Pure lead boolit velocity results part 3

[Lead melter]

Well, here are my latest results of trying to see how fast a pure lead boolit can be driven with a standard degree of accuracy. Today's powder is AA-5744.

Testing parameters can be found on my post "Testing tomorrow" dated 2/20/08.

Wind was terrible today with steady 15 mph, gusting to 30mph. But the test went on.

14 grains 5744
Group 1- 1.337"
Group 2- 1.047"
Group 1 velocity-1273 fps
Group 2 velocity-1270 fps
Average-1.192"
Velocity average-1272 fps

15 grains 5744
Group 1-1.872"
Group 2-1.385"
Group 1 velocity-1360 fps
Group 2 velocity-1356 fps
Average-1.628"
Velocity average-1358 fps

16 grains 5744
Group 1-2.776"
Group 2-.994"
Group 1 velocity-1455 fps
Group 2 velocity-1433 fps
Average-1.885"
Velocity average-1444 fps

17 grains 5744
Group 1-1.610"
Group 2-3.016"
Group 1 velocity-1518 fps
Group 2 velocity-1529 fps
Average-2.358"
Velocity average-1523 fps

18 grains 5744
Group 1-3.392"
Group 2-3.318"
Group 1 velocity-1594 fps
Group 2 velocity-1603 fps
Average-3.355"
Velocity average-1598 fps

There were no drammatic velocity readings as was the case with Win 748, although gas blow-by was existent, but not terrible.

Keep in mind the gusting wind wreaking havoc on occasional boolits.

As has been the case thus far, accuracy seems to start to drop out somewhere around 1400-1500 fps with this particular gun, boolit, lube, etc.

I plan to repeat the test using 14, 15, 16 grain charges tomorrow it the weather holds. These tests will be done at 100 yards.

I also did tests with H-4198 and same bollit, etc., and the results were almost unbelievable......but you must wait for the next posting to find out.

[Vly]

Link to the original thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26464

My first questions - Why did you size to .308 ? Did you have any leading during the test? Did you clean the bore before you moved on to the next powder charge?

[Lead melter]

Vly,
When I started casting about 4-5 years ago, I had a minimum of guidance. Just one old hand that cast everything out of 20:1 alloy. Worked for him, so he never varied. The only other resource I had was what I could pick up from shooting publications when an article dealt with it. I sized my 30 caliber boolits at .308" thinking they should be sized the same as a condom bullets. After several one hole groups at 50 yards, I figured .308" would work, since it did for me. Then, I was introduced to this sight by 454PB and only then did I find out a .308" sized boolit is not supposed to shoot well. I have a .309" sizer on order, but I use what I have on hand.
My rifle with the Lee boolit will shoot 3/4" to 1 1/4" groups all day with .308" sized boolits when fired with 10 grains Unique and a Williams receiver sight. I mounted the scope on the gun just to have a more definite sighting arrangement out to 100 yards. I have also shot same sized groups with same load and boolit from a 308 Vanguard, and 2 other folks I have given this load to have also reported excellent accuracy.
As far as leading goes, none to speak of. An occasional fleck of lead, which I consider no leading at all. I have had no leading problems with any gas checked boolit I have had any dealings with. Plain base boolits have caused some problems, especially when run fast, but that is an alloy/fit problem, at least in my opinion.
Hoppes #9, brass brush, scrub, wipe, dry, light oil, fire 2 foulers and go for it.
I suppose I could have also tried .309", or .310" sized boolits, but that much more testing would have been a little more than I can handle with the spare time I have at this time. Once I determine a velocity threshold for this boolit, I plan to move to larger diameter slugs and see if the same criteria holds true. Of course, as I have stated, this is a test of one rifle, one lube, one boolit, etc. It is not intended to be comprehensive and others may have different results. It is just something I personally wanted to find out and thought others might be interested to find out some results.
Please do not be offended by the 'matter of fact' tone of this reply, I simply wanted to state what 'facts' I have found so far. I welcome any further questions.

[Lead melter]

Vly,
When I started casting about 4-5 years ago, I had a minimum of guidance. Just one old hand that cast everything out of 20:1 alloy. Worked for him, so he never varied. The only other resource I had was what I could pick up from shooting publications when an article dealt with it. I sized my 30 caliber boolits at .308" thinking they should be sized the same as a condom bullets. After several one hole groups at 50 yards, I figured .308" would work, since it did for me. Then, I was introduced to this sight by 454PB and only then did I find out a .308" sized boolit is not supposed to shoot well. I have a .309" sizer on order, but I use what I have on hand.

My rifle with the Lee boolit will shoot 3/4" to 1 1/4" groups all day with .308" sized boolits when fired with 10 grains Unique and a Williams receiver sight. I mounted the scope on the gun just to have a more definite sighting arrangement out to 100 yards. I have also shot same sized groups with same load and boolit from a 308 Vanguard, and 2 other folks I have given this load to have also reported excellent accuracy.

As far as leading goes, none to speak of. An occasional fleck of lead, which I consider no leading at all. I have had no leading problems with any gas checked boolit I have had any dealings with. Plain base boolits have caused some problems, especially when run fast, but that is an alloy/fit problem, at least in my opinion.

Hoppes #9, brass brush, scrub, wipe, dry, light oil, fire 2 foulers and go for it.

I suppose I could have also tried .309", or .310" sized boolits, but that much more testing would have been a little more than I can handle with the spare time I have at this time. Once I determine a velocity threshold for this boolit, I plan to move to larger diameter slugs and see if the same criteria holds true. Of course, as I have stated, this is a test of one rifle, one lube, one boolit, etc. It is not intended to be comprehensive and others may have different results. It is just something I personally wanted to find out and thought others might be interested to find out some results.

Please do not be offended by the 'matter of fact' tone of this reply, I simply wanted to state what 'facts' I have found so far. I welcome any further questions.

[454PB]

It will be interesting to see what happens when your larger sizing die arrives. I too used .308" sizing when I first started shooting cast in my .30 caliber rifles. I now have sizers in .308 through .311. Not all rifles like the same size.

[Vly]

Lead Melter - Thanks for your reply. The really interesting thing about experimentation like you are doing is it exposes some of the myths we have heard in the past. When I started the word was your boolit needed to be 1/1000th over groove diameter. I only had a .309 sizer ( which worked good ) but ordered a .310 to make sure I was missing out on something.

If you are shooting a Micro-groove Marlin you are disproving another myth - that MG barrels need "fat" boolits to shoot well.

My barrel cleaning questions were just so I understand your method. Keep up the good work.

[Bass Ackward]

Of course, as I have stated, this is a test of one rifle, one lube, one boolit, etc. It is just something I personally wanted to find out and thought others might be interested to find out some results. I welcome any further questions.


What I would like to see is a summation when you become satisfied and complete your testing. Taking some time to digest overall results for any patterns.

[cbrick]

Fascinating Lead melter, please keep up the testing and please keep posting the results.

I looked at the linked previous post looking for slugged groove diameter. .308" sizing but in what bore diameter? My 308 has a groove diameter of .3084" and my 30-30 with the best looking rifle bore I have is .3102".

Depending on your groove diameter I would put my money on pure lead giving at least somewhat better groups with no leading at somewhat higher velocities (pressure) once your .309" and/or .310" dies arrive.

In the previous post you asked for suggestions on additional powders. My 308 wuss load is 19.0 gr SR 4759 with air cooled WW, 180 gr. @ 190 fps. That's not pure lead but its surprising accuracy (to me) at 150 meters. Also, I haven't tested this powder under 18.0 gr. but you might want to consider this powder for your tests.

I agree with Bass, on down the road when you are satified with the testing a post with the summaries would be great. Curious minds want to know.

Rick

[Lead melter]

Bass and cbrick,

Thats for comments and encouragement. The bad part of the equation is that my local range is closing this week!!!!! That means I may have to continue the info in a 'makeshift' manner utilizing someone's private property without benefit of bench, stands, etc.
My other options are to delay more testing until I get access to a new range, or take what results I have compiled thus far, make do with what info I can glean from this and then tabulate results from that.
A new hunting preserve is opening its doors to members of the current range, with plans as of now to build a rifle and pistol range in the future. These things take time to get accomplished. I may proceed farther with tests if the range opens, but my gut instinct is to 'give what I got and go with it'.
No, I do not know my bore size as I have never made a cast of it. That level of expertise is something I plan to follow up on in the future. I am still a babe in arms so to speak.
You may be right about the larger diameter bettering results, I just don't have the time to persue that trail right now.
Post #4 with H-4198 is forthcoming, and a summary will follow as soon as I get done crunching the numbers so to speak.

[cbrick]

http://www.lasc.us/deprimetriste294230fr.gif Another range closing. Sure do get tired of hearing that.