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newguy4570
03-27-2015, 05:09 PM
135191I am new to casting and was attempting my first batch when I ran into a situation that I'm unsure about and need some advise.

I first loaded a round seated to the crimp groove on new starline brass. It measured 1.675" col and looked great but would not cycle in my 1894. 135186

I'm loading strictly for my Marlins so I then seated the next two to a COL of 1.610" and they cycled perfect. 135189
Loaded with 17gr of 2400 and my cast are averaging 248gr and using CCI 300 primers.

Will the seating depth of 1.610" cause any pressure problems with this boolit? At this depth there is no crimping groove so what should I do? Taper crimp? I appreciate any help I can get.

gwpercle
03-27-2015, 06:10 PM
From the Lyman Cast Bullet 4th Edition, 17.0 grs of 2400 and a 250 gr. cast SWC is below the starting load of 17.4 grains. so the extra seating depth of .065 wont amount to much pressure increase at all.
You can try a taper crimp ( will need a taper crimp die) or try a light roll crimp with the dies you have. Too much roll crimp will bulge the case so watch it. Neither of these may work in a tubular magazine, they stack on each other, the spring pushes on them and then there is recoil...everything conspiring to shove the boolits back in the case. Only testing will tell.
As I see it you will have to buy a new handgun to fit the mould you have and then have to buy a new mould to fit the OAL, with crimp in groove, for your Marlin....cool how things like this work out. Now just keep telling yourself "I'm saving money by casting and reloading" .
Congratulations on your loads they look great, load safe,
Gary

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 06:18 PM
GW thanks. I was literally waiting for at least one word of encouragement [emoji106]. Now I'm about to step outside and give a one round test fire at my back yard range. Gloves and safety goggles [emoji818]️.

I didn't think about a mold being different for 44 pistol/rifle. Rookie mistake but I guess this is my sign to buy the ruger alaskan 44mag I've been wanting. I'll post a picture of my fired round of I can recover it from the dirt mound.

Standby!

Blammer
03-27-2015, 06:23 PM
take one of your loaded rounds in your hand, grasp it firmly and try to push the bullet into the case by holding the case and all and pressing it against a board or some other hard surface. don't be shy push will all your might. If you can't push it into the case, you are good to go.

kenyerian
03-27-2015, 06:40 PM
Curious what the case length of the brass was. It should be 1.285 in. Sometimes new brass needs trimmed.

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 06:59 PM
Ok. I'm back.
Ken, case measures 1.275"

So I shot one round at a time into a 6' tall mound of wet loose sand and when I dug my boolit out of sand I was disappointed with what I found. 135198

My first thought was that my alloy, lead I've used for pouring fishing jigs for years, was no good. It may not be good but after my thoughts settled I went back and grabbed a round I loaded with a hornady 240gr xtp. I shot this round in the same dirt and when I dug it out I felt a little better. 135199
I understand that wet sand may not be ideal for checking a boolits ability to hold together but it was readily available [emoji6]. Thoughts concerns welcomed.

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 07:02 PM
Blammer i will try that on the next round I make. Thanks

fredj338
03-27-2015, 07:07 PM
You can compress 2400 quite a bit, OAL is just not an issue with such slow powders.
As to expansion. First sand is kinda hard on a bullet. Wetpack or ballistic gel, even water will yield better results. Your alloy has a lot to do with it too. I am betting clip ww? The antimony makes the alloy brittle. I use lead & tin only of LPH. They will run fine to 1300fps or so. Even range scrap works better than clip ww.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-272.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/DSC_0041.jpg.html)

dkf
03-27-2015, 07:11 PM
Take half a dozen one gallon milk jugs and stuff them tight with shredded newspaper and soak with water. This will get you the cheapest and closest to ballistics gel.

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 07:13 PM
Fred, I'm actually using lead that I recovered years ago when a walley sanders tractor trailer wrecked on the interstate. There were 100lb + blocks of shinny lead about the size of two loafs of bread scattered down the median and a friend found some that was left after clean up. I do have buckets of WW's but I haven't used any yet because I'm afraid of getting zinc in my mix. I'm still new to casting and I'm not ready to try melting WW's yet.


LPH??

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 07:18 PM
I'm staring at my pool and my thoughts aren't good lol. 8' deep water should be a good depth, right? [emoji15]

dkf
03-27-2015, 07:50 PM
I have the Mihec #503 mold also. Here is a thread that may help you. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?74889-Mihec-HG-503-Cramer-hollow-point

It would be good for you to know the hardness of your lead, especially if you want expansion out of your hollowpoint bullets. hardness can be the difference between expansion (mushroom) and just blowing the nose off the bullet.

If you don't know anyone with a hardness tester to test your lead hardness you could send me a sample and I could test it with my Cabine Tree tester.

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 08:23 PM
dkf, thanks for your help. I read through that thread x6 pages.

I guess I need someone to tell me which mp hp mold is designed for the lever action 44. The crimp groove on mine is obviously not going to work with COL problems.

longbow
03-27-2015, 08:31 PM
I had horrible feeding problems using SWC's in my 1894 so gave up on them until I was given a Mihec H&G #503 mould. It was such a beautiful mould I figured I had better find a way to get it to feed.

First off the OAL is a problem so I found an article that showed how to file the cartridge stop to allow longer OAL. It is an easy job if you have any sort of tools and skills at all. Basically a screwdriver set, vice, jaw padding and file is about all you need. It is a simple job.

Next was the fact that my carrier lifted the rounds a bit too high so they hung up on the chamber mouth. A little filing of the carrier fixed that.

Now they feed well ~ and better, accuracy is good! Now I get to use my SWC moulds for my Marlin.

If you get it feeding I am sure you will like that boolit.

Longbow

dkf
03-27-2015, 08:41 PM
dkf, thanks for your help. I read through that thread x6 pages.

I guess I need someone to tell me which mp hp mold is designed for the lever action 44. The crimp groove on mine is obviously not going to work with COL problems.

The MP version of the 429640 should work. A group buy was just delivered of that mold, he probably still has extras. I could send you a few of them to try if you want.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256617-MiHec-429640-HP-or-Solid-2-Cav-or-4-Cav-Brass-Mold

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 10:30 PM
dkf, thanks again. I just pm'd Mihec to see if there are any extras left over. I'd love to buy one of them.

longbow
03-27-2015, 10:40 PM
Not sure what your uses are but while I like the H&G #503, the Mihec version of the Lyman 429640 feeds perfectly (MP 434640 ~ RNFP). It is a little heavier but fits the Marlin as is and shoots well too. The Lymans cast a little small for Marlin bores.

If all you want is solid then Tom at Accurate moulds can make whatever you want to whatever diameter you want... but he does not do HP moulds.

newguy4570
03-27-2015, 10:43 PM
Thanks longbow. If there are no left over mp molds I'll check In with Tom.

I really like my two mp molds. Even if I make ugly boolits my molds are purdy[emoji6]

longbow
03-28-2015, 12:11 AM
There is a group buy in the MP 434640 right now. The group buy is closed but Miha may have extras.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256617-MiHec-429640-HP-or-Solid-2-Cav-or-4-Cav-Brass-Mold

Yes, Mihec does make nice moulds!

Tom also makes nice moulds!

So many nice moulds... so little money!

DLCTEX
03-28-2015, 12:21 AM
I get good mushroom expansion with my hollowpoints by using ww/lead +2% tin. You can sort out zinc, also iron weights, by testing each one by trying to cut them with wire cutting pliers. If you can cut or groove it , it's ok. Actually the boolit you show is not a failure as there is plenty left solid to punch on through.

Some ww marked "al" will be good alloy covered with plastic to stop galvnic reaction on aluminum alloy wheels. Just smelt them and the plastic will burn off.

newguy4570
03-28-2015, 10:08 AM
Thanks for all the help. I just scored another mp mold. Thank you dkf for the direction. When my wife sees another package show up I'll be sure she knows who fed the monster lol.

Thank you

newguy4570
03-28-2015, 09:36 PM
Well I thought I had this figured out[emoji53]. Today I attempted to cast again and decided to add some old cast net lead that I acquired. Not sure what was in it but I couldn't get mold to fill out without wrinkles even after pushing temp way up. My noob thought process tells me that they may have contained zinc. Not sure. Boolits wouldn't release from hp pins either. I have emptied my pot and will use this lead for fishing jigs I guess.

longbow
03-29-2015, 01:37 AM
My first guess is that the mould is too cold. Doesn't much matter how hot the lead is if the mould is not hot enough... you won't get good fillout.

Mihec brass moulds like to be run hot so cast fast and steady with a fairly hot lead pot. Don't stop to admire boolits, KEEP CASTING at a steady cadence to keep mould temperature up and more importantly HP pins hot.

If you are using pure or near pure lead good fillout will be harder to get as well. Hotter will help but maybe add some tin too.

Also, if you are not pre-heating the mould then try that. I pre-heat until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke. The mould is slightly too hot then but settles in quickly and I get few rejects.

I find that my Mihec, NOE and Accurate moulds have to be kept hotter than Lee, Lyman or RCBS moulds to cast well. Once you sort out the casting cadence and hot mould requirements you should be getting about the best boolits you have ever seen.

Try wiping a small amount of sprue plate lube on the HP pins using a Q-tip. That should help with release but keeping those pins hot is the main thing and that means mould closed and full of lead as fast as possible!

Longbow

newguy4570
03-29-2015, 09:47 AM
I appreciate yall taking the time to share your knowledge. I'm sure I'm 1 of 1000 that come along asking same ole questions yet yall still offer the help. Thanks

44man
03-29-2015, 10:18 AM
You do not need expansion with a .44 if in the 1300 fps range. Go faster or slower then just enough will be needed. No shattered boolits at all. keep penetration no matter what. Pieces of boolits is not a good sign.

Mal Paso
03-29-2015, 01:35 PM
Iron molds hold heat and aluminum molds don't need much heat. Brass molds are harder to get up to temp because they have a similar mass as Iron but conduct and dissipate heat much faster.

I own both the 503 HP clone and 432640 HP. I preheat on a hotplate with a steel plate over the coils to just below casting temperature. Make sure the 2 pins attaching the handles aren't sticking out below the mold so the bottom of the mold and the HP pins contact the plate. After you get the mold up to temperature consistent pours will keep it there. If something breaks your rhythm the mold can go back on the hotplate.

dkf was right about using media. Water can blow the noses off HPs that will hold up in meat.

newguy4570
04-10-2015, 01:47 PM
Well thanks to all the enablers [emoji12]. I just received my 3rd mp mold. It arrived yesterday and I can't wait to try it out. Thanks again for all yalls help. My wife was informed that yall made me do it lol. 136451136452

44man
04-11-2015, 10:12 AM
Iron molds hold heat and aluminum molds don't need much heat. Brass molds are harder to get up to temp because they have a similar mass as Iron but conduct and dissipate heat much faster.

I own both the 503 HP clone and 432640 HP. I preheat on a hotplate with a steel plate over the coils to just below casting temperature. Make sure the 2 pins attaching the handles aren't sticking out below the mold so the bottom of the mold and the HP pins contact the plate. After you get the mold up to temperature consistent pours will keep it there. If something breaks your rhythm the mold can go back on the hotplate.

dkf was right about using media. Water can blow the noses off HPs that will hold up in meat.
Correct, big brass molds are very tough to keep working. The molds are perfection but the guy casting must learn them.
I stand behind not needing a HP for the .44. Many say they want a deer on the ground at the shot but the .44 is not IT. If you want that try the .475. NO HP or soft either.
Expect 20 to 30 yard runs with a hard .44 boolit but 60 or more with a fast expanding boolit.
I might be near 570 deer killed and know what happens. The .475 will drop almost every deer in the spot but the .500 JRH sucked until I made half the nose softer, and it now drops them faster.
I did not go pure, I went 3# of pure with 1# of WW metal.
Looking for too much expansion is a large mistake.

newguy4570
04-12-2015, 09:14 PM
44man I appreciate your thoughts and advise. I'll admit my only reason for HP molds is the cool factor lol. I'm a 45-70 nut. It gives me all the dead deer I want. My 1894's are just for pure fun and HP's are purdy to me. 136749