Help with .45 ACP

[John C]

I'm loading commercially cast 160 gr SWC. They measure right at .451 diameter (a little small, in my opinion). I loaded the bullets in my Dillon 550 using Lee dies, and when I pulled a bullet and measured it, the case has swaged the bullet down to .448. I'm using the standard Dillon powder funnel, which is expanding the case to .448. I'm crimping these to .468.

Is that how you guys load .45 ACP cast bullets? Or are you using a different technique to load these?

I'm loading these over 5.9 gr of 700x to run at 990 fps (confirmed over a chronograph). I'm getting okay accuracy, and a little leading. These bullets are on the harder side, and ladder testing confirmed that this is the most accurate load using 700x. My theory is that these bullets need a higher pressure load to obdurate after being swaged down. But I'm interested in changing my technique so that these bullets are swaged down less during loading, but are held sturdy enough to not be set back during operation in a 1911.

Thanks,

-John

[bruce381]

I cast mine and size to .432 you can try LESS crimp I use .471-.472 Tapper crimp separately

[GhostHawk]

Well I'm doing things somewhat different.

I'm using the Lee .452 228 gr lube groove mold.
Using Range lead with perhaps a bit of added tin, just enough for good fill.
Shooting them as cast. Air cooled

I drop my boolits into a glass dish with a pat of much modified kinda sorta something like Ben's Red.
The hot boolits melt this, and as I cast every so often I do a little swirl. In effect, tumble lubing into the lube grooves.

Then a finish coat of Ben's Liquid Lube. (Love this stuff, super easy, works awesome)

Cases get sized, primers punched, then the powder through expander die to open the mouths.
Somewhere along in here they get primers, and either 4 gr of Red Dot or 3 Gr of Titewad.
And at last they get married up with a big lead boolit and get slid down into the case.
Case mouth after seating and possibly FCD is .470 or so. So I doubt my bullets are getting squished much.

I have learned for my gun to set them somewhat deep, OAL 1.41 or so.

I do up a batch of 40 to 50, and give each bullet the plunk test.
Anything that doesn't drop smoothly to flush fit into the barrel gets a trip through the FCD. (And may get a tap on the nose to seat it a touch deeper)

None of the above I consider standard, or the way it "should" be done. Or even recommended for someone else.
It is just the way I do it.

But, what I do have are bullets that are large enough to not cause leading, decent accuracy (or so the guys at the range tell me)
Reasonable amount of recoil, and are just plan fun to load, and shoot.

I hope something of this helps.

[Cmm_3940]

Sounds like you need a wider bell on your cases. They shouldn't be swaging down. Any leading at all is a good indication of undersize bullets and/or poor quality lube. Since these are commercial cast sized to .451 my first reaction is to think it's a bit of both. .451 is on the small side for cast in many guns, and you're making them even smaller when loading. Also, commercial cast aren't known for having very good lube, since it doesn't ship well. I'd suggest belling your cases a bit more and going from there.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

.451 is a bit marginal...usually .452 is preferred and may give better results. I also use a taper crimp of .471 and measure my case lengths to help keep that measurement constant. I don't have any swaging effect as I don't use a Dillon or its funnel so can't comment on the pros or cons of that. I cast my own 45's and size to .452...although nothing as light as 160 grains....I work in the 185 to 230 range and most of my loads are around 810fps or less as I do mostly Bullseye and like to keep the recoil lower. With a sizing of .452 there is a bit less chance of any setback as well. It seems logical that if there is no swaging down to a smaller diameter than it would not be necessary to run a higher pressure to insure obturation....Pressure is something that can make one nervous especially if it pounds the gun more, so a lot of folks tend to shy away from it. Just a thought. As for a little leading...that is like a slight touch of pregnancy...it tends to build up. As for accuracy, okay is one thing, but better or best accuracy is where you want to go. Hope this has helped. LLS

[Fluxed]

You need a larger expander.

[bangerjim]

I found from a LOT of messing around, I had to size 451 and use Lee FCD to get my rounds to "plop" and cycle in my 1911 45ACP match grade barrel gun.

452 caused the case to bulge enough to prevent the cart from going all the way into the chamber.

But that is MY gun.......not YOUR gun. Listen to all the ideas.......but experiment around.

Good luck! :2_high5:

banger-j

[runfiverun]

I size my about half as hard as your storebought boolits to 452.
I don't use the Dillon dies made for jacketed ammo [even though I have several sets]
except as the final crimp die for a couple of my rounds.
I generally use LEE carbide size dies, the Dillon powder funnel to give enough case mouth flair to hold the boolit on the way into the seating die, usually an rcbs seating die, and then a separate taper crimp die.

[mac45]

Agree with the above, you're over crimping.
Back it off to .471-.472 and try a batch.

[John C]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your replies. I will try back off to .471-2 and see what happens.

[Char-Gar]

Here it is..

1. Use bullets of 200 to 230 grains weight
2. Buy some RCBS, Redding or Lyman dies
3. Use a taper crimp die as the last operation.

There are good sound reasons to do this, but I don't feel like writing a treatise on how to reload the 45 ACP round for the 1911 pistol...again.

This round has been reloaded with cast and jacketed bullets for over 100 years and there are no secrets and no new ways to success.

[prs]

There are no new secrets, but maybe a bunch of old ones. I have reloaded for many years, began in 1976. Never had any problems I did not figure out myself until I finally started shooting 45ACP a few years back. This old "easy to load" round was kick'n me **** with leading. The guys here, some of the above posters and several others, really helped me out. For me it came down to two of the several possible variables. The lube and the gun(s). I was trying to use tumble allox. NRA 50:50 was much better. Then the guns were modern manufacture with very sharp and abrupt chamber to rifling leade that was shaving my boolits and leading the barrel. The barrels were reamed and no more problems. Might even shoot that Lee Alox, but that is not for me. I mostly shoot powder coat boolits now.

I already had internal size/belling die for .452" LEAD boolits and I already knew to taper crimp as a separate final step and to make sure the boolits were NOT smaller after seating. Your boolits are getting smaller, you need to resolve that and a larger internal sizer is the way. M die or RCBS Cowboy are possibles or those that Char Gar recommended. If you are Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die crimping, run some rounds without it and see if the pulled boolits are still.451" on your micrometer. One way or another you have to solve that problem. Commercial boolits are notoriously over hard for ideal 45ACP use and they typically have overly hard Crayola or UPS type lube, such lube being generally lousy for the application. Also check your clean barrel after tracing the leade with a sharp probe to see if the leade is too abrupt for lead. Good luck.

prs

[fredj338]

The expander/funnel seems a bit small, you could always as for a replacement. I agree, way too much crimp & if you are using the LFCD, stop, go with a regular TC die. I shoot 0.452" bullets in all my 1911s, including my Barsto match grade. I use Dillon dies & crimp about 0.471". It will vary slightly with case thickness.

[John C]

Char-gar and prs;

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. The Dillon powder funnels are only available in one size (whatever comes from Dillon). I've had a couple of them custom made at .451 and .452, but I haven't got them running, yet. That is the next thing to tackle. I'll then back off the crimp.

I'm using Lee dies for stations 1 (sizing and de-priming) and 3 (seating). I'm using a Hornady taper crimp die in station 4, and the Dillon powder funnel in station 2. One thought I had is the perhaps the Lee sizing die is sizing my brass too small for this application. I don't use Dillon Factory Crimp dies.

Prs, I especially appreciate your comments about chamber leades. I will look into that. I'm shooting a Kimber Gold Match II and a Springfield Armory Trophy Match. These easily could have leade issues.

I am looking at purchasing a softer bullet next time. Although I do cast, I am purchasing these bullets due to the amount I need to have on hand. I don't cast frequently enough to keep me in .452 bullets for Bullseye. Quality Cast appears to have softer bullets, and their 160 gr bullets have a square base, versus the bevelled base on the Valiant bullets I'm using. I have a thousand or so Quality Cast 200 gr bullets to try on the long line. Others report excellent results with 160 gr on the short line.

Thank you,

-John