Making this Easy, If Possible

[ChristopherO]

Once Marlin starts producing their 1895 CB in 45/70 this summer I plan to purchase one now that we can use this caliber in Ohio for deer. Sounds like much fun. Thing is I want to use cast but am busy enough that I don't want it to be terribly complicated with all the various alloys, lubes, molds and such. I did a tiny bit of casting in the late 90's for a 30/06 and quite a bit of soft lead casting conical slugs for muzzleloaders over the years and have a fairly solid idea of the procedure. I've been a reloader for nearly 30 years but have put it on hold the past 6. I have a lyman lube/sizer, too, from the 30/06 days. There is even a couple hundred pounds of lead of various hardness in the storage shed, from very soft to WW, plumbing lead pipes and even a pig of linotype, (also, some little letters and numbers from a printing press, too). Over the past 20 years or so I've put them away for "when ever".
I tend to like what I see with the WFN bullets of 405 grains for my all around application of fun shooting and meat gathering. I am not interested in going too exotic, just a good working man's load that shoots from 1,600 to 1,900 fps with some expansion out to 200 yards, though most shots will be within 100. Accuracy is always the goal. Trying to keep it from breaking the budget is another.

I've been reading up on this subject on this site lately. It can be daunting to see all the ways this job can be done and I don't want to allow it to be overly complicated. I miss shooting and want to spend time on the range again.

Here is the question/s: Without devoting my life to this pursuit, as I have done with other hobbies much to my determent, what do you suggest as a solid path to take to get started; good lube, plain base or GC, plain WW, #2, 50/50, air cooled or water dropped, Lee/Lyman/Accurate/NOE mold, etc..? Men of knowledge, lay out a plan of action that keeps me from scrambling once I have a rifle and desire to enjoy it rather than tinker in frustration with it for months on end.
Thanks for your help and direction.
Christopher

[alfloyd]

I use the RCBS 405 grain round flat nose gas checked slug in my 1895 CB.
I like it very much as it is accurate and easy to cast.
I would use clip on wheel weights with 2% tin added, it cast better with the tin.
I load then to about 1350 FPS.

Lafaun

[JSnover]

Emmerts is my favorite lube for the 45-70 because it is simple to make and works with either black or smokeless powder.
With a 350 grain boolit you won't have to push them very fast for deer, so i wouldn't bother with a gas check mold.

[bhn22]

Focus on bullet design for hunting, and don't count on expansion for cast bullets. A good, well designed flatpoint cast bullet will do everything you need. This meshes neatly with the necessity of a flatpoint design for a tubular magazine anyway. The afore mentioned 405 gr RCBS would serve you well, unless you really want a more exotic design.

[runfiverun]

1600 to 1900 fps,, man you must have your retinas glued in.
1600 is more than enough to penetrate two buffalo with a 400 plus grain boolit.

[45-70 Chevroner]

1600 to 1900 fps,, man you must have your retinas glued in.
1600 is more than enough to penetrate two buffalo with a 400 plus grain boolit.
You stole my thunder!!! But you are right. I would keep my loads down to about 1350 but not over 1400. That rifle is capable of 3" groups or less at a 100 yards and even at that velocity and distance it will still shoot through a Bison. 1600 to 1900 is pure murder.

[DrCaveman]

Im with you last two, some of my first 45-70 loads used varget to push the lee 405 about 1650 fps... That was a beast in my handi rifle. Only 3" turkey loads in a pardner 12 gauge kicked harder, in my limited experience.

I dunno, you might think of trying something closer to 325-350 grains, loaded around 1500-1700. A little better trajectory, much easier on the brain and eyeballs. Water dropped 50/50 ww/lead aught to hold up, and punch a nice hole.

If you havent been casting in a while, then you may not appreciate the awesomeness of the Accurate and NOE moulds. Id get a Lee to get yourself back in the swing of things, then drop the requisite $120 +/- for a brass mould from Tom or Swede once you know you're not going to ruin the thing

Good luck

[Bodean98]

I've been reading up on this subject on this site lately. It can be daunting to see all the ways this job can be done and I don't want to allow it to be overly complicated. I miss shooting and want to spend time on the range again.

Here is the question/s: Without devoting my life to this pursuit, as I have done with other hobbies much to my determent, what do you suggest as a solid path to take to get started; good lube, plain base or GC, plain WW, #2, 50/50, air cooled or water dropped, Lee/Lyman/Accurate/NOE mold, etc..? Men of knowledge, lay out a plan of action that keeps me from scrambling once I have a rifle and desire to enjoy it rather than tinker in frustration with it for months on end.
Thanks for your help and direction.


If I may comment here. As a nooob myself, who's story is not too far from yours, I would advise you to stick with j-words. This hobby is ADDICTING! Quick, run away and save youself. :lovebooli

[ChristopherO]

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. I figured some responses would suggest I stay in the 1250-1350 fps range and I respect your opinion. Having killed many deer with 50 caliber muzzleloader conicals and 12 gauge slugs in that velocity range I am wanting something with a bit more umph. Now that certain straight wall cartridges are approved the thought of putting more pepper behind a bullet appeals to me. Unless spine hit I've never had a bang/flop with 355 grain conicals or 425 grain slugs, even when the heart is turned into lasagna. I read about all these DRT stories with the 45/70 and cannot for the life of me see why it will do any better than what I've already been using at the same velocity.
Reading the threads of those shooting 1,600 up it sounds like that is a common occurrence. I'm intrigued.
I'll look the Lyman mold up. How wide of a melplat is necessary? The Accurate 460/405V looks awesome but not sure I want to dole out that much money just yet.
Thanks

[TXGunNut]

1600 to 1900 fps,, man you must have your retinas glued in.
1600 is more than enough to penetrate two buffalo with a 400 plus grain boolit.

Even with a long eye relief scope my Guide Gun starts kissing my bifocals with a 405 at around 1700, I
hunt with a 350 at around 1700. My bifocals are safe but any critter is in serious trouble.

[starmac]

405 grain with a big meplat already has the needed expansion even shot in a slingshot.

[StrawHat]

Having taken Ohio white tails with a 45 caliber revolver and 260 grain boolits, I am not sure you need much more than a 300 grain boolit from the 45-70. Perhaps the Gould boolit or the solid version of the same, at black powder velocities. Contrary to popular belief, the 45-70 is not a magic cartridge. Bullet placement and penetration are still required for success.

I have had good results, on paper, with the Lee 340 grain boolit and the mold is inexpensive. While I use black powder, comparable smokeless loads are available.

Kevin

[Wayne Smith]

Lyman 457122 Gould HP, you have history on your side. Orignially designed for eastern whitetails in the 45-70. Shoot it anywhere from 1200fps to 1500fps, you get more meat damage the faster you go. It's all you need for what you are doing. Water dropped wheel weights will do the job, at the slower speeds you can use air cooled. It likes midrange powers, mine likes 3031 in an Encore and a Marlin.

[largom]

RCBS 45-405-FN sized to .460 [if necessary], loaded with Varget, 3031, RL-7, with 1 grain of Dacron over powder if you want and loaded to the velocity of your choice. I can get 1 1/2 in. groups at 100 yds. easy.

Larry

[45-70 Chevroner]

Lyman 457122 Gould HP, you have history on your side. Orignially designed for eastern whitetails in the 45-70. Shoot it anywhere from 1200fps to 1500fps, you get more meat damage the faster you go. It's all you need for what you are doing. Water dropped wheel weights will do the job, at the slower speeds you can use air cooled. It likes midrange powers, mine likes 3031 in an Encore and a Marlin.
I have the Lyman 457122 and it is a great boolit. In my shootings with it though, I have found is limited to about 300 yards. When you start stretching it beyond that it starts to lose it's accuracy. I have shot inch and a half groups with it at a 100.

[ChristopherO]

These are very good suggestions that I will take to heart as I prepare for this new venture. Now to research the molds and reloading charts better based on the above recommendations.
Christopher

[StrawHat]

If you would like to try before you buy a mold, check out some of the vendors on this site. Many have the Gould boolit mold (Lyman 457122).

Kevin

[MtGun44]

RCBS 405 GC to start. Aircooled wheelweight alloy. Size to groove
diam +.001 or greater. NRA 50-50 is a good place to start with
lubes, too.

I found excellent power and accuracy with 57 gr of W748 and a mag primer.
This is very accurate and runs 1750 from my GG. This is a low pressure
load due to the slow powder. Start at least 10% lower and work up.
This one will do anything you need done with a .45-70.

I suggest starting with 10-12 gr of Unique and working up into the 15 gr area
as needed for an accurate load that leaves your shoulder smiling.

[ChristopherO]

[QUOTE=StrawHat;3218814]If you would like to try before you buy a mold, check out some of the vendors on this site. Many have the Gould boolit mold (Lyman 457122).

Strawhat, are you saying I can borrow/lease a mold or buy the bullets already to load from the venders? Either of those sound like a good path to start out on.

Looked at my stash yesterday and found out the bucket of ww did not make the move a few years ago. Bother! Very little, I mean VERY LITTLE #2, as well. Plenty of pure lead and soft plumbing drain lead, though along with some roof vent boot lead, too. Plus, there is still the pig of lynotype and a basket full of what I believe is lynotype from printing press letters/numbers. Guess I will have to read up on how mix what I have to make what I need. Maybe stop at the local tire store to see what they may have on hand though I know the days of lead ww are about behind us.

Thanks, MtGun44, for your suggestions, to boot. Sounds good.

[44man]

Even a 300 gr will do the job in the 45-70. What you do NOT want is too hard if you shoot at high velocities. No reason to go to 1900 fps in the gun either. I would look for a little upset on the boolit no matter and if it means a softer alloy, that is fine if it shoots good. The 45-70 at BP velocities has never been beaten and it is a caliber that will live forever. No need to make it a .458 in any case.

[StrawHat]

The vendors will be happy to sell you cast boolits. If you like them, then you look for a mold.

Kevin