Pouring technique?

[tddeangelo]

So, doing a "trial run" to pour some boolits yesterday, I realized I know jack squat about actually pouring the lead.

I found that if I was careful with the lever I could make a nice smooth stream that gently filled the cavity and made a little puddle on top, but I ALWAYS got wrinkles or voids.

If I put the mold up to the spout (spout into the recess in the sprue plate) and carefully opened the valve, I got great fill out and no wrinkles, with a rare small void in the base. The problem was, about 1 time in 5, some lead would squirt out a couple drops from the sides (traveled maybe 2" from the mold, but would make enough of a mess that it was super annoying, and was glad for the long fireplace gloves I had on, that's for sure!).

Not sure what I learned from that, other than I'm not doing it right, lol.

[Eddie17]

My novice opinion, run the mold hotter with a slight gap between mold and pour stream.

[Mike W1]

My three tips (that I learned from others and experience) is you need about 1/4" separation, a smoooooth flow of metal, and pour directly into the middle of the sprue hole. And of course temperature is also important and not the same for all alloys.

[JSnover]

If the above methods don't work try this: hold the mold under the spout, not more than 1/2",just a little bit off center, so the stream swirls a bit on the sprue plate countersink before filling the cavity. I've done it. YMMV.

[Yodogsandman]

Try increasing the flow of the lead stream if it's adjustable. That and cast faster without looking at your boolits to increase the heat of your mold. Pour a generous sized sprue puddle each time, too. You can slow down a little once you start getting frosted boolits. Some molds like different things but, this works with most of them.

[tddeangelo]

That's the thing.... I thought they did look somewhat frosted. I noticed overnight they got more frosted looking though. Oxidation?

[runfiverun]

there is a difference between frosted and grey.
frosted is super galvanized and brittle usually with poor fill out on the square edges.
grey is a flat galvanized look but the edges are sharp and you can see the details in the mold very well.

[tddeangelo]

Gotcha. Then they were grey. I have a pic on my thread about my first Boolits. At the gym now on my phone between sets, lol, so I can't post it here just now.

[jimb16]

You will find that you need different techniques with different molds. Larger bullets allow you to cast more slowly than small bullets. Small bullets usually require hotter lead. I usually use about a half inch drop, but with small boolits, I will often reduce the drop to 1/4 inch or less. Don't worry about frosted boolits. It doesn't hurt anything. All the frosting does is indicate that you are getting near the max operating temp of the mold and that you may need to slow down just a little bit. Frosting is the result of differential solidification of the metals in the alloy. Some metals like antimony solidify at higher temps than metals like lead. The frosting is caused by the formation of slightly larger crystals of some of the metals. Not a big deal.

[country gent]

Experiment with the stream and and angle of the mold when filling some molds like to be slightly tilted starting the pour and tipped flat when finishing. Always pour a large sprue if possible allowing a little to flow over the side. This large sprue keeps bullet molten longer and aids in fill out of the base. It also helps keep the sprue plate hotter allowing for lead to enter smoother and better. By placing the mould onto the spout and pouring you are in effect using the pots volumne to pressure fill the mold when lowering allow it to pour a large sprue and the voids will disapear. a small sprue dosnt always allow for enough to make up for cooling shrink. You dont mention what you alloy mix is. Some pir better than others. Pure lead straight wheel weights can be hard to get good fillout and consistency. The addition of a small amount of tin 1%-2% can make a big diffrence in fill out. Temps can make a big diffrence also a barley hot enough alloy can cause issues due to pot fluctuations.

[tddeangelo]

Thanks everyone! Lots to play with next session. I have no idea what alloy it is. A buddy gave me the pot and ingots his late father made. Safe to use but no clue what the mix is.

[white eagle]

get rid of the pot and use a ladle :lovebooli

[tddeangelo]

That's my next step. I was planning to ladle the round balls I'll be making for my flintlock anyway.

[bangerjim]

Like said.....cold mold. Pre-heat your mold to CASTING TEMPERATURE B4 starting. On an electric hotplate.

The following assumes you are using a bottom pour pot and 6 cavity mold.

I do not "gently" and "carefully" fill the cavities! I put the HOT mold under the spigot, lift (actually sorta slam) the handle up and do a continuous pour for all 6 cavities at one time. Do not mess around. Move quickly from one sprue hole to another without shutting the flow off. Go for it!

When the sprue overflow turns frosty gray (3-5 seconds) cut the sprue and dump the mold. If the sprues cut real hard, your mold is not hot enough. It should take very little effort to cut them. Repeat until your arms fall off or you get enough boolits! You will be AMAZED at how many quality boolits you can turn out in a very short time.

If you have tons of time on your hands, use a ladle. I have GOOD one and never use it any more. Too time consuming. I would rather be shooting than ladle casting.

This is not rocket science. Very easy to do. Just practice. And preheat your molds.

banger-j

[krallstar]

i tried ladle pore first and could not get it right. Bought the lee 20lb bottom pore and except for a little drip every now and then it's great.

[jeepyj]

Like said.....cold mold. Pre-heat your mold to CASTING TEMPERATURE B4 starting. On an electric hotplate.

The following assumes you are using a bottom pour pot and 6 cavity mold.

I do not "gently" and "carefully" fill the cavities! I put the HOT mold under the spigot, lift (actually sorta slam) the handle up and do a continuous pour for all 6 cavities at one time. Do not mess around. Move quickly from one sprue hole to another without shutting the flow off. Go for it!

When the sprue overflow turns frosty gray (3-5 seconds) cut the sprue and dump the mold. If the sprues cut real hard, your mold is not hot enough. It should take very little effort to cut them. Repeat until your arms fall off or you get enough boolits! You will be AMAZED at how many quality boolits you can turn out in a very short time.

If you have tons of time on your hands, use a ladle. I have GOOD one and never use it any more. Too time consuming. I would rather be shooting than ladle casting.

This is not rocket science. Very easy to do. Just practice. And preheat your molds.

banger-j

^^^^Good sound advice ^^^^
jeepyj

[mdr8088]

I've never used a bottom poor pot. I've always used a ladle. I know you don't want to try to cast out side when it's windy. It's harder to keep a steady temp when your lifting lead in and out. Once you get your mold hot and your casting. Get into a rhythm. Watch your sprue, and how fast it hardens up. The longer it takes the hotter your mold is. Pace yourself. It's faster to take a little time and make good boolits than to have to recast bad ones. Wrinkly is too cold, frosted is of course to hot. If you can keep a pace that's right for the temp you have your pot set at, you'll get more uniform boolits. It you have to wait for the sprue to harden you can try slowing down or reducing the temp on your pot. I run my Lee 20lb pot at 4 or 5. Then watch my sprue, if it takes more than 3 or 4 seconds, I know I have to slow down.
I've also noticed if you get some of the Lee mold lube your supposed to apply to the pivot points and the pins on the mold face it finds it's way into the cavities and will cause them not to fill out. That's probably me being to sloppy with it.

[mongoose33]

Couple of things I have picked up from this site:

1. Sometimes with a bottom-pour pot the spout cools between pours; one solution is to "prime" the spout by releasing a small amount of alloy into a pan or whatever before pouring for real, to bring the first stream of alloy to temp; otherwise it's too cold. IIRC Goodsteel was the source of this.

2. I was struggling w/ poor fills in a Lee 6-boolit mold; someone--I'd credit them if I could remember--suggested instead of filling in order from the end cavity to the cavity by the handles, that I go from the handles to the end. The handles draw off heat from the mold, cooling the end by the handles faster than on the other end. Solution was to start the pour at the handle-end of the mold.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks everyone! Lots to play with next session. I have no idea what alloy it is. A buddy gave me the pot and ingots his late father made. Safe to use but no clue what the mix is.
You are on the right path.
Keeping pouring, trying different things. There is more than one answer. The best answer is one you figure out yourself, for your individual equipment and alloy.

Also, as said above, pre-heating a mold is a great hint. It is the one thing I found in the early stages of my casting hobby that made a huge difference...at least in the first 100 pours of the casting session.

[44man]

get rid of the pot and use a ladle :lovebooli
:drinks::drinks::drinks::drinks:

[tddeangelo]

Honestly, I'd hoped to do both. I've done some reading on the American Long Rifle forums about casting round balls, and for larger caliber, there's a lot of folks who feel bottom-pouring produces voids inside the ball. I'll be pouring either 0.600 or 0.610 balls, so they are definitely a larger caliber. :)

I figured I'd bottom pour boolits and ladle for round ball casting, but at this point, I'm having fun messing around with it to see what works for me. :)

[bangerjim]

Size does not really matter! I pour 1.2" round balls in a special 4 cav mold I have with my bottom pour pots (!!) with perfect fill and no voids or wrinkles.....BECAUSE I pre-heat the mold to CASTING TEMP B4 even starting. Pre-heating is defnintely advantageous when pouring very large castings so as not to suck the heat out of the molten metal too fast.

A standard ladle will not even hold enough lead to fill one or two cavities of this mold, let alone 4. I cast many different cals in many sizes and have found no advantage of using a ladle other than using valuable time.

Both pour techniques will get you there with excellent quality boolits, one just a whole lot faster.

[tddeangelo]

What the guys at ALR were saying was there would be internal voids in the larger balls? That if you cut one in half, you'd see them, and if seeing a large weight variation in the balls molded, that voids were likely the cause.

I don't KNOW any of that first-hand, lol, so take it with a grain of salt.

[bangerjim]

Pouring a large volume of molden lead into a large cavity cold mold could create voids. That is why you must have the mold at casting temp to insure the molten lead stays that way while the fill is completed. Also provide a good sized sprue puddle because those large cavities will shrink.

I have checked my "big ones" and they are all darned near all the exact same weight every single time.

Good luck with your big ball casting!

[gwpercle]

I never could master the bottom pour pot, started with a Lyman ladle and have gone back to it.
Got a nice bottom pour pot if I ever need it.
But I can help with the lead mess etc. Get an old sheet cake, jelly roll or pizza pan (thrift store or ask wife) and set the pot on it, 99% of the mess will be caught , then after the pot cools, clean up the hardened, cooled, lead bits and put it back in the pot for next time.
Just get something that is bigger than you think necessary and non-coated.
Gary

[kbstenberg]

You could ask an experienced caster from this site to help demonstrate if any are local.

[fredj338]

When I can't get good fill out, I pressure cast. Hold the spout in contact with the mold & release at full to make your spur. This always gives me good fill out. I tried ladle casting about 35 yrs ago & the BP pot is my choice.

[243winxb]

Heat is your friend.

[JeffG]

I have a bottom pour Lee pot that I've used for 20+ years and it is hard to beat when pouring 6 cavity molds. I started ladle casting much more recently, and feel it has it's place, and I prefer it for rifle bullets since I feel like I can finesse some molds a little better, that may be a little picky about technique. You will find each mold may require something a little different in temperature, pouring technique, etc.


Honestly, I'd hoped to do both. I've done some reading on the American Long Rifle forums about casting round balls, and for larger caliber, there's a lot of folks who feel bottom-pouring produces voids inside the ball. I'll be pouring either 0.600 or 0.610 balls, so they are definitely a larger caliber. :)

I figured I'd bottom pour boolits and ladle for round ball casting, but at this point, I'm having fun messing around with it to see what works for me. :)

[goofyoldfart]

I ladle pour, because as JeffG says about finessing molds, I have several that require a little more TLC in the pour issue. Plus I just enjoy ladle pouring for the last 55-60 years.:lol: God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy Godfrey

[mold maker]

It seems that what ever method we first had success with, is the prefered method. Kind of a don't mess with success thing. I do both with little rhyme or reason. But the old SAECO BP pot is still my preference.
As I've aged, the weight of a ladle of lead, added to the weight off a mould has made me turn more to the BP pot. It seems that the less demanding pot handle, makes a difference, after an hr or so.
Our ancestors cast with home made ladles, around the evening campfire, and they obviously had success, so that method has stood the test of time.
I can just imagine the resistance, to using a BP, when they first appeared.
Truth is there is very little difference since both methods are simply filling the mould with the melt before it cools.

[country gent]

I ladle cast almost all my rifle bullets (38 cal, 40cal, and 45 cal.) these are all heavy for caliber and cast 20-1 alloy for black powder. I have cast with bottom pour pots (Lee) and from diffrent solid pots ( dutch oven, a 30 lb pot and a cut down propane tank) My experiance has been that I get a taller steeper bell curve with ladle poured bullets from the bigger pots. SOme reasons for this is faster fill from the modified ladles, ability to "overpour" the mould keeping sprue and base molten longer, and with the big pot ( 120-130 lbs capacity) heat variations are much fewer with this much of a mass of metal, and last is simply the fact that this is what Im used to now. Familiarity and confidence goe a long ways towards consistency.

[popper]

Fill from the handles out, more leverage to cut the cooler sprue puddle.