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View Full Version : Military SPECOPS excercises on state property



popper
03-20-2015, 10:26 AM
https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/258605525?access_key=key-dS1ZhJJ4ZgCH6XXhBqWp&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll
Interesting that the BLUE states don't have any planned operations.

nicholst55
03-20-2015, 10:36 AM
I think you're reading more into it than really exists. I can't get it to paste, but one slide says that they require access to large areas of undeveloped land with low population densities. Where you gonna find that in, say, Mass.? Just sayin'.

Omega
03-20-2015, 10:42 AM
https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/258605525?access_key=key-dS1ZhJJ4ZgCH6XXhBqWp&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll
Interesting that the BLUE states don't have any planned operations.
Not true, we used to train in many a blue state. I can't get to that site right now but I know we used to train in WA, CO, and OR state which are most definitely blue at least last I looked.

runfiverun
03-20-2015, 10:58 AM
get used to it.
they do shoot training now not shoot/don't shoot or mediation.

texaswoodworker
03-20-2015, 01:58 PM
Well, Texas does have a lot of military bases and sparsely populated land. I don't see a problem with it. It's going to help the local economies by pumping $150,000 into them so more power to them.

runfiverun
03-20-2015, 08:41 PM
it's getting hard to tell if it's the military or the police doing the training exercises anymore.

popper
03-20-2015, 09:00 PM
After the Civil War, a law was passed preventing Army or Navy from operating on US soil unless in case of civil unrest and is still in force. Coast Guard has been exempted but AF & Marines included. Paramilitary 'drills' have been held in LA, Miami etc - of course the US Gov. doesn't obey the rules. Only one case has been won in court about the blatant disreguard for law. Military training is primarily done on Federal property. If you really READ the article, Bastrop, Corpus, El Paso, etc. budgets are really going to be helped by $150K?

Omega
03-20-2015, 09:35 PM
After the Civil War, a law was passed preventing Army or Navy from operating on US soil unless in case of civil unrest and is still in force. Coast Guard has been exempted but AF & Marines included. Paramilitary 'drills' have been held in LA, Miami etc - of course the US Gov. doesn't obey the rules. Only one case has been won in court about the blatant disreguard for law. Military training is primarily done on Federal property. If you really READ the article, Bastrop, Corpus, El Paso, etc. budgets are really going to be helped by $150K? Grow up.That only prevents federal forces from acting in a law enforcement capacity on US soil. The training is required to keep our forces sharp and able to do those missions overseas. While some Military Operations on Urban Terrain (MOUT) sites do exist on Military bases, there are not enough to train all our soldiers for overseas deployments. And since our SPECOPS can be called upon to perform high risk missions in metropolitan areas overseas it only makes sense to use similar sites here to train in.

texaswoodworker
03-20-2015, 09:36 PM
If you really READ the article, Bastrop, Corpus, El Paso, etc. budgets are really going to be helped by $150K? Grow up.

Local businesses? Yeah, that would help them. As for your "grow up" comment, that was uncalled for. How about disagreeing without the insults?








fixed it for him.

texaswoodworker
03-20-2015, 09:39 PM
it's getting hard to tell if it's the military or the police doing the training exercises anymore.

The militarization of the police I do have a problem with. Especially when they gather a SWAT team, and serve a "no knock" warrant over something minor.... and do it at the wrong house.

starmac
03-20-2015, 10:28 PM
1200 military personell involved and will only be spending 150,000. Hmmmm sounds like they aren't allowed to patronize the Texas honky tonks.

texaswoodworker
03-21-2015, 02:19 AM
HUH????
what you are referring to is the Posse Comitatus Act. Which does NOT apply to the National Guard.

Right after the Civil War the Army of Occupation duties in the South caused the Posse Comitatus Act.

US Federal Military forces have always been allowed to operate within the US, that is why it's called National Defense.

WE just cannot enforce laws, this limits the Military even today in disaster relief as well. As a Federal Troop I cannot direct a civillian to turn around except under the control of civilian authorites even to save that civillian life ( but I can park BIG equipment in a road blocking it and ignore you I just can't tell you to turn around without a LEO, that is even a gray area).
Certain criteria must be met, to include Congressional approval.
1. The Civilian authority must request my assistance.
2. I cannot use Federal money or equipment except to save lives or ease suffering.
3. I must get approval or notify my higher if it is a life threating event.
4. I MUST cease operations with 48 hours except as approved by Congress
5. I cannot detain people or enforce laws unless martial law is in effect which means the local or regional governance is in effective and cannot function. Again that is under the direction and approval of Congress.

Now if a real suspected external terrorist act or the event of a invasion all bets are off....

In the case of an invasion, I'm willing to bet no one is going to care about rules and your going to have some civilians helping you by returning fire as well. :D

popper
03-21-2015, 09:03 AM
Sgt.Mike has it pretty much right but the rules he states are for state (national?) guards and militia. This is supposed to be for training & co-ord. in populated areas, for foreign situations ( I guess mexican speaking population is as good as we can get for non-communication?). As for desolate locations, Hood, Riley, Carson, etc. have plenty of arid areas. Guess I just don't understand the purpose of this kind of exercise, dropping (supposedly unannounced ) into a rural town, with guns & equipment. Just sounds like a boondoggle to me. Yes I was in KC when the N.G, was acting security patrol during the riots.

JSnover
03-21-2015, 04:25 PM
If it happened on private property THEN you'd have a story...!

runfiverun
03-21-2015, 06:07 PM
The militarization of the police I do have a problem with. Especially when they gather a SWAT team, and serve a "no knock" warrant over something minor.... and do it at the wrong house.

I think this is a situation where another agency needs to take over.
the police are the police, not ninja's.
and the 'suspect' has moved him/herself into another classification of citizenry.
I think it's ridiculous to have a swat team roll up in a semi pseudo tank at 5 am, kick in a door then shoot anything that moves or tries to protect itself.
even our little town here has an old apc for stuff like this..

popper
03-21-2015, 07:10 PM
Replies are interesting. I posted (and didn't ask) WHY? Small group of good/bad (80 or so) guys armed with blanks - I suppose there will be (unannounced) shooting in small towns - is this a pysch experiment? Cartel control? The Mil. (CIA, FBI, Homeland, etc.) should have lots of experience with this type operation in actual battles in previous wars. We know these operations have been run across our country in the last couple years, unannounced, this is the first I've seen publicly posted. Just curious as to opinions. Reminds me of an RFQ for a system to detect a single 22LR cartridge on a person walking the DC (WH) mall. Spent some company money working on a ridiculous idea.
Just received this link - speak from an admiral.
http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=51fe948515b4

Omega
03-21-2015, 10:15 PM
Replies are interesting. I posted (and didn't ask) WHY? Small group of good/bad (80 or so) guys armed with blanks - I suppose there will be (unannounced) shooting in small towns - is this a pysch experiment? Cartel control? The Mil. (CIA, FBI, Homeland, etc.) should have lots of experience with this type operation in actual battles in previous wars. We know these operations have been run across our country in the last couple years, unannounced, this is the first I've seen publicly posted. Just curious as to opinions. Reminds me of an RFQ for a system to detect a single 22LR cartridge on a person walking the DC (WH) mall. Spent some company money working on a ridiculous idea.
Just received this link - speak from an admiral.
http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=51fe948515b4
All our exercises are coordinated with local political officials and LEO well in advance and advertised in the local media. Wether we are in a large city such as Denver, or or a smaller town such as Yakima or Klamath Falls, we don't want to alarm the locals so we make sure as many people know what is happening as possible. I was usually there at the training site well in advance to coordinate things like housing, hanger space and vehicle rentals which all help the local economy. Everybody I dealt with knew about the exercise well before I arrived. But while dining in local eateries I would hear the old "black helicopters" rhetoric which would just make me laugh, seems many didn't read the papers or watch tv. Like I said, these exercises helped us to be able to take many an airfield in Afghanistan and Iraq with minimal losses.

seaboltm
03-22-2015, 02:59 AM
The militarization of the police I do have a problem with. Especially when they gather a SWAT team, and serve a "no knock" warrant over something minor.... and do it at the wrong house.

Agreed, and for full disclosure I am former LEO.