lee sizer, or lubrisizer

[mwohlenhaus]

I am just getting started in casting and am wondering if the lee sizing dies are adequate, or if i should just look for a used lubrisizer I was looking at the lyman lubrisizer kit, that includes book, furnace, sizer, and lube. Compared to the lee liquid alox lube and the sizing die that uses a standard press. I would like to get into it at a level that would allow me to produce enough bullets and allow me to expand my operation without buying another $130 worth of equipment.. Any recoomendations are appreciated.

[Ranch Dog]

I use them and love them but I only work with about 12,000 bullets a year!

This is a frequent question/topic on this forum so you might also run a search.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi,
Whether boolits have to be sized is a separate theme in itself, but putting that aside for the moment, let us say that generally they are and for sure thay have to be lubed. Lee sizers are very reasonably priced and work well, but the bullets have to be lubed separately by getting the lube into the lube grooves. This is done by standing the boolitz on their bases in a shallow tin or tray and pouring the lube in around them until the level is up to the top of the highest groove. Then the boolit is pushed out of the lube or better yet cut out of the lube with a type of cutter usually made out of an old shell casing with the back cut off. An alternate method is to tumble them in Lee's Liquid Alox which works pretty well too. The lubed boolit is then pushed nose first up thru the Lee sizing die of whatever diameter you need. Simple, economical and thoroughly practical but a bit slow and a litle messy. Bottom line though is that it works very well.
The other way to do the same job is by using a lube & sizing machine called a lubrisizer. It does both operations at one time. These "middle of the road " price-wise machines are produced by RCBS, Lyman, and (Redding) Saeco. There are a couple of other much higher priced brands that are much sought after by those who can afford the tag and those machines are well worth it . Prices of those mentioned above are between $100 and $150 new. They do require numbered nose punches that vary with the shape of the bullet nose and those punches aren't cheap. They also require a sizing die for each size that you want/need. Also not cheap. The lube you need no matter what. All brands mentioned do a good job and different folks have their favorites and make their recommendations based on their experience.
It comes down to your view and value of convenience and what you can afford, or are willing to spend/invest, and that is a call that you have to personally make. A Lee kit for a caliber runs around $12 at Midsouth whereas a Lubrisizer, with the punch and sizing die made by one of the companies mentioned above will run over $150 at Midsouth. There are other sources that might be a bit cheaper, but that's the general ballpark of numbers. A good lubrisizer, like any good tool should/will last a long time and do a good job and you have to consider that fact as well. Other forum members will also give you good advice. LLS/Loup

[bruce drake]

If you use the Lee Liquid Alox (LAA) or Frog Snot as some call it, you just place about 100 bullets (depending on size, 45-70 bullets I usually do just 50) into a Ziplog sandwich bag and squirt a large dollop of the LAA into the bag. Close the bag up tight and then roll the bullets around in my hand as the LAA gets spread all over the bullets. Then you just empty the bag onto a sheet of wax paper or aluminum foil and stand them on end to dry to the touch.

After they are dry, run them through the Lee Lubesizer and you are set unless you want to put another coat of lube on them after you size the bullet.

Melting lube and pouring it around bullets that usually refuse to stay upright (there was always one or two that fell over as I poured the melt into the pan) and the cutting them out of the cake convinced me to transfer to the LAA or the Lubesizer

The LAA is about $2.50-$3.00 a bottle and usually last a good while. The trick to using LAA is to warm it up in the microwave for a few seconds before you try to use it. It has a habit of stiffening up in the bottle over time.

I use a Lyman 45 lubesizer as well but I figure I use the LAA about half the time due to how simple it is.

If you are getting into casting, LAA is a simple way to start without the major investment in a Lyman (yes, for some $130 is a major investment on this forum, so I don't fault anyone for starting on the low end. I did and saved my money for the more expensive stuff as my hobby progessed).

Bruce

[mwohlenhaus]

thanks for the info.

[Buckshot]

...............You might not HAVE to size, but you MUST lube.

The Lee push through sizers are without a doubt the best way to size.
1)Simple
2)Cheap
3)Fast
4)Supremely accurate.

The issue with the Lee type sizers is that they do not apply lube. You apply it by hand, pan lube, use LA or some other flood type lube. And if you don't need to size you don't even need the Lee Sizers. Lee sizer ID's cover the common high spots in desired boolit OD's only, leaving many desireable ones out.

Lube-Size presses have as their main attribute the means to apply lube wether you're sizing or not. If you're NOT sizing you will need a die a thousandth over the 'as cast' slugs OD, so you're buying the die regardless.
1) Not as simple
2) Not as cheap
3) Not as fast
4) Accuracy can change over time due to wear

Having typed the above you'd think a person might be a bit adrift to buy a lube-szie press :-) I have 4 of'em and there are many others who own even more. I would hazard a guess that if you asked 100 active cast boolit shooters, probably 80 would have at least one lube-size press.

.................Buckshot

[Freightman]

...............You might not HAVE to size, but you MUST lube.

The Lee push through sizers are without a doubt the best way to size.
1)Simple
2)Cheap
3)Fast
4)Supremely accurate.

The issue with the Lee type sizers is that they do not apply lube. You apply it by hand, pan lube, use LA or some other flood type lube. And if you don't need to size you don't even need the Lee Sizers. Lee sizer ID's cover the common high spots in desired boolit OD's only, leaving many desireable ones out.

Lube-Size presses have as their main attribute the means to apply lube wether you're sizing or not. If you're NOT sizing you will need a die a thousandth over the 'as cast' slugs OD, so you're buying the die regardless.
1) Not as simple
2) Not as cheap
3) Not as fast
4) Accuracy can change over time due to wear

Having typed the above you'd think a person might be a bit adrift to buy a lube-szie press :-) I have 4 of'em and there are many others who own even more. I would hazard a guess that if you asked 100 active cast boolit shooters, probably 80 would have at least one lube-size press.

.................Buckshot
Right on! and LLA can be had for a reasonable price at some of the suppliers. I personally have enough for the next century at least.

[RBak]

Well said Buckshot! IMO, that is just about all you will ever need to know to make that choice, and will, in all probability, apply to 'bout anyone that is just starting.

It's not really the "getting started" that is the expensive part, it's that part that comes later.
Let's call it the, "I want to see for myself part".....so and so said this, but someone else said this, but I think this, so now I am going to find out just who is right!

Russ

[mooman76]

As stated they both have their good and bad points. I have both and use both. Not the Lee sizers too much any more but the LLA. I usually shoot as cast. If you want to go cheap get the Lee. If you can't make up your mind get the Lee and you can upgrade later. Basically the biggest differance is Lee is quicker but takes prep work ahead of time and is messier. The other lube presses can lube imediately for loading.

[4570guy]

Here's another vote for the Lee system. Someone on this board (I forget who) recommended simply using water mixed with a little Murphy's Oil Soap to act as a lubricant when running through the Lee size die. This works very well. I've adopted that technique and it is much neater than first lubing with LLA prior to sizing. After sizing/gas check, I've lubed with nothing but LLA with good success. However, I've not pushed any of my muzzle velocities greater than 1800 fps.

[mwohlenhaus]

Is the special bullet that has the smaller grooves from lee required?

[4570guy]

You are speaking of the tumble lube (TL) bullets -- no you don't have to use them. You can use any bullet with this system. What cartridge are you casting for? Many bullets will shoot just fine with lube only and no sizing. The key is the as-cast size (0.00 to +0.001 over bore size). I generally try for 0.001 over bore size. I shoot the Lee 340gr in my .45-70 unsized and it works great. I size all my .30-cal rifle bullets (barely). I primarily use the Lee size die to seat the gas check. The sizer just kisses the driving bands so there is really not much "sizing" going on. Finally, keep in mind that once cast, different lead alloys will result in slightly different as-cast bullet sizes. See the Lyman cast bullet handbook for reference (if you don't already have a copy -- you should get one).

[PatMarlin]

Is the special bullet that has the smaller grooves from lee required?

Not required. But TL or " tumble lube" boolits work very well with LLA.

LIKE Buckshot said buy a lube press... Jus Kiddin'..:mrgreen:

I started with LEE lubeszers and LLA, and I had some problems with my over all length changing all the time. Instead of sticking with it and working it out I saw a Lyman 45 at a pawn shop, and really like it. Makes very clean lubed boolits for any caliber. No mess, fuss or muss.

Since then I don't use LLA, but the LEE sizers are handy. There's lots of stuff you can do with them. One cool thing is I made a meplat press to put a repeatable flat nose on some boolits to use in my 30-30. This was simply done by using a 30 cal LEE sizer and a press.

Now with the help of guys like R-Dog, and his cool boolit designs, I will go back to using LLA for my 45-70, but the lyman 45's are nice. I have 3 with the favorite lubs sold here.

[PatMarlin]

One other thought-

I think my 45 lube presses are much faster than the LLA process with no waiting. Also just as simple.

:Fire::coffee::drinks::drinks::Fire::coffee:

[Junior1942]

When I discovered the Lee push-through sizing dies and LLA, I stopped using my 450 sizer-lubricator. In fact, I recently removed it from my loading bench.

[dromia]

Ditto Buckshots analysis.

LA works and I use it for light indoor range loads in my rifles with unsized boolits, the push through Lee type dies are good if you are wanting better concentricity but Lee's sizes are limited, fortunately there is Buckshot to help us there with his skills at very reasonable cost.

Glen Larsen of White Label Lubes, Lar45's LsStuff link at the bottom of the page will sell you LA at a really friendly price. :-D

If you think that boolit casting is for you then you'll need to resign yourself to the fact that you will end up with both types of sizers in the fullness of time.

To get started check first that you need to size your boolit for your gun.

[mwohlenhaus]

I am loading for .45 acp auto, and eventually 7.62 russian. got the lyman book today and will study up. I have everything I need to smelt, but want to read into it a bit to know a little better what I am doing. once again thanks for the info.

[Wayne Smith]

The one exception is if you are shooting the Holy Black. Then you do not use Lee Frog Snot, only lubes without any petroleum products. I got tired of the hassle and mess of melting the lube around the base, too many of them the lube popped out as well.

Now I run a Lyman with BP lube and a RCBS with Bullshop Green lube.