.32 Long Colt heel-base bullets......

[Harry O]

I bought a new mould for the .32 Long Colt with heel-base bullets. It arrived Saturday. I cast with it this morning. Was able to cast about 600 keepers in 3-hours. That sure beats the Ideal 299155 hollow-base bullet mould with a maximum of one per minute, if everything works perfectly.

The mould was made by Old West Bullet Moulds. It is a close copy of the Ideal 299153. It arrived within two weeks of the order and looks great. More importantly, it casts great. I will be loading up a bunch this week to shoot next weekend. The real test will be then, however, the dimensions look like they should work OK.

Will update when I have some shooting experience with them.

[Harry O]

I've shortened a bunch of my homemade .32LC cases (made from .32 S&W Long cases) for the heel-base bullet. The length of an original 32LC case with hollow-base bullets is supposed to be about 0.916" according to what I have read. I have a number of unfired original cases with two different head stamps. The real ones generally run closer to 0.910" instead of 0.916". The homemade cases have a length of about 0.924". For hollow-base bullets, I don't bother to shorten them to match the original cases.

I put one of the heel-base bullets in a homemade case. As expected, it was too long for the Colt small frame DA's I have. They were just barely too long for the chambers. There are some places on the Internet that say heel-base Long Colt cases were 0.820" long. I have nothing to verify that. Does anyone out there have an original .32LC heel-base cartridge you can measure for me?

Instead of going all the way to 0.820" at once, I shortened some of the cases to 0.870" long. With a bullet seated, there was about 0.040" clearance between the front of the bullet to the front of the chamber. That seems like enough, so I am going to try that. If it doesn't work, I can shorten them again to 0.820". I will be loading them up with 2.0gr of Bullseye tomorrow.

[Southern Son]

HO,
Mate, nothing to contribute with the case length, but do keep us posted, with photos, this is one cool project. Old Colt, heel based boolits, load them with black powder and you will have the holy trinity.

[MrWolf]

Also interested in this. Please keep us posted on your results. I have an old Marlin leveraction that I hope to work on this summer.

[texassako]

I have an Old West mold made so I could shoot an odd caliber, 9.4 Dutch. It cast real well and led me to this sight and a lead casting addiction. I have thought about getting one of these heeled .32 molds, but still not sure if my CF converted #2 RB has a decent enough bore to bother.

[Harry O]

HO,
Old Colt, heel based boolits, load them with black powder and you will have the holy trinity.

I have been using Black Powder with the 41 Long Colt for the last 30 years. It works better than any smokeless powder in that caliber. Bullseye is sometimes close, but not better than BP. I have also tried BP in the 32-20 (which was the very first centerfire cartridge I ever shot). It was not nearly as successful. After a relatively few shots, accuracy would drop no matter what the lube was or how much there was of it. I came to the conclusion that BP did not work well with small caliber cartridges and have rarely used it in 32's since then.

Interestingly, I have shot about 500 rounds of 32LC hollow-base bullets with Bullseye in the last few months. It works better in that caliber than Bullseye did with the 41LC. I am not sure why, but Bullseye and this caliber seem to work together extremely well. If my heel-base bullets don't work with Bullseye, I will try other powders -- and BP will probably be one of them.

The only problem with the hollow-base bullet was the casting time. I was lucky to cast one per minute. I shoot them up a lot faster than that.

[w30wcf]

Does anyone out there have an original .32LC heel-base cartridge you can measure for me?


Harry,
I have several original cartridges with the heeled bullets. Case length = .78"

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/32LCjpg.jpg
left 3 - heeled bullet / short case
middle - shot cartridge
right 3 - hollow base bullet / long case originally called the .32 Long Rifle

w30wcf

[Harry O]

w30wcf: Thanks for the information. I shot my first heel-base bullets today. Results were OK, but not great. However, I am still on the steep part of the learning curve and they are good enough to get me to continue.

I loaded the heel-base bullets with 2.0gr of Bullseye and crimped them with an Old Western crimper and one that I made. Theirs worked a little better. The nose of the cartridge was dipped into a small plate of melted SPG lube. It dried rather thick. They were fired from a Colt Police Positive revolver. The cartridges had to be pushed into the chambers because of the lube, but they pushed in easily. Groups were reasonable and I expect them to improve with learning. All cartridges fired. There was absolutely no leading, but the entire gun got sticky from the lube very quickly.

One thing I am going to do is continue to shorten the cases. The 0.870" long cases are too long. I did not have any specific problems with that length, but the OAL of the cartridge varied after crimping. The 0.040" clearance I originally started with dropped to near zero with some cases. At the present length, if they jumped the crimp even a little bit, they would tie up the gun. This is entirely possible because of the soft lead I am using. I am using 40:1 lead at about Bhn 6.0 to 6.5. I plan to harden them up a little bit the next time. I haven't decided whether to add more tin or a little bit of Bhn 13 X-ray lead.

Other than that, things went pretty well. The groups were well off to the left of the aiming point, but very close to right on vertically. It should be easy to adjust the fixed sights when I settle on a load.

[Jeffjmr]

Was this a custom mold or something Old West offers off the shelf?

And what are the bullet specs? I'm looking at them for a possible mold for my Swedish Nagant.

thanks,
jeff

[Harry O]

Was this a custom mold or something Old West offers off the shelf?

And what are the bullet specs?

jeff

I don't know if they had it on-the-shelf or not. Either way, the turnaround was very fast.

I e-mailed them asking if they had a mould for a .32 Long Colt, heel-base. They sent me back a picture with two bullets to choose from. One was a 90gr round-nose. The other was a 95gr round-nose, flat-point. The round-nose was a very close copy of the 299153, which I had been looking for for some time. So I sent them the money for that one. I am impressed with the mould I got.

[w30wcf]

Harry,
Old West makes a neat extended, adjustable, shell holder that one can use with a .30-30 Lee FCD to crimp .32 LC reloads. :grin:

This pic was posted on another website.
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/crimp-2_zpseee218df.jpg

This is the set up I have used with the .30-30 Lee FCD.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/32LColtcrimpin30-30FCD.jpg

I have not found any difference in accuracy between crimped and non crimped .32 LC ammunition.....but I am using it in an 1892 Marlin.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Here are the two bullets Accurate Molds offers for the .32 LC. I designed them to be a press fit in as fired cases.
If one is using sized cases, one should specify the heel diameter they desire.

Thankfully both bullets have worked well in my 1892 Marlin.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/32LCBullets.jpg

L to R 299153 / 31-090S / 31-090A

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/32Colt.jpg

w30wcf

[Harry O]

> "If one is using sized cases, one should specify the heel diameter they desire." w30wcf

I did not specify the heel-diameter, but the one I got from Old West works well. Just a slight belling of the mouth of a sized case will take the bullets cleanly and hold them firmly. The crimp removes the bell. I have shortened about half my cases (so far) to 0.780". The OAL of the heel-base bullet in that length case is very close to the full-length case with a hollow-base bullet.

[BLTsandwedge]

Interesting! I've a brother that owns a Stevens Favorite that is marked '.32 long.' When we fire a .32 S&W (sometimes incorrectly known as a .32 short) loaded for a .32 S&W revolver i.e. 2+g W231 and a .311 Lyman, it'll bulge the case and accuracy is iffy. We believe '.32 long' equates to a chambering of the 1920's. I'm starting to believe that this rifle was designed for a heeled bullet.....and we know it was originally chambered for a rimfire .32 round. Obviously it is a centerfire now. Help is appreciated!

[Harry O]

BLTsandwedge: At least with my guns, the .32 Long Colt case is smaller in diameter than the .32 S&W (Long or Short) case. If you are getting bulging from a .32 S&W, it is not chambered in .32 Long Colt. The barrel inside diameter is about the same for both, between 0.312" to 0.314".

The only thing I can think of that is slightly larger in case diameter is the 32-20. I imagine that shooting any .32 S&W in a 32-20 chamber would bulge the case and have poor accuracy.

Maybe someone else can suggest other possibilities, but that is the only one I can think of. If you want to try that, I can load up a dummy and send it. PM me.

[Mk42gunner]

Interesting! I've a brother that owns a Stevens Favorite that is marked '.32 long.' When we fire a .32 S&W (sometimes incorrectly known as a .32 short) loaded for a .32 S&W revolver i.e. 2+g W231 and a .311 Lyman, it'll bulge the case and accuracy is iffy. We believe '.32 long' equates to a chambering of the 1920's. I'm starting to believe that this rifle was designed for a heeled bullet.....and we know it was originally chambered for a rimfire .32 round. Obviously it is a centerfire now. Help is appreciated!

Actually the .32 Long rimfire case goes back to 1861 and the S&W new model #2 revolver. If your brothers Favorite will chamber a .32 S&W, it was either rechambered when the gun was converted to Centerfire, or the chamber has some ferocious erosion.

Sounds like a very good candidate for a chamber cast.

Robert

[BLTsandwedge]

Thanks gents- this was a re-chamber. It is really necessary to cast the chamber- but I do know the barrel is between .311" and .312" as it will hold a 1/2" group at 25 yards....until it gets dirty. And it gets dirty- even with 2 1/2g W231 in a .32 S&W case under a .311" 81g LRN at about 14BhN with a JPW/beeswax/Lee liquid mule snot lube.

Harry, we've anecdotal evidence that folks fired this rifle using .32-20. My hesitation is pressure- this is not a robust action.

Many thanks gents................

Tom

[Wayne Smith]

Tom, use 32-20 brass and load it real light!

[Harry O]

Tom, use 32-20 brass and load it real light!

A 90-100gr soft lead bullet with 2.8gr of Trail Boss is real light. I use it for some of my old 32-20's.

[Chev. William]

BLTsandwedge (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?311-BLTsandwedge):
If you have a Dial Caliper and are willing to take the Barrel out of your Stevens favorite (it normally is a Take Down design with the Barrel Holding Screw on the Front bottom of the Receiver) you can begin to sort out jsut what you have for a Chamber.
First measure the Rim 'Rebate' diameter and depth, record measurements.
Second Measure the Chamber inside diameter about .20" forward of the Barrel breech face, again record measurement.
Third, using the 'depth measuring' probe of the Dial Caliper, feel for, and measure the depth from the Breech face, of the slight 'step' or 'shoulder' in the chamber near the forward end and again recored the measurement.

Now compare these recorded dimensions to the Cartridges possible:
32-20 winchester (Ammoguide Interactive Drawing 84)
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/84.gif
.32 Long Rimfire (also .32 Long colt)(Ammoguide Interactive Drawing 641)
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/641.gif
.32 S&W Long (also .32 Colt New Police)(Ammoguide Interactive Drawing 82)
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/82.gif
And the .32 S&W(Ammoguide Interactive Drawing 79)
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/ctgs/diag/sae/79.gif

As you can see there are variations that will allow you to make an educated guess as to just what the chamber is cut to take.
Note Also that barrels I have by Stevens marked for the ".32 long" were for the .32 Long rimfire and have bore /Groove dimensions running closer to nominal .30 or .308 dimensions, "tight' for nominal .32 S&W but still worked with the Soft Lead Bullets of the Era as they Swaged, upon firing, to tightly fit the Rifling and proved quite Accurate according to write ups from the Era.

I hope this helps your project along.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

The first photo in post #11 above is of my set up using Bernie's crimp die for heeled bullets. It really works well. I also found I could also use it for crimping my reloadable .32 Extra Long rimfire cases by making a spacer that sits on the shell holder. The small price he charges to make these crimp dies makes it is a real bargain. I highly recommend it.

[Harry O]

ndnchf: I agree. I had him make one for me. It worked great on the 0.920" long cases and the 0.780" cases. However, I started to use Short cases (0.640" long), since they are so much easier to find. Screwing out the center bolt as far as was needed left the bolt kind of floppy. I did not want to take a chance with breaking or bending it against the bottom of the die.

I had him make me a longer center bolt. It won't work on the 0.920" cases (the bolt sticks down too far on the bottom). However, by switching bolts, I can now crimp all three lengths.