Laws on Selling Items to Canucks

[kodiak1]

I guess I have to state that this is a bit of a RANT RIGHT OUT OF THE CHUTE!!!!!
I am Canadian and I like to buy lots of my reloading and casting stuff from the USA I Can buy it pay the extra shipping and duties and Taxes and get it up here still cheaper than what it costs me at home.
That in itself is enough to grind any mans gears. Now to the heart of my rant.
I am sorry but there are some really poorly misinformed Americans on the laws of selling to Canadians. Before I go any farther with that statement I will right away interject that most are very on the ball and know what is happening.
I am going to use E-Bay and or Auction Arms as examples.
I see a mould that I need it is a four barrel with handles and the guy doesn't understand that it is okay to come across the line, Yet a scope they are willing to sell you in a heart beat and when you tell them they can't because Uncle Sam has something to say about it they say it can't be it has to be your laws up there.

Jeez if I could buy my odd ball brass and jacketed bullets that I use I would probably save 50% on my reloading costs. Primers and Powder I wouldn't want the hastle if I could. I would buy that at home.

There I vented and I do feel somewhat better. :mrgreen:

As Most on here are Americans what is your take on some of the laws implemented since 911? How do you really feel about them.:-?

Thanks Ken.:coffee:

[jhalcott]

My feelings on the laws are mostly reflective of the politicians. Many are well meaning,but most are "feel good" legislation. They do nothing to prevent a bad person from doing harm.Instead they prevent lawfull citizens from protecting them selves. If just ONE of the people at Virginia Tech today had a pistol ,MAYBE 30 people would STILL be alive. Unfortuneately, IF any one would have shot that SOB, they'd be in prison for life..

[trooperdan]

Kodiak,

This is good timing; I'm selling some brass and bullets and have a couple of Canadians interested. I can check out the US laws but can you tell me if a Canadians can recieve thopse items without problem?

[Springfield]

I have sold leather goods to Canada, if they say they can recieve it I send it. It is paid for so if it can't get through then it is up to the sender to know the laws. But I don't have a problem sending things. Some people get too worried about what the rules are , I try and be legal but it can get pretty silly sometimes. Send it first and worry later.

[Ohio Rusty]

Kodiak: Be aware that you have our sympathies about being Canadian. It's not your fault, even though you good folks call a walleye a pickeral. We in the states are accepting of all kinds of folks. Even Canadians. When it comes to the postal service, I usually mark stuff craft items that I send to canada. A while back, I sent to Nova Scotia 9 quarts of walnut dye and 2 tubs of rendered deer tallow. I always mark the items 'GIFT' on huge, black letters on the senders form so there is no mistake when it gets to customs. I've seen it marked small, then customs charges duty because they didn't see it (brain freeze?) . Live and learn. Another thing you can do if a company won't ship to canada, have the item sent to a friend in the states, then your friend can mail it to you. I have done that several times. There are ways to get around all the sending problems of goods.
Ohio Rusty

[Ricochet]

Hey, I learned everything about Canada from The South Park Movie.

[kodiak1]

Trapperdan The way I understand it is no to the brass and bullets but I have also heard if it under $100.00 Cdn it is okay. This is where it gets stupid no one can really tell you one hundred percent for sure.
If I am driving in the USA and was to get stopped for speeding say, if I have
A scope,
Brass,
Bullets for Reloading,
Primers.
Powder,
Cartridges and probably a bunch that I am forgetting I could be charged under your Home Security Act and Deported.
I can go to a gun show and buy a muzzle loader and bring it home no problem as long as I call Canada's registry get it registered and have a faxed copy of the papers when i hit the boarder I pay Taxes and Carry on home. That i got from the Customs fellas at Sweetgrass/Coutts at the Montana/Alberta main crossing.
Talked to a fella at a gunshow in the states that sold me 2 scopes about 8 months later some law enforcement (federal) came and informed him he had 63 charges of selling scopes to Canadians. If he cooperated they would go lightly on him if he bucked the system they would do likewise.
Sounds like pretty strong arm tactics to me.

Dman I hate it when the kids can't play together in the sand box.

Ken

[uscra112]

Ironically, I've several times bought gun parts from Canadians, and they come thru Customs to the USA just fine - even clearly labeled as such.

eBay and PayPal prohibit sending any part of a gun out of the USA. But I did not know that Canada had such draconian import laws. Scopes, for heaven's sake? By that reckoning, you can't buy binoculars either, I suppose.

[floodgate]

uscra112:

From what I understand from other posts on the subject, the prohibition on 'scopes is not on the Canadian import end, but a US export regulation. (I guess "sniper-scopes" can only be sold to Iran???)

floodgate

[tommag]

I remember reading somewhere that exportation of "sighting devices" is restricted by the U.S.

[trooperdan]

I've been doing some research into this. I have found it is an amazing bureaucracy! Turns out it is a State department responsibility under section 22 Code of Federal regulations. They maintain a Munition List and riflescopes "manufactured to military specification" are excluded from export (22 CFR 121.1(b). Cartridge cases, bullets and other similar items are also munition list items, catagory III. There may be an exemption in 123.17(e) that allows US citizens to export less than 1,000 cartridges for non-automatic weapons for personal use. It is all very confusing!

[The Double D]

Hi Dan,

Rifle scopes for strictly designe for military purposes are restricted for export and require a State Department export license. Sporting scopes require a Commerce Depart export license

Small quantities of certain gunparts---$100 worth may be exported without a license.

The Old Canadian exemption in the U.S export laws got seriously modified about 10 years ago after Canada brought pressure on the U.S. to do so at a meeting of the Organization of American States.

I am not current n the export laws now, but it use to be my specialty. One thing I can tell you is do not depend on any legal advice you get via the internet.

Here are some registered importers/exporters who may be willing to help you get large ticket item across legally

Import/Export Agents

Kebco LLC - http://www.kebcollc.com

Simpson Ltd. - http://www.simpsonltd.com

Leroy's Big Valley Guns (eMail) - leroygun@nemontel.net

John Appleton - http://users.erols.com/apple1co

The reason many business don't want to get involved with export becasue it cost $1750 a year to be a registered exporter.

There are a couple gunshops on the borders that have blanket license for export. Wish I could remember their names. One in Grand Forks and one in Buffalo.

[tom barthel]

I don't know Canadian law but, is there a problem calling the brass "brass extrusions"? How about scopes as telescopes or optical instruments? Cast bullets as lead castings? There is NO lie in that. It seems the mere mention of firearms related items rattles these monkeys cages.
I would suggest not mentioning CARTRIDGE CASES or, BULLETS or, RIFLE SCOPES on any package going across any border. Also be creative but, don't lie.

[drinks]

I have sent a number of cast bullets to Canada, SA and OZ, just marked the package as a gift and containing metal alloy hobby castings.
All got there just fine.

[versifier]

Ahh. Scopes = "telescopes". Brass = "extrusions". Boolits = "extrusions" or "castings". Parts = "machine parts". All are "Gifts". Never declare a value of over $100. I can live with that. :drinks:

[arkypete]

Ken
I'm a rebel.
I believe that it's my obligation to ignor every stupid law our legislators come up with.
If i was sending cast bullets North I'd just label them as antimonial castings, to be used as pistons in an internal combustion device, for hobby experimental purposes.
Brass would become turned copper alloy extrusions for gas containment.
Just keep in mind down south of the border it's not what you do as much as wheat you call it. Besides governement employees are not candidates for Oxford scholorships.
Jim

[tomf52]

Not wanting to hijack the tread but..... if you think international laws have gone crazy I just titled and registered a boat, canoe, and two trailers here in PA that I brought in from New Jersey when I moved. The documentation process required a trip back to NJ motor vehicle, multiple visits to a licensed PA inspection mechanic and/or PA law enforcement officer and the title and tag agencies, and $250.00 of my money! For four titles and registrstions!. One is a canoe, the other is a 13 foot rowboat! I asked the title and tag clerk what the deal was and was told this is the result of new Homeland Security regulations that went into effect Jan 1 this year. What's next?! What does Homeland Security have to do with canoes and little boat trailers?

[arkypete]

Tom
Like in the movies, anything you tell the government they will use against you or tax.
In this case they will tax you.
Jim

[kodiak1]

Oh there are ways around it. If memory serves me correct (for examplew a scope)
if anyone mails me a scope from the USA and it makes it to me no problems with customs YOU THE SENDER will get fined and I belive it is suppose to be up to $50,000.00 if US Customs find it being sent then you are in the same boat.
Me the GUY BUYING is only out the cost of the scope and mailing, no fine.
At worst probably a note at customs to watch my **** if I should venture down for a visit. Serious Shtuff!!!
Ken

[209jones]

This is a current US-Cdn export/import company who has a reasonable explanation that will maybe help people stay out of trouble on this subject. The US created the rules, Canada did not object or apply for the exemptions they could have obtained;
http://hurricanebutterflyresearch.com/

[a.squibload]

... it's not what you do as much as what you call it.

During the "Obama ammo scare" the best price I got on primers was from a guy in Germany.
He labeled them "button batteries", not sure why.

[ricksplace]

I live about 35 miles from the Canada-USA border. Pre -911, I ordered stuff to a USA mailing address, then simply drove there to pick them up. I declared everything at the Canadian side of the border and never had a problem. Not a lot has really changed on the Canadian side, but everything has changed on the American side. Even if I could convince someone to ship me a barrel to my USA address, I run a huge risk transporting the item the 1/4 mile back to the Canadian side of the border. I have witnessed Homeland Security dismantling a car in that 1/4 mile stretch.

I guess it boils down to this. If you are an American, don't sell or ship anything shooting related out of the country. If you do, you put yourself at risk. If you are Canadian, do not transport anything shooting related on American soil without the appropriate American permits. If you do, you put yourself at risk. Pretty simple, really. Sucks real bad, but life is full of disappointments. I found a workaround through my local gunshop. Costs me a little more, but it keeps me out of jail.

A Canadian friend of mine got caught on American soil with something (shooting related) he shouldn't have had. He lost his new Dodge diesel truck and spent a few days in a USA jail. Cost him $25,000 in legal fees to deal with the charges. His indiscretion cost him over $50,000, and now he can't set foot on American soil. I have no intentions of taking any risks that would put me in that kind of situation.

I like shooting and I like my USA neighbours. It's your country and your laws and I'll abide by them.

[gew98]

This whole thing reminds me of how the ATF has supplied rather lethal and exotic weapons to the mexican drug cartels...not counting what the mexicans walk across the border to their drug lords besides cash. But somehow Canada is treated like a den harboring terrorists and or an avenue of terrostic travel ?. I just can't believe how farked up the US gov't is when the mexican border is so open for such political reasons and yet they can indulge themselevs with law abiding US & Canadian citizens on the northern border. It's pretty sad.
About 10 years ago or so I sent a colt 1903 magazine & grips and a few small internal parts to a collector friend in the UK. When royal mail opened the package they and a firearms inspector went to my friends house , conducted a search gave him holy hell and asked him if he had the "paperwork" for his colt pistol , he did and then they produced copies of his... they knew all along he was legal yet gave him the up the backside search...and in the end they declared the parts I sent contraband and that they would be destroyed. Gov't is getting too big everywhere.

[Andy Griffith]

A Canadian friend of mine got caught on American soil with something (shooting related) he shouldn't have had. He lost his new Dodge diesel truck and spent a few days in a USA jail. Cost him $25,000 in legal fees to deal with the charges. His indiscretion cost him over $50,000, and now he can't set foot on American soil. I have no intentions of taking any risks that would put me in that kind of situation.



Whoa!!! That must have been in New York or New Jersey or some other overbearing state that isn't firearm friendly...certainly not Montana or certain states in the south.

It's likely he ran afoul of a state law, rather than a federal law. Many states in the northeastern US are very firearm unfriendly!

I'll have to dig it out, but in the FFL handbook it clearly spells out how and under what circumstances non-citizens may buy, posses and borrow firearms and ammunition in the US. This does not cover state laws, which may be more restrictive in some states.

[ilcop22]

Depending on how far north you are in Alberta, Kodiak, it might just be worth it to drive south to Montana for parts. It's disappointing to me that we need a passport to cross the street in some northern parts of the U.S., let alone the headache of shipping basic shooting supplies to one another. Oh, Canada. NORAD seems to work just fine; why must shipping be such a hassle? After all, shipping parts to Alaska usually means they have to first go through/over Canada!

[lgvenable]

As the son of a former Marine/Dallas cop; all I'll say is the law is what it is. You take your freedom in your own hands when you cross the line, and it's your responsibility to know where the line is. I suport gun rights to the hilt, but understand the need to hold a line on technology.

Follow the advice above and follow the laws to a "T". I own NFA weapons, and you dont even think about circumventing Uncle Sam. Then again thats what three hots and a cot are for...

[robertbank]

As the son of a former Marine/Dallas cop; all I'll say is the law is what it is. You take your freedom in your own hands when you cross the line, and it's your responsibility to know where the line is. I suport gun rights to the hilt, but understand the need to hold a line on technology.

Follow the advice above and follow the laws to a "T". I own NFA weapons, and you dont even think about circumventing Uncle Sam. Then again thats what three hots and a cot are for...

Yes that new technology in rifle scopes is sure a mystery. :roll: The fact the scopes are sold up here as well seems to have escaped you. A lot of the high tech scopes are made in China now and imported into the US and Canada.

The rules regarding export of gun parts for the most part are a result of UN resolutions involving the sale of small arms across International borders. Canada and the US, as countries sign on to the feel good legislation and then pay lip service to it at the national level when ever it is convenient to do so. In the mean time you have Homeland Security justifying their budget by pretending to protect you from "terrorists". Ever notice they usually increase the threat level right around budget time. Never have so few owed so little to so many.

Take Care

Bob

[nanuk]

What I get a laugh at is how many of our US brethren just happen to "forget" their rifles, and they "shoot up" every lick of ammo they bring over...

the North if full of unregistered guns with boxes of ammo stashed at remote cabins and such...

[44 WCF]

I have sold moulds and vintage sights to folks in Canada, takes awhile to get there, but it's only a couple of minutes filling out customs papers and now even less when you do prioty online without a hitch or a comment, just the time to get stuff back and forth. Scopes, optics and gun parts are prorhibited from what I understand, but plain old stuff, not a problem. Onl thing is I cannot track international shipments, one thing that is a bummer.

[nanuk]

you can track items if shipped Priority Mail International.

is request that service quite often for more expensive items

[44 WCF]

Thanks Nanuk, I'm doing something wrong when I use the Click n Shipment. Twice now I haven't been able to track a priority shipment. I just thought maybe once it left the US the PO didn't have access to location or delivery status.
Appreciate the tip, will check it out.

[robertbank]

Thanks Nanuk, I'm doing something wrong when I use the Click n Shipment. Twice now I haven't been able to track a priority shipment. I just thought maybe once it left the US the PO didn't have access to location or delivery status.
Appreciate the tip, will check it out.

Once the item crosses into Canada do your tracking through Canada Post using your tracking number. That is what i do when I ship to the US, I just switch over to USPS.

The Post Office in both of our countries is not what it used to be. Very much improved IMHO. Canada Post has been a Crown Corporation and run as a private enterprise for some time now. Seems to improved the whole operation.

Take Care

Bob

[lgvenable]

Yes that new technology in rifle scopes is sure a mystery. :roll: The fact the scopes are sold up here as well seems to have escaped you. A lot of the high tech scopes are made in China now and imported into the US and Canada.

The rules regarding export of gun parts for the most part are a result of UN resolutions involving the sale of small arms across International borders.

Bob
The sarcasm might be correct, but more to the point: the law is the law; cross it at your peril. I didn't say I agreed with every regulation just that I obey them. For a fact much of what we use is made in China; but then again Uncle has deep pockets and its easier to obey and work to change that we dont agree with. Fact is I'm an NFA weapons owner, so between that and the NRA there might not be that big a difference between us; except of course I'm not the moderator:<))

[pmeisel]

It's threads like this that make me want to dismantle every part of our government except for the USMC and the Army Corps of Engineers.

[nanuk]

one of the very frustrating issues is the US Gov't being such a bully, and being so hypocritical at times when it come to trade issues, and the rules surrounding it.

take the lumber issue or wheat. But when it goes the other way around they just sit back and refuse to acknowledge they were wrong... and never pay up in full.

for the Bureaucracy in the US, FreeTrade means a One Way Street unless they happen to disagree with one section of NAFTA, then it is NO WAY

I mean come on, some of the Senators and Governors are still lying about the 9/11 terrorists crossing the border. Even when they are shown the facts.

Unfortunately the Canadian gov't has no balls to stand up and say "Enough"

And here I thought our respective Governments were "The People". but obviously they are NOT, they are an Elite group of Learned Folks who know more than the Commoners who ELECTED them

I don't see this issue changing any time soon

[X-man]

Casting tools, moulds, reloading gear are all 100% legal to ship to Canada and for us to import. If you want to do the paperwork it isn't a problem to even import guns from the USA. At present, firearms receivers, gun barrels require said paperwork. The US State Dept. ITAR restrictions preclude certain "militarily" significant items, mostly stuff with a NSN number. Some stuff can still be imported, even then, depending on how the State Dept. bureaucrat that signs off on your application that particular day.

However, with respect to casting gear, I just placed another order with Graf's for about $900.00 worth of gear, including moulds, another RCBS Pro-Melt and other goodies. Stuff made in the USA is duty-exempt as per the North American Free Trade Agreement. I just have to pay the GST tax on the declared value.

Incidentally, whenever possible, only ship via USPS and avoid the couriers. Unless you opt for their fastest service that includes the brokerage fee, they will crucify Canadian recipients. Once I had to fork over $45 bucks in brokerage fees for a $70 item. Same item shipped via USPS, cost me a $5 handling fee, plus the 5% tax.

[MGySgt]

Ignorance of the law is not a defense when you have to go to court because you violated the Import/Export Regulations. I also think that, depending on what it was you shipped, it is a Felony. You know what that means? John Law makes you sell all your firearms and you cannot own or posses a firearm. You wife (or significant other) living in the same house as you cannot keep their legal firearms there as long as you live there.

Get a copy of the Import/Export regs and read and understand them of what you can and can’t ship. Some restricted items can be shipped with the proper paper work.

Anyone know what one of the scopes our Snipers used in Vietnam? Redfield 3X9 Wide view! They were matched with Remington 700’s and Winchester Mod 70’s

There are scopes that have ballistic charts built into them – do you want someone to buy them and ship them to Afghanistan to use against our US Troops over there?

If you violate the law and get caught, you will do your time and at the same time give the Anti’s more ammunition against the rest of us law abiding gun owners.

[robertbank]

Ignorance of the law is not a defense when you have to go to court because you violated the Import/Export Regulations. I also think that, depending on what it was you shipped, it is a Felony. You know what that means? John Law makes you sell all your firearms and you cannot own or posses a firearm. You wife (or significant other) living in the same house as you cannot keep their legal firearms there as long as you live there.

Get a copy of the Import/Export regs and read and understand them of what you can and can’t ship. Some restricted items can be shipped with the proper paper work.

Anyone know what one of the scopes our Snipers used in Vietnam? Redfield 3X9 Wide view! They were matched with Remington 700’s and Winchester Mod 70’s

There are scopes that have ballistic charts built into them – do you want someone to buy them and ship them to Afghanistan to use against our US Troops over there?

If you violate the law and get caught, you will do your time and at the same time give the Anti’s more ammunition against the rest of us law abiding gun owners.

Give me a break. Anyone who wants one for that purpose can buy one in any number of countries outside of the US or for that matter buy military sniper rifles from the same sources they buy their weapons from now. You would think from your post ballistic tables are some sort of State secret. Given 87% of the Afghani men over in Afghanistan are illiterate reading the instruction manuals in English would be problematic at best.

It is a stupid restriction fostered by the Bush/Clinton Administration signing UN Resolutions to restrict small weapon exports from one country to another. Like the US, Canada, UK and Russia to name a few, honour that Resolution. FYI the former Liberal Gov't up here signed the same resolution. Just another move by the anti-gun crowd to put barriers in the way for civilians to acquire firearms.

Take Care

Bob

[jim4065]

It's threads like this that make me want to dismantle every part of our government except for the USMC and the Army Corps of Engineers.

Why exempt the Corps of Engineers? When they "improve" something it becomes theirs - especially as a revenue source. I wish they had never come into the State - much like the rest of the Federal government.

[sharpshooter81]

Post deleted PM sent

[Canadiandex]

Over taxed and under serviced is the name of the game in Canada.
Very few places in the gun world here give anyone a deal, the majority won't treat you with respect even when you do deal with them.

[Wal']

What one has to accept is that all of these new cross border regulations have little to do with protecting their country's security & people, but more with revenue raising for their respective Government tax coffers.

Its the new world.............tax anything they can get away with.

[Swamp Man]

The U.S. has the stupidest laws in on the planet. Stop imports and exports but invite muslims to come here and go to school on the Americans tax dollars and give them grants to open businesses without paying taxes. They want to ban our guns all while giving jets,tanks and millions of tax payer's dollars to the muslim brotherhood that want to kill us. All the new laws since 911 do nothing to protect anyone in this country it was designed to regulate our freedom as they see fit.

[209jones]

It appears these guys have figured out how to do it by way of having a US division set up to do the exports;
http://www.irunguns.ca/import-process.php

[robertbank]

There are a few companies that offer this service up here. PITA really. The only folks Obama and his dream team hurt are the US retailers and manufacturers.

One can only hope the Republicans get rid of the right wing wackos and put up some candidates middle of the road types can vote for. If not I am afraid we will just see another Democrat of office. Hillary per chance.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

One can only hope the Republicans get rid of the right wing wackos and put up some candidates middle of the road types can vote for.
Gee, thanks. :(

[robertbank]

Sorry but my sense is the Republicans are doing just that. We can only hope.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

Not to get political, but if the last two Republican candidates weren't "moderate" enough, we're in trouble. It's all those dastardly conservative's fault. Those "wacko right-wingers" as some so lovingly refer to us.

[robertbank]

Nope but it is the folks in Congress that need a major reality check. It is they who send the message to the voters for the Republicans. The last two Republican presidential candidates were nothing more than cannon fodder for the Demos. Some of the Congress types still think the world is flat and about 8,000 years old. Tuff anchor for the Presidential hopefuls to drag around.

Take Care
Bob

[fatelk]

Again, nice to know what you think of some of us. Now you're throwing darts at creationists.

One person's crazy wacko idea is another's reasonable perspective, and personally I try to avoid tossing incendiary barbs at other folk's sincerely held beliefs (even if I think they are wacky), especially outside the off-topic section.

I regret my first post in this thread, contributing to thread drift and out-of-place politics. I guess I've just had a rough week and expected different on this forum. I apologize for that and will not be offended if you use your magical moderator powers to make this little exchange go away.

[joecz858]

Being from canada, the law states that a lot of items are good to go, and we have no problem bringing them home. I.e, several thousand rounds of loaded ammo per person, or even declared firearms are okay. However, at some of the crossing i frequent, there are US border patrol checkpoints that go over with great detail exactly what the 'non resident aliens' are exporting.

[blaser.306]

Being from canada, the law states that a lot of items are good to go, and we have no problem bringing them home. I.e, several thousand rounds of loaded ammo per person, or even declared firearms are okay. However, at some of the crossing i frequent, there are US border patrol checkpoints that go over with great detail exactly what the 'non resident aliens' are exporting.

Unfortunately you are correct! The Canadian border service agency is following Canadial protocall to a letter, However. It is not our side of the border that you need worry about! It is US state dept. and Homeland Security that will make your EXIT from the US with such items as loaded ammo and componants or many other firearm related items not so pleasant!!! ( so much for "free trade" ??? )

[robertbank]

He made his statement and left....oh well

Bob

[Nrut]

Yeah Robert, I thought I was on page 1 when I opened the thread and that Canadadex was the original poster..
Then I finally woke up and saw that I was on pg. 2 and deleted my post..

A lot of our problems with the present U.S. export restrictions stem from the fact that when they came into being by the US Commerce Dept. they asked Canada if they wanted to be exempt as in the past on export restrictions..
Rock was justice minister then..
You see the results..

Having said that our present gov. hasn't seen fit to revisit those restrictions and ask for an exemption..
I wish I could remember my source for the above info to add credibility to it, but heck I have to look at my watch several times a day just to see what day it is..

[robertbank]

You are exactly right that is indeed how it came down and I am sure if Harper asked, the US would remove the restriction. That said Canada has not signed the UN Treaty involving the movement of small arms and Obama has and that Treaty restricts certain items from crossing borders with paper work. I suspect the US Commerce Dept would ignore the Treaty if they were asked for an exemption. We are after all the closest ally of the US and I suspect they regard themselves, as they should, our closest ally. To much mixing of the blood over the years for it to be otherwise.

Take Care

Bob

[Rick Hodges]

If Obama signed the treaty, did the Senate ratify it? It is just hot air and not law unless the Senate ratifies. (there was an advisory vote that passed rejecting the proposed treaty in September, but Kerry, the Sec. of State was going to sign anyway.)
There are all sorts of regulations that can be promulgated with the Presidents signature but not a treaty.

By the way, I agree the rules are BS and accomplish nothing but to inconvenience the law abiding.

[robertbank]

If Obama signed the treaty, did the Senate ratify it? It is just hot air and not law unless the Senate ratifies. (there was an advisory vote that passed rejecting the proposed treaty in September, but Kerry, the Sec. of State was going to sign anyway.)
There are all sorts of regulations that can be promulgated with the Presidents signature but not a treaty.

By the way, I agree the rules are BS and accomplish nothing but to inconvenience the law abiding.


I haven't followed the story. I just saw where Kerry was making a big deal about how the US was making the world safer by signing on with the treaty. Just a bunch of nonsense really. Does Kerry really believe the CIA or some other government agency wouldn't ship arms to whomever if they thought it was in the Americas interest to do so.

Our problem was we had a Liberal Gov't in power when your Commerce Department drafted the present export rules. Our understanding is Canada was offered an exemption as one wold expect, and a guy by the name of Allan Rock who was our Justice Minister at the time turned the offer down. He was the architect of our stupid gun laws and a confirmed anti gun type.

To answer your question I have no idea. You might want to ask your Senator. The Treaty is just so much feel good **** and will only hurt small retailers in the US as well as continue to make cross border movement of firearms by honest hunters and shooters more difficult. I just don't see how it would affect the criminal element or even terrorists. Somebody bent on blowing up the twin towers isn't going to be to concerned he can't bring a 4x rifle scope into the country without an import permit.

Take Care

Bob