Cast some COWW/SOWW .311 bullets for my Mosin. Need MAX load data advice on 7.62x54R.

[rmcelwee]

I promised pictures of this in another thread I posted a while back but thought I would just start a new one since things had changed a bit. So, here are some pictures and info:

http://www.lightweightmiata.com/guns/gallery/

137966

I ended up making my bullets at a 3:1 COWW:SOWW ratio. I originally wanted to do some gallery loads but I think I now want to just ramp up and do some regular loads with them. I am nervous about doing full loads with these bullets but I am looking to you guys to tell me that it will be OK. Hodgdon website says to use H335 @ 46.0 to 49.5 but I don't know if I can do that with my PC'd and gas check'd bullets. I have heard I need to stay under 2000 fps. What do you think?

(Hodgdon.com load data for H335 is below):

Start 46.0 - 2751fps - 38800 CUP
Max 49.5 - 2918fps - 45900 CUP

[runfiverun]

I think what you heard is correct.
powder coating is not a jacket.

[rmcelwee]

Any idea of a load that will get me under 2000 fps? There is probably some formula but I would not know how to figure that out.

[texassako]

I would find a different powder than H335 if you want to load down to 2000 fps.

[rmcelwee]

I would find a different powder than H335 if you want to load down to 2000 fps.

My plan was to only use two powders if possible (H335 for rifle and W231 for pistol). I have 8 pounds of H335 sitting here so hopefully I can find a load for it.

[gloob]

What powders do you have? I load cast in 223 and 308. I use some H335 in both calibers, and I don't see why it wouldn't work in 54R. The main reason I don't use much of it for my cast loads is that it's not necessary to use a powder that slow in my calibers to hit the max velocity of the cast bullet. I can use a smaller charge of a faster powder and get the same results for less $$. But if I were sitting on a big stash of H335, I bet it would work just fine.

Check around for 30-06 data. Cast 30-06 data should be safe to use for cast Mosin reloads if you start at -10%.

With a jacketed Mosin rifle powder, you will know when you are over the max when the bullets don't hit paper. If you have a flash hider, you will know when you paint it silver. Pressure shouldn't be too much of a problem, if you start at least 30-40% lower than jacketed load info, IME. Velocity/accuracy is the ceiling you are flirting with, not so much as pressure. I suppose a disclaimer about detonation might be in order, when reducing rifle loads. Be sure to research and come up with your own conclusions.

For more efficient/accurate pistol powder and faster than normal rifle powders, do be a bit more careful in checking pressure signs as you work up. I would also avoid powders that are known to be harder to ignite, and I would preferentially choose powders that are bulkier.

Try castpics for some cast load info.

[rmcelwee]

I only have H335 and W231 (about 8 pounds of each).

Thanks for the 30-06 info.

[gloob]

Incidentally, the most ill-advised cast rifle load I ever made was using H335 AND W231. Don't ask. :)

FWIW, I load 130 gr cast bullet over 24 grains of H335 in my much smaller 7mm-08 cases, and that's not a max load, by any means.

[rmcelwee]

I won't ask!

All I have really been able to find is gallery loads for the Mosin/cast using 2400 or powder like it.

[Larry Gibson]

I think you need to search for my thread on shooting PC'd bullets at HV in the .223 and the 7.62x54R on the PC sub forum and read it.

Larry Gibson

[rmcelwee]

Will do! Thanks...

[runfiverun]

you might also wanna look at his sticky on the use of fillers.
I'm thinking one would help the 335 burn more efficiently at the lower pressure.

[rmcelwee]

I think you need to search for my thread on shooting PC'd bullets at HV in the .223 and the 7.62x54R on the PC sub forum and read it.

Larry Gibson

This is a link to every topic you have started since 2006. I don't see it listed in there???

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/search.php?searchid=2496589&pp=

[Larry Gibson]

Try; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236746-Test-of-leadman-s-225438s-and-314299s-at-high-velocity

If you need the pictures I can repost here.

Larry Gibson

[rmcelwee]

Try; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236746-Test-of-leadman-s-225438s-and-314299s-at-high-velocity

If you need the pictures I can repost here.

Larry Gibson

Thanks for the link. Being a newbie I was finding it a bit hard to follow, especially since I undoubtedly missed quite a bit of the overall conversation that was taking place on the forum during that time. So, in a nutshell, what were you reporting? PC'd boolits suck for rifles (they cause barrel build up and keyholes)?

Hmmm, what should I do with the 300 PC'd .311" boolits I have??? Melt 'em back down?

[runfiverun]

no, just keep them at nominal 1900 fps speeds and you'll do almost as good as with regular cast ones.
use your 335, back the load down and use the Dacron to help get a cleaner burn.

[gloob]

Thanks for the link. I didn't catch this testing at the time.

I got caught up in the PC craze. But only because I thought it might stop fouling of the gas port in my semiauto 223. I'm glad I bailed upon inspection of my first batch. Looking at that dry, crusty, little pill with asymmetrical bumps, my enthusiasm just soured. I still have that little batch of 25 bullets sitting on my bench, and my HF powder has sat in the shed. I'm sure folks can get a better, more uniform coat on these little tiny .223 bullets, perhaps with more expensive setups than a tub and some plastic BB's. But sitting them up individually on a plate is really hard, and baking them in a pile is just not going to cut it for accuracy - at least on these little 225 pills.

I try to keep cleaning rods out of my 22 bores, unless absolutely necessary. Even if it stops the gas port fouling, I'm not sure bore fouling is an improvement in my gas piston gun, which can be completely cleaned. And the "ease" of PC is not very evident in my attempts on small bullets. I never did believe the higher velocity claims, to begin with, and I'm still waiting on hard data to support those claims. At least in my 223, the bullet loses accuracy about the same time half the bullet ends up on the flash hider. A 2 mil coating might be able to keep the bullet in one piece, but I don't imagine it would be anything close to accurate, at that same velocity.

I never even considered trying it on pistol bullets. Lead is just too easy and effective. PC is great for those who are having issues with cast bullets, but I'm going to sit on the sideline, for now.

[leadman]

I was not aware that Larry had tested the boolits and just read his results with them. These boolits were coated with the Hi-Tek coating, not powder coat.
The hard crusty surface and lack of boolit performance could have been due to the coating not completely cooked. I had a problem with one of my ovens around that time with it not getting up to the temperature like it should have. After this I converted my ovens to PID control and this works much better.
I have shot the 22 caliber boolits to over 3,600 fps average with 1 1/2 to 2 moa accuracy. Velocities around 2,600 fps are usually under 1 moa.
I haven't shot or cast much in the last few months so nothing new to report on. hope to get in some casting and range time soon.