Is there any news on the Korean rifles?

[Rooster]

Just wondering if the M1's will ever be coming home.

[Bullwolf]

Just wondering if the M1's will ever be coming home.

I have not heard any updates about the M1's coming back or not. I'm pessimistic about our chances, but then again I'm also a glass is half empty kind of guy.

Here's a somewhat condensed version of the original story, for those who might have missed it.

http://neveryetmelted.com/2010/08/19/obama-administration-blocks-import-of-korean-surplus-garands-and-m1-carbines/

19 Aug 2010 Obama Administration Blocks Import of Korean Surplus Garands and M1 Carbines.

http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/Garand2.jpg

http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/M1Carbine.jpg

The Korea Times (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_71329.html) reports that the Obama administration is blocking the sale to US importers of tens of thousands of surplus M1 Garands and M1 carbines, avidly desired by American target shooters and collectors on grounds that they might find their way into the hands of terrorists (!).


The U.S. government opposed South Korea’s bid to sell hundreds of thousands of aging U.S. combat rifles to American gun collectors, a senior government official said Thursday.

The ministry announced the plan last September as part of efforts to boost its defense budget, saying the export of the M1 Garand and carbine rifles would start by the end of 2009.

The U.S. administration put the brakes on the plan, citing “problems” that could be caused by the importation of the rifles.

The problems the U.S. government cited were somewhat ambiguous, said an official at the Ministry of National Defense on condition of anonymity.

“The U.S. insisted that imports of the aging rifles could cause problems such as firearm accidents. It was also worried the weapons could be smuggled to terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions,” the official told The Korea Times.

The Seoul government sought to sell the outdated U.S guns back to the United States.

A total of 86,000 M1 rifles and another 22,000 carbines were to be sold, as the weapons have been mothballed for about five decades in military warehouses. The per-unit price of the M1 rifle is about $220 and the carbine is more than $140, according to the ministry.

M1s were made first in 1926 and used in World War II and the 1954-1975 Vietnam War. The carbines were first produced in 1941 and used during the 1950-1953 Korean War.





- Bullwolf

[tdoyka]

why not!!!? maybe when we get a real american president they will ship a real american gun.

[MaryB]

wonder if this could be challenged in court? Obama has no proof they are used in crime or being sold to terrorists unless he is selling them to ISIS!

[nicholst55]

wonder if this could be challenged in court? Obama has no proof they are used in crime or being sold to terrorists unless he is selling them to ISIS!

Holder probably has BATF selling them to Mexican drug cartels.

[Artful]

I think you missed this news of Obama and his pen at work from 2013

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/29/obama-announces-new-gun-control-measures-targets-military-surplus-imports/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/29/obama-announces-new-gun-control-measures-targets-military-surplus-imports/)



Administration announces new gun control measures, targets military surplus imports

Published August 29, 2013
The Obama administration unexpectedly announced two new gun control measures on Thursday, including one that would curb the import of military surplus weapons -- in a move that could anger collectors.

Vice President Biden announced the new measures Thursday morning. The new rules, announced while Washington was otherwise focused on the crisis in Syria, took the form of executive actions, which President Obama added to the list of 23 steps the White House already determined the president could take on his own.

The steps come after Congress declined to pass any gun control legislation earlier this year despite an aggressive White House push for action in the wake of the Newton, Conn., shooting massacre. With the political world focused on Mideast tensions and looming fiscal battles, the move signaled Obama's intent to show he hasn't lost sight of the issue.

The National Rifle Association, though, ripped the administration, saying its proposals would do little to reduce crime.
"The Obama administration has once again completely missed the mark when it comes to stopping violent crime," the NRA said in a statement.

One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities. The White House said the U.S. has approved 250,000 of those guns to be reimported since 2005; under the new policy, only museums and a few other entities like the government will be eligible to reimport military-grade firearms.

The Obama administration is also proposing a federal rule to stop those who would be ineligible to pass a background check from skirting the law by registering a gun to a corporation or trust. The new rule would require people associated with those entities, like beneficiaries and trustees, to undergo the same type of fingerprint-based background checks as individuals if they want to register guns.

But the NRA said that neither measure would reduce crime, since neither the re-importation of firearms nor the corporate gun registration is known to be a source of weapons for criminals.

"Requiring background checks for corporations and trusts does not keep firearms out of the hands of criminals. Prohibiting the re-importation of firearms into the U.S. that were manufactured 50 or more years ago does not keep firearms out of the hands of criminals. This administration should get serious about prosecuting violent criminals who misuse guns and stop focusing its efforts on law-abiding gun owners," the NRA said in a statement.

The types of surplus weapons that have been re-imported under this provision are all more than 50 years old, and fall under the definition of "curio" or "relic" firearms. They include M1 Garand rifles and several other models -- a list can be found here (http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-january-2009-june-2010.html). As such, it is safe to assume that few are used in crimes.

The event in the Roosevelt Room where Biden spoke also marked the ceremonial swearing-in for Todd Jones, whose confirmation to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives after six years of political wrangling to fill that position was another of Obama's post-Newtown priorities. A Senate deal to approve the president's pending nominations after Democrats threatened to change Senate rules cleared the way for Jones' confirmation last month.

Still out of reach for Obama were the steps that gun control advocates and the administration's own review say could most effectively combat gun violence in the U.S., like an assault weapons ban and fewer exceptions for background checks for individual sales. Only Congress can act on those fronts.

Although Obama and Biden have said the fight is not over, there is scant evidence that there is more support for gun control legislation than there was in April, when efforts died in the Senate amid staunch opposition from the National Rifle Association and most Republican senators.

"Sooner or later, we are going to get this right," Obama said that day in the White House Rose Garden, with the families of Newtown victims and former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords -- herself a victim of a gunman -- at his side. "The memories of these children demand it, and so do the American people," the president said at the time.

In the months following the Senate vote, Biden has claimed that a handful of lawmakers who opposed expanded background checks have told him privately they've changed their minds and want another chance. But Biden and White House officials have not named any of those lawmakers.

These days, Obama mentions gun control with far less regularity than when it appeared the Senate was poised to take action, although Obama did meet Tuesday with 18 city mayors to discuss ways to contain youth violence. And with immigration and pressing fiscal issues dominating Congress' agenda, the prospects for reviving gun legislation appear negligible. With Jones' confirmation at ATF, the White House has completed or made significant progress on all but one of the 23 executive actions Obama had previously ordered in January, the White House said. Still lingering is an effort to finalize regulations to require insurers to cover mental health at parity with medical benefits, although the White House said that it is committed to making that happen by the end of 2013.

The new rules for guns registered to corporations will follow the traditional regulatory process, with a 90-day comment period before ATF reviews suggestions and finalizes the rule. Last year, ATF received 39,000 requests to register guns to corporations and trusts.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

By the way most requests to register guns to corporations and trusts are for NFA items in area's where the Chief LEO won't sign off on Form 1 and Form 4's for individuals who legally have the right to own NFA items.
Interestingly I know of only two cases of registered NFA weapons used
in crimes.
I do believe there was a registered MAC11, owned by a police officer, that the officer used to murder a police informant.
That happened in Dayton, Ohio and resulted in the court case Searcy V. Dayton, which happens to be the only time a CLEO was every sued for signing a Form 4. The CLEO was found not negligent in his duty for signing the form. This is a good case to site if a CLEO refuses to sign because he's afraid of "personal liability".

And the other was Doctor Shou Chao Ho, an Ohio physician, in 1993. (in Ohio, just like the cop) killed a colleague with a, IIRC, suppressed M11 .380 (again, just like the cop).

The only other case I know of was from Las Vegas, as Vegas Developer (Ron Rutin) who was murdered and they found the murder weapon. An AWC intergrally suppressed 22 handgun was found by some divers in a lake outside Las Vegas. They were showing the Murder Weapon and engraved on the barrel, next to the frame was AWC's info.

His 5th wife had stolen the gun after they were married, 7 years before his murder. The pistol was his, (he reported it stolen and kept asking his wife if she had it) and he also owned a lot of other transferables.

I thought you guys might find this interesting. So the chance of any of the silencers, machineguns, etc that you hear the news media say is so rampant on the streets here in America or Mexico - are illegal.

[starmac]

That is the new I remember, and it will not change unless we put an American in the whitehouse.

[MaLar]

Who ids he calling a TERRORIST!??

[Artful]

http://al007italia.blogspot.com/2012/07/under-obama-administrations-definition.html


MONDAY, JULY 09, 2012Under the Obama Administration's Definition, Our Founding Fathers Were Terrorists
In a post (http://al007italia.blogspot.com/2012/07/obama-administration-continues-to-label.html) the other day on the violence against Pro-lifers that has cropped up recently, I mentioned the Homeland Security document (http://start.umd.edu/start/publications/research_briefs/LaFree_Bersani_HotSpotsOfUSTerrorism.pdf) that was released on 31 January 2012. In it the Department of Homeland Secuirity talked about who it saw as potential domestic terrorists. & while it starts with what I call the copout disclaimer to give the Obama administration plausable deniability, the document is clearly intended to give guidance as to who the Obama administration sees as threats to their agenda more than actual threats to the security of the United States. & to justify their going after those of us who don't agree with what they are doing. In fact it all but says so.
“This report is part of a series sponsored by the Human Factors/Behavioral Sciences Division, Science and Technology Directorate, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, in support of the Counter-IED Prevent/Deter program. The goal of this program is to sponsor research that will aid the intelligence and law enforcement communities in identifying potential terrorist threats and support policymakers in developing prevention efforts.” (emphasis mine)
So who do they see as potential terrorists?
Single issue groups! In the report they wrote “The most recent decade has been dominated by single issue attacks.” They went on to give examples of who they consider single issue groups. "Single Issue: groups or individuals that obsessively focus on very specific or narrowly-defined causes (e.g., anti-abortion, anti-Catholic, anti-nuclear, anti-Castro)."
Before I talk about the listing of anti-abortion & anti-Catholic in the single issue definition, I want to look at the other 2. Anti-nuclear as well as anti-Castro are included for what I call a smoke & mirrors move. They are meant to distract people by making it sound this is a balanced report looking at all potential terrorists & not singling out Pro-lifers & some other groups I will mention later as well.
As for anti-Catholic, to some extent that is smoke & mirrors as well. In this case to distract from the fact that the biggest anti-Catholic group out there is the Obama administration that is leading the attack on the religious liberties of Catholics, especially with the HHS mandate forcing virtually all Catholic organizations as well as individuals who own their own business & are opposed to artificial birth control & abortion to pay for insurance to cover them.
Of course, I did come up with one other possible definition of anti-Catholic. We need to remember that people in the Obama administration like Kathleen Sibelius (HHS), Tom Vilsack (agriculture & former Iowa governor) & VP Joe Biden all claim to be good Catholics. & let us not forget Nancy Pelosi who has taken it upon herself to define what the Catholic Church teaches & what makes a good Catholic. Toss into this mix groups like Catholics for a Free Choice & the Leadership Council of Women Religious. In short what faithful Catholics would call "Catholics in Name Only" & the Vatican as well as individual Bishops have said isn't authentic Catholic teaching or actions are probably the "Catholycs" HHS is really refering to. So by their definition, the Vatican, Bishops like Brustkewitz, Archbishop Naumann of Kansas City Kansas (for telling Sibelius no communion when she was governor) & even the USCCB (for reasons of opposition to the ObamaCare mandate) & Cardinal Timothy Dolan are terrorists. Additionally, any of us who publicly speak to uphold authentic Catholic teaching would also fit into their definition.
& any group, Catholic or not, that is Pro-life is definitely a source for terrorist activities by their very existance. Given that the Obama administration is so in the back pocket of Planned Parenthood as well as the rest of the abortion industry, it is clear that this is aimed at given the Obama administration the justification for silencing Pro-lifers as well as continuing to attack the religious liberty of Catholics & other Christians, especially if they are Pro-life instead of pro-Obama.
Brian Clowes, Director of Research for Human Life International was incensed with the report. He had this to say about it “They are cherry picking. They put in the anti-nukes as a sop when they’re really after the pro-lifers.” Clowes added “What’s amazing is that unions are not mentioned at all in the report, when they’ve likely been responsible for more terrorist acts than all the listed single issue group examples combined.” I've pointed this fact out myself in a few posts.
Other groups that come under attack include the following "Extreme Right-Wing" groups, those "that believe that one’s personal and/or national "way of life" is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent (for some the threat is from a specific ethnic, racial, or religious group), and believe in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in paramilitary preparations and training or survivalism. Groups may also be fiercelynationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation), anti-global, suspicious of centralized federal authority, reverent of individual liberty, and believe in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty."
So under this definition, anyone who is concerned that their rights are being attacked & are working to defend them is a potential terrorist. The opening part seems especially aimed at those who are strong supporters of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. That amendment was added to ensure people of the right to defend themselves against any attempt to take away their freedom. Remember, that dictators have usually taken away guns from individuals because they knew those guns could be used to fight for their rights.
Next we have groups that are "fiercely nationalistic". By showing what those groups are in opposition to, they make it clear that anyone who is a true patriot, not just extremists, is fiercely nationalist & thus a potential terrorist. In short, anyone who wants to defend the USA's sovereignty is a potential terrorist.
But what really makes it clear that they are going against anyone who would stand up for what the Constitution stands for is where it names those "suspicious of centralized federal authority" & those "reverent of individual liberty" as potential terrorists. & this is where our Founding Fathers come in.
Anyone who is familiar with the Revolutionary War period knows that our Founding Fathers were suspicious of too centralized a national government. They saw how dangerous an authoritarian government that denied them their basic rights could be. It could impose taxes or anything else, including taking away any & all liberites, including life & property as it wanted to. They wrote the Constitution to protect the rights of both the individual staes as well as those of the people. That is why the Constitution put strict limits on what the Federal government could do. & even after the Constitution was written many wanted stronger protections for those rights. That is why we have the "Bill of Rights".
What the Obama administration is doing is to ensure that it will have the justification to set up an authoritarian government & finish the work of shredding the Constitution. In short, we are on the verge of a dictatorship just like we saw in Pre-WW II Germany of Italy.
Like it or not, Obama wants to follow in their footsteps. & under laws passed over the past decade to go after who the government defines as domestic terrorists, he could very well do so. ObamaCare has already guarenteed that the IRS will be monitoring all we do when it goers into effect. Big brother has been created.
As more & more people are becoming aware of how our basic liberties are being assaulted, the chances of Obama staying in power decrease. Should he lose, what is to stop him from declaring martial law & arresting all those he sees as threats, pro 2nd Amendment people, Tea Party supporters & especially Pro-lifers? With the Democrats controlling the Senate, it wouldn't be Congress.
& if he wins, it is clear he will work to continue to erode our individual God given rights of "life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness".
As I look arround, I see the United Staes on the verge of destruction. Obama has made it clear that Catholics must do the modern equivalent of emperor worship found in the Roman empire. He demands that we must accept his efforts to promote abortion, homosexual marriage & everything else that goes contrary to what this nation was founded on. & not only accept it, but embrace it. If not, we could very well face persecution & even martyrdom. He has also made it clear that he wants total government control of our lives. The same control that men like Hitler, Stalin & Mussolini & many other dictators over the centuries attempted. It isn't just Catholics that are facing arrest, it is everyone who believes in what our nation actually stands for, those principles our Founding Fathers built this nation on.
As John Adams once explained “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” It is clear that Obama & his supporters want to undermine the moral underpinings of the Constitution to free them up to take away our rights. We would do well to heed what the one Catholic signer of the Declaration, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, said "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Our defense must start with prayer & repentance for the sins of the nation. But it must also include speaking the truth in love. We must call our nation back to God & the Judeo-Christian foundation it was built on.
I know some people think we have already gone over the edge & there is no turning back. Even so, we still have the responsibility & the duty to pray & speak up, no matter the cost. That is why the signers of the Declaration concluded with the following "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

They knew that they had to rely on God, not themselves. They also knew the cost. & they were willing to pay for it. Can the same be said of us?

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/07/23/march-2013-watchlisting-guidance/
the guide book

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/397626/why-obama-needs-pretend-taliban-arent-terrorists-andrew-c-mccarthy


Why Obama Needs to Pretend the Taliban Aren’t Terrorists

by ANDREW C. MCCARTHY January 31, 2015 4:00 AM The administration makes a desperate and indefensible claim. No doubt because of my background investigating, prosecuting, and studying terrorism, the cynical claim by White House spokesmen that the Taliban is not a terrorist organization has annoyed me even more than the Obama administration’s nonstop lying usually does. No surprise then that I could be found railing about it on The Kelly File Thursday night. In that spirit, ten thoughts for the weekend:

1. Under federal law, there are only three requirements for a group to qualify as a “foreign terrorist organization”: It has to be (a) foreign, (b) engaged in “terrorist activity” (bombings, assassinations, etc., carried out to intimidate people and change policy), and (c) a national-security threat to the United States. The law that covers this is Sec. 1189(a) of Title 8, U.S. Code, from the federal Immigration and Nationality Act. It’s here, and it’s just the first few lines — even a president who routinely ignores the laws he is sworn to execute faithfully should be able to make some time for it, maybe on the plane ride between the golf course and the Saudi palace.

2. Obviously, even if it were true, as posited by Messrs. Schultz and Earnest (speaking for President Obama), that the Taliban is concerned only with Afghanistan, not with the global jihad, that would be irrelevant. They easily fit the definition of a foreign terrorist organization.

3. Of course, it is not true that the Taliban is concerned only with Afghanistan. The administration’s risible claim to the contrary is part of its campaign to bleach the Islam out of radical Islam. Islamic supremacism, the ideology that fuels jihadist terror, is a global conquest ideology. Obama wants you to believe that there is just a dizzying array of small, disconnected, strange-sounding, indigenous “insurgent” groups that are not joined by any unifying ideology — the Afghan Taliban (not to be confused with the Pakistani Taliban), Hamas, Hezbollah, the Haqqani Network, Boko Haram, al-Nusra, Ansar al-Sharia, the sundry jihadist franchises that invoke al-Qaeda’s name (in the Arabian Peninsula, in the Islamic Maghreb, in the Indian subcontinent . . . ), and so on. You are not to see them as a united front against the West, but instead as animated by strictly parochial political and territorial disputes. The strategy, a disingenuous elevation of semantics over substance, is designed to minimize the global jihadist threat to the West that has intensified on Obama’s watch and has undeniable roots in a supremacist interpretation of Islam.

4. You need not take my word for it when it comes to the Taliban’s ideological connection to the global jihad. Instead, just look at what they do. What did the Taliban do when they ruled Afghanistan? They willfully allowed their territory to be used as a launch pad for attacks against the United States (the 1998 embassy bombings in eastern Africa, the 2000 bombing of the Cole, and the 9/11 atrocities). And after 9/11, when, by simply handing bin Laden & Co. over to the United States, they could have stayed in power and avoided an invasion of the Afghanistan they are said to be preoccupied with, what did they do? At enormous cost to themselves, they tried to shelter al-Qaeda. In the 14 years since, they have continued to abet the global jihadist campaign, and have reveled in making war against the United States — a war they now understandably think they will win.

5. The Taliban’s continued alliance with al-Qaeda’s global jihad is of a piece with Hamas’s self-proclaimed incorporation in the Muslim Brotherhood’s global ambitions, and with the forward-militia role Hezbollah plays for Iran, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini’s revolutionary state that exports its Shiite version of jihad. All of these actors perceive themselves as enmeshed in a civilizational struggle against the West. We can’t erase that by pretending there is no animating ideology, pretending that they can be pacified if we satisfy their local grievances.

6. This business of distinguishing “insurgents” from “terrorists” is nonsense. An insurgency is just a domestic uprising (in the sense that the insurgent is from the country in which he is rebelling). When insurgents use terrorist tactics they are domestic terrorists. It may make Obama feel better to say that his pal Bill Ayers was an “insurgent,” but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a terrorist.

7. The most disturbing facet of the “insurgent” canard is that Obama is buying the logic of such Islamic supremacists as the Muslim Brotherhood and Turkey’s president Recep Tayyip Erdogan. They claim that Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations (as American law designates them to be) but domestic political organizations that engage not in terrorism but in “resistance” — a righteous fight against “injustice” and “occupation” in their homelands.

8. Obama, of course, is not approving of the Taliban’s tactics and goals. But he wants you to see them as domestic insurgents because progressives believe insurgents should be negotiated with and brought into a political settlement — and to the extent insurgents go overboard in their aggression, progressives believe they should be prosecuted in the civilian justice system, not fought militarily like wartime enemies.

9. In the United States, Obama is operating in a political environment where the public — based on longstanding prudential American policy — believes we should not negotiate with terrorists because that encourages and legitimizes their savage methods. Similarly, the public strongly believes international terrorists are enemies who must be defeated, not defendants who must be indicted. Obama knows he is negotiating with, intends to settle with, and eventually will leave Afghanistan to the tender mercies of, the Taliban. Therefore, the administration is desperate that you not look at the Taliban as terrorists.

10. But they are terrorists.

[Handloader109]

Get a decent republican president and lobby the heck out of him to remove All of the executive orders that this clown wrote.

[matrixcs]

It would be great if the M1s were being repatriated. I sure would like one at a price I could afford.
I am afraid that by the time they come back we will all be listed as prohibited persons just because we like guns.
It appears the current administration is attempting to make that happen.

[bullet maker 57]

If we don't reimport them, there is a chance that they will be sold to some other country that will then resell them to terrorists. Got to think ahead, not in the moment.

[dakotashooter2]

yep ....We can take them back with the chance that a SMALL percentage will end up in terrorists hands or NOT take them back with the chance that a LARGE percentage of them will end up in terrorist hands...............

[lbaize3]

I sure would like an M1 carbine to play with.

Overall Obama's stupidity has been a blessing to American gun owners. Firearms and associated industries have enjoyed a boom period and the public interest in owning and shooting has skyrocketed.

Most of his efforts at gun control have bounced back to bite him in the rear end. I expect this one will, too.

[merlin101]

I'm surprised obozo and crew didn't buy them back and them dump them overboard in deep water.

[Rooster]

Gadzooks Merlin! Don't give the jugeared varmit any ideas.

[Hardcast416taylor]

There`s an old saying that is pretty appropiate to the fact of Obozo being in office and the re-importation of these rifles. "If you wish in one hand and c**p in the other hand, what are you most likely to wind up with"?Robert

[Blacksmith]

M1's are still available from the CMP and at the best prices you are likely to find for the condition.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

[lefty o]

obamma isnt worried about terrorists getting old worn out M1's from korea. he just doesnt want you to have them, because he is the terrorist/socialist, and you being armed undermines his agenda.

[jaystuw]

Get a decent republican president and lobby the heck out of him to remove All of the executive orders that this clown wrote.

Yeah Handloader, that would be nice. And while our new Republican President is removing all trace of that clown , could he change our foreign policy back to the way it was ? I kind of miss the collar and chain Israel had around our collective necks before Obama. I hope a decent republican president can get that reinstalled as soon as possible. I hate being in a country that actually acts in its own best interest and calls its own shots.

And would it be to much to ask to repeal health care reform, 3rd world medical treatment is good enough for common folk the world over, why not in America? I mean after all, they are just common folk.

How about one more thing to make America a better place; Can we have our new Republican President change or relax the tax code to further help the Americans that (lets face it) truly matter, The top 1% that owns and controls 90 percent of all personal wealth already. I personally would like to see our best and brightest get what they deserve, ALL personal wealth! That way we can go back to the cool olden days were I can be a peasant working the fields of my master and dreaming of a time (if I work very hard and well for my betters) When God rewards me for my toils, In heaven! Jay

[sparky45]

I was going to say "it must be something in the water you drink, Jay" that makes you think the way you do, but apparently you are about out of water. Maybe Moonbeam can get the multi-billion railroad to nowhere to bring you your water.

[jaystuw]

I was going to say "it must be something in the water you drink, Jay" that makes you think the way you do, but apparently you are about out of water. Maybe Moonbeam can get the multi-billion railroad to nowhere to bring you your water.

Its not the water I drink Sparky. Its the collective thoughts of the common man that I hear. You don't hear them now, but as America slides ever further into great disparity of wealth those thoughts will become more audible and hard to ignore. Jay

[Springfield]

I kinda like Israel being over there in the midst of the Muslim world. It gives all those Muslims someone to hate and fight and complain about. Without them they would have much more time to focus on US! And face it, you can tax the top 1% all you want, they will figure out some way to pass the cost on to the rest of us. Always have, always will. They didn't get to be the top 1% by being stupid. So, since you seem to be so concerned and have all the answers, what local political post are you running for, so you can actually help your fellow man and not just complain?

[M-Tecs]

Its not the water I drink Sparky. Its the collective thoughts of the common man that I hear. You don't hear them now, but as America slides ever further into great disparity of wealth those thoughts will become more audible and hard to ignore. Jay

COLLECTIVISM
vs.
INDIVIDUALISM

http://freedomkeys.com/collectivism.htm

jaystuw you and I will never agree on anything except that the great disparity of wealth will become greater. This will primarily be due the Dems bankrupting American and allowing the "rich" to purchase everything for cents on the dollar the same as they always have during times of economic collapse.


History will judge how well allowing to Iran start a nuclear arms race in the Middle East works out.

[jaystuw]

M-Tecs. How about we agree to drift further left and socialize our way to a more level Financial playing field?

Oh, and its Israel that started the nuclear arms race. Now everyone wants one. Heck , if I lived near Israel, I'd want one too! No one is willing to take a atomic hit and not give a little something back. Jay

[Hickory]

Oh, and its Israel that started the nuclear arms race. Now everyone wants one. Heck , if I lived near Israel, I'd want one too. Jay

With all those countries over there close together like they are, if everyone have nukes,
it would be like a dozen people in an outhouse with hand grenades threatening to blow the other one up.

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs. How about we agree to drift further left and socialize our way to a more level Financial playing field?


Not only NO but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Asked the Greek middle class what they have left after the bankrupcy.

[M-Tecs]

With all those countries over there close together like they are, if everyone have nukes,
it would be like a dozen people in an outhouse with hand grenades threatening to blow the other one up.

Some do not care and tactical nukes are designed for close quarters. Nukes are more useable than most believe.

http://archure.net/liberty/nukenevada.html For the night tests you could read a newspaper from the nuke flash on the streets of Vegas.

http://www.funonthenet.in/articles/hiroshima-nagasaki-today.html

http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/twocities/hiroshima/page15.shtml

http://hiroshima55.tripod.com/id11.html

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/08/hiroshima_64_years_ago.html

[jaystuw]

I kinda like Israel being over there in the midst of the Muslim world. It gives all those Muslims someone to hate and fight and complain about. Without them they would have much more time to focus on US! And face it, you can tax the top 1% all you want, they will figure out some way to pass the cost on to the rest of us. Always have, always will. They didn't get to be the top 1% by being stupid. So, since you seem to be so concerned and have all the answers, what local political post are you running for, so you can actually help your fellow man and not just complain?

Well Springfield, you have covered a lot of ground in a few lines. None of it is to my liking of course. But in a nutshell, Muslims are pissed at us because of our support of Israel. Also,One day we will socialize the heck out of the very wealthy regardless of how smart they are. and Yes! I do seem to be concerned and have all the answers, must be that common touch. And as to helping my fellow man? ha ha slam dunk! My daughter and son in law teach good nutrition and health to the poor Hawaiian kids of Oahu! For free. But I sure the heck pay for it!

So Springfield, throw off those shackles from your conservative roots and join the left while it is still a trickle in the stream that flows thru America. Maybe you can achieve a political post in our new scheme of things and truly make a difference when that trickle turns into a tidal wave.

Oh, and one other thing, my complaining. I'm a common blue collar worker. complaining greases the wheels that get me thru the day! Jay

[jaystuw]

With all those countries over there close together like they are, if everyone have nukes,
it would be like a dozen people in an outhouse with hand grenades threatening to blow the other one up.

Yeah Hickory, that's pretty much how things are going to work out. But I still want my own grenade! Jay

[M-Tecs]

Muslims are pissed at us because of our support of Israel. B.S!!! Muslims have been attacking the U.S. since the 1890's. and their actions lead to the start of WWI. The Muslims hate anything not muslim period.

[Artful]

Ah, Jay's back to play - Here's one that needs your slant on a solution
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274200-California-governor-orders-mandatory-water-restrictions

[jaystuw]

Not only NO but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Asked the Greek middle class what they have left after the bankrupcy.

Oh M-Tecs, take a leap of faith! Maybe the Greeks have not pulled it off yet. But look at the socialist northern Europeans. The healthiest, happiest, most well adjusted people on earth! Jay

[leebuilder]

I have been following this for a while. Makes no sence to me.
the best way to keep a gun out of a terroists hands to destroy it or buy it you self.
ITAR is good in a global sence, not good for us collectors and shooters. The amount of C1, C2s and No7 mk1 destroyed would make a billy goat spew chunks.
Where is my rum. Arg. Sad now.

[jaystuw]

[QUOTE=M-Tecs;3204517]B.S!!! Muslims have been attacking the U.S. since the 1890's. and their actions lead to the start of WWI. The Muslims hate anything not muslim period.[/QUOTE

Oh jeez. M-tecs, where on earth do you get this stuff! Jay

[mold maker]

Where the heck is that often discussed ignore button.

[Duckiller]

A historical fact. This country has been fighting Muslims since before Thomas Jefferson's Presidency. The Barbary pirates were Muslims. Not sure how Jay figures that we are controlled by Isreal when we have provided much of the munitions for their wars. That is why Israel listens to us.

[Duckiller]

What ever happened to the Korean rifles and how are we going to get them back. They probably won't be cheap.

[jaystuw]

Ah, Jay's back to play - Here's one that needs your slant on a solution
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274200-California-governor-orders-mandatory-water-restrictions


Artful, the master of interesting, well illustrated threads. Hi Artful! Good to see you. As you can see, I am enjoying a short period of inspiration. The natives here are fun, Not to restless.Only Had one hit the ignore button on me so far. But that's to be expected, given the nature of the subject matter.

Anyway, Yes, we have a drought in sunny southern California, I have only to walk out my door to see for myself. Unfortunately my solution is, well, less than inspired. My feeling is that this problem is self-solving. We have only to, as are former governor Schwarzenegger once said, " learn to tighten our belts" and get thru it for awhile.

And what happens if "awhile" takes a really long time? Well, that's easy enough also. We enlist your help Artful! Yours and all of your Neighbors. Southern California is home to the Los Angeles Basin. the great social/economic, industrial and shipping hub of the western United States. Water must flow in abundance to keep the wheels of progress turning in this all important location. All neighboring states must do their fair share to make that possible. all must "tighten our belts" and do more with less.

That's the solution Artful. For you it only means a brown lawn and a quick shower a day. Not to much hardship to ask of an Arizonian for a needy California Neighbor during these tough times is it Art? Jay

[perotter]

[QUOTE=M-Tecs;3204517]B.S!!! Muslims have been attacking the U.S. since the 1890's. and their actions lead to the start of WWI. The Muslims hate anything not muslim period.[/QUOTE

Oh jeez. M-tecs, where on earth do you get this stuff! Jay

There you go again. Proving that you've never had an honest discussion with large number of Muslims nor even read what they read for political news/editorials.

Myself, besides just talking to them, I sat with them years ago(pre 9-11) when they read bin Laden articles(etc). After they would read it in Arabic, we'd read it in English.

As far as jumping onto the leftist ship, that ship sail away years ago. Figuratively that ship's name was the Titanic. The left is dying of old age. The young people are libertarians. Guess that is what happens to group that murders it's own children.

[jaystuw]

A historical fact. This country has been fighting Muslims since before Thomas Jefferson's Presidency. The Barbary pirates were Muslims. Not sure how Jay figures that we are controlled by Isreal when we have provided much of the munitions for their wars. That is why Israel listens to us.

Israel listens to the United States? Oh come on duckkiller, where have you been lately? We provide and they do as they please! Jay

[perotter]

What ever happened to the Korean rifles and how are we going to get them back. They probably won't be cheap.

They'll be there for a while yet. There isn't any other place than here to sell them and maybe after the election they'll come in.

[M-Tecs]

[QUOTE=M-Tecs;3204517]B.S!!! Muslims have been attacking the U.S. since the 1890's. and their actions lead to the start of WWI. The Muslims hate anything not muslim period.[/QUOTE

Oh jeez. M-tecs, where on earth do you get this stuff! Jay

It's called history. Even the history channel get this one right. You should watch it sometime.

Do a little research on the who and why Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. It was by Bosnian Serb terrorist Gavrilo Princip who was one of group of eight that wanted to establisha Muslim state. According to most, this action was the flame that finally set off the tinder box that was Europe. In its smoke came World War I.
http://literarytrebuchet.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-assassination-of-franz-ferdinand.html#!/2014/06/the-assassination-of-franz-ferdinand.html (http://literarytrebuchet.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-assassination-of-franz-ferdinand.html#!/2014/06/the-assassination-of-franz-ferdinand.html)

http://www.agilewriter.com/Biography/Princip.htm (http://www.agilewriter.com/Biography/Princip.htm)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/gavrilo-princip-sarajevo-divided-archduke-franz-ferdinand-assassination (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/gavrilo-princip-sarajevo-divided-archduke-franz-ferdinand-assassination)

Fighting Islam's Fierce Moro Warriors - America s first warwith suicidal Islamic warriors

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts)

America’s first jungle war remains largely unknown, except in the Philippines where it began in 1900. Even those rare Americans who have heard of the U.S. jungle war against the Moros often connect it erroneously with the Philippine Insurrection. But with world attention now riveted uponI slamic jihad, we can expect to learn more about the volatile Islamic Moros,especially since they openly supported Afghanistan’s Taliban government and arean ongoing problem for the Philippine government.

Mutual revulsion between the Islamic Moros of the southernPhilippines and the Western world goes back a long way. For more than twocenturies before their defeat by U.S. forces at the end of the 1800s, Spainattempted unsuccessfully to subjugate the diminutive but fanatical MuslimMoros, who average slightly over 5 feet in height. Spanish soldiers had beencaptured by the Moros, dragged into the jungle and tortured for hours on end,finally dying in utter agony over a slow fire after being emasculated. Add tothat the Moro practices of polygamy, slavery and rape of infidels, and it iseasy to see why the American forces in 1898 saw Moros as horror and depravityincarnate.

Called Moros by the Spanish because they reminded Europeansof Muslim, Moroccan Moors, the Moro tribes occupied—and still occupy—Mindanao,the second largest Philippine island, which is about the size of Indiana. Anirregularly shaped, bay-indented splotch of land, Mindanao is a tropical mix ofjungle, small mountains and valleys, with Lake Lanao located in the northcentral area.

[waksupi]

[QUOTE=M-Tecs;3204517]B.S!!! Muslims have been attacking the U.S. since the 1890's. and their actions lead to the start of WWI. The Muslims hate anything not muslim period.[/QUOTE

Oh jeez. M-tecs, where on earth do you get this stuff! Jay

It goes back far before the Barbary Coast days. Read a book.

[M-Tecs]

waksupi you know as well as I do that history or facts are not something jaystuw is interested in.

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1904.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Pirates

The Wind and the Lion is one of my favorite movies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind_and_the_Lion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdicaris_incident#Perdicaris_incident

[jaystuw]

Miltec. You are overreaching. Moro's ? We fought them in minor engagements on the other side of the world in our Quest for colonies. Hardly an attack on America. These people fought from the front door of their huts! Civilize them with a krag, remember?

America fought pirates on the Barbary coast, also a world away, because they were pirates! simple, they steal from anyone and everyone so we fight back. easy!

And finally, WW1. You actually think the great war was over a few inept but lucky assassins in a backward part of one empire? That defies belief. The great war was primed and ready to go long before the assassination of the Grand Duke. Anyone of a number of things could or would of set off the powder keg that was 1914 Europe. Blaming the war on Muslims is fantasy! They were totally minor players on the world stage at the time. Try poor and inept leadership on the part of the rulers of the great powers if you are looking for a cause to the loss of a generation of European youth. Jay

[jaystuw]

Ha ha guys, Jay is well versed in world history and facts! Try another angle to make any traction against your favorite Lib. I can do history off the top of my head! Jay

[bruce drake]

Who Is John Galt?

[sbowers]

This discussion in the forum is closed if you wish to talk politics take it top the proper from
Steve