Hard cast bullets and hunting

[Silver Fox]

I know this is a real noob question, but are hard cast bullets suitable for hunting deer. I order mine rather than cast my own and they are a 96-2-2 alloy. Would they be too hard to consider for hunting?

[jonp]

Wouldn't that be 11-12BHN? What are you hunting with?

[Silver Fox]

I'm really not sure about BHN. I'm just learning this stuff and up until now have only thought about paper punching loads. They are from a Lyman 314299 mold and I load them in .303 British and 7.62x54r.

[jcren]

The alloy itself is not hard, but was it water quenched? With a 30 caliber you need some expansion unless using a near wadcutter profiles and I am not familiar with that mold. I am sure someone much smarter than me can guide you further , there are many masters on here!

[Silver Fox]

Sorry I was wrong. Its a 2-6-92 alloy. The maker says its between 14-15 BHN.

[Blackwater]

We tend to forget that much of the game shot by those old African hunters back in the early 20th century was shot with FMJ military ball ammo because that was often all they could GET. FMJ's have been panned for so long and to such a degree that many now think they're no worse than a mosquito bite, but they're wrong. Expanding bullets DO most definitely kill quicker, and often a LOT quicker, but FMJ's do a lot more than most folks tend to give them credit for these days, especially if they're in a substantial caliber. Put them in the right place, and game doesn't go far, and those old Africanners could shoot, generally.

Hard cast can be much the same, BUT, most these days have flat points, which is a BIG factor in creating more shock. If you don't believe this, go out in a pool and karate chop the water. Then lay your hand flat and hit the water with that. It's a simple and very illustrative lil' ol' experiment that gives us a big ol' clue about what flat noses do, and how significant they can be.

With handguns, too, we have to remember that they're the LEAST powerful guns around. Shotguns and rifles generally have much more "power." As such, having enough penetration to ensure reaching the vitals CAN be a big plus with them, and most lead FP bullets in any magnum caliber can be relied on to penetrate clean through any deer alive, making entrance AND exit wounds, so if the shot is just a tad off, they'll leak their power fluid faster.

With rifles, I like the fast-opening bullets for deer. I like to find them where they were standing at the shot, and these do very well. With handguns, I might play with some 200 gr. Horn. XTPHP's in my .44, but mostly I'll use FP cast, and not worry any at all about the load part of the equation. The main thing is to hit 'em right, just like ol' Jack O'Connor said so long ago, now. It's currently fashionable now to cast aspersions on him, but what he wrote was right, whether his other actions were or not. That's my take, based on my experience, at least.

[Shiloh]

I have found my boolits in the berm cast from that load. Many of these at the time, were spring shooting into a soggy berm. There are boolits that expanded a good bit, and those that bent in half. I would think a bent boolit that increases in size from being bent, would transfer energy quite well. Others may no for sure.

Shiloh

[Blammer]

I think your projectiles should do fine as long as you have good shot placement. I would recommend aiming for bone either coming or going on the deer.

[blikseme300]

We tend to forget that much of the game shot by those old African hunters back in the early 20th century was shot with FMJ military ball ammo because that was often all they could GET. FMJ's have been panned for so long and to such a degree that many now think they're no worse than a mosquito bite, but they're wrong. Expanding bullets DO most definitely kill quicker, and often a LOT quicker, but FMJ's do a lot more than most folks tend to give them credit for these days, especially if they're in a substantial caliber. Put them in the right place, and game doesn't go far, and those old Africanners could shoot, generally.

Hard cast can be much the same, BUT, most these days have flat points, which is a BIG factor in creating more shock. If you don't believe this, go out in a pool and karate chop the water. Then lay your hand flat and hit the water with that. It's a simple and very illustrative lil' ol' experiment that gives us a big ol' clue about what flat noses do, and how significant they can be.

With handguns, too, we have to remember that they're the LEAST powerful guns around. Shotguns and rifles generally have much more "power." As such, having enough penetration to ensure reaching the vitals CAN be a big plus with them, and most lead FP bullets in any magnum caliber can be relied on to penetrate clean through any deer alive, making entrance AND exit wounds, so if the shot is just a tad off, they'll leak their power fluid faster.

With rifles, I like the fast-opening bullets for deer. I like to find them where they were standing at the shot, and these do very well. With handguns, I might play with some 200 gr. Horn. XTPHP's in my .44, but mostly I'll use FP cast, and not worry any at all about the load part of the equation. The main thing is to hit 'em right, just like ol' Jack O'Connor said so long ago, now. It's currently fashionable now to cast aspersions on him, but what he wrote was right, whether his other actions were or not. That's my take, based on my experience, at least.

Being from that part of the world originally, I'm a Boer, I can confirm that milsurp rifles and ammunition was very common for most hunting. As a teen in the 70's used an old 8mm '98 Mauser with ammunition probably from WW2 for many a successful hunt. Iron sights as scopes was for girls and rich folks. I had not come across "other" ammunition until I got to the USA and found these to be popular and FMJ frowned upon for hunting.

The bottom line is "shot placement" as pointed out. The only time a near miss is effective is when it is a nuke, IMHO. I now use CB's exclusively for hunting and a generous meplat sure helps to drop game effectively.

[Silver Fox]

Thanks for the replies. I get great accuracy with aliant 2400. Would 1600 fps be a reasonable velocity for hunting or should I try to push them a little faster?

[waksupi]

With the .303, no reason not to push a gas checked bullet up to 2200fps or so.

[44man]

Hunting alloys hinge on a lot of factors. Caliber, boolit weight, velocity, energy at impact, etc.
I have found there is only one truth and that is what happens to the deer.

[Silver Fox]

I don't have any data giving velocities of 2200 fps. I only have Lyman 4th at the moment. Any recommendations on powder. 2400 definitely won't do it.