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jcwit
03-24-2015, 01:37 PM
Not the folks here as I have no idea how yoou'al dress.

But my wife and I have returned to going to Church since last December. The way some folks dress one would think we were the local homeless shelter for services. Some even give the Wal-Mart shopper a run for the money.

Yes I understand The Lord cares less what is on ones back but out of respect for the office He holds, seems to me a suit is in order and shoes, not flip flops. And cost is not an object as 2 of my best shoes came from GoodWill at $6.00 each, some shoe polish and they look like new. Myself, I wear a suit and dress shirt and tie, now after 3 months we have 2 others wearing suits. Here's hoping I started something.

I started to call a few florists for an Easter Corsage for my wife and none of the local ones even carry one. But it will be accomplished even with a 30 mile round trip.

Rant over.:|

DR Owl Creek
03-24-2015, 01:44 PM
Come to think about it, I do see a lot of people who look like they've been wearing the same clothes for days, and not bathing or showering. At least they seem to make up for it by having lots of tats and piercings though.

Dave

texaswoodworker
03-24-2015, 01:45 PM
I put less though into how one dresses, and more though into how one acts. Who's worse? The young girl in the ragged jeans and shirt that always try to be the best Christian she can be, or the older woman in the nice dress who sneaks a $5 bill out of the offering plate every Sunday?

Love Life
03-24-2015, 01:51 PM
Dem' dar kids aint got no home raisin'!

country gent
03-24-2015, 01:58 PM
Im not so impressed with how some one dresses or what they wear as I am attitude and how they act and or behave. When was the last time you seen someone remove thier hat for the playung of the National Anthem during a prayer pledge of allegence or raising of the flag? Open doors for people? help a person with a heavy load or burden? Sometimes its actions that speak way louder than looks clothes or words. Alot of kids dont have dress clothes but have the heart and are polite and helpfull.

Freightman
03-24-2015, 02:07 PM
Dropped my Cain at Wal Mart a nice young lady picked it up and ask is there anything else? I thanked her, not all young are rude . Older will come closer to being rude!

jcwit
03-24-2015, 02:23 PM
Not referring only to the young.

Folks seem to have lost respect towards others and in the process have lost respect for themselves.

Not long ago I went to court for the reading of my aunts will, no wonder these folks get the book thrown at them for minor offenses, and no wonder they have no joy, I wouldn't hire them either.

To those that say it's all in how they act, well golly gee, how one dresses is part of how they are acting.

Blanco
03-24-2015, 02:30 PM
This is not the polite society America WAS. Seems now many younger folk want to be all tattoos and piercings. I guess it's the thug life more and more have to grow up with.

montana_charlie
03-24-2015, 02:36 PM
When was the last time you seen someone remove thier hat for the playung of the National Anthem during a prayer pledge of allegence or raising of the flag? Open doors for people? help a person with a heavy load or burden? Sometimes its actions that speak way louder than looks clothes or words. Alot of kids dont have dress clothes but have the heart and are polite and helpfull.
I haven't visited a big city for a long time, now.
But, among the small towns out here in central Montana, what you describe is pretty much everyday stuff ...

texaswoodworker
03-24-2015, 02:38 PM
To those that say it's all in how they act, well golly gee, how one dresses is part of how they are acting.

No, not really. Ever hear the phrase "never judge a book by it's cover"? The rudest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting were mostly well dressed people over 40.


This is not the polite society America WAS. Seems now many younger folk want to be all tattoos and piercings. I guess it's the thug life more and more have to grow up with.

The days of tattoos and piercings being associated solely with gangs and ex military (the tattoos anyway) are long over. They do not have that association anymore, and about 20%-40% of people have at least one tattoo. They've become an artistic expression.

Tattoos have just as much association with thugs as guns do. I think you'll agree that just having a few guns doesn't make you a wannabe thug. Does it?

Iowa Fox
03-24-2015, 02:45 PM
I have been complaining about this same exact thing for years. I watched it start, it happened between the fall of 1967 and the spring of 1968. Its been downhill ever since.

jcwit
03-24-2015, 03:10 PM
No, not really. Ever hear the phrase "never judge a book by it's cover"? The rudest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting were mostly well dressed people over 40.




There are also the saying

You are what you wear.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/Health/Emotional-Health/Discovering-the-Psychology-of-Dress.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-alpert/becoming-fearless_b_4165264.html


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141030124329-20017018-does-how-you-look-and-dress-impact-your-career-sadly-yes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2644076/You-DRESS-Clothing-significant-effect-self-esteem-confidence-claims-expert.html


Sorry to hear of your experience with well dressed people, may hap its possible as to how yourself came across to them?

wv109323
03-24-2015, 03:24 PM
In my area clean casual dress is the normal for church attendance. I always figured I would dress as if I was going to meet the Lord. You don't know when you might.
But you are right some people need to consider how they dress before going to church.
An eye opener for me was I was called for jury duty about a year ago. The first day there was about 10% of the possible candidates that looked like they got up and taken a bath and put on clean clothes. There was 130 people summonsed.

dilly
03-24-2015, 03:43 PM
If one dresses up purely out of reverence for God, how likely is it that a side effect of that homage is for him to look down upon fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? If that is the result, perhaps one is dressing up to suit his own pride rather than to please the Lord.

The byproduct of worship is not pride, but humility.

texaswoodworker
03-24-2015, 03:45 PM
There are also the saying

You are what you wear.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/Health/Emotional-Health/Discovering-the-Psychology-of-Dress.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-alpert/becoming-fearless_b_4165264.html


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141030124329-20017018-does-how-you-look-and-dress-impact-your-career-sadly-yes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2644076/You-DRESS-Clothing-significant-effect-self-esteem-confidence-claims-expert.html


Sorry to hear of your experience with well dressed people, may hap its possible as to how yourself came across to them?

I don't really put much credit into what news sources say. The clothes don't make the man, the man makes the man.


James 2:1-5

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?


Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that you be not judged.


1 Samuel 16:6-7
When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed stands here before the Lord.”

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

As for where I met those people. I worked in a store at the time. I met just about every kind of person you could think of, including those people who dress like you described. They were not the rudest customers I had to deal with, not by a loooooooong shot.

waksupi
03-24-2015, 04:13 PM
I don't care how people dress, I'm pretty shabby most of the time, myself. Dressing up isn't why a person should be going to church. Most go because they sow their wild oats all through the week, then go to church on Sunday to pray for a crop failure.

Love Life
03-24-2015, 04:16 PM
I didn't choose the thug life, the thug life chose me.

wch
03-24-2015, 04:24 PM
Many have no self respect and therefore no respect for God or country.

1johnlb
03-24-2015, 05:12 PM
To look at a man's outward appearance and judge his inward heart is sheer prejudice. Prejudice has no place in the body of Christ.

But at the same time certain clothing don't belong in church, such as miniskirts and low cut blouses, they reveal way to much. In life we are required to dress for occasion. If we're going to the beach we wear bathing suits, to a funeral we wear black suits and dresses,etc etc.. I don't feel that going to church is or should be like going to a funeral, God's not dead! And if the church becomes a building for those who have risen above poverty (TheElite) we have surly missed the call of God and no more than just a country club that will eventually die. That should be revalation enough right there for some of the church's I've been in, dead, they look good but if the Spirit was to move they'd try throwing Him out I bet.

The biggest problem in my opinion of those wearing inappropriate clothing (for those that can afford better) their in church for the wrong reason and came with the wrong spirit. That's OK though because while they come for one reason but get touched by the Holy Spirit He's the one that does the work. Men want to change people from the outside in but God deals with the heart, inside out. It's the heart that must be changed and only God can do that. We can change our appearance but with out the change of heart when you leave the church building we are still that inappropriate person. We should be praying for not only those who are inappropriate but also for those who dress up the outward self but inward are wolves at heart.

jcwit
03-24-2015, 05:18 PM
If one dresses up purely out of reverence for God, how likely is it that a side effect of that homage is for him to look down upon fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? If that is the result, perhaps one is dressing up to suit his own pride rather than to please the Lord.

And perhaps not,all depends what is in ones heart.

jcwit
03-24-2015, 05:22 PM
Everyone is referring to church, this has way more than to do with church, I only used that as an example. It's all over. Compare how entertainers dressed in the 60's to how a rap " star?" dresses today.

1johnlb
03-24-2015, 05:30 PM
Everyone is referring to church, this has way more than to do with church, I only used that as an example. It's all over. Compare how entertainers dressed in the 60's to how a rap " star?" dresses today.

WHEAT AND THE TARE

The tares seem to be choking out the wheat doesn't it.

birddog
03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
I have a grandson that is coming 3 and he has learned please and thankyou and he will not back talk. His folks are doing a great job in raising him and even though granmpa swats his rear once in a while, he knows that he is loved and therefore shows his love towards others also.
Charlie

Love Life
03-24-2015, 05:50 PM
Everyone is referring to church, this has way more than to do with church, I only used that as an example. It's all over. Compare how entertainers dressed in the 60's to how a rap " star?" dresses today.

How does a Gospel singer today compare to how entertainers dressed in the 60's?

Houndog
03-24-2015, 05:52 PM
You all probably wouldn't like or be comfortable in the church I go to. You are more likely to see people in blue jeans and bib overalls than you are a suit and tie, even on the preacher, but be assured GOD IS THERE! I've seen people get "in the spirit" testifying and the preacher won't even get to preach. How people look at church means NOTHING to me, it's how they act and if they humble themselves before GOD and their fellow man. I know my brand of religion doesn't suit other people, but what GOD thinks is all that matters to me.

opos
03-24-2015, 05:56 PM
I don't attend a formal church but I do have a strong connection with the God of my understanding...I also understand that my worship of that God is a "come as you are party"....God will meet me anywhere, any time and not judge me or my intentions or actions by the clothing I wear of if I'm shaved on that day. I was raised in a very formal church setting in the 40's and 50's and always dressed up nice and neat...but I had to find my God when I wasn't so neat and clean and my actions and intentions were far from honorable...but God was there and met me without criticism of my looks or the way I might have smelled...it was my heart that was important...I don't have tattoos or body piercings...look pretty odd on an old man but where I do go to meet my God there are all sorts of folks from all walks of life and with all kinds of backgrounds...I prefer to look at principles rather than personalities.

Plate plinker
03-24-2015, 05:57 PM
You all probably wouldn't like or be comfortable in the church I go to. You are more likely to see people in blue jeans and bib overalls than you are a suit and tie, even on the preacher, but be assured GOD IS THERE! I've seen people get "in the spirit" testifying and the preacher won't even get to preach. How people look at church means NOTHING to me, it's how they act and if they humble themselves before GOD and their fellow man. I know my brand of religion doesn't suit other people, but what GOD thinks is all that matters to me.

Amen to that!

lefty o
03-24-2015, 06:07 PM
ive learned to judge a man my his behavior and demeanor, not his clothes. imo those that judge someone based off of clothes worn to church, are usually just trying to inflate their own ego. seems ive heard something about those that cast stones, and living in a glass house, cant pick exactly where....

Rhou45
03-24-2015, 06:34 PM
A large part is because the word self-dignity, or simply dignity, has been lost on our society and has been replaced by self-centered respect.

There was a time putting a suit on was not "getting dressed-up" rather a reflection of the respect one held for themselves and others. That was back in a time when people would be ashamed of themselves if they cussed in public, failed to hold a door for another person, was on welfare, or was otherwise viewed as a drain on society.

Now we have a self-centered society that gets offended, rude and belligerent if someone finds the slobish, thug-life, governmental dependent wanna-be gangsta' tattoo covered @zz hangin' outta their pants no dignity having self less than welcome for Sunday dinner. Heck you must be racist if you don't like that.

I too appreciate when people take the time to dress appropriately be it for dinner with the wife/girlfriend, Church, court, or what ever the event maybe. Heck, if one wanted to put on a suit just to go to Wal-mart to buy ammo, I would be glad to hold the door for him.

Rhou45
03-24-2015, 06:39 PM
Reading a lot of the other replies to this thread, I see a lot of reference to not judging based on clothes, but the actions of the man. I agree with that as well, but the OP's underlying theme and my point above go hand in hand. In the day when one dressed "nicer" to show respect, we had a more respectful society. We have lost a lot of that today. I too think it is reflective in how we dress publicly. I love my blues jeans, but would not wear them to places that should be shown higher respect. It is a conscience decision to "show" how much respect I have for others and the place I am attending. The vast majority of our society does not have any respect for others to show outwardly.

montana_charlie
03-24-2015, 07:13 PM
I read the two posts by Rhou45 and decided it was unneccesary to write the long post that I had planned. He said much of what I would have.

But, there is something to be said about the comments from those who 'don't care what people wear'.
They seem to feel that if a person gets dressed up, he is trying to show off.
They say that a ragged Christian is more to be admired than a well dressed thief ... and other trite comparisons like books and their covers.

One says that we might feel uncomfortable in his church because everybody is in jeans and bib overalls.

Growing up, I was exposed to 'traditions'. My peers presented those same traditions to their kids, and our Dads and Moms passed them from their parents to us. (That was four generations ... just within that single sentence.)

We were taught 'traditional things' like ...
If you needed a haircut, get 'in time for Sunday services'.
Take your 'Saturday bath'.
Put on your 'Sunday best' for church.

You showed up at church clean, clipped, and with clean shoes because you were there to enter the house of The Lord.
You went to the trouble of getting dressed up because everybody else did it, too ... it was the tradition.
To refuse to 'show some self-respect' would be to show disrespect everybody else.

Some folks would be in their suits and ties, others would be in their jeans.
But, all would be clean and in their 'Sunday best'.

We honored traditions that the community found to be important. By honoring those traditions, we also honored each other.
How many traditions do you see being honored today?

To my mind, anybody who shows up at church (or any other semi-formal social occasion) looking like a slob is a person who is so self-immersed in his own 'specialness' he has no respect for anybody ... and therefore deserves none.

CM

1johnlb
03-24-2015, 07:23 PM
Society is directly determined by the culture. Without cultivation the culture is sure to change.

Remember, Saloman and all his wives.

Hickory
03-24-2015, 07:31 PM
I didn't choose the thug life, the thug life chose me.

Now, that sounds like something I would have said 40 years ago.

Just some advice from experience: You'll either grow out of this stage in your life, or someone will beat it out of you. I had to take a lot of beatings before I "grew" out of it. Just friendly advices.

smokeywolf
03-24-2015, 08:11 PM
Very well stated Charlie.

I'll add this; some years ago I worked in one of the major motion picture film laboratories in the western U.S. It seemed like many of the technicians there had either barely made it through high school or were very well educated; not too many in between. Many who had not actively and deliberately sought to make the most of educational opportunities also seemed to be enamored of rap music, over-sized saggy britches and either very tall 4-wheel drive pickup trucks (that never went off-road) or very radically modified (chopped) Harley Davidsons. Many of these folks also favored tatoos and cheap jewelry with depictions of human skulls.

One of the "choppers" regularly seen parked in the lot had a rather expensive paint job, which was composed mostly of repeated sizes and portrayals of skulls. I finally asked one of the baggy-saggy pants boys why images of skulls had such a fascination for him (he had skull renderings on a necklace and wallet chain) and so many of his peers. His response was (paraphrasing) that it was a symbol of rebellion against traditional mores and societal standards & expectations.

I think most of the time one can tell if someone is dressed in well-worn clothing because that's all they can afford or if they are dressed slovenly because they just don't care enough to bath, comb their hair and change. I think the too lazy, don't care crowd are also purposely trying to rebel against established levels of behavior. These people want to be accepted for their poor appearance and low standards, ethics & behavior.

smokeywolf

Bzcraig
03-24-2015, 08:42 PM
The style of dress at church is a non issue for me as long as it's modest. I'll share an experience a very good friend had. My friend had a cousin who was raised in the church but at some point was deeply offended (rightly or wrongly I don't know) and stayed away from church for years. My friend and his family convinced her to come with them and she finally acquiesced and did. The summertime here can be brutal with many consecutive days of 100+ degrees. This young woman wore jeans and a spaghetti strap top to church, which was completely acceptable at this church. A very well dressed older woman who was sitting behind her, tapped her on the shoulder and said to her "that top is really not appropriate in church," not because she was exposing any cleavage, which she wasn't, simply because of the straps. You guessed it, she hasn't been back to church since. Don't get me wrong, the young lady can't point to this woman as her excuse, yet at the same time the older woman, admittedly acting in ignorance, could/should have exercised better judgement fitting a woman of her maturity.

jcwit
03-24-2015, 09:21 PM
I think Rhou45 & Montana Charlie pretty much nailed it.

mold maker
03-24-2015, 09:24 PM
I've never worn jeans to church, but have sat beside many that did. I'd much prefer to sit beside some honest sweat, than have to endure the overdone perfume of sister better than thou, in her Sunday go to meeting best....

dtknowles
03-24-2015, 09:53 PM
I don't like Coat and Ties. I wear them when I have to to show proper respect for my host but I don't like it. When I go to church I dress as best I can to fit in, not too sharp or to casual. I am glad we have relaxed our dress code at work. Was coat and tie, then shirt and tie, then ditch the tie and now polo shirt and jeans. People are still considerate and hold doors and such. Everyone says hi and thank you. We just don't have the coat and tie.

I don't see a lot of tats or piercings at work but do see some around town. I don't mind the tats and etc.

I also understand that some people put on a rebellious appearance deliberately to make a statement that the previous generations damaged our society and they want to distance themselves from the people who created what they see as a mess. I don't blame them if they see the people in suits as the problem, there is some truth in that.

Tim

Fergie
03-24-2015, 11:21 PM
In relation to church, I was saved in a church where the pastor wore jean and a flannel shirt...former heavy equipment rental company owner turned preacher. Steve Martin was his name, and he was as humble as a man could be. I don't put too much in to how folks dress at church.

However, I do think that most folks dress immodestly in general. Women and men alike, be it cleavage, leg, sagged trousers or tank tops. Me personally, I'm heavily tattooed, but none are visible unless a t-shirt has shorter-than-normal sleeves on it.

There is a running joke/understanding in our family and cohort in general, that the rudest people out there are older white males...usually 50 or older. The entitlement that so many complain about in others is manifest in them. Watch someone order a coffee at the local coffee shop...do they simply state their order without acknowledging the server, or do they return the greeting and ask politely for their drink, with a please and a thank you? That right there says a lot about folks.

Then again, I may be odd in that I've taught my kids to take their hats off when entering a building, or sitting down to eat. Heck, we stopped in a parking lot the other day as a Flag was being raised. Took the time to explain the significance to them too.

On a different, but somewhat related topic, our town has a lot of panhandlers and street people passing through. I have absolutely nothing good to say about able bodied, sound minded adults that are not willing to work for their keep. I try to explain the difference between the lazy vs the downtrodden, hopefully I'm doing it right, and mainly by my actions.

TXGunNut
03-24-2015, 11:24 PM
I dislike wearing a coat and tie but I was raised to wear both to church. I visited my dad's church several years ago and they wanted to recruit me as an usher because I "already" owned a suit. I've always kept a suit (or two) around for "marryin' or buryin' " but I don't have a problem with the "contemporary" services and they way folks dress to attend them. If casual dress helps folks find their way to church to hear the Lord's word I can live with it.
Hygiene is another matter. Soap is cheap, clean clothes and a recent bath isn't too much to ask for a church function.

FISH4BUGS
03-25-2015, 06:36 AM
Personally I would think the Good Lord would not realy care how one is dressed when they enter His house. He welcomed everyone remember.
While I certainly understand your consternation, try to uderstand it is better (I would think) that they be there to worship in dress that does not meet your approval rather than simply not be there.

Skunk1
03-25-2015, 08:29 AM
I go to the grocery store once a week on Friday. Credit card machine was slow and the lady behind me was throwing the biggest fit over the wait. Loud, rude and making a fool of herself. Dressed in very nice clothes and looked like a very polite person til she opened her mouth. I don't dress very good, tshirt/jeans/ and work boots but I try to be patient, polite and not get upset over the small stuff.

Love Life
03-25-2015, 08:40 AM
Now, that sounds like something I would have said 40 years ago.

Just some advice from experience: You'll either grow out of this stage in your life, or someone will beat it out of you. I had to take a lot of beatings before I "grew" out of it. Just friendly advices.

I grew out of that stage about 12 years ago.

On a serious note, I agree that when attending Church a person should be clean and dress their best. THEIR best. What that means to me is that they wear the best set of clothes they own.

Women should not dress like whores for church. Men should not dress like they just came from a G-Unit tryout.

A washer machine, an iron, a shower, and voila!! Church ready.

Me, I roll with slacks, button up shirt, nice shoes, and a tie. I understand the Lord takes all comers as they are, but you really should put forth the effort to not look like a soup sandwich when you attend Church. Now if there is a fricassee afterwards then I will unbutton my cuffs and roll up the sleeves so that I may more efficiently eat my chicken.

Lloyd Smale
03-25-2015, 09:22 AM
another one that doesn't put much store in what you wear to church. I see it both ways. Some who looked like the just crawled out from under a rock. Some that look like theyd be more confortable at the governors dinner banquet. I look at it this way. Some that go to church don't have the money to buy or wear nice clothes. they spend it on feeding there kids. Some have enough money to wear suits and put on airs. Theyd be better off in Gods eyes to wear jeans and give the 500 bucks they paid for that suit to one of the people in that congregation that can use it for something less vain. My wife and I go in a clean pair of jeans and a shirt. never saw one thing in the bible that said God gave points for style. God doesn't care if your clothes are clean he cares if your soul is. Its tough enough to fill the pews in churches today without making someone feel unwelcome because they don't dress as well as you. That is vanity, a sin in its self. Id bet when Jesus walked the earth he didn't tell anyone to go home and put better clothes on. I look around on sunday and see whos there in suits. Mostly its the better off people from town that are kind of snobbish anyway and just want people to see they can afford to dress like that.

My grandfather was a big shot in the mich. state police. He had governors and senators at his home for dinner and wore a suit to work every day. When he was off you see him in some old brown pants or jeans and a tshirt or sweatshirt. His best friends were a couple of old brothers that lived in a tar paper shack a couple miles out of town. I asked him once why he didn't hang around people closer to his stature when he was off. His answer was HE DID. he said he hung around all those pretentious arrogant snobs all week long and on the weekend he wanted to be with REAL people. He was the only man I knew that I can honestly say I never heard one bad word spoken against. He didn't need fancy clothes to impress anyone. He did it with his heart. Id bet his attitude got him a better place in heaven then the hypocrites I see in church with suits on. I would suggest you ask your priest to talk to them and see how that goes for you[smilie=l:

jcwit
03-25-2015, 09:43 AM
Some that go to church don't have the money to buy or wear nice clothes. they spend it on feeding there kids.

And if that is the case they are more than welcome!

But then often they sure have enough to drive a fancy car!


Some have enough money to wear suits and put on airs. Theyd be better off in Gods eyes to wear jeans and give the 500 bucks they paid for that suit to one of the people in that congregation that can use it for something less vain.

Many of those dressed in suits DO give those kind of funds.

Might check out the price on a 2 pc. suit at J.C. Penny in todays market. A very nice suit can be had for $150 bucks.


My wife and I go in a clean pair of jeans and a shirt. never saw one thing in the bible that said God gave points for style. God doesn't care if your clothes are clean he cares if your soul is.

True, but there is a WHOLE lot in the Bible about having respect for the Lord and His Holy House.


Frankly I think even this thread is about ridiculous.

Your opinion.

Now then as I wrote earlier, this isn't just about church, it's about self respect and being in public. If you notice I mentioned about showing up in court.

ascast
03-25-2015, 09:44 AM
I don't care how people dress, I'm pretty shabby most of the time, myself. Dressing up isn't why a person should be going to church. Most go because they sow their wild oats all through the week, then go to church on Sunday to pray for a crop failure.

ain't that the truth !

JonB_in_Glencoe
03-25-2015, 09:55 AM
I always look forward to the lakeside worship services that the church holds at a local campground. Bring a lawn chair...skip the suit.
:redneck:

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:00 AM
ain't that the truth !

ONE MORE TIME, Church itself is not the point, it was ONLY an EXAMPLE!

GET IT, obviously many don't!

WILCO
03-25-2015, 10:15 AM
Google it.

The real issue Jcwit writes of is "Standards". Both Personal and Societal.
Social decay is another topic to study. It really is that simple Folks.


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsbJRmWCPObsarxd_iScnBYZsMtRspL bPfENhFrugpRij6Wuj_ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2013%2F09%2F20%2Fnor man-rockwell-masterpieces-set-for-auction-block%2F&ei=s8ISVdWGCYSwggT8rYKADA&bvm=bv.89184060,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNEeWO3MS6PNgWwQNskR9Q5LBADZAg&ust=1427379235371725)

KAF
03-25-2015, 10:25 AM
I'd feel way more comfortable in a church where the folks wear real everyday clothes, like me, instead of putting on airs.........

Clay M
03-25-2015, 10:30 AM
I have been in church all my life. Started out in the nursery. I have been in very affluent churches where people threw thousand dollar checks around like so much paper.I have also served churches where many of the people didn't know where there next meal was coming from. We help them many times..

I met my wife in a church back in 1980..About twelve years later I felt the call to ministry. I knew I didn't know enough, and felt that if I was called to preach,I was also called to prepare .I entered New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and finished a Master of Divinity degree in 97. I have served three churches since that time.

Early on I decided not to wear a tie ,and to dress down so some people might feel more comfortable.
The main gist of many of the dying churches today is ,they all want their church to grow..But only on their terms.
Many are stuck in 1950.
The younger people can't relate to that.

IMO we are all there to worship God
We are all flawed people saved only by God's grace.

I hope my ideals and traditions never turned anyone away from the church, but
I am certain I made many mistakes easily on..

I am retired now. I am just tired.
My wife and daughter are both sick and I just don't feel I have the time or energy to justice to a church.

If one thought I might leave you with is,be open to all people and give them a chance.We might dress in a fancy suit, but we are all poor and wrenched inside.

I need Gods grace, just like the poorest beggar that walks the earth..
I am flawed and have my own sins too.

May God Bless You All...

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:49 AM
And if that is the case they are more than welcome!

But then often they sure have enough to drive a fancy car!



Many of those dressed in suits DO give those kind of funds.

Might check out the price on a 2 pc. suit at J.C. Penny in todays market. A very nice suit can be had for $150 bucks.



True, but there is a WHOLE lot in the Bible about having respect for the Lord and His Holy House.



Your opinion.

Now then as I wrote earlier, this isn't just about church, it's about self respect and being in public. If you notice I mentioned about showing up in court.

My question is, why do you care so much about what other people wear or do? I don't know about you, but I feel that I should worry more about bettering myself than worrying about something as trivial as someone else's appearance. I'm not perfect by any means, so I don't feel I have the right to judge anyone else for not being perfect either.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:54 AM
i have been in church al my life. Started out in the nursery. I have been in very affluent churches where people threw thousand dollar checks around like so much paper.i have also served churches where many of the people didn't know where there next meal was coming from. We help them many times..

I met my wife in a church back in 1980..about twelve years later i felt the call to ministry. I know i didn't know enough, and felt that if i was called to preach,i was also called to prepare .i entered new orleans baptist theological seminary and finished a master of divinity degree in 97. I have served three churches since that time.

Early on i decided not to wear a tie ,and to dress down so some peole might feel more comfortable.
The main gist of many of the dying churches today is ,they all want their church to grow..but only on their terms.
Many are stuck in 1950.
The younger people can't relate to that.

Imo we are all there to worship god
we are all flawed people saved only by god's grace.

I hope my ideals and traditions never turned anyone away from the church, but
i am certain i made many mistakes easily on..

I am retired now. I am just tired.
My wife and daughter are both sick and i just don't feel i have the time or energy to justice to a church.

If one thought i might leave you with is,be open to all people and give them a chance.we might dress in a fancy suit, but we are all poor and wrenched inside.

I need gods grace, just like the poorest beggar that walks the earth..
I am flawed and have my own sins too.

May god bless you all...

Amen! :)

snowwolfe
03-25-2015, 11:16 AM
This is one of the main reasons why church attendance continues to drop year after year. Church members are to judgmental of other members be it how they dress, what party they belong to, who they socialize with, race, etc.
Churches and their members are often their own worse enemy's when it comes to bolstering there own attendance.

shooterg
03-25-2015, 11:26 AM
Suppose some longhaired bearded guy came to church in the same robe he'd had on yesterday at his carpentry job ? Reckon he'd be OK ?

bhn22
03-25-2015, 11:33 AM
Material possessions and "toys" have supplanted personal dignity and responsibility. As a nation, we have already been effectively divided, and now we're ready to be conquered.

The collective good is dead now. It's been replaced by the age of entitlement.

Clay M
03-25-2015, 11:47 AM
Material possessions and "toys" have supplanted personal dignity and responsibility. As a nation, we have already been effectively divided, and now we're ready to be conquered.

The collective good is dead now. It's been replaced by the age of entitlement.

Throughout history every empire on earth rises and falls..
We are an empire in decline..for many reasons..

Clay M
03-25-2015, 12:12 PM
Maybe I will have to opportunity to pastor a church again someday.
It is all I know, and I would never say No to God...
I am just tired and discouraged right now..

DR Owl Creek
03-25-2015, 12:56 PM
Lots of interesting responses so far. I must admit that it's not quite what I expected either. Maybe I live in a different world though. I didn't mean to be picking on just the people with raggedy jeans, and tats & piercings. I wear some raggedy looking jeans quite often, and I haven't worn a suit and tie since my daughter's wedding either. I wear what I like and I don't care what anybody else thinks about it.

More often than not, however, it's not just the guys you see today who look like they haven't bathed or combed their hair in days. The young "ladies" out there are often much worse than some of the guys. Not just in the way they look, but in the way they talk too. I think this is because of the way they were raised. They don't seem to respect anything; not themselves, or anyone else either. I've often been in check-out lines in various stores, and these young ladies are in line with their offspring and EBT cards. They're usually the ones that are the most loud, rude, and use such crude language that it would even make a drunken Marine embarrassed to be there. I've even said something to some of them on occasion when there other people with small children around.

I've worked in the construction industry for quite awhile. I can't tell you how many times I've listened to somebody's sob story who was down and out, and tried to help them out by giving them a job. They're most likely going to be the ones with tats and piercings, but no teeth or a driver's license. They're most likely to be the ones with little or no job skills to offer. They're most likely to be the ones who hit you up for an advance on their pay, and then don't show up again. They're also most likely to be the ones to steal your tools and equipment too.

I've never seen a well dressed lady steal a $5.00 bill from a church collection plate. I have been in a situation, however, where one of these guys with the tats and piercings wanted to go inside a customer's house to use the rest room, and then stole prescription meds from the customer's medicine cabinet while in there. I have also been in a situation where a police car stopped in front of the job site one day, and the only guy to start running down the street was the one guy with the tats and piercings. This isn't unusual. It's normal with them, at least in my experience over the years.

You can say it isn't right to judge a book by it's cover. You're probably right about that. It may not be fair to lump everyone together based on their appearance. There's also another old saying, however, that I think applies too: If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. If you ignore that, you're also the one who gets burned.


Dave

freebullet
03-25-2015, 01:21 PM
We will all be judged but it's not your judgment that concerns me.

DR Owl Creek
03-25-2015, 01:33 PM
We will all be judged but it's not your judgment that concerns me.


Good point. I was just trying to pass along my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

Dave

Clay M
03-25-2015, 01:48 PM
On the other hand I had one really ragged guy who was a trouble maker..
He came there only to chase a young lady that was there.She was repulsed by him, but that didn't stop him.He was also a know it all ,and would try to correct everyone with his bad theology..I found out later he had be thrown out of three other churches..I tried to be kind and Christian to him, but he was hurting the worship experience for the other members so he had to go...

jcwit
03-25-2015, 02:17 PM
I wear what I like and I don't care what anybody else thinks about it.

No offense ment towards you personally, but frankly that is the crux of the problem, not caring what anyone else thinks, only caring about oneself.

Clay M
03-25-2015, 02:36 PM
A lot of people of poor..Right now I don't have adequate suits to feel like I would fit in at a big church..Especially the church I grew up in..I don't have $1000 right now to buy a new suit..My family is sick and they need the money..
So I stay home..

Bored1
03-25-2015, 03:24 PM
I haven't attended church in a very long time, mostly due to opinions like some of those expressed here. I went through some pretty rough periods about 10 yrs ago that of course were self induced and damn near killed me on several occasions. Also spent a significant time being homeless. And when I needed and tried to find god in a few churches I received the negative attitudes of others in church instead. I was all of the ideas mentioned and much worse, doing a fine job of destroying everything. These experiences have lead me to avoid churches like the plague, and to this day I will not go unless I absolutely have too, for instance when my grandmother that I was very close with passed, I had to attend the service because her life was the church as long as I can remember.

I will continue to leave church and that establishment to those that care about how you look, and will continue my own relationship with God as I see it without the judgement of others.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 03:39 PM
I haven't attended church in a very long time, mostly due to opinions like some of those expressed here. I went through some pretty rough periods about 10 yrs ago that of course were self induced and damn near killed me on several occasions. Also spent a significant time being homeless. And when I needed and tried to find god in a few churches I received the negative attitudes of others in church instead. I was all of the ideas mentioned and much worse, doing a fine job of destroying everything. These experiences have lead me to avoid churches like the plague, and to this day I will not go unless I absolutely have too, for instance when my grandmother that I was very close with passed, I had to attend the service because her life was the church as long as I can remember.

I will continue to leave church and that establishment to those that care about how you look, and will continue my own relationship with God as I see it without the judgement of others.

Way unexcusable by they, your Sunday best is just that, your best.

But flip flops, no socks, "T" or sweat shirt with the sleeves torn off, and cut off jeans is far, far from anyones "Sunday" best.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 03:40 PM
A lot of people of poor..Right now I don't have adequate suits to feel like I would fit in at a big church..Especially the church I grew up in..I don't have $1000 right now to buy a new suit..My family is sick and they need the money..
So I stay home..

See my post #66.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 03:45 PM
Just attended a Board of Directors meeting last evening about raising our club dues to cover fixed expenses.

Members are complaining about a $20 dollar increase over existing dues that have stayed the dame for the last 15 years that I know of, while the same members show up with a new $2000 match pistol to use in competition.

Can anyone say "priorities"?

Bored1
03-25-2015, 03:49 PM
Way unexcusable by they, your Sunday best is just that, your best.

But flip flops, no socks, "T" or sweat shirt with the sleeves torn off, and cut off jeans is far, far from anyones "Sunday" best.

That's the point. No one knows what someone else's "best" is. There was a time I would've been ecstatic to have jeans with or without holes and any form of footwear sandals included.

In my opinion, that's the type of crowd that should not only be welcomed in a church but sought out to offer assistance too! But being as I choose not to participate in a church, those that do can do so however they wish. Just expressing my opinion, and it may just be worth what Ya paid for it.

I have a feeling we will all hear the answer before all is said and done.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 03:52 PM
And once again, why are only focusing on Churches?????????????????????????????????????

jcwit
03-25-2015, 03:54 PM
That's the point. No one knows what someone else's "best" is. There was a time I would've been ecstatic to have jeans with or without holes and any form of footwear sandals included.



For Heavens sake, just what did you wear????????????

What did you live in????????????????

Did you own a vehicle??????????????

What pray tell did you eat??????????????

Bored1
03-25-2015, 03:56 PM
Probably because that is what everyone in the thread has some sort of opinion on and what the majority of the posts have been directed towards.

Just a guess though.


Why all the question marks??????? If I do that does it make my point clearer??????????????

Bored1
03-25-2015, 04:16 PM
???????????????????????? (Couldnt resist)

No car, didn't eat or wear much, mostly what others felt was appropriate to throw away. Didn't really "live" anywhere, main part of the whole homeless thing. Lucky for me there was a rather large apartment complex that was condemned downtown that the authorities looked the other way if undesirables happened to congregate there occasionally when it was too cold to sleep in a park or alley.

Think I can get the hang of the extra punctuation...................

freebullet
03-25-2015, 04:22 PM
Good point. I was just trying to pass along my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

Dave

No harm no foul that's all I was doing as well. Your leading by example may net you results you want. I just try not to prejudge folks based on appearance when I can help it, not saying you are -but that it's easy to do.

I would look like an 1800's mountain man if I didn't need to maintain a professional appearance for my business. I would consider it my best could I afford to live it, really wouldn't give 2 bits if I met someone else's standard.
That is the very essence of American individualism. Not that you don't care about others, moreover that you will not be spoon fed what they want for you.

Clay M
03-25-2015, 04:32 PM
Ultimately it is what is in a mans heart that counts..
Not some magic incantation that one recites or how may times they have been baptized.Or what fancy cloths they wear.
I have known great Christians who were rich, and many that were also poor..
When I serve a church all people know that they are welcome there.
The needs or the older and younger people must both be addressed..
I have never want to serve a church that was just a social club..
It must be more..it has to be life changing and fun or I won't be a part of it.
I have never tried to manipulate people for money either..
I have been poor at most of the churches I have served..
I didn't go there for money..They paid me what they could..

mdr8088
03-25-2015, 04:38 PM
My dad always said, "Some people expect you to wipe their butts and pay for the TP." I think he was referring to politicians?

jcwit
03-25-2015, 04:44 PM
Probably because that is what everyone in the thread has some sort of opinion on and what the majority of the posts have been directed towards.

Just a guess though.


Why all the question marks??????? If I do that does it make my point clearer??????????????

Have no idea how to post or find them, but not too long ago I saw pictures of folks leaving the dust bowl area after losing everything they owned, and I've seen pictures of the men standing in lines for a helping at the soup kitchens during the depression.

By and large these people were dressed much better than todays folks going out in public, Church or not..........................................

Whats the problem with multiple question marks???????????????????

And once again, its not about church, why is that so hard to comprehend???????????????????????????????????????? ??????

Clay M
03-25-2015, 04:52 PM
Well it started about church and clothing..That happens to be one of my pet peeves,
however I will stop now..
I violated one of my own set rules for the forum.
No Politics and no Religious talk.
Sorry,
Clay M

jcwit
03-25-2015, 04:59 PM
Well, I'm all dressed up for Wed. nite, Lenten service. Brown leather shoes, black socks, Dockers, white T shirt, and heavy brown flannel shirt. Got a little smell good sprayed on myself, maybe I'll impress a few of the old ladies or maybe my wife as well!

I'm positive the Lord cares less.

smokeywolf
03-25-2015, 05:00 PM
I don't think the point is how fancy or upscale you dress. The point is showing up and looking like you care about your appearance. If all you have to wear are holy (no pun intended) jeans, sew some patches over the holes, wash them and wear those, along with your best freshly laundered faded flannel shirt.
I have been so broke I couldn't afford a new t-shirt; forget a new pair of jeans. The point in dressing for church is not how fancy you can look. It is also not to show your individualism or disdain for "the establishment". Dressing for church is one of several efforts (including bathing) one should make to show a small amount of dedication and respect for their God, their faith and their fellow parishioners. It is not too much to expect your body and clothing to be clean when you go to get some spiritual cleansing.

I attend church very infrequently. I like to do my praying in my workshop, in the car or out in nature. I've never felt closer to the All Mighty than when I've been out on horseback, far from others. When I think of "God's House", I don't think of a man made building; I think of that which God built, nature.

smokeywolf

dtknowles
03-25-2015, 05:03 PM
Have no idea how to post or find them, but not too long ago I saw pictures of folks leaving the dust bowl area after losing everything they owned, and I've seen pictures of the men standing in lines for a helping at the soup kitchens during the depression.

By and large these people were dressed much better than todays folks going out in public, Church or not..........................................

Whats the problem with multiple question marks???????????????????

And once again, its not about church, why is that so hard to comprehend???????????????????????????????????????? ??????

I posted about how the dress where I would has change over the decades from coat and tie to jeans and polo shirt. I don't see that as turning into a slob. The coat and tie was just stupid for what we did. Still might put on a dress shirt, tie and dockers for big meeting. Might wear a coat if it is cold (only once in a blue moon here).

If I am working in the yard or on projects and need to run to the store I don't change into clean clothes, I just go in the dirty jeans and tee shirt that I was working in. I have many nice clothes but they mostly stay in the closet. My dress shoes are 25 years old.

I am as likely to look like a slob as some of the people you might be talking about, I don't shave most weekends and do get dirty but I do wash before bed so if you see me in the afternoon you probably think I am a slob and I have probably worked up a sweat. Really who are you complaining about? If I am at the range I probably have on holey jeans and a tee shirt and ball cap.

Tim

Bored1
03-25-2015, 05:03 PM
Clay, no need for you to apologize to anyone for what was said in the thread. Personally, I thank you for your words and opinion, brought up some good points for me to ponder. Had been thinking about a local church the last few weeks, but couldn't bring myself to make a decision. This threads origins had me running away again, after your words and those of others I will think on the matter some more. Seems ironic that I always say you can't group everyone black or Mexican together but I do the same with people and church?

Anyways, jcwit, I have no problem with question marks, wish my phone would let me type 18k at once but it won't. So much for being a "smart phone" haahahah

Ps. ? ??????????????????????

Clay M
03-25-2015, 05:08 PM
Clay, no need for you to apologize to anyone for what was said in the thread. Personally, I thank you for your words and opinion, brought up some good points for me to ponder. Had been thinking about a local church the last few weeks, but couldn't bring myself to make a decision. This threads origins had me running away again, after your words and those of others I will think on the matter some more. Seems ironic that I always say you can't group everyone black or Mexican together but I do the same with people and church?

Anyways, jcwit, I have no problem with question marks, wish my phone would let me type 18k at once but it won't. So much for being a "smart phone" haahahah

Ps. ? ??????????????????????

Thanks You my friend..I always try to shoot straight with people.They may not always like what I have to say,but I do my best to be honest and straight forward..What you see,is what you get..
Good luck and don't give up on the Lord..I need to hear these words myself sometimes..

smokeywolf
03-25-2015, 05:10 PM
Well it started about church and clothing..That happens to be one of my pet peeves,
however I will stop now..
I violated one of my own set rules for the forum.
No Politics and no Religious talk.
Sorry,
Clay M

When it comes to religious discussion, it is folks like you and Char-Gar to whom I pay particular attention. In fact, Charles is conspicuous by his absence here.

In spite of the fact that many political and religious threads are more subjective than fact based, these discussions are about learning. Who better to learn from than one who has committed a substantial portion of their life to the subject.

smokeywolf

Bored1
03-25-2015, 05:11 PM
Didn't give up on Him, just the establishment of church.

God in my opinion (higher powered whatever your comfortable saying) is everywhere, from the beauty of a flying hawk to the kindness of a kindergarten teacher. Just take a breath and look.

Anyways enough on church. I just realized I don't think I even own a suit that fits lol. Don't really need one, generally a pair of khakis and polo or button up will cover my needs. Have to wear scrubs to work everyday anyways.

Clay M
03-25-2015, 05:44 PM
Didn't give up on Him, just the establishment of church.

God in my opinion (higher powered whatever your comfortable saying) is everywhere, from the beauty of a flying hawk to the kindness of a kindergarten teacher. Just take a breath and look.

Anyways enough on church. I just realized I don't think I even own a suit that fits lol. Don't really need one, generally a pair of khakis and polo or button up will cover my needs. Have to wear scrubs to work everyday anyways.

I agree I don't really like organized religion all that much.
I am just tired and old and wish to be left alone..to finish out my life in peace..
My concepts and beliefs have evolved greatly over many years..Most people couldn't deal with what I believe..
By the way, I am well read ,in both science,and theology..
But I believe in God,and His Grace and His Love..

Those are the important thing I took away from my seminary education..Those are the things that stuck,and those are the things that matter..
I love the story of the Prodigal Son , the father is the image of God.. longing for the son to come home..
God loving the son no matter how bad things seem..

That is my image of God..and your image of God matters more than whether you believe in God or not.

I am discouraged..My wife and daughter are very sick.
I would like to sever one more church before I die.
If that is God's will,and maybe I won't make as many mistakes this time..

HarryT
03-25-2015, 06:23 PM
Once there was a very poor family that attended the local Baptist Church. They were ashamed of their thread bare clothing and always sat in the back. One day the pastor got donations to buy the family brand new "Sunday clothes" and delivered them to the poor family. The next Sunday the front pew was left vacant for the family so everyone could see them in their new clothes. The pastor held up the service for almost an hour but the poor family never showed up. After church the pastor went to the family's home to see if something was wrong. He found them sitting on the front porch in their fine new clothes and ask why they didn't come to church. The father replied: "We had such fine clothes, we decided to go the the Episcopal Church".

Lloyd Smale
03-25-2015, 07:06 PM
Suppose some longhaired bearded guy came to church in the same robe he'd had on yesterday at his carpentry job ? Reckon he'd be OK ?


This is one of the main reasons why church attendance continues to drop year after year. Church members are to judgmental of other members be it how they dress, what party they belong to, who they socialize with, race, etc.
Churches and their members are often their own worse enemy's when it comes to bolstering there own attendance.

I like these two posts

JSnover
03-25-2015, 07:34 PM
Most of the style-challenged members of my church were in their 20s. The young men looked like they just rolled in from a street corner or pool hall. The young women dressed like prostitutes. Within their age group they were in the minority but not by much. "Well," I thought, "at least they're here. Maybe they'll upgrade their church wardrobe as they mature."

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 08:37 PM
Way unexcusable by they, your Sunday best is just that, your best.

But flip flops, no socks, "T" or sweat shirt with the sleeves torn off, and cut off jeans is far, far from anyones "Sunday" best.

I think you missed his point. The clothes aren't the problem. It's the self righteous people who look down on others based solely on what someone wears. That's shameful and unchristian like.

Clay M
03-25-2015, 08:39 PM
I think you missed his point. The clothes aren't the problem. It's the self righteous people who look down on others based solely on what someone wears. That's shameful and unchristian like.

And exactly why I will never go back to the churches I grew up in.
My sole worth in land is probably worth more than most of them..
but I don't like classism or snobbery.
God loves poor people the same as the rich..
This is addressed many times in the New Testament
I grew up hard.. I know what it is like to be both poor as well as rich..

dragon813gt
03-25-2015, 09:06 PM
Imagine that, old people complaining about young people. No point in saying how they dress because the complaints are about everything they do. The old complaining about the young is the way the world works. Just like the gout complaining about the old and their old ways. The sooner you both get off the moral high horse the better things will be.

If you judge a man based on how he dresses you are a fool. If you judge a man based on his actions you are wise. If you expect everyone to live up to your standards you're just an......

dtknowles
03-25-2015, 09:45 PM
I grew up very lucky. Lower middle class in a rural area. Always had nice clothes, plenty of food. Nice toys but best of all good jobs working on farms, cutting neighbors grass and delivering newspapers. Hunting, fishing, exploring. I was almost always in ragidity clothes but good footwear. I always had good clean clothes for school and church but after church or school I would change into work or play clothes. I had to go to church in play clothes once because it was a Holy Day that snuck up on my Mom and I did not have time to change.

I guess my point is don't judge people by their clothes.

You have to be careful judging young women by their skimpy clothes. At least around here almost all of them from young teens to 30 somethings wear as little as you can imagine. It get very hot and humid in the summer and I really think they dress like they do for comfort not to be slutty. They are not really immodest they have just grown up with the image that only so much needs to be covered. After living in Florida beach side communities, you get used to seeing a lot of skin.

Tim

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:02 PM
I posted about how the dress where I would has change over the decades from coat and tie to jeans and polo shirt. I don't see that as turning into a slob. The coat and tie was just stupid for what we did. Still might put on a dress shirt, tie and dockers for big meeting. Might wear a coat if it is cold (only once in a blue moon here).

If I am working in the yard or on projects and need to run to the store I don't change into clean clothes, I just go in the dirty jeans and tee shirt that I was working in. I have many nice clothes but they mostly stay in the closet. My dress shoes are 25 years old.

I am as likely to look like a slob as some of the people you might be talking about, I don't shave most weekends and do get dirty but I do wash before bed so if you see me in the afternoon you probably think I am a slob and I have probably worked up a sweat. Really who are you complaining about? If I am at the range I probably have on holey jeans and a tee shirt and ball cap.

Tim

Your thoughts on what I think of you and how you dress is pure speculation at best.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:05 PM
I like these two posts

Did not the Lord say to respect the House of the Lord?

Or didn't he REALLY mean it.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:11 PM
I have a funeral detail this Saturday for a Vet. that passed away.

Our Legion Dress Code for our Honor Guard is Black shoes, Black socks, Black pants, Black belt, White shirt, with Tie.

Guess I'll wear black flip flops, with black socks with holes, worn out black cut off jeans, white "T" shirt with a black string tie that says U.S. on it.

After all it's still me!

Alvarez Kelly
03-25-2015, 10:14 PM
Pompous. Once again.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:14 PM
Did not the Lord say to respect the House of the Lord?

Or didn't he REALLY mean it.

The Lord said he looks at a man's heart, not his appearance.

What you consider disrespectful is different from what the Lord may consider disrespectful.

1johnlb
03-25-2015, 10:16 PM
Did not the Lord say to respect the House of the Lord?

Or didn't he REALLY mean it.

Which verse is that?

Jesus went in turning over tables, throwing stuff around and said My Fathers house is a house of prayers and you make it a den of thieves.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:20 PM
Which verse is that?

Jesus went in turning over tables, throwing stuff around and said My Fathers house is a house of prayers and you make it a den of thieves.

Here you go.

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/19-30.htm

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:21 PM
What you consider disrespectful is different from what the Lord may consider disrespectful.

Could that also not read: What you consider respectful is different from what the Lord may consider respectful.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:22 PM
Pompous. Once again.

Your opinion! Such as it is.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:24 PM
Pompous. Once again.

Just bringing out a point, if you wish to consider it pompous, so be it, I really could care less as to what you wish.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:29 PM
Here you go.

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/19-30.htm

I seriously doubt he was referring to something like clothing.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:33 PM
Could that also not read: What you consider respectful is different from what the Lord may consider respectful.

You seem to have edited out some of my text. Let me repeat it, and do try to listen for once.

1 Samuel 16:7

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

1911cherry
03-25-2015, 10:38 PM
Suppose some longhaired bearded guy came to church in the same robe he'd had on yesterday at his carpentry job ? Reckon he'd be OK ?

Yeah I think he would be welcomed into a church by anyone there for the right reason.

Some of my earliest memories are of a lady who used to watch me at my Grandmothers church, she was a small ,delicate ,loving woman, with a church daycare full of children of all races and classes, I remember her clothes were ragged but she was what a church is all about, she was the embodiment of the Christian spirit.

Later on in life I did my praying with some Army Chaplins , they don't care what you wear they are just happy to see you. Giving mass or any service is favorable to reading last rites.

My little girls went to service tonight in their school clothes while I was out tending to my cows, I was wearing shorts and my work shirt. I wouldn't wear a dirty mechanics shirt to church, but if I did our preacher would say - come on in we saved you a seat.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 10:38 PM
While we're at it, let's review the Bible some shall we?

1 Peter 3:3-4 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+3%3A3-4&version=ESV) Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.


Luke 12:22-23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12%3A22-23&version=ESV) And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.


Matthew 6:19-21 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A19-21&version=ESV) “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 23:28 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23%3A28&version=ESV) So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

1johnlb
03-25-2015, 10:48 PM
Jcwitt, I am definitely not trying to argue your point of humbling ourselves before the Lord and submitting to Him and His word in old or new testament. Leviticus is law and no man was or is able to keep the law. This is the reason Jesus came. We no longer live according to the law but by faith.
If you having been delivered from the law return again to the law than your faith is void.
There are those who need Grace until they come to the revelation of Christ.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:51 PM
You seem to have edited out some of my text. Let me repeat it, and do try to listen for once.

1 Samuel 16:7

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
This is your actual quote, not the above.


The Lord said he looks at a man's heart, not his appearance.

What you consider disrespectful is different from what the Lord may consider disrespectful.

I this your own translation?

Yell all you wish.

RoyEllis
03-25-2015, 10:54 PM
texaswoodworker, I think you're wasting your breath here.....proverbs 29:9

1johnlb
03-25-2015, 10:56 PM
Look at the Christians there at it again!:veryconfu:veryconfu

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:56 PM
As I've posted more than a couple of times, this not only has to do with Church, it has to do with all aspect of our life today. Rationalize it all you wish, it is a fact. Check out the folks shopping in todays big box store.

All the while little bobby runs down the street with his butt crack showing.

Alvarez Kelly
03-25-2015, 10:59 PM
All caps would be yelling.

Pompous. There is no discussion with wit. No facts will change a man who is always right.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 10:59 PM
texaswoodworker, I think you're wasting your breath here.....proverbs 29:9

So you judge me as a fool?

Who are you to judge?

jcwit
03-25-2015, 11:01 PM
All caps would be yelling.

Pompous. There is no discussion with wit. No facts will change a man who is always right.

Am I not entitled to my opinion?

Or just you!

RoyEllis
03-25-2015, 11:08 PM
So you judge me as a fool?

Who are you to judge?

Did my post mention you by name anywhere in it? Well? Did I?
I judge no man, nor do I claim the right to judge, you are the one who took ownership of the "fool" title, I didn't place it on you.

1johnlb
03-25-2015, 11:09 PM
We are a product of our surroundings, sad but true. Remember the old saying, you are what you eat. Main stream media is setting the pace of this society and we're all at fault.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 11:19 PM
Did my post mention you by name anywhere in it? Well? Did I?
I judge no man, nor do I claim the right to judge, you are the one who took ownership of the "fool" title, I didn't place it on you.

You sir implied it, fact!

Read the verse you posted, does it not mention "foolish" which implies that one is a "fool", which again you implied.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 11:20 PM
We are a product of our surroundings, sad but true. Remember the old saying, you are what you eat. Main stream media is setting the pace of this society and we're all at fault.

Very true, and by me bringing it out I'm hammered.

So be it.

jcwit
03-25-2015, 11:21 PM
Very true, and by me bringing it out I'm hammered.

So be it.

Oh wait, that's right, I'm pompous!

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 11:24 PM
Who are you to judge?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Coming from you, that's funny.

Just what have you've been doing throughout this entire thread if not judging people? Your judging them based on what they wear.

texaswoodworker
03-25-2015, 11:29 PM
This is your actual quote, not the above.



I this your own translation?

Yell all you wish.

Do they not say the same thing?

Oh, AND THIS IS YELLING! WHAT I DID ABOVE WAS NOT YELLING! I WAS MAKING SURE YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE IMPORTANT PART OF MY POST WAS SINCE YOU SEEM TO LIKE TO PICK AND CHOOSE PARTS OF PEOPLE'S POSTS!

RoyEllis
03-25-2015, 11:44 PM
You sir implied it, fact!

Read the verse you posted, does it not mention "foolish" which implies that one is a "fool", which again you implied.

And I ask you yet AGAIN, did I mention YOU by name? No, I did not. Fact. You assumed I was referencing you, which presumes facts not in evidence....objection over-ruled. I haven't need of reading the verse I quoted, I know precisely what is written there, just as well as I know what is written in Proverbs 14:7, and many other passages that I've utilized in object lessons to my own children in the past, Proverbs 29:17 is a parents comfort.

TXGunNut
03-26-2015, 12:09 AM
I was going to post something about the way folks dressed to apply for jobs but I think this thread is too far gone for that.
Nevermind.

Lloyd Smale
03-26-2015, 05:42 AM
he also said to love all of his people. the rich, the poor, black, white, clean, dirty, shaven, unshaven. Like a posted before, show me a priest or minister that will show someone the door or even tell someone that they should dress better for services and ill eat crow. Until then how can you possibly think you have the right to do the same. Maybe what you should do is slip those people you feel are under dressed a envelope with a 100 bucks in it and a note telling them that YOU would like to see them dressed better next sunday. Maybe YOU should offer to take them down to the nearest place that sell suits and buy them one. Obviously you can afford to. I think that is what Jesus would want you to do not criticize his other children or think your somehow better then the man sitting next to you in church. Its you that's not respecting the true meaning of your religion not me. His house is open to ANYONE not just the people who wear nice clothes. If you read you bible youd know that Jesus didn't run around helping the wealthy and the smartly dressed people of the day. He certainly didn't have a dress code his followers had to go by. He helped the poor, the sick the dirty people on the street. He told the rich that if they had two sets of clothes they should give one to a poor person. Nope sorry my friend but if your catholic ANYONE is allowed in your service be they black, white, red, clean, dirty, rich, pour, clean, dirty, homosexual, heterosexual, republican, democratic, communist. GOD judges, NOT YOU [smilie=s:
Did not the Lord say to respect the House of the Lord?

Or didn't he REALLY mean it.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 06:08 AM
he also said to love all of his people. the rich, the poor, black, white, clean, dirty, shaven, unshaven. Like a posted before, show me a priest or minister that will show someone the door or even tell someone that they should dress better for services and ill eat crow. Until then how can you possibly think you have the right to do the same. Maybe what you should do is slip those people you feel are under dressed a envelope with a 100 bucks in it and a note telling them that YOU would like to see them dressed better next sunday. Maybe YOU should offer to take them down to the nearest place that sell suits and buy them one. Obviously you can afford to. I think that is what Jesus would want you to do not criticize his other children or think your somehow better then the man sitting next to you in church. Its you that's not respecting the true meaning of your religion not me. His house is open to ANYONE not just the people who wear nice clothes. If you read you bible youd know that Jesus didn't run around helping the wealthy and the smartly dressed people of the day. He certainly didn't have a dress code his followers had to go by. He helped the poor, the sick the dirty people on the street. He told the rich that if they had two sets of clothes they should give one to a poor person. Nope sorry my friend but if your catholic ANYONE is allowed in your service be they black, white, red, clean, dirty, rich, pour, clean, dirty, homosexual, heterosexual, republican, democratic, communist. GOD judges, NOT YOU [smilie=s:

Amen to that! It's not just Catholics either. I'm a Southern Baptist and have also been to a few Methodist churches around here. Most of the people in those churches embraced the "come as you are" thing and treated you like family from day one. They didn't look down on you for what you wore. That's how true Christians treat people.

1johnlb
03-26-2015, 07:10 AM
Romans 14 New International Version (NIV)The Weak and the Strong


14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.


5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.


10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:


“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]


12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.


13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking,but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.


19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.


22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubtsis condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c]

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:13 AM
And so the decline of our society continues with the blessings of the people. The hidden face of liberalism at its best.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:18 AM
Impossible to even get you folks off the religion aspect and on to the way folks are just out in public, but go ahead and tell me how good you all are.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:23 AM
And I ask you yet AGAIN, did I mention YOU by name? No, I did not. Fact. You assumed I was referencing you, which presumes facts not in evidence....objection over-ruled. I haven't need of reading the verse I quoted, I know precisely what is written there, just as well as I know what is written in Proverbs 14:7, and many other passages that I've utilized in object lessons to my own children in the past, Proverbs 29:17 is a parents comfort.
And again I say you implied, guess you cannot comprehend that aspect. But it is what it is. You do not point your finger, but you fling the insult with words.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 08:27 AM
And so the decline of our society continues with the blessings of the people. The hidden face of liberalism at its best.

Oh, here we go. The thread's not going the way you want it to, so your just going to throw a fit and start calling people liberals. Despite the fact that this thread has NOTHING to do with politics and the arguments being made here are being made from the Bible.

Go reread 1johnlb's post.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:34 AM
One has only to look at the picture Duchman posted in another thread to see what my op post was all about.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:36 AM
Oh, here we go. The thread's not going the way you want it to, so your just going to throw a fit and start calling people liberals. Despite the fact that this thread has NOTHING to do with politics and the arguments being made here are being made from the Bible.

Go reread 1johnlb's post.
Oh but it does.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 08:36 AM
One has only to look at the picture Duchman posted in another thread to see what my op post was all about.

And one only has to read the bible to see that judging people based on what they wear is wrong and unchristian like.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 08:37 AM
Oh but it does.

No, it doesn't. Your doing the old trick that liberals do. If they are losing an argument, they scream racist. You scream liberal.

nagantguy
03-26-2015, 08:37 AM
You all probably wouldn't like or be comfortable in the church I go to. You are more likely to see people in blue jeans and bib overalls than you are a suit and tie, even on the preacher, but be assured GOD IS THERE! I've seen people get "in the spirit" testifying and the preacher won't even get to preach. How people look at church means NOTHING to me, it's how they act and if they humble themselves before GOD and their fellow man. I know my brand of religion doesn't suit other people, but what GOD thinks is all that matters to me.

Well said, well though out and true. When as a young adult I had my tire come to Jesus moment, I hadn't slept much nor showered in two days and was totting around a huge bundle of sin and shame, don't even think He noticed, He Just took it away and gave me the strength I asked for.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 08:48 AM
And so it continues.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 08:54 AM
Romans 2:1-11

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 09:00 AM
The respect to others and to oneself is even lacking here. Guess I judged that didn't I.

Clay M
03-26-2015, 09:07 AM
I just find it ironic and very wrong when I think of going back to the local big churches I grew up in, and I need to go spend about $2000 with the tailor to be a member of the Lord's Club..but this is the case..

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 09:08 AM
The respect to others and to oneself is even lacking here. Guess I judged that didn't I.

You don't handle disagreement well do you? Maybe it is lacking a bit. I found your post implying that many of us were liberals for simply following what the Bible says pretty disrespectful.

Clay M
03-26-2015, 09:18 AM
Some of the most brilliant men I have ever known as pastors, and teachers were pretty liberal theologically. Legalism is a disease that imprisons people.

God's Love and Grace sets them free.. Although I was educated in their school, I am not Southern Baptist..
The greatest thing I got from my education is I can no longer be manipulated by men..

jcwit
03-26-2015, 09:30 AM
Posts #29, 30, & 31, nailed my thoughts.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 09:32 AM
And posts 25, 125, and 127 nailed my thoughts.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 09:48 AM
From elsewhere

Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society.

Aristotle

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 09:57 AM
Let's see, who do we want to listen to? Some Greek philosopher who has been dead for 2300 years, or God?

Hmm, tough choice. :rolleyes:

Clay M
03-26-2015, 10:04 AM
"Love the Lord you God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength,
and love your neighbor as yourself"

I guess that about sums it up...

jcwit
03-26-2015, 10:15 AM
"Love the Lord you God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength,
and love your neighbor as yourself"

I guess that about sums it up...

and with that love I shall show respect!

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 10:21 AM
and with that love I shall show respect!

By looking down on and judging his other children just because they don't dress how you think they should?

I think this needs repeating.


"
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?"

jmort
03-26-2015, 10:44 AM
There is no virtue in looking like a slob a church, but if one is not convicted to look presentable, that is their choice. As one teacher/preacher pointed out, at least dress to the level you would when going out on a first date. Either way, it is a personal choice. Once again, the crude ignorance about judgment is back. Christians are directed to judge the behavior of members of their church. Help them get it right and if they refuse to work on it expel them from Church. That is an order. Christian are not to judge sinner men and women, that is an order as well.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 10:49 AM
Your arguing with direct bible quotes. I believe that we are not to judge anyone since that is what the bible says, and that seems to be the general consensus for most in this thread.

Clay M
03-26-2015, 10:58 AM
If someone comes into a church with factions,dissention or bad theology then that must be judged and dealt with....
My guess is that most people dress poorly for lack of money or funds to do any better..
I am sure most would gladly wear a three piece suit if they could afford one..
I choose not to wear one , because I don't want to offend ,divide, or make someone less fortunate feel bad..
It is OK to dress up for Church if that is what you like to do, my suggest is not to look down on others who may not be able to afford that luxury.
Understand everyone doesn't come from the same background, socioeconomic level or education..That doesn't make them less valuable in the eyes of God..

dtknowles
03-26-2015, 11:02 AM
.....................Christians are directed to judge the behavior of members of their church. Help them get it right and if they refuse to work on it expel them from Church. That is an order. Christian are not to judge sinner men and women, that is an order as well.

How are we to judge the behavior of members, against what standard? Which behaviors should get members expelled? Are we talking about something other than the 10 commandments? Would you kick someone out of the Church for wearing an Obama campaign button?

Tim

jmort
03-26-2015, 11:04 AM
"I believe that we are not to judge anyone since that is what the bible says, and that seems to be the general consensus for most in this thread."

No, that is not what the Bible says. If one takes the time to read the Bible, you will see that immoral people, who refuse to change their behavior, are to be kicked out of Church. Christians are ordered not to judge sinner men and women.

jmort
03-26-2015, 11:09 AM
"Which behaviors should get members expelled?"


There are a few that are listed specifically, persons dedicated to adultery, fornication, faggotry, theft, etc.

jmort
03-26-2015, 11:11 AM
"Would you kick someone out of the Church for wearing an Obama campaign button?"

No, but liberals typically love their religion of abortion more than anything and are rightly to be excluded from communion in the Catholic Church. Like the Bishops who deemed that trash like Pelosi should step away from the alter. The Catholic Church rightly advises its member not to vote for politicians dedicated to abortion.

bear67
03-26-2015, 11:17 AM
I go to a small country circuit church and although most don't wear suits anymore, dress is reasonable. I don't judge folks by their dress, but do believe that if you respect yourself, your appearance is a reflection on you and your parents. I had rather have kids in church in jeans and tee shirts than not at all--just not offensive logos and too much skin showing through the holes in the jeans.

I do not like how many of the younger generations dress as they show much more than I think neccessary--is it a self respect issue or just "fitting" in. I can only count my blessings that my daughters and grand daughters dress modestly and still appear appealing. I can not change this behavior, so I just let it slide off my back like water off a duck's back.

But a real pet peeve if not giving proper respect to the flag and national anthem when presented in public. Twice this year at high school volleyball games I have observed the fans in the opposition stands standing talking, texting and horsing around while the national anthem is being played. The first time at Pine Tree, I just fumed and let it slide. But later at John Tyler--a large group of students from the junior high was there to support their team--they were especially disrespectful and I snapped. At all school events there is a school administrator assigned to supervise the event and I found the assistant principal in the foyer. I expressed my concerns and dismay at the students actions and his reply was "What do you expect me to do." The next morning, I phoned the Principal and basically got the same response. I then called the Superintendent and got a proper response. He promised to see that all administrators were to be informed that it was their jobs to teach respect for the flag and anthem and he would be following up to see that changes were made. Sometimes you keep calling up the chain of command until you get the guy with the grease gun.

I am off of my soapbox and through preaching now!

Clay M
03-26-2015, 11:19 AM
Over the years I have had to deal with Immorality (A man in the church chasing another mans wife.) Cults, arrogant people with bad theology..and even deacons that were unqualified to be deacons..I have seen it all and dealt with it all..
I am glad to be retired..A pastor has to have the heart of a dove and the hide of a rhinoceros.
I always enjoyed working with the poor..Many seem to be very gracious and appreciative of anything you do for them.

jmort
03-26-2015, 11:38 AM
That is why it is imperative to be called to the ministry as a Pastor, Teacher, or Preacher. It is not for everyone, to be sure. Also, Paul, pesky Paul say to in order to be a Deacon aka part of the ministry, you have to be moral, have a good family, and have a good reputation. Thank you for your service.

Clay M
03-26-2015, 11:45 AM
That is why it is imperative to be called to the ministry as a Pastor, Teacher, or Preacher. It is not for everyone, to be sure. Also, Paul, pesky Paul say to in order to be a Deacon aka part of the ministry, you have to be moral, have a good family, and have a good reputation. Thank you for your service.

You are welcome..
A deacon in the Bible was a servant ,a table waiter. .not a Boss.
There is no board of Deacons in the Bible..

lefty o
03-26-2015, 12:19 PM
it never ceases to amaze me how poorly people will act , all the while hiding behind the bible/church.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 12:40 PM
My guess is that most people dress poorly for lack of money or funds to do any better..
I am sure most would gladly wear a three piece suit if they could afford one..

All the while they drive the latest SUV. Wait, dang it, that's judging again.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 12:41 PM
Person can't even have an opinion without being a judge!

jmort
03-26-2015, 12:45 PM
"(sic) it never ceases to amaze me how poorly people will act , all the while hiding behind the bible/church."

Compared to sinner men and women, the majority of Christians I have met were/are awesome, great people. Sinner men and women focus on the hypocrisy of the Church which is unfortunate, but part of free will. I believe it helps sinners rationalize their bad behavior. We will all get to see how it turns out. No one is perfect all all people are sinners, some just repented and try to do their best and improve, while accepting the gift of Salvation, the ultimate gift, the covering of their sins, paid in full by the Supreme Sacrifice of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. It is truly a blessing to meet and associate with fellow Christians. Thank God for Jesus.

MBTcustom
03-26-2015, 12:52 PM
Lots of good comments here.
It was said that you should dress to meet the Lord showing your expectation to do just that. I agree. However, some day I will meet the Lord in person, and I can say unreservedly, the thing I will be most ashamed of is not the clothes I am wearing nor the cleanliness of my skin, but rather what those two garments are covering. Sadly, there is no covering or cologne that can cover the true condition of my heart as I lay face down before my Lord. Only the blood of Jesus could accomplish that task, and that is the only thing that I could put on that would give me a prayer of rising to my knees or even my feet before my Lord.

As it pertains to life here on earth, the Lord made me a blue collar gentleman. I attend services in a blue collar the same as I apply myself to my vocation, as that is who I am and how I dress. If I thought that wearing a business suit would make me better suited to meet the people I depend on for my vocation, I would do so.

I do my best to be courteous to those I meet, I treat women with a different kind of respect than I do men, and I'm there for anyone who needs help, and the people of my community know that very well.

That said, if I was ever made aware that there are certain people who cannot enjoy the benefit of my presence because of the way I dress, I have a suit for that purpose.

lefty o
03-26-2015, 12:57 PM
i dont know, ive found most christians are the biggest sinners, liars, thieves, cheaters, etc. the list goes on and on. funny how you made 2 kinds of people, christians, and sinners. lol

Clay M
03-26-2015, 12:59 PM
All the while they drive the latest SUV. Wait, dang it, that's judging again.

All the ones I have known drive and old car about like mine..It is a SUV that is twelve years old with 207000 miles on it..
Maybe we are talking about different people.

Clay M
03-26-2015, 01:01 PM
Once again, I am sorry I was drawn into any religious discussion. .My bad ..I will try to make sure it doesn't happen again..

dakotashooter2
03-26-2015, 01:02 PM
It's not as much about being finely dresses as being presentable. It costs NOTHING to look presentable. Long ratty hair can be combed. Even a wrinkled shirt looks better tucked in. Pant's hanging around your a$$ can be pulled up..............

jcwit
03-26-2015, 01:05 PM
All the ones I have known drive and old car about like mine..It is a SUV that is twelve years old with 207000 miles on it..
Maybe we are talking about different people.

Nope, totally different area's of the country.

I drive a 10 year old car, but then it looks as it did when it came out of the showroom. My wife's 12 year old car is the same.

But then I take extremely good care of my vehicles, oop's there I go again, judging!

jcwit
03-26-2015, 01:06 PM
It's not as much about being finely dresses as being presentable. It costs NOTHING to look presentable. Long ratty hair can be combed. Even a wrinkled shirt looks better tucked in. Pant's hanging around your a$$ can be pulled up..............

BINGO, and we have another winner!

jmort
03-26-2015, 01:17 PM
"(sic) funny how you made 2 kinds of people, christians (sic), and sinners."

Exactly, you got it.

DR Owl Creek
03-26-2015, 01:24 PM
"(sic) it never ceases to amaze me how poorly people will act , all the while hiding behind the bible/church."

Compared to sinner men and women, the majority of Christians I have met were/are awesome, great people. Sinner men and women focus on the hypocrisy of the Church which is unfortunate, but part of free will. I believe it helps sinners rationalize their bad behavior. We will all get to see how it turns out. No one is perfect all all people are sinners, some just repented and try to do their best and improve, while accepting the gift of Salvation, the ultimate gift, the covering of their sins, paid in full by the Supreme Sacrifice of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. It is truly a blessing to meet and associate with fellow Christians. Thank God for Jesus.


Amen Brother!


Dave

DR Owl Creek
03-26-2015, 01:26 PM
It's not as much about being finely dresses as being presentable. It costs NOTHING to look presentable. Long ratty hair can be combed. Even a wrinkled shirt looks better tucked in. Pant's hanging around your a$$ can be pulled up..............


+1


Dave

MBTcustom
03-26-2015, 01:38 PM
For the record, and not to make a point of any kind, but Sunday before last, we had one of these underdressed/unkempt individuals come to church. I set next to him, and after services, I asked if he would join my family for lunch.
Turns out he works at the local Walmart, enjoys gaming and such, but has met a young Christian lady who he feels compelled to impress with his eligibility as husband material. Very naive and inexperienced. We had a nice lunch and parted ways. I saw him again four days ago, still looking as haggard as ever, but smiling much more in spite of the fact that very few seemed interested in talking to him.
I think he'll improve if he sticks with it.

I agree with the OP: We as a society are becoming far too lackadaisical about the most basic virtues of proper human relationship. I just think some choose foolish things to site as an example of this reality.

dtknowles
03-26-2015, 01:38 PM
It's not as much about being finely dresses as being presentable. It costs NOTHING to look presentable. Long ratty hair can be combed. Even a wrinkled shirt looks better tucked in. Pant's hanging around your a$$ can be pulled up..............

How common a problem is this where you live? I don't see much of these issues around here. Except for the panhandlers around the interstate exit near the truck stop peoples hair and beards seem to be brushed. Only a rare case of the hanging pants from time to time usually to expose the wide waste band of designer underwear. Lots of tats and piercings but usually on people who appear well washed. Yes, there is some shabby chic distressed designer clothes. It would be hard to call someone who spends good money on carefully chosen shabby clothes a slob.

Are we talking about a difference in personal preference and style or true slob behavior?

Tim

jcwit
03-26-2015, 01:43 PM
For the record, and not to make a point of any kind, but Sunday before last, we had one of these underdressed/unkempt individuals come to church. I set next to him, and after services, I asked if he would join my family for lunch.
Turns out he works at the local Walmart, enjoys gaming and such, but has met a young Christian lady who he feels compelled to impress with his eligibility as husband material. Very naive and inexperienced. We had a nice lunch and parted ways. I saw him again three days ago, still looking as haggard as ever, but smiling much more in spite of the fact that very few seemed interested in talking to him.
I think he'll improve if he sticks with it.

Looks like you may have made a good impression on him and he likely will come along. Good Job.

As our Pastor said last evening, one of us may not change the world, but one of us may change the world of one person.

DR Owl Creek
03-26-2015, 01:49 PM
How common a problem is this where you live? ...
.
.. Only a rare case of the hanging pants from time to time usually to expose the wide waste band of designer underwear. Lots of tats and piercings but usually on people who appear well washed. Yes, there is some shabby chic distressed designer clothes. It would be hard to call someone who spends good money on carefully chosen shabby clothes a slob.

Are we talking about a difference in personal preference and style or true slob behavior?

Tim


It's more of the unwashed "gansta" look. By "unwashed" I mean for days at a time. And NO, it's not a designer fashion thing either. It seems to be everywhere these days.

Dave

Lloyd Smale
03-26-2015, 02:46 PM
seems to me that nobody here agrees with you. Doesn't that kind of tell you something??? Theres no one here putting you down. They just don't agree with your opinion. If anything the lack of respect is on your side. You want to stereotype people by how they look. No different then stereotyping by color of skin or religion. Many of us here have seen fancy panced well dressed men that were far from Christian or caring and many poorly dressed people that would give you that tattered shirt right off the back if you were cold. If your clothes or your fancy car or boat make you feel superior to your neighbor your certainly not a Christian. If you think your somehow better or more important then the least of your fellow man you are a vain sinner. I don't see how you can respect yourself when you don't even understand what respect to your fellow man is. You might as well give it a rest because you sure don't have any support on this subject. I would suggest you go to your minister and talk this over with him and let him set you straight.
The respect to others and to oneself is even lacking here. Guess I judged that didn't I.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 03:00 PM
seems to me that nobody here agrees with you. Doesn't that kind of tell you something??? Theres no one here putting you down. They just don't agree with your opinion. If anything the lack of respect is on your side. You want to stereotype people by how they look. No different then stereotyping by color of skin or religion. Many of us here have seen fancy panced well dressed men that were far from Christian or caring and many poorly dressed people that would give you that tattered shirt right off the back if you were cold. If your clothes or your fancy car or boat make you feel superior to your neighbor your certainly not a Christian. If you think your somehow better or more important then the least of your fellow man you are a vain sinner. I don't see how you can respect yourself when you don't even understand what respect to your fellow man is. You might as well give it a rest because you sure don't have any support on this subject. I would suggest you go to your minister and talk this over with him and let him set you straight.
You missed my whole point completely, as did most here. Reread posts 29, 30, & 31. Right, my fancy car??? A 10 year old P ontiac Vibe, that because of the way I keep it up looks like new, is a fancy car. LOL. Frankly I see little to nothing wrong with butting best foot forward, nor do I see anything wrong with improving the way people act, speak, & dress. It centers more on self respect than on putting others down, but I have failed in getting that point across. Ah well, it is what it is.

jcwit
03-26-2015, 03:03 PM
BTW those 3 posts I mentioned, got it, as did a few others.

dtknowles
03-26-2015, 03:32 PM
You missed my whole point completely, as did most here. Reread posts 29, 30, & 31. Right, my fancy car??? A 10 year old P ontiac Vibe, that because of the way I keep it up looks like new, is a fancy car. LOL. Frankly I see little to nothing wrong with butting best foot forward, nor do I see anything wrong with improving the way people act, speak, & dress. It centers more on self respect than on putting others down, but I have failed in getting that point across. Ah well, it is what it is.

The posts you reference are people who agree with you. I think that many of us agree that there is nothing wrong with wishing for improving the way people act. As far as how people talk or dress, thinking that todays style are somehow worse and need improving is chauvinistic. Why is a suit or shirt and tie better than jeans and a polo shirt or a Job's style turtle neck or distressed jeans and designer tee shirt. As far as how people talk, what is the issue you see?

Tim

jcwit
03-26-2015, 04:13 PM
Good steel also understands, and gets it.

lefty o
03-26-2015, 06:39 PM
"(sic) funny how you made 2 kinds of people, christians (sic), and sinners."

Exactly, you got it.i did get it, and its aparent that you need to brush up on your bible again.

1johnlb
03-26-2015, 07:01 PM
Oh, here we go. The thread's not going the way you want it to, so your just going to throw a fit and start calling people liberals. Despite the fact that this thread has NOTHING to do with politics and the arguments being made here are being made from the Bible.

Go reread 1johnlb's post.

Texas woodworker you also need to go reread Romans 14 just in case you missed the point. Both you and jcwit have drawn a line to an extent and have decided that anyone standing on the other side of it is wrong. I posted Romans 14 for both of you and including myself.

God deals with us on a individual bases on both sides of the line. Some of us need to get God out of the box.

We can't or shouldn't make laws for everyone else based on what God does in our life. Many of pastors have and do try to make doctrine out of their personal relationship with the Father and then tell their congregation that it's got to be done this way or that way and that's wrong. One of the best things about being a Christian is that personal walk of grace with God. This is where we learn Him, who He is and what matters to Him in our life.

IF GOD'S NOT DEALING WITH US, THEN WE NEED TO CHECK OUR WALK.

texaswoodworker
03-26-2015, 07:33 PM
"I believe that we are not to judge anyone since that is what the bible says, and that seems to be the general consensus for most in this thread."

No, that is not what the Bible says. If one takes the time to read the Bible, you will see that immoral people, who refuse to change their behavior, are to be kicked out of Church. Christians are ordered not to judge sinner men and women.

I believe we've had this argument before. I've read the bible, and it just says not to judge. Let's just go ahead and skip the 3-4 pages of arguing and quoting of the Bible that was sure to happen and just agree to disagree. I doubt I could change your mind, and I'm not changing mine.


All the while they drive the latest SUV. Wait, dang it, that's judging again.

Why don't you tell us all how you feel your so perfect that you should judge others. Worry about your own flaws and not what other people wear.


Compared to sinner men and women, the majority of Christians

I have issue with this. Do not separate us from others. We're ALL sinners and we're ALL children of God. Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean your without sin.


You missed my whole point completely, as did most here. Reread posts 29, 30, & 31. Right, my fancy car??? A 10 year old P ontiac Vibe, that because of the way I keep it up looks like new, is a fancy car. LOL. Frankly I see little to nothing wrong with butting best foot forward, nor do I see anything wrong with improving the way people act, speak, & dress. It centers more on self respect than on putting others down, but I have failed in getting that point across. Ah well, it is what it is.

I think you've missed our point entirely.


Texas woodworker you also need to go reread Romans 14 just in case you missed the point. Both you and jcwit have drawn a line to an extent and have decided that anyone standing on the other side of it is wrong. I posted Romans 14 for both of you and including myself.

God deals with us on a individual bases on both sides of the line. Some of us need to get God out of the box.

We can't or shouldn't make laws for everyone else based on what God does in our life. Many of pastors have and do try to make doctrine out of their personal relationship with the Father and then tell their congregation that it's got to be done this way or that way and that's wrong. One of the best things about being a Christian is that personal walk of grace with God. This is where we learn Him, who He is and what matters to Him in our life.

IF GOD'S NOT DEALING WITH US, THEN WE NEED TO CHECK OUR WALK.

I'm not trying to draw a line. Only state that we should love one another, not judge one another.

Rhou45
03-26-2015, 08:05 PM
i dont know, ive found most christians are the biggest sinners, liars, thieves, cheaters, etc. the list goes on and on. funny how you made 2 kinds of people, christians, and sinners. lol

You should spend some time in the middle east and observe the muslims on a daily basis. Talk about sinners, liars, cheaters, etc. If you are not of their faith, they are taught all the above is ok in order to trick you into doing for them.

SeabeeMan
03-26-2015, 08:13 PM
There are also the saying

You are what you wear.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/Health/Emotional-Health/Discovering-the-Psychology-of-Dress.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-alpert/becoming-fearless_b_4165264.html


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141030124329-20017018-does-how-you-look-and-dress-impact-your-career-sadly-yes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2644076/You-DRESS-Clothing-significant-effect-self-esteem-confidence-claims-expert.html


Sorry to hear of your experience with well dressed people, may hap its possible as to how yourself came across to them?

I've always wondered why there were so many poor, malnourished, and mistreated individuals. They are all poorly dressed and don't deserve better!!! If the poor would just dress better there would be no more poverty!!!

Clay M
03-26-2015, 08:14 PM
1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+9%3A19-23&version=NIV)
and this I will leave you with my friends..
As Martin Luther once said" Here I stand ,I can do no other"

SeabeeMan
03-26-2015, 08:19 PM
You should spend some time in the middle east and observe the muslims on a daily basis. Talk about sinners, liars, cheaters, etc. If you are not of their faith, they are taught all the above is ok in order to trick you into doing for them.

I've spent plenty of time over there, and other than those leaving little gifts for us on the side of the road, everybody I interacted with were some of the most polite, respectful, and kind-hearted people I've ever encountered. I'd take a shared dinner in the TCN lot with some Iraqi I'd never met before, eating meat I couldn't identify heated over a Sterno stove, over some holidays with my family. Hearing a conversation alternate between "judge not" and listing all the people they wish horrible things upon because they think something different kind of makes it hard to take things seriously.

Rhou45
03-26-2015, 08:20 PM
It's not as much about being finely dresses as being presentable. It costs NOTHING to look presentable. Even a wrinkled shirt looks better tucked in. Pant's hanging around your a$$ SHOULD be pulled up..

If you look like the after-midnite crowd at the local Wal-mart or all night dinner, maybe you are part of the problem. As the OP mentioned, his point was about society in general, not just Church. Look at all the problems our society has and convince me, if you can, that our lower standards of dress today are not reflective of a less civil, compassionate society. We are headed downward in values. How society currently presents itself in pubic is a sign of lowered values. There are places in this world where people would be arrested for sagging their pants like the youth of today do as a sign of defiance to authority.

The very mindset that approves of the way society presents itself and interacts is rooted in the mindset that wants to take away our 2A rights, because instead of holding PEOPLE responsible, Lordy be judge them on their actions, no!, Instead say well those darn GUNS are dangerous, take them away. It is one and the same, a lack of self responsibility, a lack of society expecting people to be responsible for their actions or holding them accountable. Instead we say oh, he had a hard life and wasn't given a chance. Each slight and excuse is one step closer to the ultimate erosion of what we call the Bill of Rights.

Rhou45
03-26-2015, 08:27 PM
I've spent plenty of time over there, and other than those leaving little gifts for us on the side of the road, everybody I interacted with were some of the most polite, respectful, and kind-hearted people I've ever encountered. I'd take a shared dinner in the TCN lot with some Iraqi I'd never met before, eating meat I couldn't identify heated over a Sterno stove, over some holidays with my family. Hearing a conversation alternate between "judge not" and listing all the people they wish horrible things upon because they think something different kind of makes it hard to take things seriously.

I always wondered what the ones I interacted with did when we were not around. The farmers that were there when the convoy passed through seemed curiously absent when we came back. While I did enjoy a few of the local meals when they were available, I was wary of the sanitary conditions it was prepared in.

SeabeeMan
03-26-2015, 09:22 PM
We were fortunate enough to have a translator who was local to the area on the vast majority of our missions, so we got a lot of the back stories and a better understanding of what the people were dealing with and going through.

I always figured that the sanitation couldn't be much worse than eating an MRE next to a half mile long row of porta-crappers or being around the latrine burn pits. With all the news coming out now about the KBR open burn pits, a little fecal material or unknown meat should have been the least of my worries.

snuffy
03-27-2015, 12:26 PM
My dad NEVER went to church in anything other than his best suit & tie. He never even went to town unless he changed from his work clothes to newer/clean clothes. As a youth, I was expected to have on clean clothes which was whatever I wore to school when going to church. As an adult, I was expected to wear a suit. Dad made it clear, as long as I was under age, I would follow his rules. As soon as I graduated, and was over 18, I could do as I pleased. I was never comfortable in a suit, so I simply wore casual clothing to church. This was a very old Lutheran church. Dad said either wear a suit or don't go to church. So I stopped going to church. Now I don't even own a suit!

The pastor of my current church is blind! This is a pentecostal church, a lot of singing and testimonials. The pastor has no idea of what people are wearing, (unless he were to ask). I doubt he asks! I believe that the Lord is also blind to a persons garb. It's how his/her heart is dressed that matters.

My son is getting married in June. He just called last Wednesday to ask if I would mind wearing a tux. Which he would pay the rental for. As I said, I hate wearing a suit. But I would have to buy one to go to his wedding. I respect the occasion, and would bend my rules to honor the occasion. His offer to pay the rental would solve the need to but a suit, (that I can't afford). So I will get a tux on for the second time in my life, the first was my own wedding.

He then asked me if I could offer a prayer prior to the start of the reception. Whoa! I'm NOT any kind of public speaker, especially where it comes to praying. I'm like Smokey Wolf, I pray in whatever, or wherever, place I'm in. Nothing formal about it. I said flat out no! Then I prayed about it, discussed it with my brother, and messaged him on Facebook that I would come up with something IF I weren't judged on how it sounded. I want his wedding to be as special as it can be. He's marrying a very special lady, whom I will be proud to introduce as my daughter-in-law! Still trying to convince me to wear the tux, he said no matter what you pray, you'll look snazzy saying it! :mrgreen:

I often attend my church in blue jeans and a flannel shirt, both fresh from the laundry. Summer time will see me in an also clean casual short sleeved shirt. I'm comfortable, and I'm sure the Lord doesn't mind. I don't even notice what others are wearing. I'm also fresh out of the shower. Dad and mom always took the Saturday night baths, the only time they bathed the whole body.

jcwit
03-27-2015, 12:38 PM
And in fact snuffy, you are NOT sloppy. May not be all duded up, but not sloppy.