QUALITY CONTROL: What are Your Personal Benchmarks?

[michiganmike]

What sort of personal standards do you set for the bullets you produce?

1. With my only two rifle moulds I accept +/- .5 gr. If I cast a couple hundred bullets, I divide them into groups by weight, e.g. 50 146 gr. +/- .5 gra. 94 145.5 +/- .5 gr.

I have two rifle moulds, both 7mm. One is a Lyman Loverin design that produces a nominal 150 grain bullet.
With my WW alloy, they are typically in the 145-147 gr. range. The second is an RCBS bore rider that produces
a nominal 168 grain bullet. With my WW alloy, they weigh 180-184 gr.

2. With my one pistol mould, a Lee TL401-175-SWC .40 cal. I am not so fussy. I accept +/- 2 gr. The primary reason is that my eyes cannot handle open sights, so even at close range I do well to get rounds on paper.

3. All the bullets I produce go through several visual examinations. When they first drop out of the mould, they go back in the pot if the heel or base is at all rounded. I accept only full, crisp, square heels.

4. When the are cool enough to handle, I examine each bullet more closely. I put back in the pot any bullet that has large, pronounced wrinkles, bad pitting, or soft looking, rounded lube grooves.

5. Finally, before the first coat of Ben's LL, I weigh each bullet. If it falls outside of the weight range I have set. For example, if a bullet drops from my 7mm Loverin mould and weighing 141 grains, it goes back in the pot.

6. I do perform an occasional spot check of bullet diameter. But over time, it has proven to be very consistent for each of the three moulds I use. I don't pay close attention anymore.

Well, that is it for me. These are my personal benchmarks. I don't know if they are loose, or stringent. I have settled upon them because they give me results acceptable to me.

It gives me personal satisfaction to pick a finished bullet out of a batch I've made and know that its weight is consistent with all the others, and it "looks pretty." I see no wrinkles or pitting, the surface is smooth and shiny, and the lines and edges are sharp and distinct.

So, what do you look for in your bullets? What are your personal benchmarks? What makes a "keeper" by your personal standards?

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

MichiganMike

[fishingsetx]

Right now, I only cast 9mm and 40 cal.

Basically I do a quick visual inspection for any major deformities then most of the time they go through a sizing die and are tumble lubed with Lee alox (came with the sizing die kits). I don't weigh them. Considering the guns I am firing them out of (very short barrels) and the fact they are just my plinking ammo, for my purposes this is plenty.

If I was reloading for one of my rifles, that would be a totally different situation and I would be VERY picky on QC.

[Shiloh]

If it has a filled out base and good driving bands it gets fired. Minor imperfections are not a big deal. A lot of slightly rounded bads get fixed when going through the sizing die.

Rifle boolits get a bit more scrutiny. Still, minor blemishes don't seem to affect accuracy out to 200 yards.
That being said, I have old military relics with open ladder style peep sight. My eyes ren't as good as they once were.

[pworley1]

Everything that I cast just shooting gets a close visual inspection only. My hunting ammo gets weighed and culled.

[Smoke4320]

Rifle bullets
up to 200 grain bullets +/-.5 grain
200 to 350 grain bullets +/-1 grain

[fredj338]

I only weigh my LHP hunting bullets for the 44mag. +/- 1-2gr is no issue. I am looking for the internal void that throws more than that. Only rifle I cast for is the 45-70 & it they just get visual inspection. For general handgun use, I never weigh my bullets. I just sort by bases. As long as there are no huge flaws in the base, it's gtg.

[largom]

I cast mostly rifle boolits. Visual inspection and then weigh them. I weigh sort +- .1 grain then group the boolits into +- .3 grains. However if I have large amounts of boolits in the .1 grain column I bag/box these by them selves. These will be my "best" boolits.

Larry

[gwpercle]

If it drops out of the mould and doesn't fall on the floor.
I inspect visually , ( wear trifocals, blind in one eye but only half blind in the other) If I don't see any bad defects and the base is filled out, it gets loaded
The older you get the less picky you get.
I used to insist on perfectly cast boolits, then I got old...sorta , almost , kinda perfect will do now.
Weighing cast boolits is for the anal-OCD crowd.
Gary

[W.R.Buchanan]

I recently started weighing all my .30-31 cal. Rifle Boolits. These are pretty much all 311299's and 314299's.

I have found that the vast majority will come in at some weight, and there will be many +/-.1-2 on either side of that weight.

Those boolits get shot at the furthest targets. Ones that are further away from the mean get shot at closer targets. As long as you group these together in loaded rounds and shoot them in the same strings you're fine.

I am looking for Sharp Bases and filled out grooves with sharp edges. When the mould is running right you know it and the vast majority of boolits will be good and fall well within my "tolerance." Also I don't necessarily reject a boolit because it has a minor wrinkle in the nose section.

The rear end is the steering end and that is what matters.

For handgun boolits for my .44's all my moulds drop nearly perfect boolits every time, especially the Mihec moulds. For Auto Pistol Boolits if it looks half way decent it gets shot. Shooting at man sized targets out to 25 yards just about anything that makes it thru the barrel will hit the target if you aimed it right.

I found that weighing and segregating my Rifle Boolits made a significant difference in the accuracy of my rifles and I plan to continuing doing it.

I see no point in doing it for Auto Pistol Boolits but I can see a possibility for my .44's as they may get shot in a Rifle or a Revolver at Short Range Silhouette targets just like the .30 cal. boolits .

If you are just going to shoot at tin cans or bottles it is pointless to do anything beyond lubing and sizing.

My .02 on this subject.

Randy

[Shiloh]

If you get a rhythm going Randy, your boolits come out surprisingly consistent.

Shiloh

[milrifle]

Pistol bullets just get a visual inspection for rounded corners and wrinkles.

Rifle (95% of what I shoot) bullets get the same visual inspection. The ones that pass get weighed. I throw out anything outside of +/- 0.5% of total weight.

[gloob]

First, I carefully examine the mold prior to the casting session. I clean anything needing cleaning. I lap anything needing to be lapped. I lube the sprue plate and make sure it's screwed on tight.

Second, I keep dropping bullets until my mold is hot. Then I keep going in a new bin. I will put the wrinkled bullets back in, later. After any break, I drop the first several into the warm up bin.

Thirdly, I carefully check that the mold is perfectly closed before each cast.

Fourthly, I give the bullets from a single casting session a lot number with alloy info. Or multiple lot numbers, if I have to change alloy partway through. If I find a good accuracy with the bullets, later, I can try to make them from the same alloy. And I can save some bullets from that lot for when I need to put my best foot forward. Casting has so many variables, I just kind of take it for granted that each lot will be a little teeny bit different, and I accept that and categorize my bullets, accordingly.

After that, the only thing I really check is the base of my rifle bullets. While putting on the gas check, if I notice any deformity of the base or bulge on the sprue, I will set aside those bullets into my "seconds" pile, which also gets loaded and preferentially shot for short range plinking. While loading my unsized pistol bullets, I might notice a bullet is difficult to seat (mold not closed all the way) or that has obvious fins, and I will set it in the scrap pile.

[Harter66]

I have only been really picky about hunting bullets . I recently weighed a bunch of pistol bullets and batches of rifle boolits. A single cavity produced within a .5 window . A 6C produced 3 groups with a with a deviation of 1.2 gr (on a 265 gr boolit that is supposed to be 255.) Several rifle moulds produce a regular over under of .7 . I am happy with square bases and accept some radius on bases So long as it is uniform .

[runfiverun]

my 22 boolits are within 0.5% or they are culled. [.1 gr groups for 3 weight batches]
my 166.5gr 30 cal boolits are within .3grs. [basically 3 batches within a 1 grain spread]

plinky tinky 1900 fps stuff don't matter as long as they look good visually.
it just depends how much accuracy you want and at what speed you want it.
the more you push the more it matters [all of it]

[Tenbender]

Have you ever weighed a Remington jacketed bullet ? They will vari 3 - 4 gr in a 30 cal bullet. After weighing Rem. bullets I stopped buying them. Now I know why Rem. loaded ammo shoots so lousy. I try to cull out any of mine that is not in the 1.5 - 2 gr. range. That seems to work for me.

[Black Powder Bill]

I have many different mixes of lead. I'll run a batch of 10-15 .30 cal boolits. Weigh them and see if they are close to the mould manufactures suggested weight. If they are to light I add some Pb , to heavy add tin to the mix and toss in the first run and start over.

Once my pour is close to manufactures weight I'll finish off the pot. Mark the boolits weight and load accordingly.

I just don't have the patience to fiddle fart around with the perfect cast boolit that I'll use to shoot at random targets. Same with round ball for my ML'ers.
I've had guys rant and rave about a hollow spot in a RB. Telling me it causes flyers and isn't accurate.

I'm looking for a boolit or boolits that are all the same weight. Be they 100- 170 gr or 450gr. As long as that pot I'm pouring is consistent I'm happy.

bpb

[Harter66]

Have you ever weighed a Remington jacketed bullet ? They will vari 3 - 4 gr in a 30 cal bullet. After weighing Rem. bullets I stopped buying them. Now I know why Rem. loaded ammo shoots so lousy. I try to cull out any of mine that is not in the 1.5 - 2 gr. range. That seems to work for me.

This is very true the cases also vary widely and not lot to lot but within the box.

[Outpost75]

I visually inspect only.

If the base is good, the fill out is good and there are no obvious casting flaws the bullet gets shot.

Any defects to visual inspection the cull bullet goes back into the pot. Simple. I don't weigh bullets even for matches. I am fussy about visual inspection and my loads shoot well.

It is more important to weigh, uniform flash holes and primer pockets, trim and sort cases into like lots, and put the extra effort into brass prep than it is to weigh bullets.

Other things NOT to worry about until you are averaging 5-shot benched rifle groups of less than 2 inches at 200 yards or 12-shot handgun groups less than 2" at 25 yards are:

1. Crimp - important for revolver ammunition and in magazine rifles. Otherwise don't worry about it.

2. Weighing powder to less than 1 percent of the total charge weight doesn't matter. A good powder measure used consistently is fine.

3. Bullets out of round or mold halves offset up to .001" don't matter. They will shoot 1 MOA in a rifle or 2 inches at 50 yards from a good match pistol if everything else is right.

4. Barrel roughness -- salt & pepper barrels shoot cast very well if the bullet "fits", is well lubricated and the muzzle crown is good and bore and groove dimensions uniform. A little choke towards the muzzle is OK. Polishing or lapping only makes cleaning easier afterwards.

5. Variation in muzzle velocity has no correlation with group size in any reasonable load until you get beyond 300 metres in a rifle or beyond 50 yards in a handgun, where the velocity variation becomes a greater vector component in the vertical dispersion.

Working up loads over a chronograph is a distraction. Shoot TEN-shot groups on paper. If the group is circular normal with a dense center, it is a good load. Measure velocity ONLY after you have found the sweet spot, so that you can establish velocity with your next can of powder of different lot than the one used.

Shooters waste hours in mental masturbation worrying about useless things. Practicing good bench technique, learning to read wind and mirage and following through the shot in a consistent trigger pull with proper sight alignment are more important!

K.I.S.S. principle!

[MikeBitzenburger]

What sort of personal standards do you set for the bullets you produce?

1 to 1.5 inch groups at 100, if the other busy work processes do not contribute to that, I do not do it. I agree with Outpost75. A lot of guys spend way too much time analyzing their bullets to the smallest degree while they ignore and neglect the things that do matter. I simply find it amusing when I see a fella who will spend hours and hours making charts and graphs with his bullets made from the wrong alloy. Meanwhile he is too lazy or ignorant to choose the right alloy for the task at hand and trim and properly prep his brass.

[Lloyd Smale]

plinking, hunting, target all get the same. A visual inspection and if they look good I can about bet they will shoot the same. Havent weight separated cast bullets for handguns in 20 years. Ive shot a pile of critters and have a pretty good collection of trophys that all came from visualy inspected bullets. Only time I might be talked into separating by weight is if I was in a long range rifle competition (over a 100 yards).

[44man]

Once casting is done right, nothing is needed. I do not weigh boolits anymore. Tried it with no better results but I might with a .22 and if you say a .44 boolit needs to be within 1/2 gr, are you nuts?
When you measure groups to .001" you will not see anything.

[Land Owner]

I am currently fixated on an aluminum Lee 2 cav 22 Bator mould, which has just come into registration at 785* melt temp and hot mould producing better than 95% accepted casts with 48/48/4% - Pb/WW/Sn. I visually inspect for complete bases and fully formed lube grooves and nose. Bullets are currently weighed to within +/- 0.3 grains (0.6 grains total) of the most frequent weight of the lot (i.e. lot avg. = 50.7 gr. Keepers = 50.4 gr. Through 51.0 gr.). I have time and it is fun.

Cases are weighed and measured. Case prep is penultimate to performance. When I start with the single shot 223’s, I will be shooting 100 yard groups. Alloys from different lots were NORMALIZED by remelting one ingot from lot A, with one ingot from lot B, with one ingot from lot C, etc. and recast in homogenized ingots. I had time and it was FUN! Originally, I was given 800#’s of pure lead, “scored” 400#’s of WW’s from Tire Folks essentially for free, and purchased the Tin at Flea Markets (now that is fun too!). I still have a lifetime’s supply of pure lead (400#’s). Oh Yeah! Maybe a life time’s supply of homogenized alloy too (385#’s left)!

On 45 ACP 185 gr. cast HP, I am having adifficult time with the last little bit of fill out of the forward nose around the HP pin. I think the pin is too cold. How to heat it consistently every time has not been determined. Perhaps increasing the percentage of tin, heat of the melt and heat of the mould will help. That’ll be a fix for after the Bator is satisfied. The ones cast without complete fillout of the nose are still loaded and shot for fun. Anything within 7 yards and it is not going to matter if the nose is perfect or not.

[dragon813gt]

I look at them and ask myself "is that a pretty bullet"? If the answer is yes it will be loaded and shot. I can't shoot much below .5 MOA and if I could I would be shooting jacketed.

[Tenbender]

I'm new to this bad habit. I do weigh . I do give them a good look. I just want to know where I'm at at this game. I have not figured why some are 2 gr. lighter than others. I have a pretty good handle on fill out. Hardness is a work in progress. Once I have a idea on my lead mix and hardness I think I can stop weighing and being so critical. What it all boil's down to , I really don't know what I'm doing. I have to take a step when I have firm footing.
If I wanted to shoot 1/2" MOA I would just use jacketed. I'm past that. I already know I can do that now I'm just going to have some fun.. Like a kid in a candy store !! :D

[scottfire1957]

Meh. If it doesn't look like total ****, if it's all there, it's good. So far, I just cast for handgun plinking.

[44man]

Best to relax when your boolits look good. I worked hours on very tight specs and did not shoot better then going with the flow.
Cast is as good as you can get anyway or I would buy stuff. Some really enjoy going to extremes and good for them, But I have gotten to be a lazy old cuss. I can stare at a container full of brass for weeks before I decide to even touch them. I turn the TV on instead! Thinking about doing anything makes me tired! Bad enough the grass is growing. Weighing boolits is like cutting the lawn with scissors.

[dragon813gt]

Weighing boolits is like cutting the lawn with scissors.

That's a great analogy. I weigh a few w/ a new mold to see what weight they actually drop at. And in the past I've weighed a batch or two to see how consistent I am. 90% w/ in +-.2 grains is more than fine for my needs. That may change when I start casting w/ the 22cal molds I have.

[JeffG]

On 9mm 356-120-TC bullets, as soon as they start looking good coming out of the 6 cavity mold, after 1-2 drops, they are in the bin for use. The 452-255-RF, a visually inspect them then weigh them +/- 1 grain then in the bin to shoot. Rifle bullets like 326471 or 314299 get a close visual inspection and need to look perfect, then are weight sorted to +/- .5 grain. Reminds me, about time to cast more rifle bullets...:cbpour:

[MBTcustom]

Since I have gone to the trouble to educate myself on what each mold needs in order to drop bullets that look, measure, and weigh the same, I just shoot what I cast. I know they are all shooters.
The only time I get really uptight and start measuring every little thing is when I plan to subject the bullet to velocity, RPM, and accuracy requirements where the slightest bit of difference will cause groups to open up. That's very rare though. For the rest of what I shoot, my main consideration is simply getting good base fill out, and I do believe that a sharp base covers 90% of bullet accuracy.

Generally speaking, weighing bullets just for the sake of "culling the bad ones" is a waste of time.
However, I do find that using a scale to plot bell curves with the bullets to be a remarkably effective way to learn to pull it all together, find the best place each mold likes to run, and teach yourself to be a better caster by getting instant feedback as to your progress. Again, this is not to be confused with weight sorting cast bullets to find culls. If you find culls with a scale, the obvious answer is not to throw away the culls and keep doing what you are doing! The obvious conclusion should be that you need to learn to cast better bullets.
Don't be the guy that puts a piece of tape over the check engine light!

[popper]

The rear end is the steering end and that is what matters. Good visual inspection only. I am getting ready to do some higher HV testing so I will inspect more carefully. Might even weigh a few.

[Shuz]

The boolits I use for CBA matches get visually inspected for obvious defects and then are sorted by weight. The lightest weighing boolits are used for "bbl fowling". The others are used for the targets.

My .44 handgun boolits are visually inspected for obvious defects, but then only a few sample boolits get weighed to determine the boolit weight with that alloy.

[Tom W.]

I am a Q.A. /Q.C. tech by trade. Different boolits get different attention. The ones I cast for hunting must look perfect to me, ,with sharp grooves and bases. The ones I shoot at the indoor range at paper need to have sharp bases and grooves, but slight wrinkles in the nose ain't gonna embarrass the paper targets at all. Major defects and blemishes will get the boolet recycled.

[fredj338]

I did a test shooting my weighed, perfect bullets against some that had wrinkles & not perfect bases, who knows what they weighed. The groups diff at 25yds was barely measureable in my match grade 1911.
So even being finicky with a visual inspection isn't yielding much handgun accuracy diff. Weighing them all, 1000s, uh nope. The few 100 LHP I make for hunting in my 44mag get weighed. It probably does make a bit larger diff out at 100yds, my personal limit for my handgun. If I can get a lead bullet to shoot in my 6.8, I might be weighing those too.

[mac45]

95% of my casting is for handguns.
If the base is good, everything is filled out and there are no wrinkles, we're good to go.
Am slowly figuring out casting for rifles.
I'm a bit pickier with the rifles, but I haven't started weighing every one yet.

[michiganmike]

95% of my casting is for handguns.
If the base is good, everything is filled out and there are no wrinkles, we're good to go.
Am slowly figuring out casting for rifles.
I'm a bit pickier with the rifles, but I haven't started weighing every one yet.

Most of my casting is for rifles. And I am semi-retired and have plenty of time on my hands. Finally, I like the idea of eliminating as many variables as I can. The biggest variable is me and how I am shooting on a given day.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

If it fits, it shoots.

Sometimes if it's got a little extra on the base I'll trim it with my base trimmer. Just a few twists. Mostly I do this with gas check bullets since they are more fussy about it.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The first step for me is visual inspection. The second step is weighing and grouping. Bullets that deviate markedly from the accepted weight group are rejected. I have been satisfied with the results both in handgun and rifle. LLS