Can Lee's liquid Alox lube be used on non-tumble bulloet designs?

[woody2]

Can Lee’s liquid Alox bullet lube be used on their non-tumble lube bullets? I’d like to use it on their 356-125-2R, a 125 gr 9mm bullet which is designed for conventional stick lube forced into a single lube groove with a lubrisized. I’m wondering if simply applying it to the bullet will provide sufficient lubrication to prevent leading.

[A pause for the COZ]

Yes it can. Actually they were using Alox on Bullets long before LEE got the Idea to put smaller grooves on bullets.
Tumble away any bullet you want.

[zuke]

No rule's saying it can't be used. Go ahead and try it

[Handloader109]

It will, did so on that bullet for me. I really dislike the odor and smoke since I shoot at indoor range most of the time, so I don't use Alox for my handgun bullets. But it works fine

[Shiloh]

Definitely!!

I do it a lot. Heere is some advice though, go light. The lube that migrates into the lube grooves does no good. Only the lube that touches the barrel actually lubricates. Go lightly. I have never used alox on rifle boolits. Just pistol boolits and never had an issue other than driving too fast in a .357.
That may have been an issue with any un checked boolits.

Shiloh

[GhostHawk]

Perfect candidate for Bens Liquid Lube IMO.

And yes I shoot it on regular lube groove bullets.
I also use it as a sealer on sticky lubes in regular lube groove bullets.

Works fine either way.

[gloob]

I use it on non TL handgun and rifle bullets, and it works fine, even if it's a light coat. I have also used a homemade mix of LLA with wax that pretty much completely fills non TL lube grooves, applied by tumbling + heat. It shrinks back only a bit over time.


I really dislike the odor and smoke I hear this all the time, but I have never noticed it.

Some of my commercial cast reloads are pretty smoky, some of the same brand are not smoky, at all. Same as my LLA pills. I think it depends on how much freebore/blowby occurs in the gun; ALL my cast reloads are smokey out of revolvers, for instance. And my 10mm cast loads out of 40SW cases are also pretty heavy on the smoke (fired out of a 10mm chamber). With most of my locked breech guns, I can shoot either one, and I would be hard pressed to tell the difference from factory jacketed. But overall, I believe my LLA reloads are the same or even less smoky than commercial blue lube, if anything.

[woody2]

Thanks for all the replies. That's what I was hoping to hear.

[1johnlb]

As said, go lite, the more you use the more it smokes.

[Shiloh]

As said, go lite, the more you use the more it smokes.

And it never really dries. Put it on to thick, and in humid weather you have a gummy mess.

Shiloh

[Green Frog]

When it first became available, I used it on the standard Lyman 405 gr FN bullet for 45-70. With smokeless powder (2400 IIRC) it worked fine, but was more effort than using a lubri-sizer for the small batches I was doing at any given time. I have to admit I never tried this with BP, but doubt it would work... not enough moistening of the fouling.

Froggie

[sparky45]

I used it yesterday on these:
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/BLL_zps0ieam6ie.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/BLL_zps0ieam6ie.jpg.html)
Lee TC 230gr 45's after 2 coats.

[44man]

Sure, you can use it but Alox is junk in my book, in any form. I still say it burns in the bore. Smoke means burning. Why would you burn boolit lube?
The bottle in the Lee size die kit is JUNK and I wish they would leave it out and reduce the price of the dies. I have given away every bottle and might have made more enemies then I care for.

[Budzilla 19]

Woody2, you should be good with using Alox all by itself, but, use your Alox and One-Step wax to make BLL, then tumble lube just about any bullet with it!!! Crazy simple to make and use, why fool with straight alox?? Dries clean and clear!! And one batch should last the normal shooter a lifetime!! Just my .02 cents!

[Bullwolf]

I tumble lube many non TL boolit designs.

Here's 45-45-10 tumble lube, applied on Lee 358-105 grain SWC's in 9mm.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91449&d=1403146119&thumb=1

I also tumble lube the Lee 358-158-RF using 45-45-10.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135921&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1423625283

I've had good results simply tumble lubing the Lyman 356311 as well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135922&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1403162440

Recluse's 45-45-10 tumble lube mix is:

45% Lee Liquid Alox
45% Johnson's Paste Wax
10% Mineral Spirits

You can read about it, in the sticky link below.

Tumble Lubing Made Easy and Mess Free (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free)

I've used a fair amount of plain old Lee Liquid Alox as well with no problems, but I prefer the 45-45-10 mix. It's easier not to over apply 45-45-10. It's also less sticky, and dries faster than straight LLA. When I use straight LLA now, I like to dilute it a little with mineral spirits.

Ben's Liquid Lube (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube)

BLL - or Ben's Liquid [tumble]Lube is becoming quite popular, and rightfully so. It's startlingly easy to make and to use. Just mix 60% Lee Liquid Alox, and 40% Johnson's one step floor wax together to make this new fast drying and non sticky tumble lube.






- Bullwolf

[gloob]

I have had great results with Recluse. But lately, I have been mixing LLA with Beeswax and cooking off all the solvent. It's completely solid at room temp. I break some chips over the bullets and melt it with a heat gun. Then tumble over heat in a cake pan. It's dry and ready to load as soon as the bullets are cool. It also goes on much thicker, and it will fill lube grooves pretty well with one coat.

I must have TL'd somewhere between 3k and 5k bullets, and I'm still on my first "free" bottle of LLA that came with a sizer kit. I have two Lee sizers. I might have to actually buy lube come 2020. But I have a feeling I'll have a new rifle caliber by then.

[BrentD]

Sure, you can use it but Alox is junk in my book, in any form. I still say it burns in the bore. Smoke means burning. Why would you burn boolit lube?
The bottle in the Lee size die kit is JUNK and I wish they would leave it out and reduce the price of the dies. I have given away every bottle and might have made more enemies then I care for.


You are the only person that I have heard say this. I've used it in my 38-55, 38-40, and .30-40. Either straight LLA or, recently, the 60% LLA/40% JLFW. Gotta say it works exactly as advertised w/o a speck of lead anywhere. I put my lubrisizer in mothballs and I don't anticipate taking it out.

The stuff smells like Crayola Crayons to me, and, no, it does not smoke.

[gloob]

+1. There are lots of factors to consider when loading and shooting cast bullets. And lots of bad information. When someone experiences and corrects an issue, they can easily jump to the wrong conclusions as to the cause.

Lots of myths
1. Alox is smoky. - Can be for you, but it's not because Alox is inherently smoky. All lubes smoke at the temperatures of high pressure burning powder. How much lube and how well your ammo seals the bore are key factors in how much smoke you will have.
2. 9mm needs a hard alloy. - Try a bigger expander, and you might find that harder bullets were only compensating for a different problem.
3. You need to slug your bore and size to 1 mil over groove diameter. - Actually, as long as you are over groove diameter, your bullets can be accurate and foul-free. Slugging a bore can be useful, esp if you want to shoot the same bullets in multiple guns. But using the largest bullet that fits your chamber is a valid strategy that doesn't require slugging the bore. If that doesn't get you in the right ballpark, slugging the bore can't do anything but confirm you have a problem that can't be solved with a sizer.

[woody2]

Lots of great info here. Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to post such detailed information. Looks like I have a bit of experimenting to do, and your help will go a long way to getting me on the right path.

[goofyoldfart]

hey 44man, you get any more LLA you can send it to me and I'll pay shipping.;-) I make BLL (Bens) and it works beautiful for me. Waste not want not.:D God Bless to you and yours.
Goofy aka Godfrey

[44man]

You are the only person that I have heard say this. I've used it in my 38-55, 38-40, and .30-40. Either straight LLA or, recently, the 60% LLA/40% JLFW. Gotta say it works exactly as advertised w/o a speck of lead anywhere. I put my lubrisizer in mothballs and I don't anticipate taking it out.

The stuff smells like Crayola Crayons to me, and, no, it does not smoke.
It might work in light loads but my loads are for deer and long range. I get leading with any Alox mix. But more important to me is accuracy and I have tested about every lube you can make or buy. The difference in groups is something to see.
It was the same with BPCR lubes, just a change would give you a good shotgun.
There is more to lube then leading, it must let a boolit be held by brass until good ignition and last the length of the barrel. It is a barrier between lead and steel. It should keep fouling soft enough to be shot out with each shot. It must not blow out the gap.
It is not a hydraulic seal or to make a boolit slippery. Lead is actually a good lube, trouble is it rubs off and sticks to itself to build up.
I still say Alox has a low flash point, burns and adds to powder fouling instead of keeping it soft.
It is tempered with waxes. 50-50 works a lot better then straight Alox.
I don't know who scraped it from under fenders first to shoot it in guns???
If you ever used SPG in a long barreled BPCR you would see the last 10" would foul so hard a patch had to be soaking wet to push through. Why create those conditions?
A good lube should improve accuracy and leave a grease ring on the muzzle.

[44man]

hey 44man, you get any more LLA you can send it to me and I'll pay shipping.;-) I make BLL (Bens) and it works beautiful for me. Waste not want not.:D God Bless to you and yours.
Goofy aka Godfrey
I have only one bottle left, gave away well over a dozen. I had some guy wanting me to cast, lube and load his .38's. He was loving it but I got sick of the work with Felix lube so I tumbled the last batch, he has never been back! I use it to keep those types away. :kidding:

[robg]

I started out using a lube sizer now I just lla tumble lube all my pistol & rifle boolits works fine

[fcvan]

First of all, when I first got started, Dad had a SAECO lubrisizer. When I went out on my own, I pan lubed, and later got a Lyman 450. I tried the Lee Liquid Alox when it came out and wasn't very impressed. After all, I had a Lyman 450. Then I started powder coating and buying Lee push through dies for every caliber. Of course, each push through die came with Liquid Alox.

Recently, I have gotten a few more friends into reloading but more importantly, casting their own. I decided to try 50/50 Alox/mineral spirits. While I was not impressed with Alox back when, it will do in a pinch. I had a bunch of Lee 312-155 2R boolits cast for 300 blk, sized and gas checks applied, to show a friend tumble lubing. We lubed with 2 light coats, loaded over 4227, and took them to the range. They shot great, did not smoke as much as I expected, and the bore looked clean as a whistle.

The last test loads (we were working up in half grain increments) chronographed at over 2100 fps, about 150 fps faster than the same loads using ESPC Harbor Freight Flat Black. I seem to recall the amount of smoke from either ESPC or 50/50 was about the same. I prefer ESPC or ASBBDT over 50/50 Alox/Mineral spirits but am not opposed to using the Alox in a pinch. I just don't like the amount of dry time or the slight stickiness even after a fair amount of dry time.

[MaryB]

No complaints with the lee lube, did 1k 45acp boolits for my gun dealer(he supplied the lead) and he loved them, had no leading. I use it for 9mm all the time too. Haven't used it for rifle yet, been powder coating those