Resizing after sizing, to seat gc's?

[huntinlever]

Hey all, have 350-400 or so bullets cast and ready to gc. Had a small amount yesterday, 60 or so good out of 100, and sized yesterday through the Lee push-through.

In anticipation of some gc's that were estimated to arrive via USPS today, I did a much more substantial casting session today, a few hundred good bullets. The gc's are as it turns out still en route and will be expected to arrive tomorrow.

So, I'm sizing through the Lee at .460. Once sized, if there's a couple days' delay before seating gc's, would you do any work-softening (and negate the couple days' age hardening effect) by passing the bullets through again, at the same diameter? I can gc seat in the Lee, or, alternatively, I'm getting an RCBC sizer and I will be sanding the die out to .461 for lubing and gc seating, if I seat here v. the Lee. So I know I should be OK if I wait to lube and gc through the RCBS.

But for now, just a question if you can do two passes through the Lee, couple days' apart, without any impact on hardening, so long as it's the same sizer diameter both times. Thanks.

[454PB]

Did you heat treat?

If yes, any softening by sizing was done by the first pass through, assuming they were reduced in diameter enough for that to happen.

What I do when oven heat treating is to size the boolits, heat treat, then run them through the same sizing die to add lube. When I water drop, I size them within a few hours AND lube at the same time.

The bottom line is that once they have been sized down, any additional trips through that same die will not further reduce the hardness.

[huntinlever]

454, thanks for the post. I water quenched but don't plan to oven treat. I've a friend who worked with his mould maker, and it's their opinion the work softening effect is mitigated by doing it early, as you describe - so I, too, try to size within a couple of hours after dropping. Is this your view as well?

Thanks, too, on the idea re: gc's and resizing. Have to wait a couple weeks on getting the RCBS, but it's a lot of fun and things are falling into place nicely.

Thought occurs to me - but since it's only the bands that are sized (right?), if there is work softening, it only affects the bands - and for obturation, that's a good thing, right? And on hitting a target, the bands may give some but once pressure of the hit and penetration into the animal starts to occur, you've got a bullet that is hardened per whatever hardening regimen you followed (excepting the bands, if they are indeed softened appreciably). Does this make sense (I might be overthinking thism, wouldn't be the first time).

Thanks again.

[gloob]

IMO, when using the Lee sizer, you should gas check the bullets before sizing, if possible, and it has nothing to do with the water quench/hardness. The force of sizing pushes the bullet hard against the seating stem, trapping the gas check against the perpendicular surface of said seating stem as it gets crimped in place.

My bullets all come out with straight, fully seated gas checks this way, even if the sprue cutoff has a little bump.

[huntinlever]

Gloob, thanks - I had wondered that! I hope I haven't screwed things up because that's a lot of bullets over the last couple days. I should probably re-melt all the bullets and do it the right way. Wouldn't be the worst thing - like night and day, the improvement over yesterday, my first day.

I think I will - thanks for that note as I did wonder and it makes great sense. One question - if I RCBS-lubed (performed better than Imperial wax in lubing the Lee) these bullets when sizing, do I have to wash them well before putting them back, or will this lube float or otherwise be picked up and discarded with the dross, when fluxing tomorrow?

One other question, guys - I mentioned the Lee pot seemed to want a heck of a lot higher temp to avoid wrinkles....unless I heated up the pot temp without trying a lower temp, but with the mould truly heated up (e.g., making sure my mould was nice and hot, maybe 700 or so would yield just as good a fillout?). I ask because some, maybe 1 out of every 6 bullets didn't look frosted so much as a kind of rough surfacing - not knobs or anything like that, but a kind of roughness or really, really tiny bumps. I'm guessing that's higher heat, though I'm not sure.

Appreciate the help.

Does this 875-880 seem too hot to you guys?

[facetious]

What I came up with was to lap a Lee die to the size that I wanted and then lapped the lube/sizer die so that I could just push a sized boolit through with finger pressure. I would size the boolit soon after casting and WDing in the Lee die and then let them age harden. Then I would use the lube/sizer to seat the gas check and lube them.

This made the check just a hair bigger then the boolit but not much and seamed to help keep the lube from getting under the boolit in the lube die. The boolits were sized for a tight fit in throats of my gun so I think that the checks may have had a little extra scraping effect as I all most never had any leading in the throats.

[huntinlever]

Facetious, that's pretty close to what Crusty does (so I got this 2-stage sizing from him)....he has a custom push through at .460, and lubes at .461 in his sizer....the idea being that the lube tends to do better when it isn't squished so closely. Interesting on using the larger die for the gc seating. That, actually, was a bit of concern for me - having learned a bit more on the action of the initial sizing to crimp the gc as it passes through the die - so, I wondered if you'd have issues with insufficient attachment if using the larger die/sizer to seat the gc. Apparently that's not an issue for you, then - no worries about a gc coming off on combustion?

[huntinlever]

Fascinating, thanks Deadpool. I need to think more on what you're saying because I think there's a lot there I'd really like to absorb.

I think I'm concluding my gc'ing after sizing may not yield the best result. So, I think I'm going to see the last couple days as a good start in practice, remelt and this time gc at first sizing.

Still interested, facetious, if you're ever back on the thread, on this notion of using the larger die to gc seat as a benefit, this "scraping" the bore with the slightly (+.001 or so) larger gc. Again my main concern there, is tightly crimping the gc, but I think that notion you mention is interesting, would love to hear more.

Deadpool, back to you, one question:


then place a GC on the boolit by hand

-this is something, actually, I may be wanting to do, anyway, thinking I may forego sizing altogether - my mould is an Accurate mould at .460, but with some added tin, I believe it may come out just a hair more. I wouldn't mind if whatever excess is there, is bore-sized on firing.

BTW, I saw a banner saying anyone registering with a free e-mail (I use gmail) will be deleted (not sure why, but I did contact admin and hopefully it will be made clear). In the event my account is gone, just want to say thanks to this community, I've learned a considerable amount in my time here and though I would have enjoyed a longer time with y'all, it's been great.

[pworley1]

I have never had any problems sizing and seating gas checks in one pass.

[Geezer in NH]

This post lost me completely. Question please? You are sizing the Boolits because the Gas Checks did not arrive?? WHY?? Huh Still lost.

[huntinlever]

This post lost me completely. Question please? You are sizing the Boolits because the Gas Checks did not arrive?? WHY?? Huh Still lost.

Because I'm an impatient freak. Geeked to start being part of the boolit squad. Making up for 40 years of not shooting, after hunting like a demon all my young life. I got more, if'n you want.....[smilie=1: Just to clarify, no, I cast a bunch of bullets today as I thought my gc's would be arriving and I could size and gc in one pass. Because they're not here, I think I'll start over tomorrow, providing I actually have the gc's.

And now, it's dusk and closing fast...meaning, I can't even smelt my lubed bullets until tomorrow!:lovebooli

[huntinlever]

NO! Don't be "social engineered" by banners! Admins and mods have no control over banner content. I bet a vast majority of folks here would "be deleted" if it were true! And they would know that, and not want that to happen. Outrageous! Reminds me of a guy that physically destroyed his computer over a pop-up.


Oh, hahahah - betrays how little I know about all things webmastering. I thought it was a warning from the mods, and was bummed as I was about to see...cough, cough.....my distinguished career here go nuked....:violin:

[gunoil]

l like one pass like said above.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg.html)

[Centaur 1]

I might be overthinking this, wouldn't be the first time

I'm reading all of your posts and I can't help but think that you sound like me 5 years ago. I started this crazy hobby out of necessity after a couple of back surgeries which caused my income level to drop considerably. I was so grateful that casting allowed me to keep shooting, that I tried to absorb all the information at once. The best advice I got was to not over think it. It'll probably take you years to get to the point where you'll notice the difference between bullets that were sized at different times, I still can't. I cast whenever I start getting low on bullets, and I size them when I get free time. The most important aspects of a gas checked rifle bullet is consistency between the bullets, and a well formed flat base that's free of bumps, divots or flashing. Obviously it would be great if every bullet weighed exactly the same, but even more important is that the gas check sits flush and square to the base of the bullet.