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GaryM
03-07-2008, 09:00 PM
I am new to casting and been using wheel weights but just ran across another source of lead.
I have access to a local American Legion hall where they have meat shoots and the target area is full of lead shot, I mean hundreds of pounds just lying there in piles. My question is this worth collecting? What is it made of? I did smelt a few pounds and poured a few bullets. The bullet poured from the shot weighed 192 grs where as the same mold with wheel weights weighs 198 grs.
It did pour a very nice full and clean bullet but the pot had a kinda strange oily yellowish tinge on top, not bright shiny silver like lead does.
Anyway, any idea what this is made of and is it worth while to cast with it.
Thanks.
Gary

Ricochet
03-07-2008, 09:49 PM
According to the table here: http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

You're probably looking at somewhere between 2-4% antimony with a bit of arsenic. Good stuff for quench hardening, and likely good stuff for most pistol bullets as is.

The yellow stuff's probably mostly lead oxide.

JIMinPHX
03-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Shot composition varies quite a bit, especially these days, but I have yet to see any that wasn’t excellent for casting boolits. Grab all the shot that you can while you still can. It’s great stuff to work with. You can always trade it off to others here on the board if you don’t use it yourself.

A few shot references -
http://www.maycoindustries.com/lead_shot.htm
http://www.gravitaindia.com/leadshotsballs.html

HeavyMetal
03-08-2008, 01:14 AM
Seems to me I remember someone saying lead shot had a higher content of Arsenic than antimony This was added as a hardening agent to boost the effect of the antimony!

If you happy with the boolits your getting from this lead source go a head on. However they may be quite brittle and the same source suggested that lead shot be used as a "hardener"
for ww alloy not as a sole source for boolit metal.

I'd make two suggestion 1 get it all! 2 do some research and make sure your blending good safe alloys to shoot. The brittleness was pointed out as a possible obstruction in the barrel? AS in the boolits might crack on the way down the barrel?

If I remember where I saw this info I will post the publication it's in.

JIMinPHX
03-08-2008, 01:56 AM
Shot usually comes up around 11-14BNH as cast. If you water drop it you usually get something in the low 20s. the stuff that I used was not too hard or too brittle. It was nice stuff. I added a little tin, but less than Paco Kelly used to use in his 18:1 mix. Shot is premo base material.

GaryM
03-08-2008, 10:27 AM
Excellent! Thankx for the help guys. I will be going back there monday with a shovel and a five gallon bucket.

garandsrus
03-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Gary,

You better take a couple buckets. You more than likely won't be able to lift a full one! About 1/2 full is probably going to be 70 or so pounds.

John

JIMinPHX
03-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Surplus metal ammo cans are great for keeping your shot in. They hold about as much as I can lift.

cbrick
03-08-2008, 04:46 PM
The shot I tested was 8 BHN compared with stick-on WW at 6 BHN and clip-on WW at 11 BHN. I cast and expansion tested this shot+ 2% tin with the Lyman 45 Devastator and it was very, very good. Shooting into water it expanded as well as stick-on WW and broke apart only slightly more.

Arsenic is added to dropped shot because the alloy will not drop round shot without it. I am not enough of a metalurgist to know why that is, just to know that it is. The arsenic perentage is far below the antimony precentage. Adding much more than about 1/2 of 1 percent arsenic wouldn't accomplish much. The arsenic also aids in hardening the shot as its dropped into water. The arsenic itself adds very little to the hardening, it is a catalyst to HT exactly the same as when HT WW alloy. The exact composition of shot varies by mfg as does WW alloy. To the best of my knowledge there is no industry standard but a good deal of similiarity between mfg for the purpose of acheiving the same results (or final product). keep in mind there are different types of shot, magnum etc. and getting shot from a shotgun range should mean that you'll have a blend of all of it probably including steel. Not a problem though, the steel shot will float and not become part of your ingots.

The idea that shot will crack or cause barrel obstructions is kind of silly, can't imagine where that might have come from. Its a bit softer than WW, makes great handgun boolits and yes, you should get every bit of it while the getting is good.

Rick

GaryM
03-08-2008, 05:02 PM
So if I hardcast this (I think the term, just droppping it from the mold into cold water) how hard will it get?
Funny thing about the shot, they shoot against an angled steel plate that deflects the shot into a steel box underneath. None of the shot I am collecting is whole. It is simply small flecks and powder. It doesn't seem like lead at all until you lift the container it is in. That's when you can fell the weight.
Hopefully I will be testing some cast bullets made from this in my new .300 whisper. This is going to be fun. :mrgreen:

Leftoverdj
03-08-2008, 05:07 PM
Ricochet is right on the normal antimony content for shot, but what you're getting is likely to be more like 7% antimony. Meat shoots use the smallest shot available, usually #9, which takes a higher antimony content to make. That's in line with your observation that the shot casts a bit lighter than WW. Waterquenched as you cast, you can expect a hardness near that of linotype, 20 bnh or a bit harder.

While you are scrounging, don't overlook the fired hulls. If they are just being discarded, they are highly salable.

GaryM
03-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Yup, it is no. 9 shot, I know that for certain.
As for the hulls, I didn't know that, I will be tossing those in on top.
Thanks again!

cbrick
03-08-2008, 05:45 PM
Don't worry about it not being whole shot, if it was pulled from the steel container it'll still melt fine, just be sure to flux well, hell, for giggles flux a couple of times to be positive the gunk is removed.

No, "hardcast" isn't the right term. Hardcast is a term invented by commercial casters to fool the unknowing into thinking they "need" hard bullets. For most handgun uses you not only don't need hard but it can lead to leading and inaccuracy. Commercial casters cast hard simply because harder bullets withstand the rigors of shipping better than boolits of proper BHN. Same reason they use a hard lube, it stays on the boolits better during shipping, not because it works better.

How hard will your alloy get by "Quenching"? Depends on all of the variables such as exact alloy composition, mould temp etc. But it will get harder over a period of a few days, possibly harder than your application will require but remember, proper bullet fit makes up for a lot. Testing it will tell.

If you keep your 30 Whisper a 30 Whisper you shouldn't need a very high BHN alloy, your WW should be about perfect and the shot could work well also. The Whisper was designed to shoot heavy for caliber bullets sub-sonic and that's where its at its best. Many shooters try to make the Whisper something its not and was never intended for, ie shooting light weight bullets really fast. Defeats the purpose of the cartridge.

Good luck, keep us informed how it goes for you, curious minds want to know.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Rick

Sherlok
03-09-2008, 09:51 PM
Gary,

Be real careful of the arsenic in shot. Use plenty of ventilation if you melt it.

Sherlok