One way to deal with crazy guy with gun.

[Prospector Howard]

This happened just a few miles from my house. I'm kinda thinking it was the right way to handle this one. He just stole the gun from a Wal-Mart and was acting pretty crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGIJznCz0Kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnSFSwhfcj8

[Echo]

And he didn't even have ONE broken bone! According to the news last night...

[Schrag4]

Saw the video earlier. If the intent is to incapacitate the guy, I don't see an advantage over simply getting out of the car and shooting him. Those windshields aren't bullet-proof, are they? I wonder how much it's going to cost to fix that cruiser after driving through the brick wall. It does make for an...interesting video, though.

[2wheelDuke]

Any direct confrontation with the guy would've most likely lead to him catching some lead. The outcome works for me. I just have to wonder if they'd be backing the officer if the ending weren't as happy.

[shooterg]

All the police cars seem to have the crash/push bars on 'em. Where's the dashcam footage from the car that hit him ? That should be something.

[FISH4BUGS]

I guess we will have to change the chant from " Hands up Don't Shoot" to "Hey Man Don't Run Me Over!"

[tradbear55]

WOW!! That's one way to stop a crazy with a gun.

[JSnover]

I don't personally have an issue with it but the driver will have to explain whether or not he intentionally ran over the suspect. Maybe it was a modified PIT on a pedestrian… Works for me.

[garym1a2]

Would you want to go up against a guy with a RIFLE when you only have a handgun!
He ended it before the guy could try and use the rifle on someone.[
QUOTE=Schrag4;3217362]Saw the video earlier. If the intent is to incapacitate the guy, I don't see an advantage over simply getting out of the car and shooting him. Those windshields aren't bullet-proof, are they? I wonder how much it's going to cost to fix that cruiser after driving through the brick wall. It does make for an...interesting video, though.[/QUOTE]

[knifemaker]

It appears to have been a intentional run down and justified. The suspect was heading towards some buildings where he may end up taking a hostage at gunpoint. He was a danger to the public and police and deadly force would be reasonable under the circumstances.

[seaboltm]

Deadly force was authorized in this situation. Deadly force was used, it just turned out not to be lethal. Law enforcement is not limited to which deadly force they use once deadly force is authorized. We were taught fighting skills that were to be used only in situations where deadly force would be authorized. Hitting a guy in the head with an ASP is deadly force. If you hit a guy in the head with an ASP, you best be sure deadly force was authorized.

[JSnover]

The responding officer disagreed. The other cruiser came from behind, where he had previously shielded by the first car. Looks like excessive/unnecessary force to me. Or bad judgement at the least.

[AkMike]

That was kind of hard on the cruiser, but the bad guy went down without getting shot.

[Rick Hodges]

JSnover,

So when the guy refused to put down the rifle .... fired it instead ... were you supposed to wait til he aims it and shoots at you or others before you take him out? How many free shots would he get at you before you used deadly force? Would it have been better if he shot him, or do you not see any justification for deadly force?

[willie_pete]

I don't see the problem.

wp

[Schrag4]

Would you want to go up against a guy with a RIFLE when you only have a handgun!
He ended it before the guy could try and use the rifle on someone.

I agree with your sentiment, but if I'm not mistaken, many officers have their AR-15 ready to rock in the front of the car (don't know about this PD). Have you seen the dash cam video from the cop who shot through his own windshield at a suspect's car with an AR-15 while both were still driving through town? Went on for a minute or so, IIRC. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.

[Uncle R.]

I don't see the problem.

wp

This.

I'm not a reflexive "support your local police" puppet as most of you know. I have frequently and angrily criticized brutal and criminal police actions. That said, I have no problem with what I saw in this video. This guy was certainly a serious danger to responding officers and the whole dang community. I think the "cruiser knockout" used was appropriate and may well have saved the suspect's life. A few seconds more, perhaps another shot fired, and he would likely have died in a hail of bullets.
<
The driver of that cruiser might be a bit of a cowboy, but sometimes a cowboy is exactly what the situation requires.
No harm, no foul. I'd buy him a beer.
<
Uncle R.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think there's a lot of backstory to that event. Particularly the actions of the bad guy leading up to the resolution of the issue.
I have no problem with the event. Problem solved.

[starmac]

Personally think it was handled rather well. I can not see how deadly force could not be justified in a case like this idiot.

[Bad Water Bill]

Not sure if "swift arrow " hit the suicidal guy with his bumper or just broadsided him with the cruiser.

Taxpayers can buy a new cruiser cheaper than pay for funerals.

Now lets go have a beer on me "swift arrow" and well done.

[Petrol & Powder]

It is my understanding that the defendant:
robbed a convenience store
participated in a home invasion
burned a church
stole a vehicle
drove the stolen vehicle to the Wal Mart
stole the rifle and ammunition
and then fired a round while refusing to submit to a lawful arrest
and his escape would have presented a danger to the community.

Not only is it acceptable for the police to use deadly force to prevent his escape....I EXPECT the police to use deadly force to prevent his escape. That nut job posed an imminent threat to the public.

[texaswoodworker]

I'm quick to give bad cops the criticism they deserve, but I have no issues with how that was handled. The guy could have been shot which would have also been justifiable, but luckily for him, that officer hit him with a cruiser instead.

[starmac]

Not sure if "swift arrow " hit the suicidal guy with his bumper or just broadsided him with the cruiser.

Taxpayers can buy a new cruiser cheaper than pay for funerals.

Now lets go have a beer on me "swift arrow" and well done.

But would it be cheaper than trying him on multiple charges, taxpayer room and board, plus multiple therapists at a nuthouse for several years, only to turn him loose to eventually do it all over again. All told a bullet between the eyes would no doubt have cost the taxpayers less over the long haul.

[jcren]

I agree with buying the cop a beer. Give him a medal and I'll buy round 2!

[texaswoodworker]

But would it be cheaper than trying him on multiple charges, taxpayer room and board, plus multiple therapists at a nuthouse for several years, only to turn him loose to eventually do it all over again. All told a bullet between the eyes would no doubt have cost the taxpayers less over the long haul.
What your speaking about is a dangerous thing. Shooting someone just because its cheaper goes against the very principals this nation was founded on. If there are less lethal alternatives, the police should use them instead.

[mtncharlie1968]

I don't think the officer was really considering the two ton missile to be a "less lethal alternative". In this instance the action was acceptable, but what about the same thing happening to someone who is a legal ccw that some woman decided was an armed nut case?

[AZ-JIM]

Saw the video earlier. If the intent is to incapacitate the guy, I don't see an advantage over simply getting out of the car and shooting him. Those windshields aren't bullet-proof, are they? I wonder how much it's going to cost to fix that cruiser after driving through the brick wall. It does make for an...interesting video, though.

I don't have a problem with the way the police handled this either personally. The police need to be very careful with dispensing deadly force, ie: police shootings. Seems to me like there is alot of negative media coverage on police shootings since Ferguson. If there is an alternative to a potential gun battle then they should probably take it. If the option was to shoot the guy, who if he commited the list of crimes posted earier, and chances are this isn't his first, second or even third rodeo with police, I would have been ok with that too.

az-jim

[starmac]

I don't think the officer was really considering the two ton missile to be a "less lethal alternative". In this instance the action was acceptable, but what about the same thing happening to someone who is a legal ccw that some woman decided was an armed nut case?

In Az you don't need a cc permit, open carry is also legal and often seen. Nothing about this nutcase resembled a legally carrying guy just out for a stroll, if it did that all went out the window when he fired it after interaction with the law.
There is nothing about this case that a guy can use to bash the law, even with a huge imigination, but not to worry, somewhere in the next day or three a good one to bash will show up.

[Echo]

Far NW side of Tucson, all over the news tonight...
Not only did he not get even one broken bone, he was released from the hospital 2 days later! And went immediately into incarceration, charged with at least 12 crimes.
And the officer hit him with the front fender, knocking him in the air, and DID NOT RUN OVER HIM! There is video of him threatening the sales person with bashing in the glass front of the ammo case if she didn't open it and give him ammo. The officer gets a beer from me, too...

[Artful]

Now if he would have just avoided the wall that caused most of the damage to the patrol car.

:kidding:

[Crash_Corrigan]

I was a LEO in NYCPD from '64 to '84 and I retired as a Lieutenant. During that 20 year stint I was involved in 5 shootings where I actually hit the BG with a bullet or more. I also participated in other situations where I also fired rounds but I hit nothing and caused only minor damage to vehicles, buildings, signs and the like. All in all I fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds from my Model 10 S&W if I count the rounds that were fired during the various citizen uprisings in the late '60's and early 70's in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan.

However the NYCPD had never replenished my cartridges except during the various riots. During the riots there were Emergency Service Patrol trucks with crates of ammo and 18 round smalls boxes of .38 Special ammo were thrown to us from these trucks pretty much every day whilst the riots were going on. I always made sure to grab as many boxes as I could stash or comfortably carry and I never returned any to the department at all. Once a year all members of the force were required to attend firearms training at our outdoor range at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx. At that time all our duty and off duty weapons were examined and repairs were made at no charge and we all were required to fire at least 200 rounds at various targets and the scores were counted and recorded. However at that time we also were given an additional box of 18 rounds to switch out the normal 18 rounds load out which all uniformed members were required to carry in their revolvers and on their duty belts. This was to ensure that a NYC Police Officer would always have 18 rounds of ammo that was at least a year or less old. There was no provision for the replacement of any rounds that an officer would have fired during an on duty situation where his gun was fired. We had to buy our own wherever from out of our own pockets. Having been not a fan of the anemic 158 gr LSWC by Remington that was the authorized round by the NYCPD I had a reloading friend of mine take apart some NYCPD authorized rounds and replace the powder charge with a hefty dose of Unique powder and years later I chronographed these rounds and they moved along at over 1,000 FPS using the mandated 158 gr LSWC projectile. They had more recoil and a louder report than the normal round. They also were somewhat difficult to extract from the cylinder of my Smith after firing. Knowing that, I also carried a NY reload on my left ankle in a model 10 Smith with a 2" bbl. I also always carried 6 fired cartridge cases in a small container in my pocket to submit to the powers that be in case I had to fire off my service revolver. I imagined that a laboratory exam of my fired cases would reveal that they were reloads and I would be in a world of hurt.

So in regard to that run down of the BG in the video. Sure I would rather run the BG over than shoot him. The department would always fix or replace the cruiser but I would have to buy new cartridges or wait until the next year until I got my lousy 18 rounds of ammo.

Since I retired in '84 I have spent thousands and thousands of my money on this insane hobby of reloading and casting for my various firearms as it is very addictive and a ton of fun. At one time I had two Guild guitars and a decent set of golf clubs but with my firearms addiction I decided years ago go forgo golf and guitars and stick with guns. I have yet to regret that decision however one year I did fall back and I bought a new Martin guitar which has given me great pleasure. I am still looking for one of those Guilds which I had sold many years ago and if I find it I will buy it back even if I have to sell one my treasured guns to do so.

Since those days the NYCPD has upgraded the firearms that an officer is allowed to use. Cops in NYC are presently allowed to carry .38 Specials, 9 MM's, 40 S&W's and .45 ACP's in specified and modified firearms. Hollow pointed ammo has also been allowed and is a lot better in terminal performance than the old LSWC projectiles. All these modern upgrades came after I retired and I still have and use my Model 10 4" bbl S&W revolver. It still delivers outstanding accuracy and with inherent reliability will always have a permanent place in my gun safe although I now use up to date Corbon fail safe ammo in it for social engagements over the LSWC projectiles. However I would gladly shoot someone with a $1.75 round than damage my 2015 Nissan Frontier truck as nobody will pay my costs for hitting somebody with my vehicle.

[Wayne Smith]

My understanding is that the officer reasoned that shooting at the suspect endangered civillians in the area, and given the poor general accuracy of police firing in such encounters, I agree. His apparant stand is that his action was the safest available to the officers in that situation. Again, I agree.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

To the OP's video. Looks like the best possible outcome of a terrible situation.

[Geraldo]

IMO the officer whose dash cam we are watching should have engaged the suspect when he first encountered him. He let an armed suspect walk from an area with no other people around him to a street where there was other pedestrian traffic. Even when the suspect turned his back and started walking the officer would have been justified in shooting him as a fleeing felon that was a danger to other people.

[mold maker]

I go with the cops on this one. For a change the cops are shown making the best choice of, the lesser of all the evils.

[Bad Water Bill]

When the video began it looked like the perp had the weapon tucked under his chin as if he was contemplating suicide. The first cop kept far enough back (i think) to keep the perp from killing himself and requested that the perp put the gun down. Out of the blue "swift arrow" appeared and struck the perp sending him flying and dropping the firearm and no longer posting a threat to anyone. I have no idea where "swift arrow" perfected that move but to me it looked like a well practiced and executed move. No broken bones so the perp can not sue,nor can any relatives sue for wrongful death. Only real damage was to a squad car. What is not to like about that outcome?

[oldred]

The big question here and on other sites is "did the cop do the right thing? NO, he certainly did NOT do the right thing,,,,,,,,,,,he wasn't going nearly fast enough!!!!!!

[Rick Hodges]

The big question here and on other sites is "did the cop do the right thing? NO, he certainly did NOT do the right thing,,,,,,,,,,,he wasn't going nearly fast enough!!!!!!

Haha! He was going plenty fast enough to get the job done....God protects drunks and fools....

[ShooterAZ]

This was completely justified and the officer is being backed by his own department and not charged with wrongdoing.

[DoubleAdobe]

:drinks:

I was a LEO in NYCPD from '64 to '84 and I retired as a Lieutenant. During that 20 year stint I was involved in 5 shootings where I actually hit the BG with a bullet or more. I also participated in other situations where I also fired rounds but I hit nothing and caused only minor damage to vehicles, buildings, signs and the like. All in all I fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds from my Model 10 S&W if I count the rounds that were fired during the various citizen uprisings in the late '60's and early 70's in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan.

However the NYCPD had never replenished my cartridges except during the various riots. During the riots there were Emergency Service Patrol trucks with crates of ammo and 18 round smalls boxes of .38 Special ammo were thrown to us from these trucks pretty much every day whilst the riots were going on. I always made sure to grab as many boxes as I could stash or comfortably carry and I never returned any to the department at all. Once a year all members of the force were required to attend firearms training at our outdoor range at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx. At that time all our duty and off duty weapons were examined and repairs were made at no charge and we all were required to fire at least 200 rounds at various targets and the scores were counted and recorded. However at that time we also were given an additional box of 18 rounds to switch out the normal 18 rounds load out which all uniformed members were required to carry in their revolvers and on their duty belts. This was to ensure that a NYC Police Officer would always have 18 rounds of ammo that was at least a year or less old. There was no provision for the replacement of any rounds that an officer would have fired during an on duty situation where his gun was fired. We had to buy our own wherever from out of our own pockets. Having been not a fan of the anemic 158 gr LSWC by Remington that was the authorized round by the NYCPD I had a reloading friend of mine take apart some NYCPD authorized rounds and replace the powder charge with a hefty dose of Unique powder and years later I chronographed these rounds and they moved along at over 1,000 FPS using the mandated 158 gr LSWC projectile. They had more recoil and a louder report than the normal round. They also were somewhat difficult to extract from the cylinder of my Smith after firing. Knowing that, I also carried a NY reload on my left ankle in a model 10 Smith with a 2" bbl. I also always carried 6 fired cartridge cases in a small container in my pocket to submit to the powers that be in case I had to fire off my service revolver. I imagined that a laboratory exam of my fired cases would reveal that they were reloads and I would be in a world of hurt.

So in regard to that run down of the BG in the video. Sure I would rather run the BG over than shoot him. The department would always fix or replace the cruiser but I would have to buy new cartridges or wait until the next year until I got my lousy 18 rounds of ammo.

Since I retired in '84 I have spent thousands and thousands of my money on this insane hobby of reloading and casting for my various firearms as it is very addictive and a ton of fun. At one time I had two Guild guitars and a decent set of golf clubs but with my firearms addiction I decided years ago go forgo golf and guitars and stick with guns. I have yet to regret that decision however one year I did fall back and I bought a new Martin guitar which has given me great pleasure. I am still looking for one of those Guilds which I had sold many years ago and if I find it I will buy it back even if I have to sell one my treasured guns to do so.

Since those days the NYCPD has upgraded the firearms that an officer is allowed to use. Cops in NYC are presently allowed to carry .38 Specials, 9 MM's, 40 S&W's and .45 ACP's in specified and modified firearms. Hollow pointed ammo has also been allowed and is a lot better in terminal performance than the old LSWC projectiles. All these modern upgrades came after I retired and I still have and use my Model 10 4" bbl S&W revolver. It still delivers outstanding accuracy and with inherent reliability will always have a permanent place in my gun safe although I now use up to date Corbon fail safe ammo in it for social engagements over the LSWC projectiles. However I would gladly shoot someone with a $1.75 round than damage my 2015 Nissan Frontier truck as nobody will pay my costs for hitting somebody with my vehicle.