Most economical way to cast bullets soley for the 45 ACP

[atl5029]

Hi all,

Pretty new to the forum here. Most of my posts are over on the paper patching forum as a means to try to get my Mosin project gun to shoot well. But I think I am about to get into casting. Here's where I'm at...

First off, I am only really interested in casting for my 45's now. I shoot copper bullets exclusively in all of my hunting rifles...shooting lead at high velocity into things I am going to eat never really sat well with me. But for targets and bad guys, I don't care what I shoot them with. My main carry and range practice gun is a 45 ACP, and I intend on getting 2 more 45's in the near future, so I'm going to be shooting a lot of 45. That said I am looking to get into casting my own bullets for cost saving reasons. I am also looking to get into it from a training/self defense perspective as well. It is best to train with the ammo you carry, but I'm sure no one wants to shoulder the cost to use their expensive hollowpoint ammo to train with. With casting, I think I could cast a good hollowpoint I could both train with cost effectively and carry for self defense.

So here is what I am looking to do: I would like to cast a good hollow point bullet for the 45 ACP in the 200-230 grain range, preferably closer to 230, the simplest and most economical way possible. I'd rather not spend a ton of money every little piece of equipment to make things faster and easier, so I'd rather do things like pan lube and run them through a sizing die than buy a lubrisizer. I don't mind the extra work involved. I'll spend money on a few good pieces of equipement though.

Can you guys give me an idea of what some of the best HP molds are, what the most economical way to lube and size bullets is, and the minimum equipment I would need other than a mold, pot, ladle, and some lead? I already hand load so I have that whole process down. Any suggestions on the best HP bullet design? I was thinking I'd like to copy something like the hunter supply pentagon HP.

Thanks everyone!

[Echo]

Several points. First - get a good coach for you pistol shooting. If you don't, you will learn bad habits, and practice them until you get real good at doing bad things. Check locally for pistol clubs and see about classes, or whatever.
Second, if money is a problem, use Lee equipment. Buy a 20-lb pot and a 6-cavity mold (with handles) for a RN 45ACP boolit, non-tumble lube. One can TL any boolit, so get the mold that will be flexible enough so that in the future, you may lube/size them in the regular way if you choose. At 45 velocities, you don't need HP boolits, and they can be a pain to cast, sometime. Their 452-228-1R is my recommendation for a mold to suit your requirements. Generally speaking, there is no need to size them, unless they show to be too fat to chamber nicely, when correctly seated. If that happens, sizing will be necessary, but the Lee sizing system is very effective, and pretty inexpensive. Tumble lube them, as shown in stickies hereon, and use Recluse (45-45-10) loob. Follow the directions in his sticky, and you will have no problems with leading (given the boolits are of a suitable size).
It is possible to get all this equipment maybe $150, you will have a really good start into the addiction of boolit casting, and you will be able to turn out really good ammo, inexpensively.

[trixter]

You will need a pot for melting the lead, I prefer the RCBS Pro Melt, but any will work. For HP molds, MP molds from Slovania are for me the best money can buy. They are made of brass, a little heavy, but you get used to it, and actually when I got mine, it came with two sets of pins, hex hollow point and standard round hollow points. I got the 200gr 4 cavity mold and Lee handles are a direct fit. So you can cast hex, round and then 230 gr solid point, all with the same mold. fill, cut sprue, open, lightly touch the pins, they fall out. Look them up.

[country gent]

I still cast over a burner and pot with a ladle. A turkey frier coleman camp stove weed burner or other burners can provide the heat source. A cast iron pot, steel pot dutch oven or reworked 24lb propane cylinder van all make a good pot. Look for a rounded bottom as it makes laleing the last little bit a little easier. As to moulds Lee lyman rcbs accurate or others. Also dont hesitate to buy used moulds if available. Look them over good and if no dings or odd wear patterns show thay are probably good. A thermometer is very handy to have so actuall temps are known. A good ladle lyman rcbs or rowel. A dedicate long handled spoon for skiming. Most can be found at thrift shops and or walmarts dollar general or even garage sales. As to lubing a tumble lube lee desighn can be lubed with liquid alox no sizing really needed. The lee sizers are good also. Lubes ( depending on hardness and type) can be pan lubed or even worked into grooves with your thumb. It isnt always the equipment that makes quality but the care and skill used to make it.

[Frank V]

atl5029

Welcome to the forum.

I'd think about a hollow point mould before I got one. HPs are slower to cast & if you use lead that is the least bit hard probably won't open @ .45ACP velocities. If these bullets are primarially for practice I'd probably get a good round nose or possibly SWC design. Most 1911s will feed SWCs nowdays & those could be used for hunting if you wanted. In a pinch for defense too though I don't use handloads for defense because it could be brought up against you in court if you did use handloads.
Good luck, casting & shooting bullets you have made is a rewarding hobby.

[Love Life]

Yardsale camp stove (Coleman white gas)
Cast iron pot or stainless pot
Ladle
NOE or MP hollowpoint mould (even one of the HP'd Lees from Hollowpoint moulds)
Lee sizer
LLA

Done.

[bruce381]

for simple and cheap forget the hollow pt mold hard to cast with as a newbie and expensive.
Get a 2 cavity LEE mole 230 or 200 gr TL (tumble lube)

Coleman stove
Old tuna can
Old spoon
Lee TL mold

Get used to casting.

Use TL lee mold, tumble boolits in lee tumble lube shoot as cast no sizing.

Simple as it gets

[bangerjim]

You will save sooooooooooooooo much $$ by casting vs buying your 45's, why not just buy a Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot for around $60 and do it right. You will never be sorry using a bottom pour....and the Lee is very reasonably priced compaired to the other pots mentioned.

Fast......efficient.....repeatable. At lease for me and many thousands of others casting boolits. Once you get rolling, you will crank out hundreds of slugs at a time!!

Just read and follow all the guidance about mold pre-heating and timing as listed on here.

I keep the camp stove for camp cooking. :drinks:

banger-j

[Screwbolts]

I also say LEE 20 pound bottom pour, but I would go with the 220V version, wish I had years ago. Lee six banger mold. skip the HPs, It's a 45, use a Flat point of some kind. TL boolitz to start. You will never look back.

Titan is a sponsor here:

http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/bullet-molds/45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt/lee-6-cav-mold-tl452-230tc-

http://www.titanreloading.com/melters/lee-pro-4-20-lb-melter-220-volt

http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-sizing-kit/lee-liquid-alox-bottle

[Blackwater]

When I first started casting in earnest, back in the very early 70's, all I had was a Lee 2-cav. mould and their lub cutters that they don't offer any more. Used a bent soup spoon to pour with into the mould. That's it. Didn't even have a thermometer. Yet, I made an awful lot of pretty darn good bullets with that setup. I used a sauce pan the wife had to melt in (thereafter ONLY to melt in), used the stove as a heat source (had a vent to the outside), and just watched how long it took the sprue to guage temp by. I thought I was in hog heaven! Was getting my WW's free and lube was cheap enough even a college student with 3 jobs could afford it. Primers and powder went a long way. Used 700X for low powder charge levels so as to stretch out my shooting dollars. It's quite possible to "get by" and still produce an awful lot of very good bullets by simply learning to pay attention to what you're doing. That's pretty much how many of the old timers and pioneers did it, and they were shooting for their life or sustenance with every shot they took. Not much room for "also ran" bullets in those applications.

However, having said that, and liking being "spiled" by the plenty we have to choose from now, if I were starting now, I'd get a 6-cav. Lee mould, a Magnum Melter pot (just like the one I have now), a casting thermometer, and probably a Lee push through sizing kit, and have at it. When I got flush, I'd add a sizer/lubricator. They ARE nice. Keep an eye out for garage and estate sales, and you may luck into this equipment at a VERY attractive price. Then it's just a simple matter of getting "baptized" in the practice, and gaining experience, and keeping your eyes open and noticing what works and what doesn't work as well, and what seems to be affecting the less desirable results. Main thing is watching your metal and mould temp. Get that right, or close, and you'll be casting first rate ammo sooner and better than you'd likely have thought. And keep hanging around here. I've learned more here than in 20+ years of casting on my own. No joke. There's a lot of very well informed and educated folks here who have info that you and I don't, and they're awfully generous with their knowledge, experience, education, training and any insights they've picked up doing what we all do here. If anyone comes here and doesn't learn, he's just not paying attention or putting forth effort on his own, and nobody can help folks like that. I think you'll really surprise yourself with your initial results. It really doesn't take long to get good bullets, and with the help here, it won't take long to get really good ones, if not great ones. The archives are a good place, along with the search facility, to look up questions you have, and these searches will likely give you a more thorough understanding of any question you have than the quick, sound byte type responses we usually provide here. Just a FWIW. Hope it helps you get started and on the right foot from the start. In all liklihood, you'll be impressing your own self with your results very quickly, and the other guys at the range as well. Good luck.

[Patrick L]

Yup, Lee all the way. They make 2 TL molds in the 230 grain range, a TCFP and a RN. The RN should feed in any .45, the FP probably will too. To be as cheap as possible get a 2 cavity mold and ladle pour with a salvage pot and dipper. Like others have said though, the Lee 20 lb pot and a six cavity mold and handles will make the job so much faster, easier, and more productive that for about $100 total it is a no brained, at least in my opinion. You'll probably spend at least $30 for the cheap set up.

[Elkins45]

You can't get a hollow point mold economically. The MP molds take years to get. NOE can usually be bought off the shelf but a 4 cavity HP will be close to $150 with shipping.

My advice is to buy a Lee six cavity tumble lube design and a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox. If you have a heat source and a steel pot you can make a whole pile of bullets for under $100.

[gloob]

99% of casters do not cast HP's for 45ACP.

Most people cast to save a few bucks. But if you are casting only high effort, low volume hollowpoints for occasional SD use, you will literally save only a few bucks!

Now there are a few folks who do have a 45ACP HP mold for occasional use. But 99% of them also have a regular mold, too.

I'm not telling you what you want to do. Only you know that. Just laying out facts.

[fredj338]

I am not a fan of ladle pouring but that is the cheapest way to go. A bbq burner, small cast iron pot & dipper, mold of your choice, Alox type lube, no sizing. That would be the cheapest. I prefer a bottom pour pot, Lee 20#, don't bother with the 10#.
HP, yeah great, but you will spend at least $100 for a mold. See Erik's sight @ Hollow Point Mold Specialist.
http://www.hollowpointmold.com/forsale/sale-pictures/?item=212
As to practicing with your carry ammo. Why? As long as the ammo has the same recoil impulse, doesn't matter if it is a LHP, JHP, or solid. So most of us use solids & save the HP for serious use. I love my 45 LHP but really, I doubt you can make a better bullet than the Federal 230gr HST. If you only want to buy one mold though, one of Erik's or step up a bit in price & get an NOE 4cav.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=268&osCsid=hdo9825gurcmlrmj7e5e172di1

[gunoil]

l have this for sale below: free ship/free handles $65 ttd.


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/DDAD661B-9CB9-4857-9B85-13B6AA5D201F_zpssbkcgxp1.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/DDAD661B-9CB9-4857-9B85-13B6AA5D201F_zpssbkcgxp1.jpg.html)



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brevity&misspelling rampant

[Wayne Smith]

Couple of points - I've been ladle casting over a Coleman stove and using a kitchen pot for fifteen plus years. I have the Mihec mold mentioned above and it is a wonderfully versitile mold. I have no idea if Miha has any on his website currently available or not, but if he does grab one. You will never be sorry. You will, probably sooner than later, want a lube sizer, so keep your eyes open for one of the RCBS ones. The speed and convenience is amazing, and you are shooting 3 45's! You will want a lot of bullets quickly. That means a multi cavity mold and a lubesizer. I am not a Lee fan but I have a lot of their molds. If you use them gently they will last. Their six cavity molds are worth the money.

[MBTcustom]

The Lee 4-20 pot is the most economical way to cast good bullets. The smaller ten pound pot is not what you need for what you are doing. (I speak as a man who used to blow 600 45ACP every weekend).
The coleman stove and SS pot works very well, but I shelved mine when I realized that the cost savings in white gas would pay for my Lee pot in a matter of months.
As to a HP mold, you can do no better than buying a mold from Accurate molds, and sending it to Eric at hollowpointmold.com to be modified.

That said, there are a couple of things about your OP I would like to address if you would permit me.
First, you say you hunt with pure copper bullets in your rifles to reduce your risk of lead exposure, but now you want to spend hours every week laboring over a pot of molten lead?
Lead is not nearly as dangerous as the media would have you believe, and if you get yourself checked at the doctor, you will find he tells you that your lead levels are normal. Meaning you already have lead in your system, and it's normal for it to be there. What is dangerous is for you to get an abnormally high amount of lead in your system which can only be accomplished by ingesting a pretty good sized piece which spikes your system over time as it dissolves, and leaches into your system, or if you breath or ingest lead dust or vapors regularly over a long period of time (which simulates having eaten a solid piece and it dissolving into your system).
I have been casting for 20 years and I have always been religious about washing my hands. As to lead fumes, I don't hang my head over the pot, but I don't pay it much mind other than that.

Secondly, you say you want a HP design for self defense.
This is completely unnecessary with cast lead bullets, especially in a 45ACP. Jacketed bullets require a HP, because the projectile is so strengthened buy the jacket that it simply will not open otherwise. Since you have no jacket on a cast bullet, this is no longer required because you can adjust your alloy for the performance you desire. Essentially, you are shooting lead bullet cores without a jacket, and they can be exceedingly devastating if used in the right (or wrong) way. See the link in my signature line.

I would recommend you buy Lee 6 cavity semi wad cutter tumble lube molds, buy 45-45-10 lube from White Label Lubes, and shoot COWW cut 50/50 with pure lead, and add 2% tin.
That will do all you require and then some.

[atl5029]

Thanks for all the information guys. One of you asked why train with your carry ammo? Other than recoil impulse, it helps to have the same POI and overall familiarity with the ammo you shoot all the time in an SD situation.

Money isn't really a "problem" for me, I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on equipment to try to save money...I do that a lot lol. I realize I'll save money in the long run, but as one of you said, it isn't always the equipment that makes good bullets. Thank you to those who suggested good molds, I'll look those up. I'm interested in the one that can cast solids and HPs since HP are apparently hard to cast. If I can find a bottom pour pot for as cheap as $60 bucks I'll consider that too.

Couple other things...

I have heard it is hard to cast with a 6 cavity mold because by the time you get to the last couple bullets, the mold has cooled down. Is that true? How do you get around that?

Also just curious if anyone wears any kind of mask or respirator while they are working over their lead pot. I realize that most people don't worry about inhaling lead that much if they work in proper conditions, but does anyone take that extra precaution?

[Budzilla 19]

Lee 20# bottom pour pot,Lee 6 cavity mold, Lee push through sizer, Ben's Liquid Lube, really all you need to start casting and producing MASSIVE amounts of .45 230 grn RN boolits !!! Can't get any simpler. AND you will love the results!! Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

[atl5029]

Thanks for the input as well goodsteel, I'll take that into consideration. My reasons for shooting the all copper bullets like Barnes just doesn't have to do with lead exposure, it also has to do with meat damage, as your link points out. I did used to hunt with normal jacketed lead bullets like core-lokts nosler partitions. I only switched to barnes because I had a rifle that wouldn't shoot anything else, and then I started noticing that they killed just as well without creating huge areas of bloodshot meat, and penetration is unrivaled by any expanding bullet. Not saying they are better than any other bullets, I just prefer them for my own reasons.

And yeah I realize that shooting game with copper bullets then casting my own bullets seems very hypocritical. I am aware that my exposure risk will go up and I want to make sure I am doing it right so I don't ingest or inhale a bunch of lead. I am an avid fisherman and shoot airguns a lot, so I handle lead quite often and make sure to wash my hands. As for inhalation, other than working outside, is there any way to avoid lead exposure from casting?

[HeavyMetal]

atl5029

welcome to the madness, LOL!

Casting can be tricky to pick up or not depending on how handy you are.

Erik at Hollowpointmold.com canget you into a 2 cav HP mold in the 90 buck range which is a good starting point for you.

Strongly suggest you visit his web site and view pictures before buying, lots of visual info there see it!

Next Miha makes great molds, I have Two, but the 45 HP molds go very fast ( last one on here snapped up in two minutes at list price) and he is slow on delivery because he is very very busy!

The 6 cavity molds are not hard to keep hot, I use two at a time and rotate them off an exposed coil hot plate.

This can make a pile of boolits and fast! Buy the Lee 20# pot to get started you can add a second one later if the whole program works for you.

A lot of decisions need to be made by you before you spend a dime, for me tumble lube was a waste of time and effort, the push pull sizers like Lyman and RCBS are slower than all get out.

The Star is the leader of the pack both for speed and accuracy, my own tests have shown me that nose sized boolits shoot more acurrately than those run through a push pull machine, but Star are pricey and a little hard on a newbie to set up but once running make lots of lubed boolits in a hurry!

My suggestion:

Buy a 2 cav Lee HP from Hollowpointmold and then pan lube with Carnuba red shoot some and decide if this will work for you, if it does step up to a couple six cavity SWC Lee's for practise, you can use the same load for the swc and the hp as long as you don't try to get lightspeed out of the loads.

Keep asking questions were here for you

[MBTcustom]

Thanks for the input as well goodsteel, I'll take that into consideration. My reasons for shooting the all copper bullets like Barnes just doesn't have to do with lead exposure, it also has to do with meat damage, as your link points out. I did used to hunt with normal jacketed lead bullets like core-lokts nosler partitions. I only switched to barnes because I had a rifle that wouldn't shoot anything else, and then I started noticing that they killed just as well without creating huge areas of bloodshot meat, and penetration is unrivaled by any expanding bullet. Not saying they are better than any other bullets, I just prefer them for my own reasons.

And yeah I realize that shooting game with copper bullets then casting my own bullets seems very hypocritical. I am aware that my exposure risk will go up and I want to make sure I am doing it right so I don't ingest or inhale a bunch of lead. I am an avid fisherman and shoot airguns a lot, so I handle lead quite often and make sure to wash my hands. As for inhalation, other than working outside, is there any way to avoid lead exposure from casting?

Lead exposure to fumes is a consideration, but it's not nearly as big an issue as ingesting. Just cast in a well ventilated area (I just open the garage door) and you'll be fine.
Lead poisoning is a cumulative thing, and you actually have to work at it pretty hard if you're being religious about washing your hands. Also, the risk is astronomically greater for children than for adults. Once your brains are fully developed, the risk is greatly reduced.
That said, I was playing with cast lead bullets when I was 4 years old, and have been ever since. My health is in fine condition and I graduated college with a 4.0 GPA.

Concerning your meat damage, you will learn that each projectile has a certain speed at which it is properly used, and you must operate that projectile within that range of speed, or you will either experience massive meat damage, or you will experience expansion failure (pencil sized hole in and out). That goes for cast bullets as well. Match the hardness and nose profile to the application and you have total freedom to make it behave any way you see fit, and cast lead is much more versatile than jacketed bullets. With the same bullet at the same speed, I can make it explode on impact, or pencil through 4 layers of clothing just by the alloy I cast with, and whether I drop the bullets into a bucket of water, or onto a soft towel on my bench.

With 45ACP, I carry it loaded with H&G #68 clone semi wad cutters, cast of 95.6/2.2/2.2 (COWW with levelized tin/antimony content) and the bullets get air cooled.
In the winter, I use the exact same thing but water quenched to help get through the cloths the bad guys are wearing.

In contrast, when I carry jacketed ammo, I insist on either Hornady Critical Defense, or Federal Hydra-shoks in the summer, but switch to FMJ RN with a filed flat on the noses in winter.

[blackthorn]

Lots of good advise given so far! One thing I did not see mentioned is that if you are going to use a bottom pour pot and your lead source is scrap of any kind, do the initial melt/flux in a separate pot. Do this so that no crud, dirt etc. gets into your mould/bullet. Get a used steel cook pot (Goodwill) (Wife) (etc.) or cut down an old 20 lb. propane tank. Do NOT use an Aluminum pot!!! Used for smelting, even a thick Aluminum pot will fail, usually at the most inopportune moment. Lots of good information to be found just in reading the "stickys" at the head of each forum subject heading.

[bangerjim]

Thanks for all the information guys. One of you asked why train with your carry ammo? Other than recoil impulse, it helps to have the same POI and overall familiarity with the ammo you shoot all the time in an SD situation.

Money isn't really a "problem" for me, I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on equipment to try to save money...I do that a lot lol. I realize I'll save money in the long run, but as one of you said, it isn't always the equipment that makes good bullets. Thank you to those who suggested good molds, I'll look those up. I'm interested in the one that can cast solids and HPs since HP are apparently hard to cast. If I can find a bottom pour pot for as cheap as $60 bucks I'll consider that too.

Couple other things...

I have heard it is hard to cast with a 6 cavity mold because by the time you get to the last couple bullets, the mold has cooled down. Is that true? How do you get around that?

Also just curious if anyone wears any kind of mask or respirator while they are working over their lead pot. I realize that most people don't worry about inhaling lead that much if they work in proper conditions, but does anyone take that extra precaution?



6 cavity molds are VERY easy and efficient to use. Do not be scared of them!!! Once you heat them up on your hotplate to casting temp, your filling keeps the mold up to temp. It only takes me about ONE second to fill each cavity. You start with one end under the spigot, lift the lever, let the lead pool and move to the next cavity....all in one smooth movement.....all 6 filled in about 7 seconds. Keep the flow going from one to the next. Fast, efficient and fun! I do this all the time and get 99.5% good boolits every time. The key is a HOT mold! That is where your electric hotplate comes in at first.

In fact, the only problem I have ever had is the 6 cav's get TOO HOT....not cooling down!!!! If that happens (puddle cools too slow) just slow down and let the mold sit open for a few seconds.

I love large-cavity molds. I have several brands. But have 20+ Lee 6 bangers with no complaints. Lots-o-boolits in not much time!!!!!!!! 2 cav's are just too slow for my needs....I have a lot of them also. Some profiles are just not avaialbe in 6's.

Check Amazon for sellers that have Lee 4-20's. Good pricing!

enjoy the hobby!

bnager-j

[ridenclimb]

As many others have mentioned the Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot is great for cranking out a lot of bullets. Had the 10# pot and it is not the best choice for high volume casting. I use a lee 6 cavity 200gr SWC mold. The combination of the 20# pot and 6 cavity mold will allow you to very economically cast A LOT of bullets. Once you get the mold up to temp just cast at a steady pace and you are good to go. Preheating the mold is highly recommended. If you fill a cold mold and force the sprue plate you will likely break the cam lever on the lee molds. Speaking from experience when I first started casting. Preheat the mold. Then pour first two cavities dump bullets, pour four cavities and dump the bullets. Then fill all six as mold will have enough heat in it at that point. Once mold is up to temp the sprues cut easily and you can crank them out. Since using this procedure no problems with broken cam lever and better bullets sooner in the process.

I don't pan lube or use a lubrasizer. Instead I prefer to powder coat my bullets. See numerous threads in the coatings and alternatives section of the forum. I have reloaded cast bullets with traditional lube in the past and they gum up the reloading dies and are smoky if shooting indoors. Powder coating works better for my needs. I crank out 45 ammo on a dillon 650 usually 500-1000 per sitting. I shoot at least 10k rounds of 45acp per year. My cast loads shoot just was well as anything I have bought commercially.

With regard to respirators - if you are smelting wheel weights - I would highly recommend one. For just casting bullets outdoors I think this is overkill.

Good luck and happy shooting. I learned a great deal reading this forum. Filled with lots of helpful people who speak from experience. Read read read and then settle on what works for you.

Oh one thing I will mention is I would recommend you cast with at least safety glasses if not a face shield as well as leather gloves. Unlikely you will have a problem if you are careful but if you do they go a long way to saving you from being badly burned. The tinsel fairy can be a mean bitch!

[MBTcustom]

6 cavity molds are VERY easy and efficient to use. Do not be scared of them!!! Once you heat them up on your hotplate to casting temp, your filling keeps the mold up to temp. It only takes me about ONE second to fill each cavity. You start with one end under the spigot, lift the lever, let the lead pool and move to the next cavity....all in one smooth movement.....all 6 filled in about 7 seconds. Keep the flow going from one to the next. Fast, efficient and fun! I do this all the time and get 99.5% good boolits every time. The key is a HOT mold! That is where your electric hotplate comes in at first.

In fact, the only problem I have ever had is the 6 cav's get TOO HOT....not cooling down!!!! If that happens (puddle cools too slow) just slow down and let the mold sit open for a few seconds.

I love large-cavity molds. I have several brands. But have 20+ Lee 6 bangers with no complaints. Lots-o-boolits in not much time!!!!!!!! 2 cav's are just too slow for my needs....I have a lot of them also. Some profiles are just not avaialbe in 6's.

Check Amazon for sellers that have Lee 4-20's. Good pricing!

enjoy the hobby!

bnager-j

Jim's got it right. Lee 6 cavity molds are fantastic for pistol shooting. Use a hot plate and enjoy draining your lead pot making tons of nice bullets.
The Lee 6 cavity mold is in the top three best innovations to be offered to us bullet casters in the last 50 years.

[mongoose33]

In my opinion, you're wasting your time with hollow point molds. Your POI isn't going to be meaningfully different at self-defense distances. Get a good round-nose mold and you'll have something that will feed reliably. Carry commercial SD ammo.

Don't overthink this.

My 2 cents--and welcome!

[JohnH]

Casting for 45 ACP is a waste of time. It can't be done economically, the pictures you see of stuff that people claim to have cast is really just lathe turned. every one is lying about how simple this is. I will offer you a really good price on thie stuff you have already gathered up so you can get out without having to explain to your wife how you lost your shirt on yet another bad idea. I'd hate to see a fellow shooter on the outs with their sweetheart. Just drop me a PM and I'll do all I can to help you out.

[wv109323]

I will add a couple comments that I did not see in others responses.
Others advised to stay away from HP bullets. I agree. The RN is the most reliable design in the 1911. Next is the 200 gn. SWC. A HP is way down the list on reliable feeding You want reliability over the HP for SD. We fought 2-3 wars with the 230 RN bullet.
I would also add that you need a hot plate to pre-heat the mold. That saves a lot of rejected bullets while the mold is heating up. IIRC I gave $12.00 for mine.
If you go with a 2 cavity mold you may get by with less than a 20 lb. pot. If 4 or 6 cavity get the 20 lb. pot. I like the bottom pour pots as opposed to ladle casting.
Lee molds are inexpensive. You will have around $55.-60.00 in a 6 cavity mold and handles. 2 cavities are 20-25.00 ( handles included). They are a bargain for the price but need maintenance over time. There are custom molds that last a lifetime. Custom molds will be 2 -2.5X the price of Lee and with SOME there is lead times.

[mongoose33]

I've been thinking about this some more; let me offer a view that comes from someone who started casting last summer, so I'm a relative newbie at this--but also someone who is a lot closer to where you are than to some of the grizzled veterans here. :)

To some degree, and sometimes to a great extent, you get what you pay for. I have several LEE molds and they work OK; I also have a couple Accurate molds, and they are the cat's meow. One of the LEE molds is slightly misaligned (I'm going to see if LEE will replace it). The others work OK, but I've noticed an inherent difference in the LEE compared to the Accurate: the LEE has less aluminum in it!

Here are a couple of molds compared: one is the LEE 356-125-2R 9mm mold, a six-bullet mold; the other is the Accurate 356125E mold, a four-bullet mold. Both are in aluminum.

Here's a pic of them side-by-side:

134545

I weighed them; the Lee is 753 grams, the Accurate is 720 grams; HOWEVER, the LEE includes the Sprue Handle which the Accurate does not, and accounting for that, there's really no difference in weight.

Why no difference in weight when the LEE is a six-cavity mold while the Accurate is only a four-cavity mold? Here's the answer, with the Accurate mold on the left:

134546

There is at least as much mass in the Accurate mold at only four cavities as in the LEE at six cavities.

It's a sturdier mold, and IMO has several advantages:

1. More mass means less cool-down. I'd noticed w/ the LEE that if I fill the mold starting with the cavity furthest away from the handles, the first cavity (by the handles) would not fill well. Why? The delay in moving from last to first means the first cavity cools down too much by the time I get to it; I have to fill first to last to account for that, but it's indicative of the difference in mass.

2. The boolits release better from the Accurate than from the LEE. I've smoked them both and the LEE is just a little finicky.

3. I tried something last night I'd read here on Castboolits; someone (I wish I could remember who, I'd credit him) uses their gloved thumb to flick the sprue plate open, instead of a mallet or stick to knock the sprue plate open. By damn, it works, and it greatly sped up the process. All I had to do was invert the Accurate mold, tap the hinge with my gloved hand once or twice, and the bullets fell free. Amazing.


I know--believe me I know--that when you start something like Casting Boolits, you aren't sure that you'll want to continue; thus dumping a lot of money into it seems counterintuitive. However, I wish I had an Accurate mold for every LEE mold I have; in fact, I may sell them off to generate money to buy more.


Here's the downside, and it's considerable: The Accurate mold you see cost me $137 and that didn't include the handles. You can specify how many cavities you want when you order, but each additional cavity doesn't cost that much more; four seemed like a reasonable number, and it is.

To bring this back to your original question about .45ACP, I also have an Accurate mold that produces 200gr RN FP boolits. These are my plinking bullets for my .45. That mold is a 3-cavity, cost me $125 in aluminum, compared to a 2-cavity in LEE that would cost you around $21 including the handles. (!)

I keep finding over time that opting for the cheapest route almost inevitably leaves me dissatisfied. It's not that the LEE molds can't produce decent boolits; they can. It's that the finicky nature of my LEE molds, compared to the Accurate molds, makes it harder to get the process down. At least, it did for me.

I'll leave you with this photo; this is a 4x7' sniper target at 100 yards; the 11 holes you see surrounding the 1-foot bullseye are from the 11 rounds I shot out of my XD-45, standing offhand (no rest), using my own handloads and, most satisfying of all, using my own .45 Boolits out of the Accurate mold. This is what you're heading for.

134547

Good luck; enjoy the journey!

[rsrocket1]

My old Thompson Auto Ordnance 1911 shoots round nose bullets very reliably at lots of different COL's but often chokes on SWC's unless the geometry is within a very small tolerance. For my very first casts, I chose the Lee TL452-230-TC 6 cavity mold and ma very glad I did. Whether you choose TL or traditional lube groove personal. I currently tumble lube my 45ACP and 38/357 bullets because the guns I shoot them in do not lead at all with that type of bullet. I do powder coat my 9/40 bullets because my M&P barrels do lead slightly and PC'ing gets rid of all that. The cost is an extra two hours per 500 bullets to powder coat and size them. The 45 and 38 bullets are tumble lubed (5 minutes for 500) and not sized.

Don't scrimp on getting a 2 cavity mold or anything other than a 20 pound bottom pour melter. You can easily cast 500-800 bullets in an hour with a bottom pour pot and 6 cavity mold and it would take much longer with a 2 cavity mold and/or ladle pour method. The 230 grain mold heats up quickly and keeping it cool is the battle when casting at a good pace. I do this with a sponge in a shallow plate of water but have sometimes simply touched the edge of the mold in the bucket of water I drop the bullets in (might be a dangerous practice if you cool the mold down too much and allow liquid water to remain in the cavities, but I dip with the bullets in the mold and always ensure the mold remains way above 100C).

I don't water drop the bullets for any harness qualities, I water drop them because they come out so fast that there is not enough room to drop them onto a towel and continuously shovel them off to the side for the next batch to be dropped. The beauty of the 230g 45ACP bullet is that they are so heavy that they easily drop out of the cavities as soon as I open the mold. Longer, skinnier and smaller bullets are not so eager to jump out of the mold.

The tricks are :
Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot
Lee 6 cavity molds
Keep it simple, get a rhythm, find the right combination of temperature and cadence and you can cast large quantities of quality bullets very quickly.

[rintinglen]

Contrary to popular rumor, casting HP boolits is not rocket science hard. It is slightly more difficult, and a little more finicky, but a good mold is a good mold. A four cavity NOE RG or MP Cramer mold will give you lots o'boolits relatively quickly. A single cavity Lyman style will not. What matters is the GBM--Good Boolits per Minute.

As far as speed of casting goes, I ran a test a while back when I got my MP 4 cavity H&G 68 molds. One is an HP and one is normal. Side by side, using both molds in the same fashion with alloy of the same smelting batch, I got about 10 good HP boolits per minute verses 12 regular ones. If your concern is matching practice to carry loads, it is do-able.
However, you should be able to cast about 16 good boolits per minute with a Lee 6 banger that is not an hollow point. You plan on feeding 3 45 Autos, this may well be the route to travel.

[MBTcustom]

Contrary to popular rumor, casting HP boolits is not rocket science hard. It is slightly more difficult, and a little more finicky, but a good mold is a good mold. A four cavity NOE RG or MP Cramer mold will give you lots o'boolits relatively quickly. A single cavity Lyman style will not. What matters is the GBM--Good Boolits per Minute.

As far as speed of casting goes, I ran a test a while back when I got my MP 4 cavity H&G 68 molds. One is an HP and one is normal. Side by side, using both molds in the same fashion with alloy of the same smelting batch, I got about 10 good HP boolits per minute verses 12 regular ones. If your concern is matching practice to carry loads, it is do-able.
However, you should be able to cast about 16 good boolits per minute with a Lee 6 banger that is not an hollow point. You plan on feeding 3 45 Autos, this may well be the route to travel.


The question is not "can you cast HP bullets quickly and effectively" I know that you can, and I even designed a mold for the purpose.
The question is "should one cast HP bullets and plan to use them"
What advantage does a HP mold have in a 45acp, that could not be had by just casting with a softer (read cheaper) alloy? Heck, if you want all that expansion, just cast them out of stick on wheel weights! Other than doing everything we can to make our ammo look like we have been brainwashed into thinking it should like by the bullet manurefacturers, what's the draw?
I would humbly suggest that you start by buying a nice inexpensive RN and SWC molds from Lee, make up some bullets from both, water quench half of them, and drop the other half on the bench. Then beg some samples from the fellers on this forum of bullets cast of similar alloy.
Go out out to the range with your milk jugs full of water, your water melons, and your wet phone books and see what puts you in the ideal "penetration vs. expansion" ratio.

I understand why the bullet manufacturers do the HP thing. They have a bullet that is too strong to function properly, so they have to put a big hole in the front to enhance the expansion characteristics of a bullet that would otherwise be totally unsuitable. While they're at it, they made lemonade out of their lemons by showing pictures of the bullets after they are expanded and they try to make them look like a bloomin flower o death to make all the uneducated shooters get all hot under the collar.
Personally, I don't give a dam what the bullet looks like before or after it's deployed. It's like a firecracker: size, shape, color, and fancy packaging don't matter to me at all. Just show me the hole it makes in what it was used on!
All the fancy packaging in the world doesn't really matter when you are basing the outcome of the rest of your life on how your bullet works when it hits muscle, bone and flesh.
Just sayin.

[bangerjim]

^^^^^^^^^^^^WORDS OF WISDOM^^^^^^^^^^^^. I agree totally. HP's are a waste of time in most instances. Adjust your alloy.

banger

[Bigslug]

On the subject of "economy" I look more at my time than the cost of the equipment. The goal, after all, is to be out shooting, not slaving over the loading bench.

Also on the subject of time: for something like .45 ACP that gets shot in high volume, I tend to regard hollowpoints as a soul-sucking waste of it. A good flat nose of .30"-.32" (I like the LBT LFN) will give you plenty of destruction and more penetration without the production drag of maintaining the more critical temperatures needed with nose pins. You also don't need to sweat the alloy nearly as much with a solid to get consistent results.

Continuing that topic. . .when dealing with hollowpoints or any other bullet intended to expand - especially at the low speeds of a .45 Auto - it becomes more critical that you KNOW what your alloy consists of. This is going to mean either money invested in a hardness tester to determine the characteristics of your scrounged metal, or spending money on "store bought" alloys from someplace like Rotometals.

Without stirring the pot of whether or not to carry handloads for defense, I would say that it's very easy to overthink the whole "train with what you fight with" angle. This is not NRA Bullseye with 2" X-rings at 50 yards with spotting scopes and lots of deep breaths we're talking about; this is put it inside a 4" circle at ten feet while hopefully managing to maintain control of your bladder (optional). If your practice ammo more or less duplicates the velocity and recoil of your carry ammo, that's all that's really needed.

So my suggestion - get a solid mold that lets you produce a whole mess of practice ammo in a hurry, and carry the store-bought premium stuff in the real world. Until you get some practice under your belt, it's likely that Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc...makes more reliably feeding ammo and has greater access to gelatin testing than you do. A hundred years and a few billion repetitions do count for something. . .

[garym1a2]

I agree with this post. I got a couple boxes of Gold dots in 40 and 45acp, verify they work and they are my carry ammo. I load tons of 200swc for 45acp and 175C for 40,

In my opinion, you're wasting your time with hollow point molds. Your POI isn't going to be meaningfully different at self-defense distances. Get a good round-nose mold and you'll have something that will feed reliably. Carry commercial SD ammo.

Don't overthink this.

My 2 cents--and welcome!

[chajohnson]

For 45 ACP loads I cast with a Lee 20# dripomatic and use 2 Lee 6 bangers alternately (452-228 RN & 452-195 SWC) pouring 50/50 COWW/scrap lead (roofing, cable sheathing, pipe, etc.). Alternating is the only way I can keep the molds from overheating while keeping a good cadence. I have a hard time keeping the pot full and at a decent temp at that rate. The RN I use for IDPA and SD drills and the SWC I use for Bullseye practice and competition. All are unsized & tumble lubed with 45/45/10 & loaded with a fast powder in a Lee Pro 1K. I feed a Taurus Mil Pro 145 for SD practice/IDPA and a Gold Cup for Bullseye. Both pistols function very well with these handloads. The SWC is very, very accurate in the Gold Cup. The Taurus, not so much. (oversize bore). The great part is I don't spend a lot of $$ or time on casting or loading and a lot of pleasurable time shooting. However, I do find the casting and loading part theraputic. I carry Speer Gold Dot, Short Barrel, 230 gr factory fodder for concealed carry. Why? It's what the local PD uses. Hard to get sued for that.

I have several 45 HP molds that I've played with for hunting. They really don't open up much reliably in 45 ACP. For carry, I concur that they are a waste of time. I would find them more useful if I owned a 45 LC revolver or a carbine in that calibre.