been acquiring all of this a little at a time. I am starting to get a little excited because I am almost ready to start casting my first bullets and I am really looking forward to it. If it were not for the good people of this site I would be totally lost, but I would have a little more money in my wallet…lol. Again, thank you for your reply and I am sure I will have more questions once the Star gets here and I get started casting and sizing my first bullets.

KTW, it is funny that you mention White Label Lube. I have been looking hard at this lube and the price is also good. I am just not sure which type to go with and wanted to get some recommendations from someone who knows more about it than me, which is everyone. Thanks for your input.

Jody

cbrick
03-15-2008, 02:00 AM
Jody, here's an article for you to read about lube. After you read this ask yourself if you really want a hard lube or one with better flow properties in mild to hot handgun and rifle pressures.

Lubricating Cast Bullets (http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm)

Rick

Frank V
03-15-2008, 02:45 AM
Jody, I have been using Javilina lube for years in the handgun calibers you mention with very good results. I switched to SPG last year because I occasionaly shoot some black powder shells in a .45 Colt. The SPG is a softer lube & is giving me very good results in my smokeless loads too. So far I am pleased with it. This is just another suggestion. Good shooting. Frank

Dutch4122
03-15-2008, 09:43 AM
Jody,

Yep, there is something else that you should order. Add to your order the die removal tool. It can be frustrating changing the die on a Star without it and extremely simple with it. I don't know what they get for them these days but they're fairly cheap.
Here's a drawing of the die extraction tool.
http://www.lasc.us/DieExtractionTool-3.jpg
Rick


When I ordered my Star Lubrisizer from Magma Engineering in 2004 the die removal tool was included.

Also, expect to keep a supply of #14 rubber "O" rings on hand as the Magma Engineering Star Sizer has a habit of chewing them up when removing/changing dies. I have the heater on mine and with the heater "on" and the machine all warmed up (lube pressure backed off) I am able to change dies a lot easier and damage fewer "O" rings.

BTW, the Star is a top rate machine once you get the hang of setting it up. IMHO you made a good choice, I love mine.

Hope this helps,

mtgrs737
03-15-2008, 11:18 AM
I would also suggest that you get the air cylinder upgrade and the roller handle for the star, it will make lubbing boolits more consistant, and easier on your hand. I like the heater on my units, it allows for a smoother lube flow even when using the soft lubes. I use Lar's BAC in my star and it works well for me.

lathesmith
03-15-2008, 04:11 PM
Under the "other stuff needed with Star luber" column, add "more 4- and 6- cavity bullet molds". Now that you have a Star, that is where your bottleneck in production will occur; you won't be able to feed that Star very fast with "only" a dual cavity mold. This is a nice problem to have, believe me. Once you get it set up and adjusted, you will like the Star!
lathesmith

bobthenailer
03-15-2008, 05:46 PM
ive used there hard lube for years and it works well to at least 1300 fps after that i use lbt commercial. order your lube in the big sticks for a camdex luber i think ther 2 0r 3 inches by 6 inches and they are solid not hollow , melt it down in a pyrex measuring cup and pour it in to the sizer a 1/4 inch below the vent in the tube on the backside this puts more lube in the resivour and elimiates air pockets , and let it set up and then install the pressure assy. there lube needs about 115 to 120 degrees to flow propley i mounted a car ac thermoter in the heater base . the bigger sticks of lube are alot more econmical. later on i would get a roller operating handle. bob

jleneave
03-15-2008, 06:22 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I am sure that I will need more help with setting it up when it arrives.

pipehand
03-15-2008, 06:50 PM
JLENEAVE- I'm a long time Star fan, and as other posters have mentioned, they are the fastest step in turning the alloy into loadable boolits. I would suggest one thing - that you check the sized diamenter of your boolits using your alloy. Magma tests their dies with Taracorp alloy which is a lot richer in antimony and tin than the wheelweights most of us use. That alloy has a lot of "springback" meaning that the boolits come out of the die larger than the hole in the die. My .452 magma dies actually produce a .4515 boolit out of wheelweights. This caused some leading in my .45 Colts, but worked very well in 1911's. I ordered a larger die and the leading in the 45LC's stopped.

mtgrs737
03-15-2008, 06:59 PM
pipehand,

Try letting the boolit sit for a couple of days and then measure it again. I found that boolits right out of the sizer measured .4515" and twelve hours later they measured .452".
I suppose this is due to springback of the alloy.

EDK
03-16-2008, 02:29 PM
You'll also need a brass punch and a small awl or small drill bits. The punch to tap shot into the sizer die holes and the awl to pull them out. You adjust where the lube goes on your boolit by plugging the holes in the sizer die and then playing with the length setting of your top punch.

A good starting place would probably be to plug all the holes on the top and bottom rows, leaving the center open. (Somebody else jump in if this is incorrect.) I use this on a variety of LEEs and LYMANS in 44 caliber.

You also need to have the lube pump piston work a little as you run the boolits through. You'll work out how hard you compress the lube reservoir by trial-and-error. A low setting on the heater helps even with soft lubes. Run a lubed boolit through the die occasionally. Even with reading all the threads here on the STAR, there is a lot of tinkering to be done on your learning curve. BUT reading will save you a lot of "re-inventing the wheel."

LARS' lubes are my choice. The black powder lube for my SHILOH SHARPS 50/90 and other black powder loadings; the 50/50 ALOX mix for everything else. He sent samples of the carnuba that I need to try for my MARLIN 1894s. Bullshop makes good lube also. His sprue plate lube is a necessity...wish I'd learned about it a lot sooner. Both good people, with good products, and forum members also.

A +1 on 4 or 6 cavity moulds. The LYMANS are higher priced than the LEES, but a lot more durable. I just started with 6 cavity LEES...good boolits right away on two out of three....my learning curve...but need the sprue plate set screw and steel insert under the cam modifications in about 2000 boolits cast....or less!

When you get this set up with appropriate moulds, you're into high level production. If you have a DILLON or comparable progressive reloader, you can generate a lot of ammo. A few odd minutes here-and-there with the STAR/progressive press take care of a lot of bullet processing/ammo needs.


Good Luck :cbpour::redneck::Fire:

cbrick
03-16-2008, 02:53 PM
When I ordered my Star Lubrisizer from Magma Engineering in 2004 the die removal tool was included.

Also, expect to keep a supply of #14 rubber "O" rings on hand as the Magma Engineering Star Sizer has a habit of chewing them up. Hope this helps,

The die extraction tool included with a new machine would make sense I guess. I've never bought a new one, I bought mine from SAECO when John Adams sold the company to Redding. It's the one they used in the shop and no telling how old it was when I bought it but I'd guess 20+ years and I've had it 20+ years.

I did hear that Magma added "O" rings for the dies but have no idea why, mine isn't exactly a spring chicken and it doesn't leak unless I try filling it with molten lube or over-heat the lube to melting.

Rick

fecmech
03-16-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm not familiar with the magma sizer but I thought it was a Star clone. I use a hard lube in my Star and push the size dies out with a piece of 1/2" plastic pipe after I heat it up to operating temp. I sure would not pay for a removal tool.

cbrick
03-16-2008, 04:10 PM
fecmech, the Magma Star is not a clone, Magma is the mfg of the machine since they bought it from Star Machine Works of San Diego several years ago.

For anyone that doesn't have a die removal tool given how cheap they are to buy if you used one once you'll have a different opinion.

Dutch4122
03-16-2008, 06:15 PM
...........................................I did hear that Magma added "O" rings for the dies but have no idea why, mine isn't exactly a spring chicken and it doesn't leak unless I try filling it with molten lube or over-heat the lube to melting.

Rick

The "O" rings are my only complaint about the Magma Star Lubri-sizer. Every time I remove a die using the removal tool without the base heater turned "on" and the machine warmed up I end up damaging an "O" ring.

And, every 6 or 7 die changes I end up with a worn out "O" ring that has to be replaced. Otherwise I get lube leakage. That's why I keep a supply on hand.

Good thing is that with a dental pick type instrument removing the old "O" ring is a snap and installing a new one is even easier.

I still recommend the machine without a doubt.:drinks:

Adam10mm
03-16-2008, 06:31 PM
It is recommended that you heat the lube up before you remove the die.

Get the shovel handle (swivel handle). Much more comfortable.

Plugging and unplugging die holes is a PITA. I got one die for single groove and one die for multple grooves (usually 3) of the same diameter, so this size, this bullet, this die. I don't have to mess around with poking the holes clear in the side of the die to change bullet profiles.

When I remove a die, I always wipe the die clean of lube before I put it away. I collect it and put it back in the reservoir when I get enough.

I shoot handgun and rifle between 800fps to 1800fps and use Lar's Red Carnauba lube. Great lube, needs heat to flow well.

You'll have to remember to let some of the sizer overhang the bench so the boolits drop freely. A good rule is the edge of the base flush with the edge of the bench.

I use 1/2" long 1/4"-20tpi bolts to secure my Star to the heater.

Sometimes setting up again can be frustrating, but the more you do it the easier it gets.

The manual looks like it was written by a drunk 6th grade foreign student. There are spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors that a company shouldn't have in their instruction manuals. It is also not organized in a logical way.

When you get a bullet in the die where the lube grooves are lined up with the holes you are going to use, raise the bullet punch all the way to the top, and measure with a calipers the distance from the top of the die to the punch. Write it down. When you go to set it up again later (after removing the die, doing another bullet type, etc) you will have a reference point for that bullet to get the depth right. You put the die in the press, raise the punch, and adjust it in or out to match the distance from the measurement you wrote down. Minor adjustments from here might be needed, but it will get you real close. I leave a bullet in the die so I can run the punch out so on the downstroke it barely touches the bullet in the die. Same thing, different way. I use both methods.

That's all I can think of now.

lathesmith
03-16-2008, 09:54 PM
I agree with cbrick, once you have and use a die removal tool you will keep using it. My Star didn't have one, I whipped one up on the lathe right quick and have been VERY happy with it. It makes die removal fast and easy, without worries of possible damage.
I have a couple of older machines, and they don't use O-rings. They never leak lube here, so they aren't needed. I really don't know why these were added, it solves a non-existent problem. I don't use the set screw either, as it is just in the way.
lathesmith

cbrick
03-16-2008, 10:05 PM
lathesmith, that's a good point on the set screw. I NEVER tighten it, not because it's in the way but because I don't want any side pressure on the die. I get very round boolits from my dies and would like to keep it that way. I really don't know if the set screw would exert enough pressure to flex the die out of round but I never cared to find out either. It's not needed, my dies have never moved on me sooo . . .

Rick

Adam10mm
03-16-2008, 10:32 PM
Whoa! Set screw? What set screw? Where?

Orygun
03-16-2008, 11:26 PM
Whoa! Set screw? What set screw? Where?

I assume he means the one on the frame to siziing die, at least mine has one.
I always tighten it down, for if I don't don't, lube will leak out through it when I warm up the lube. Never ever had a problem with it being out of alignment, and I don't believe that it could distort the die.

Springfield
03-17-2008, 02:52 AM
I gave up replacing the O-ring and you know what? It works just fine without it. I size thousands of bullets a week and I get a little leakage but I just wipe it off and don't worry about it. Makes taking out the die a tad bit easier too.

jleneave
03-17-2008, 04:15 AM
WOW!! Thanks for all the tips and information!! It is a lot to absorb. You would think that the die removal tool would come with the press, but then again all companies try to get you for every dollar they can. I am looking at White Label Lube's Carnuba Red for lubing my bullets, unless for some reason that is a bad choice? Thier prices are really good and from what I have read the lube is really good too. I can't wait until the Star gets here, but I will have to say that I am a little nervous about setting it up. From what I have read about that it sounds like it is going to be a b!tc#!! Thanks again for all the help, this is a great site full of great people.

Jody

Adam10mm
03-17-2008, 10:17 AM
Lar's Red is a good choice for lube. You will have to chop about an inch or so off so it fits in the reservoir. No biggie.

Cherokee
03-17-2008, 11:19 AM
Quote: When you get a bullet in the die where the lube grooves are lined up with the holes you are going to use, raise the bullet punch all the way to the top, and measure with a calipers the distance from the top of the die to the punch. Write it down. When you go to set it up again later (after removing the die, doing another bullet type, etc) you will have a reference point for that bullet to get the depth right. You put the die in the press, raise the punch, and adjust it in or out to match the distance from the measurement you wrote down. Minor adjustments from here might be needed, but it will get you real close. End quote

That is the process I use and it works very well with the wide variety of bullets I run thru my Star.

Caution, my Star will not size 44-45 bullets that are way oversize and have a large contact surface. I have bent two handles learning this lesson. I am told you can avoid this by using some liquid lube on the bullets first or "lube" every 5th bullet - I just use my Lyman 4500 for 44-45 bullets much larger than the desired finished size and avoid the issue.

You will like your new sizer. Get the die removal tool. Also figure out how you are going to catch the bullets that are ejected out the bottom. I have a wood box with cardboard bottom just 2" below the "ejection" port, mounted at an angle so the bullets slide out of the way of the next one out the port. Surprising to me that no one makes a bullet collection "tool" to add to the Star.

LAR Carnuba Red for lube covers all uses mild to wild and no need to change lubes in the sizer.

fecmech
03-17-2008, 04:36 PM
I agree with cbrick, once you have and use a die removal tool you will keep using it. My Star didn't have one, I whipped one up on the lathe right quick and have been VERY happy with it. It makes die removal fast and easy, without worries of possible damage.

lathesmith

Guys-- What am I missing here?? I have a Star sizer, use both magma and star dies. With the sizer at operating temp I can simply push out the die with a 6" piece of plastic pipe by hand. I just push up on the plastic pipe from the bottom of the sizer while it's mounted on the bench. Why do you need a removal tool??

cbrick
03-17-2008, 05:07 PM
Very simple, I don't use a lube heater, it's rarely needed at room temp. I have no desire to wait to heat up the machine for the purpose softening the lube for no more purpose than the changing of dies. The tool is extremely easy, extremely fast. Simple! Done! I also leave Part #1 in the machine to install the new die, simply lower the handle and it pushes the new die in. Straight.

Rick

lathesmith
03-17-2008, 06:28 PM
Freak, the newer machines don't have the set screw; it is not needed, so they wisened up and saved a little machining time by eliminating it. I leave mine loose because in the past, I have been guilty of trying to remove a die...but forgetting to loosen the darn thing. It's easy to do if you haven't used your equipment for awhile. I never put enough pressure on it to damage anything, but it left me scratching my head for a few minutes until I figured out what the hold-up was.
I use those tool bins to catch my sized slugs. I mounted my Star on a plate, onto which I installed a lip, and these universal tool bins hang nicely underneath the die to catch the sized and lubed slugs. I have never worried much about damage, they don't drop very far and for me damage hasn't been an issue. Then I can just take the whole bin into the house and start loading. This way, I keep thousands of cast but unsized/unlubed slugs around, and with the Star I can have them ready to load in a few minutes.
lathesmith

fecmech
03-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Very simple, I don't use a lube heater, it's rarely needed at room temp.

Rick

Now I see, removing dies with soft lubes at room temp would be difficult and require a tool of sorts. I use a lube heater because I use hard lubes so changing dies involves no wait time for me. Thanks for the info. Nick