PDA

View Full Version : HP Rifle bullets



atl5029
04-13-2015, 09:44 AM
Just wondering if anyone casts HP bullets for their centerfire rifles. I'd imagine a HP cast lead bullet would mushroom really quickly out of a rifle. If you have any pics, post em!

MBTcustom
04-13-2015, 12:04 PM
Follow the link in my signature line and please tell me why you would need more expansion?

HP rifle bullets have a very viable place in shooting simply because it may help the bullet fly better, and move the center of gravity rearward, but the only other reason to do it is to help a jacketed bullet overcome the strength of the jacket. With cast lead, a HP solves a problem that does not exist, and in so doing, may create a problem much worse (read hamburger on the hoof).

You just cannot apply jacketed bullet philosophy to cast bullet shooting. It may look good on paper, but it's completely unnecessary in reality.
That reality is that cast bullets are more effective than their jacketed counterparts cooking along at 1000FPS faster.

You don't need any ketchup with this dish, it can stand on it's own two feet. Put the salt shaker back and grab a fork.
Thank you.

quack1
04-13-2015, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=goodsteel;3214910]Follow the link in my signature line and please tell me why you would need more expansion?

Think small bullets and small, 5-8lb animals, like ground hogs. I hunt hogs a lot, and a HP 225462 or 225438 will cause more damage and a quicker death than a 225415. There isn't enough mass to get any expansion from a flat point before it exits. Granted, any bullet in the head or spine will kill the hog, but the HP will have a better chance of killing or at least anchoring them for another shot when you don't hit head or spine. Even though they are varmints, they still deserve a quick death.
I do agree completely with your posting that HP's can be too destructive on animals that are meant to be eaten.
I much prefer my home made flat point 22RF over hollow points when hunting squirrels.

fredj338
04-13-2015, 01:21 PM
Only my 45-70 at the moment, but when I get my 6.8 put together, I may try coated lead bullets then if that works, send the mold to Erik for 2cav shallow HP or cup point. I have some of these water dropped I want to try. I think this is a bit too much expansion for good penetration on heavier animlas like hogs. I would be really happy with 75cal.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/DSC_0041.jpg.html)

TheCelt
04-13-2015, 01:21 PM
I shoot a new model (55gr) 225415 with an aggressive HP by Eric. Also had him open the drive bands up to .226. I cast them out of a fairly hard copper enriched alloy and shoot them at about 1600 fps; they are EXPLOSIVE. For small varmints they are devastating and pretty danged accurate out to 150-175 yards.

For bigger varmints (yotes, armadillos) I use a 130gr HP (same alloy) in a .308 at 1800 fps, pretty much one-n-done.

waksupi
04-13-2015, 01:25 PM
The more game you shoot with cast bullets, the less "need" you see for hollow points.

Larry Gibson
04-13-2015, 07:06 PM
I don't think it's a matter of "need" but simply what you prefer. I prefer the quicker kill than a proper HP cast bullet of proper alloy gives vs the same bullet cast hard enough to not give any expansion. Along with those here who've already mentioned it the HP cast bullet is very useful for vermin and varmints and even smaller game. Some of us also note the usefulness of HP'd cast bullets when hunting bigger game such as pigs, deer and elk.

Quite to the contrary the more game I shot with cast bullets the more I found a "need" for the improved lethality a good HP'd cast bullet gives. As to hamburger; the worst bloodshot hamburgerized deer I ever shot with cast or jacketed was with a 457483 cast of COWWs that weighted 390 gr and was right at 1500 fps out of my 45-70 (and yes I had a chronograph back then). The shot at probably 75 - 90 yards made absolute hamburger out of both front quarters. I had shot a lot of deer with the 311041HP out of 30-30s, .308Ws and 30-06s before that and had experience about half the meat damage the jacketed counterparts gave. I expected, after reading all the glowing reports of slow moving big caliber bullets to be able to "eat up to the hole" or so I had been told...........In the case of that 45-70 with that 457383 I was able to at least eat up to the back rib..........

As an example I shot this little Texas buck at about 90 paces also with a 35-200-FN cast of COWWs + 2% tin and mixed 50/50 with lead. The bullets were AC'd, loaded and then HP'd to 3/16" deep with the Forster HP tool. Loaded in the 35 Remington I push them at 2150 fps out of my M91 Argie rebarreled with a 26" Shilen barrel. Accuracy is excellent to the 200 yard personal Max range for hunting. In the case of this buck the only hamburger meat was from what I chose to make. I literally was able to eat up to the hole. As the shot was through and through I was not able to recover the bullet but it obvious did it's job quite well. At the shot the deer buckled a bit and then staggered sideways 15 - 20 yards and fell quite dead. That is what a properly alloyed and properly HP'd cast bullet does just about every time on bigger game. Another thing I learned the more game I shot was that if you're going to kill the animal quickly then there will be some damage to the meat. Also having lost a deer (it went down, got right back up and dove into the brush. Searched 4 days and didn't find it until a week later when the buzzards did) trying to foolishly "not damage" any meat I gave up on that notion. Besides I like venison burger!

I've been using HP'd cast bullets of .22 - .375 caliber for use on varmints, small game and larger game since '68. Took a few years and tries to figure out most of the HP stems were too long and the usual recommended alloys were to hard for proper expansion in game animals or not hard enough for explosive effect on varmints.

Larry Gibson

Pictures are of;

35 Rem with 35-200-FB HP'd with Forster 1/8" tool
Buck with M91 Argie 35 Remington
Inside of entry side.
Entry
Inside of exit
Exit

136839136838136835136836136834136837

Larry Gibson
04-13-2015, 07:10 PM
Here's some 7.62x54R loaded with the Lyman 314299 cast of same alloy as mentioned above. Middle has been HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool. Now which do you think will kill quicker, the RN or that HP?

Larry Gibson

136845

white eagle
04-13-2015, 07:17 PM
I to have become to like to use hps for hunting
taking Larry's advice on the Forester hp tool and depth
I make my 35 cal's in similar fashion (358 win)
I use hp's in 30,35,and 45 cal's

longbow
04-13-2015, 07:22 PM
While I haven't used mine on critters yet, I have the Mihec 316410 130 gr. HP that shoots very well from my .303's. It certainly makes a mess of a milk jug full of water! The deep HP literally explodes on contact with only fragments left over and a few barely making it through the first water jug and into the second.

These were air cooled range scrap so not a proper alloy to mushroom well. My intention was to use them to blow stuff up and that they did well. I have been intending to try out the shallow HP with a more malleable alloy to check expansion but have not got there yet.

The deep HP and brittle alloy are certainly not for game animals you want to eat but like quakc1 says, they would be excellent varmint boolits.

Check out the thread on the Ness Safety Bullet. Interesting reading (there are links to old articles) and information. Again no recovered expanded boolits as they have a cavernous HP and are cast of brittle alloy to ensure fragmentation.

So, no photos and no experience on game animals but mine give me good accuracy and are lethal on milk jugs! There is a definite fun factor there.

Longbow

Djones
04-14-2015, 06:16 PM
NOE copy of the Lyman 358318 with a cup hp. Recovered from a whitetail doe shot at 230 yards with a short neck 358 win.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg.html)

I think two holes are better than one.

fredj338
04-14-2015, 06:34 PM
I really like a cup point for higher vel impacts.

MT Chambers
04-14-2015, 06:38 PM
For hollowpoint cast bullets to work best, you should match alloy to velocity, watching that alloy is not brittle. I would use a cast bullet HP over a small caliber RN everytime.

Wolfer
04-14-2015, 07:18 PM
I too have had good results with HPs. Mostly 30 cal, 311041 with a 1/4" deep HP by Eric. Alloy is about 50/50 or a little softer with a scooch of tin. Velocity on all calibers is about 1800 fps.

I have been very pleased with terminal performance without the damage caused by most full power jacketed loads.

Like Larry I'm more concerned with losing a deer than I am about losing a couple pounds of meat.