9mm lead 124 - BlueDot or Universal?

[wbrco]

Starting loading for 9x19. Picked up some 124 gn LRN.

I have Universal and BD in my inventory. Which one would you start with?

Guns are Browning HP, and XD subcompact.

[Ed_Shot]

I have excellent results with Blue Dot in 9MM using 120~125 gr boolits in CZ 75B, BHP, and Glocks with LW barrels. While "older" Lyman data specs Blue Dot at Start: 5.9 gr. and Max 8.0 gr. I found best loads with Blue Dot in the 5.8 gr ~ 6.0 gr. giving me 1050~1075 fps. I don't know how anyone fits 8.0 gr. in a 9MM case.

[HeavyMetal]

8 grains of Bluedot is a compressed load depending, of course, on the oal of the boolit itself!

I have been successfull with Lee 125 RNL casting, not the TL design, and have gotten good accuarcy and velocities in the 1450 FPS range using a 6 inch Bar sto stainless steel barrel in my Taurus PT99.

My issue has been the RNL design and I'd like to find something a bit different to use over this load. I have tried several SWC, which did not work and the TC design aren't up for it either: by the time you just kiss the powder charge and compress it just a little you have to much boolit hanging out the end of the case.

Currently I have a MiHec HP 9mm mold and when I get some casting time will try these out.

Meanwhile let me add some warnings about 9mm case's: a great deal of capacity swing in all makers! I've found some case's have more volume than others which also helps when loading Bluedot at this level. Don't just drop 8 grains in a 9mm case and seat a boolit!

If you can find a copy Ken Water's 9mm update has a considerable amount of information on case's. This includes case capacity of 7 or 8 major makers as well as info on case lengths as well.

With that info I was able to select a case with the right capacity and length for the Bluedot loads.

In the end I had a lot of fun with the high end Bluedot loads: many thought I was shooting a 357 auto pistol!

[casterofboolits]

BlueDot has been my "go to" powder for 9mm and 38 Super since the early 80's.

The boolit I use is the H&G # 275, 09-125-SWCBB sized .357 over a mid load of BD. Works well in S&W M&P, BHP, XDm 09 5.25, XD, Tanfoglio TZ75 Series 88 and even a PF9.

I was getting low on BlueDot, but lucked into a trade for five pounds last week!

[Ed_Shot]

Wish I could find more Blue Dot. Really like it in .357 but I'm saving what I have left for 9MM.

[OutHuntn84]

I use 5.9 BD with excellent results and reliable function in various pistols.

[wbrco]

So nobody recommends Universal to begin with? Obviously there is load data for it.

On the BD side, I was thinking starting at 5.6 and working up.

[leeggen]

always start low and work up. BD works great in 9 and 40 for my pistols anyway.
CD

[badbob454]

one more for blue dot.

[mongoose33]

I've used Universal, like it, but it's not a common powder where I live so I moved away from it. I actually use WST for my LRN 9mm 125-gr boolits. I've used and liked Universal in heavy JHP bullets in 9mm.

How does Blue Dot meter? I tend to steer away from flake powders unless I'm individually weighing and loading.

[GabbyM]

Always had good accuracy with Blue Dot in the 9mm. It metered fine. Probably because of the 7.7gr charge weight.
I stopped using 8.0gr under a 124 bullet due to high pressure. The 8.0 rain charge was listed by Speer for there cases and there 124gr J bullet. Speer cases must have greater internal capacity. 7.7gr is plenty hot. Can't get it in any of the European cases I tried. It's a compressed load and sorting cases is a necessity. I've opened up a lot of primer pockets by jamming 7.7gr in to small capacity cases. Look for light compression and no more. The 124 LRN seats more shallow than the 122 TC also. Making IMHO blue Dot a better powder for the round nose than the truncated cone bullets.

[scottfire1957]

Why not load some of both and shoot them? It'd be a good idea to work up loads for both powders, should one become unavailable.

[therealhitman]

I actually use WST for my LRN 9mm 125-gr boolits.

Mongoose, I am curious. What is your load for WST in 9mm? I've been wondering how WST relates to other shotgun powders high up the burn rate chart when used in really in small cases. Is it more like Clay's or the other way towards Green Dot? Inquiring minds and all...

[Ed_Shot]

So nobody recommends Universal to begin with? Obviously there is load data for it.

On the BD side, I was thinking starting at 5.6 and working up.

By all means, research some data for Universal and try it.

After many trials, the only powder I've found that rivals the accuracy I get with Blue Dot is Red Dot/Promo. I'd certainly try more powders if they were available....that's the beauty of reloading.

[OutHuntn84]

Ive used Universal with great results in 40. Just never experimented with it in 9

[Screwbolts]

I have found Universal to be extremely, extremely, extremely, sensitive in the 9mm with lead boolitz. I have tried it / loaded it with lyman 356402, Lee 356-120TC, NOE 358-135RF, both FP and HP, from same mold, and the Arsinal 358-135 RF from both a 3 cav and a 5 cav. I do not like UNIVERSAL in/for the 9mm. IMHO Bullseye is less sensitive than Universal in small cases. I will not load any more lead boolitz 9mms with universal again. 3 different 9mms firearms.

IMHO, If you load any universal with lead boolitz in 9mm cases start at least 10% below listed start load and watch for the primers flattening out the firing pin mark as you work up. IMHO Universal does not work well in small cases.

Put the same charge of universal in a 38 special that removes the firing pin strike on a 9mm primer, using a primer from the same lot and using the same boolit , you can watch the boolit fly to the target.

IMHO Universal is very case sensitive with lead boolitz.

your milage may very,

Ken

[GabbyM]

Just curious Screwbolts. Was the Universal charge being compressed. That would be the typical point where a powder gets sensitive. I've been loading Universal in my 38 Specials with good results. Copious amount of room in that case.

The way I check for pressure in a 9mm. Is with a micrometer and head expansion. With about any +P load you can measure a few tenths (.0002") expansion. Fast Powders like Bull's-eye and WW231 will generally expand a case heads at max non +P listed loads. I have had excellent accuracy with Bullseye and light bullets. Just backed off a little bit. Unique or Alliant 20/28 work a lot better in a 9mm for me at least. AA#5 was the best 9mm powder I ever tried. Never tried the WW ball powders ( WST & WSF) that are very popular.

[sandman228]

6 gr of bluedot is a decent 9mm load I used to run that all the time till I switched to red dot . I had better luck with 124 gr truncated cone bullets than round nose though .

[Ed_Shot]

That is interesting sandman228. The only load I've found to rival the accuracy I can muster with the older Lyman 358242 (120 gr) over Blue Dot 6.0 gr. is the Lee 356-125-2R over Red Dot/Promo 3.8 gr. I use the Lyman 356402 and Lee 356-120-TC but have never been satisfied with their accuracy by comparison. I was recently unimpressed with several Green Dot loads but I have some WSF loads ready when the weather clears up here. Its a journey.

[Screwbolts]

Loads were not compressed. Ken Waters would be proud of your use of a Micrometer to measure pressure. I have described the very thing several times except I use the same cases and firearm that factory cases was shot in.

Ken

[fredj338]

I never really got terrific accuracy with Universal & lead bullets in any caliber. I would prefer something like Unique or WSF in that burn range. BD is a good full power choice but often leaves unburned powder @ reduced charge levels. I am also a WST & RD fan for lower vel 9mm loads.

[mongoose33]

Mongoose, I am curious. What is your load for WST in 9mm? I've been wondering how WST relates to other shotgun powders high up the burn rate chart when used in really in small cases. Is it more like Clay's or the other way towards Green Dot? Inquiring minds and all...

I'm running 4.4 grains under 125-grain lead bullets. I've not used Clays or Green Dot in this application so I can't compare them to WST.

I took some rounds I made out today (new sized and lubed boolits) w/ this load, and out of my 4" XD-Service I was getting 1070fps through my chronograph. In my Glock w/ a Storm Lake barrel I was getting 1067fps.


FredJ338 put me on to WST for .45ACP (I know him from XD-Talk), and it was just natural for me to try to see if I could work it up for 9mm. I was trying to see if I could standardize on a particular powder.

WST is terrific for me in .45ACP using 200gr boolits.

[Shiloh]

I use Unique.

Shiloh