C.E. Harris' Red Dot loads

[bruce drake]

I've found good success using Red Dot shotgun powder over any 150-180 lead bullet in multiple military calibers. I shoot 30-06 / 303B/ 7.62x54R/ 7.62NATO/ 7.7 JAP/ 8mm Mauser and I never have a problem with having enough velocity to ring the bell at 100 yards with authority and accuracy.

I'd advocate anyone to google search for any articles written by C.E. Harris. He used to write for the NRA as well as several other Gun Rags in the past.

Bruce

[KCSO]

My mid range Krag load is 12.5 of Red Dot and a 185 r/n bullet. I have used this load for a long time ant have always had good results. I have on occassion beaten the AR shooters and they don't say anything about the old man and his FUNNY gun.

[Ed Barrett]

As an accurate paper punching you can't beat the Harris load or "the load" as many call it.

[Mel-4857]

The Harris Load can be found in the Hand loader's Digest Twelth Edition published in the Early 90's. pages 84 to 86. Mel

[Bret4207]

http://yarchive.net/gun/index.html

Here's a bunch of Ed Harris's writtings.

[David R]

HEY! Thanks! Lots of reading. I bookmarked that one.

David :lovebooli

[Mel-4857]

Loaded Some 7.5 Swiss with Mr. Harris's 13gr of Red Dot and the 311440 from the Group Buy. It fills the case fairly full because the flakes are big.The load is very mild . Shot some groups at 100yds with my 1911 carbine. Several went 1.5'' but had one really good group 7/8"between the farthest centers. This rifle has a 4x Scope. The velocity is fairly low and bullet time in the barrel high so consistent hold and follow through is essential. I've spoiled more than 1 group by getting excited and gripping the gun tighter and causing a shot to go astray. But thats the challenge and the fun. Mel

[Turkeyfeather]

Hey Shooters, I can't say enough about this crazy mixture. I have shot the universal charge with several cast bullet loads and have had great success almost every time. My last one was a 7-30 Waters in a 14" TC Contender. A nice Lee 135 gr RN over 10 grains of Red Dot and walla! Shoots with good accuracy, light recoil, and very modest cost. I buy bulk Red Dot or Promo for trap shooting and I always have some left for cast bullet rifle loads. I have found that you can use between 8.5 and 12 grains in a big variety of cartridges in 7mm cal and larger and have fun. Fine recipe.

[Quantrill]

One of the earlier Lyman Cast Bullet books lists both Red Dot and 700X with loads that are very close. I chose the 700X (since that is what I had) and have had good success with 30/30 and 30/06. Quantrill

[mike in co]

now here is a thought...
promo is suppose to be very similar to redot......but cheaper, and designed for club shotgun shooting..as in cheap reloads.

now if we could put together a bulk buy of this powder and pick up at the cast boolit shoot in may....that would be coolllllll.

bruce....any idea if the local hardware store would consider this ??

[felix]

Best to buy from a distributor in 100+ pound quantities. Powder Valley comes to mind. Have the hardware guy pick up the phone, and everyone contribute a portion of bucks of what is required for delivery to the shoot. Users bring their own canisters. Use paper sacks for content measurements at a local grocery store so they could dial in the cost per pound, and mock the charge to be made based upon the contents of the sack. ... felix

[David R]

I bought 8 lbs of Promo and as far as I can tell it performs the same.

$80.00 for 8 Lbs.

David

[matm0702]

If anyone would like a copy of this article just E-mail me at matm1225 and I will send it to you. Would post it but it's a big file. Put Red dot in the subject line.

Mike

[matm0702]

I have a copy of this article on file. I anyone would like a copy just e-mail me at matm1225@earthlinknet with Ed Harris in the subject line.

Mike

[Rod B]

Thanks Mike, email sent. BTW should be a . after earthlink.:-D


Rod.[smilie=s:

[NVcurmudgeon]

In an earlier Handloader's Digest than the one in which Mr. Harris wrote up "The Load" of 13 gr. Red Dot, he advocated 16.0 gr. of 2400 in most milsurps with cast boolits heavy for the caliber. I haven't found anything better than this load with Lyman 314299 in .30/40 Krag, .30/06 Springfield, 7.65 X 53 Argentine Mauser 1891, and .303 British No. 4 Lee Enfield. One boolit, one load, and several G&H dies.

[Bob S]

I have been using 2400 in my .30 cal cast loads since the mid 60's, and the accuracy has always been reliable. The "base" load is 15 grains, but I will vary the powder charge for individual rifles up to 20 grains in 1/2 grain increments to get the load to zero at 100 and 200 yards with the crudely-adjustable 03A3 issue sights. Red Dot does indeed "bulk up" better in the case, but in every case where I have tried it in .30 cal, I have gotten unacceptable vertical stringing at 100 yards. I recently bought some Blue Dot, which has about the same mass density as the Red Dot, but it has a burn rate close to 2400 (it's bit faster). Hopefully the increased loading density (as compared to 2400), combined with the slower burn rate (as compared with Red Dot) may give some decent results. Stay tuned.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[David R]

I use the red dot load in 2 rifles. My 1917 enfield and 7.65. I get no verticle stringing and best groups with this stuff. I shoot 200 yards with the enfield and have no sign of verticle stringing. I crony'ed them. Es is pretty low.

12 grains behind the group buy C314 155 gives me 1550 in the 7.65

13.5 behind the group buiy 311407 gives me just over 1600 fps and about 3" at 100 yards. This in not spactacular, but a great shooting load for my Enfield. Last week I shot silly wet. They had just painted the pigs (50 yards) I shot them all 2x and when they stood them back up, all center hits. Looked pretty darn good to me.

I also like it because a double charge will over flow an 'o6 case.

I bought an 8 lb jug of Promo which is supposed to be the same burning speed by weight as red dot. Lots of Cheap shooting for me.

[straightshooter1]

I was really thrilled when I found out about the 13 grains of Red Dot. Shot "pretty good" is all my Springfields, my 1917 Enfield, and several others. Then someone, I think it was here, said Harris later wrote that 16 grains of 2400 worked better. I tried that load and found it to be more accurate with both cast boolits and reduced loads with jacketed bullets than the Red Dot.

Neither are loads I would choose for shooting a match, but are reliable loads to start with if you don't have your own pet load worked up for a particular rifle. I still like RX7, IMR 4198 and H4198 and AA5744 for really accurate loads.

However, I never had the opportunity to try the Red Dot or 2400 Loads at more than 100 yards and might feel differently about their accuracy potential in match shooting if I had.

Bob

[ebner glocken]

With the red dot and 2400 loads are you using any filler? I'm shooting 30/06, 7.62x54, 303B, 308, 7x57, 8x57......a few others but these are the ones I would be willing to try it in.

[straightshooter1]

Ebner Glocken:

I've never used any filler with these loads and, IIRC, the Harris article says either none is needed or not to use any. Certainly with the Red Dot, which takes up a lot of space in the case, there would be no reason to use any filler anyway.

I load those same cartridges-I think you would be overloading using the Red Dot Load in the 7X57. I am at work so can't look up the loads for 2400. The rest are cartridges I have used these loads in without any problem.

IIRC again, the Harris article was refering to his success w/the 308 he was shooting in High Power-how he could practice w/Red Dot and the 173 grain GI Match bullets, sight settings were the same at 200 for Red Dot as at 600 for his Martch loads (or similar anyway).

Again, I am at work so don't have his article, but, for sure, either 13 grains of Red Dot or 16 grains of 2400 without filler in all your cartridges you listed EXCEPT the 7X57 are Okay.

Bob

[shredder]

I use lots of his loads and, as recommended, never use fillers.

[alamogunr]

Funny how these threads get resurrected. Not that I mind. I was due to revue this one.

[uscra112]

Taking this to another plane, I've started using a load of 7.5 grains Red Dot and a 50 grain HP J-wart in a .223 carbine, 16.5 inch barrel. Zeros at 80 yards exactly the same scope setting as my full-house 55 grain coyote load at 150. Velocity is 2100 fps, about like a .22 magnum rimfire, with about the same noise level. Accuracy at 50 is just over 1 MOA, and it has already accounted for an early garden-raider (woodchuck) here in the farm. Viva Red Dot! Just wish I had more of it.

[troutman]

Hello fellow entheuseist sp? I am new to metalic loading and found this forum looking for loadings for my recently acquired Mosin and 8mm Mauser. This Red Dot load gets me revved up because I have been loading RD for skeet and clays for 30 years off and on. Did I really say that 30 years? Makes me sound old.
I need to learn more about accurizing and my next step is cleaning the bores and "slugging a barrell" so get I the right size boolit for the different rifles. Awsome site and sorry for the poor spelling.

[blixen]

I've had great luck with Red Dot in my Mausers and 30-30s. Just be careful of double loads!

[Shiloh]

Can also be found in the Military Rifle Stickies.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Shiloh

[L Ross]

Hello troutman, welcome to the site. If you have some Red Dot you are good to go. Clean those bores well with a solvent designed to remove copper jacket fouling. Then as a short cut load 13 gr of Red Dot under the fattest bullet that will chamber. If you can get an air cooled clip on ww, gas checked, and lubed with any of the good lubes frequently praised on this site, in .314" 30 cal. between 150 gr to 220 gr you'll have the Russian covered and a .324"-325" in the same weight range should work in the 8m/m. I'm pretty sure you'll get useable accuracy and no leading.

Duke

[Ed in North Texas]

Taking this to another plane, I've started using a load of 7.5 grains Red Dot and a 50 grain HP J-wart in a .223 carbine, 16.5 inch barrel. Zeros at 80 yards exactly the same scope setting as my full-house 55 grain coyote load at 150. Velocity is 2100 fps, about like a .22 magnum rimfire, with about the same noise level. Accuracy at 50 is just over 1 MOA, and it has already accounted for an early garden-raider (woodchuck) here in the farm. Viva Red Dot! Just wish I had more of it.

I'm sure you know that if you have Promo, or American Select, you have powders which are close clones by weighed charge. Thought I'd mention it just in case you have as many "senior moments" as I've had the past few years.

[nanuk]

I load those same cartridges-I think you would be overloading using the Red Dot Load in the 7X57. I am at work so can't look up the loads for 2400.

Again, I am at work so don't have his article, but, for sure, either 13 grains of Red Dot or 16 grains of 2400 without filler in all your cartridges you listed EXCEPT the 7X57 are Okay.

Bob

Bob, Lyman CB Manual #3 lists a 14gr Max Red Dot load for 287448GC 113gr boolit. 12gr for the 287346GC 135gr and 11.5gr for the 287308GC 162gr.

so it would appear RD is appropriate in the 7x57, using appropriate load data for the different weights. "The Load" would seem safe in the 7x57 for certain weights.

[Three44s]

I don't know how it would affect load charges and accuracy in the above loadings but I have used some RD in revolver and lead, slugs, shot loads and round balls ........ and I found red dot cleaned up very well when I deburred the insides of the flash holes.

It was the powder that lead me to do all my metallic brass universally with this treatment.


Best regards

Three 44s

[helice]

Mr. Harris' Red Dot Load works very well in the 444 Marlin. I've used it with very light 170 grain to 280 grain LFNs. It is a fun load in the big bores.

[xacex]

I tried "the load", but with a light 311410 H/P from the Mihec group buy in a 54r. Worked great, and was a pleasure to shoot! I think it may even be cheaper than the military surplus ammo out there. And to think I was going to sell that old 91/59 because it sat in the safe getting dusty. I need more cases now! Up to about 160 re-loadable cases in total. Anyone want to trade for some other types of cases? 303, 6.5 swede, 308?

[calgunner]

Guys, I agree with what straightshooter1 said about the use of fillers, not only with Red Dot, but with any fast burning shotgun/pistol powders. Larry Gibson has a sticky in the "CB Loads, Your Favorite Cartridge" section of the forum that he explains this better than myself.