Lee Oversized Carbide Sizing Dies for .45 ACP? How about RCBS or others?

[John C]

In my other thread about .45 ACP, I mentioned I'm struggling with crunching down my boolits using standard reloading dies. I've addressed my issue of having too much crimp, and I now have a larger powder funnel for my Dillon 550. My loads are now swaging down my boolits to .4510-.4515 from the previous .448.

My issue is that my Lee sizing die is sizing my cases down to .469 all the way down to the base of the case. This is less than the standard .472 or so. I've ordered an oversize Lee carbide sizing die, which in theory should be .003 larger than standard. This should now have me completely dialled in. I want to thank everyone who helped me out.

My question is, how do the other brands do? Can I just buy an RCBS, Hornady, Dillon, etc and expect the sizing die to be large enough for cast bullets? Or do I need to get RCBS cowboy dies? Or just special order oversized dies from Lee each time?

Thanks,

-John

[Char-Gar]

In my other thread about .45 ACP, I mentioned I'm struggling with crunching down my boolits using standard reloading dies. I've addressed my issue of having too much crimp, and I now have a larger powder funnel for my Dillon 550. My loads are now swaging down my boolits to .4510-.4515 from the previous .448.


My issue is that my Lee sizing die is sizing my cases down to .469 all the way down to the base of the case. This is less than the standard .472 or so. I've ordered an oversize Lee carbide sizing die, which in theory should be .003 larger than standard. This should now have me completely dialled in. I want to thank everyone who helped me out.

My question is, how do the other brands do? Can I just buy an RCBS, Hornady, Dillon, etc and expect the sizing die to be large enough for cast bullets? Or do I need to get RCBS cowboy dies? Or just special order oversized dies from Lee each time?

Thanks,

-John

I do not use Lee dies nor a Dillon press, but here is what I can tell you.

1. I have two RCBS and one Lyman 45 ACP sizing die and they size the cases to .470 - .471
2. No amount of bullet size compression/reduction in the loading process is acceptable.
3. Your problems are not related to your sizing die.
4. Your cases are being underexpanded or the rounds over crimped or the wrong kind of crimp is used.

I have loaded many, many 45 ACP rounds with cast bullets using either RCBS or Lyman dies and have had no issues that relate to the dies. Again, I don't use a Dillon press or Lee dies, so I can't speak to your issue directly.

[Tatume]

+1 I have loaded many tens of thousands of rounds of 45 ACP ammo using Lee dies, mostly with cast bullets. I've never had a problem related to Lee dies. I also use Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, and Hornady dies for other cartridges, and they all work fine too. I agree, the problem is probably not with the dies.

[dudel]

Speaking just for the Lee boolit sizing dies; they seem to be all over the place. Many stories here about people having to open them up to the correct size. It's an issue with Lee quality control (or lack there of). If the boolit sizing dies have a wide variance; why wouldn't their brass sizing dies?

I have mostly Hornady and RCBS reloading dies (and only one per caliber), and they seem spot on for my needs. The few Lee dies that I have seem to be fine as well. I may have a) gotten lucky or b) they are off; but size to the size I need.

If I had a bad Lee die, I'm not sure I would pay them for an oversize die to correct the wrong one I bought. That sounds like a customer service issue.

[Tatume]

Over the years I've had Lee dies for so many different cartridges I can't count them. I've never had a bad die from Lee. When I get good products from a company over and over again, and never get a bad one, I tend mightily to dismiss the naysayers. They'll probably jump all over me now, but I stand by my experience.

[wvmanchu]

Had basically the same problem when seating and crimping in the same step with my RCBS dies, my solution was to back the crimp die off til it just removed the bell from the case mouth and seated the bullet to proper OAL then crimp to .471 in the next step in a Hornady Taper Crimp Die.

[dondiego]

Over the years I've had Lee dies for so many different cartridges I can't count them. I've never had a bad die from Lee. When I get good products from a company over and over again, and never get a bad one, I tend mightily to dismiss the naysayers. They'll probably jump all over me now, but I stand by my experience.

I have never had a bad LEE die. Probably have 15 or more LEE sets. Have had a bad RCBS case size die. They cheerfully replaced it of course.

[runfiverun]

lee oversized size dies are called fcd dies.
seriously they didn't know what to do with all their carbide die ring mistakes so they invented a solution.

you wouldn't be the first person to polish out a die [or part of a die] to the correct size.

[John C]

Thanks, gentlemen, for your replies.

I don't think my Lee die is defective; it does make ammo that shoots. It's probably just the smallest carbide ring that gauges correctly for Lee. So it sizes the cases down quite a bit. Too much, for my tastes. I'm not unhappy with the product; it's probably fine for jacketed bullets. For cast, not so much. My question, which was answered, is whether my Lee die it tight, as I suspected, versus other die sets or brands. It looks like it is.

Char-gar: I respect your opinions and advice immensely. You've helped me out quite a bit on other threads. I agree that crunching the bullet down, even .0005 as in this case, is too much. My new powder funnel expands the case enough, it's just that the rest of the case, down to the base, has been sized down to .469. I didn't want the case to bulge at the front, so it's now a straight tube from bottom to top. The other issue I'm having is that the case has been sized down so much that it's grabbing the powder funnel on the way down. I'm going to polish it up with some flitz tonight to reduce that. I'm also hoping that an oversize Lee carbide sizing die at .472 (or greater) will no longer crunch the case down so much.

Runfiverun; I called Lee, and they sell oversized carbide sizing dies, which decap and resize, as opposed to the FCD, which sizes and crimps.

In the future, I might try RCBS, Lyman, or other brands.

Thanks,

-John

[trixter]

John C, please do not be offended. I believe that you have misinterpreted the instructions. I know they are not too clear but they are adequate. I have used the Lee .45 die set with perfect results for over 6 years. Please re-read the instructions, and start over again. I hope I didn't get too................ well you know. I sincerely hope this helps.

[MT Chambers]

I wouldn't size anything with Lee dies haven't used any since the first set I bought and couldn't chamber a sized case, maybe they have started to measure them before selling, but I like Redding and Forster dies, no sizing surprises.

[tward]

John C, I have 45 colt and 45 ACP dies and the colt dies are .003-.005 larger. Tim

[Fluxed]

Its not the sizer die that is your problem, and its not the amount of crimp you are applying. The Lee dies are causing your problem. (most likely the crimp die) Lee must make some good ones or people here would not have success with them. I think they do also make some not so good ones. There is a reason they are cheap and I think it shows here. The best solution is to buy a real set of dies from RCBS or Redding.

When you set up your dies, make sure your expander opens the case enough for the bullet you are using.
Seat the bullet, and in a separate step, crimp in a proper taper crimp die. A proper taper crimp die will come from RCBS or Redding. Taper crimp to about .468 - .469.

[John C]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. In addition to the replies on this thread, I've received several in depth PMs from some very gracious members of the forum.

Rest assured that I'm reading the replies very thoroughly and will implement the suggestions in my reloading. It's just taking a while to digest the responses.

I want to thank everyone for helping me out. The best thing about this forum is the lengths the members will go to help a guy out in trying to load great ammunition.

-John

[gloob]

I guess I'm a little late to the thread. Just wanted OP to know I get it, and no this is not always the case. Some are on the small side, some on the big side, and it doesn't much matter the manufacturer. I have read plenty of complaints of other manufacturers, too.

I have a lot of Lee dies, and some are tight. Tight is ok with me. My 9mm and 40SW dies are tight. But I have the right expanders to load any cast bullet I want with proper neck tension and no swaging. The "coke bottle" effect is fine with me. My brass still seems to last as long as I care.

I have some that are loose. My Lee 45ACP sizing die happens to be on the loose side, just to the point where I can't use some brass for jacketed bullets. That's ok with me, since I shoot 95% cast, anyway. I can load my cast bullets in 45ACP without using a special expander. But if I have a choice, I prefer a die that is a little bit tight, paired with the right sized expanders for my bullets. I feel like this takes out some of the variation in neck tension that can occur with a borderline loose sizing die and mixed brass. And AFAIC, if you can load plain base cast bullets 18BHN or lower using a stock (~0.002" under jacketed diameter) expander plug in mixed brass that isn't paper thin and experience absolutely no swaging, it's because your sizing die IS on the loose end, and your stock expander plug is actually not doing anything besides flaring the case mouth. It might FEEL like it's expanding, but it's just elastically stretching the case a little, because the case is already the right size to take a bullet.

I also have a loose Lee 223 die, and I have to toss some of my brass due to no neck tension. OTOH, I have a Hornaday rifle die that is so tight, it stretches and mucks up the brass with the regular pull thru expander. I sanded the neck on that die and switched to an M expander.

OP, if I had your die, I would have probably kept it and ordered a 452/456 expander plug from NOE for my 452 cast bullets.

[brassrat]

My stuff is all Lee and seems right on. Lately, as in last couple years, I skip the flare steps, on handguns and use M dies on everything. I don't miss the way a boolet didn't seem straight, at pre-seating, like putting a square plug in a round hole.

[John C]

gloob;

Thanks for pointing me to the NOE expander plugs. I've never seen them before. Although I don't use Lee powder dies, the concept does look interesting. I wonder if someone makes a Dillon version of these?

Thanks,

-John

[44man]

Redding makes a two ring size die for the .45. I read about it in a gun rag but can't find it in my catalogs, don't remember if it works on the ACP. It has a larger ring for the base.
The other solution to the problem is to toughen the boolit so it does not get sized.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Over the years I've had Lee dies for so many different cartridges I can't count them. I've never had a bad die from Lee. When I get good products from a company over and over again, and never get a bad one, I tend mightily to dismiss the naysayers. They'll probably jump all over me now, but I stand by my experience.
Amen Tatum!!!

[lightman]

I've never had that problem with any of my RCBS or Dillon dies. I load mostly cast bullets in my handguns. I did have a problem long ago with a set of Herters dies, but a set of RCBS dies solved that problem.

[Bullwolf]

gloob;

Thanks for pointing me to the NOE expander plugs. I've never seen them before. Although I don't use Lee powder dies, the concept does look interesting. I wonder if someone makes a Dillon version of these?

Thanks,

-John

While I haven't used them myself, I have seen a few different ones made for the Dillon by others.

These for example, not made to custom size and kinda pricey at $38.95 are for sale at Midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2670460203/double-alpha-mr-bulletfeeder-dillon-powder-funnel

Double Alpha Mr. BulletFeeder Dillon Powder Funnel

http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/powder-funnels.jpg

You can find em on Ebay sometimes too.

I think I'd look for some feedback from a Cast Boolit user, before purchasing however.


- Bullwolf

[John C]

Bullwolf;

Thanks for the tip. I'll probably try one from Midway. When I get it, I'll measure it. If it looks good, I'll use it. If not, I'll ship it back.

Thanks,

-John