NEWS: ATF has decided to pull their proposed backdoor ammo ban!

[Defcon-One]

The following quote came directly from my congressman via e-mail. I would expect that it is accurate.

Hopefully the price gouging will stop now!


After considerable pressure from a bipartisan coalition in the House and from 2nd Amendment supporters from around the country, the ATF has decided to pull their proposed backdoor ammo ban.

This is a great victory for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights, but we must remain vigilant. The proposed ban was just another attempt by the Obama administration to go around Congress when the President hasn't succeeded through the legislative process.


I confirmed this here:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-atf-backs-down-on-m855-ban-for-now/

[tdoyka]

obammer will just go executive order.

[Artful]

They ain't dropped nothing - just looking for an openning that's clear to slip it into our backs

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/)



The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is shelving a proposal to ban a popular but highly lethal type of bullet, amid opposition from gun-rights advocates and hundreds of members of Congress.

The agency said in a statement on Tuesday it would not seek to issue the final guidelines "at this time." The proposal pertained to M855 "green tip" ammunition, used in the AR-15 rifle, which regulators looked at banning because it can pierce police body armor.

The ATF said it would instead wait until Americans have finished commenting on the federal regulations and evaluate their comments and suggestions before "proceeding with any framework."

The statement follows 52 senators and 238 House members joining in opposition to any attempt the Obama administration might make to ban the ammo.

"This attack on the Second Amendment is wrong and should be overturned," said Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., who started the petition. "A clear, sizeable majority of the House agrees.”

Armor-piercing ammunition for handguns has been banned since 1986 as a way to protect police officers.

The agency also said the decision was based on the "overwhelming interest in this issue and the issues raised in the comments received.”

The ATF said it has received more than 80,000 public comments and that an overwhelming number were critical of the proposal.

The Justice Department will make a final decision when all of the comments are reviewed.

Gun rights groups have argued that the ammo ban would be a backdoor attempt to ban assault weapons.

The weapons would still work without the M855s but they would no longer be capable of firing body-armor piercing ammo.

What Road Apple Horse Huey - blatant propaganda

[beroen]

Yea it looks like they didn't want to become another Obama administration scandal statistic

[Defcon-One]

So, they'll probably bring it back later, quietly, when nobody is looking and shove it down our throats?

Also note that any rifle ammunition will penetrate a Bullet Proof Vest/Police Body-Armor. It was designed to stop handgun ammo, which is what most crooks use. So the whole thing is STILL BS.

[fatelk]

I think they thought it would go through quietly like the steel core 7.62x39 ban did many years ago, or the steel core 5.45mm ban did last year.

[Defcon-One]

Gotcha!

Ban , Ban , Ban!

Maybe we ought to start banning something that they like?

[texaswoodworker]

Fellas, this not a victory yet. They WILL try this again. Do not let up on the pressure just because they said they are going to put it on the back burner for now. Make it very clear to them that we will not forget this issue and we will not allow them any slack whatsoever.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Why are there people on this site,that does not belong to the NRA????

[dkf]

The ban was not stopped for now. They are saying they will wait until after the comment deadline before proceeding. They got caught cutting out the exemption in the guide so they are making people think "we" won when there is no win.

[kens]

the following statement says it all, from the above post:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is shelving a proposal to ban a popular but highly lethal type of bullet, amid opposition from gun-rights advocates and hundreds of members of Congress."

Tell me now, exactly what ammo is not popular nor lethal? why is green tip any different?

[dkf]

Read the actual quote of what the ATF said, they did not say they are shelving anything.


Thank you for your interest in ATF’s proposed framework for determining whether certain projectiles are “primarily intended for sporting purposes” within the meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C). The informal comment period will close on Monday, March 16, 2015. ATF has already received more than 80,000 comments, which will be made publicly available as soon as practicable.

Although ATF endeavored to create a proposal that reflected a good faith interpretation of the law and balanced the interests of law enforcement, industry, and sportsmen, the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study. Accordingly, ATF will not at this time seek to issue a final framework. After the close of the comment period, ATF will process the comments received, further evaluate the issues raised therein, and provide additional open and transparent process (for example, through additional proposals and opportunities for comment) before proceeding with any framework.

[dragon813gt]

Hi,
Why are there people on this site,that does not belong to the NRA????

Because they don't care about their firearm rights and like riding on the backs of others. If they belong to another organization I'm fine w/ that. Problem is that 99% of them don't. If all firearm owners were members of the NRA we wouldn't be fighting constantly. You can't ignore and spin the will of 100 million citizens.

[texaswoodworker]

Because they don't care about their firearm rights and like riding on the backs of others. If they belong to another organization I'm fine w/ that. Problem is that 99% of them don't. If all firearm owners were members of the NRA we wouldn't be fighting constantly. You can't ignore and spin the will of 100 million citizens.

I think it's closer to 150 million now. :p

[Bigslug]

Gotcha!

Ban , Ban , Ban!

Maybe we ought to start banning something that they like?

Arbor Mist?

[dragon813gt]

I think it's closer to 150 million now. :p

A conservative figure is 100 million which is why I went w/ it. Still a very substantial number. Some estimates put it at 50% which is 158 million. I'd be happy if 50 million were members but like a lot of things in life a small percentage will shoulder the burden.

This is not a win. It's more like half time. The government is in the locker room and the coach is firing them up because they're down. Expect them to come out firing on all cylinders.

[dtknowles]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, somebody else said that but I don't know who. We never win we just get to continue fighting. People who look for the final victory don't understand the struggle. You fight until you can't anymore.

Tim

[str8shot426]

the following statement says it all, from the above post:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is shelving a proposal to ban a popular but highly lethal type of bullet, amid opposition from gun-rights advocates and hundreds of members of Congress."

Tell me now, exactly what ammo is not popular nor lethal? why is green tip any different?

"Highly lethal bullet"..........doesn't that cover 99.99999999% of all bullets/bool it's?

[dragon813gt]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, somebody else said that but I don't know who.


Origin of that is from John Philpot Curran; "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance’"

[Rooster]

Suuuuuure, they're here to help too I bet.

[TES]

Gun load master...please contact me.

[TXGunNut]

Overheard a guy in a big box sporting goods store asking where the M855 ammo was. Pretty sure he had no idea what it was.
Bottom line: if they're able to ban M855 based on this premise they will be able to ban dozens of rifle cartridges. As has been pointed out police body armor is designed to defeat normal handgun ammo.

[MaryB]

I vote for banning their jobs and disbanding the ATF


Gotcha!

Ban , Ban , Ban!

Maybe we ought to start banning something that they like?

[waksupi]

Gun load master...please contact me.


Try the "contact" button at the bottom of the page, c/o Willie

[Pinsnscrews]

If you read the premise of the Ban, it is actually Already In Place

It is already illegal to use Armor Piercing Ammo in a Handgun. Therefore, the firing of M855 ammo out of a Registered Pistol such as a TC Contender or AR style Pistol is Illegal.

Rather than a Ban, the BATFE needs to Enforce the already exhisting law and require a Surgeon Generalish warning on M855 boxes stating "it is illegal to fire this and all Armor Piercing Ammo from a Pistol"

I am on my iPad or I would get out the exact wording and Code for the quote.

[dakotashooter2]

If you read the premise of the Ban, it is actually Already In Place

It is already illegal to use Armor Piercing Ammo in a Handgun. Therefore, the firing of M855 ammo out of a Registered Pistol such as a TC Contender or AR style Pistol is Illegal.

Rather than a Ban, the BATFE needs to Enforce the already exhisting law and require a Surgeon Generalish warning on M855 boxes stating "it is illegal to fire this and all Armor Piercing Ammo from a Pistol"

I am on my iPad or I would get out the exact wording and Code for the quote.

Actually single shot pistols are one of the exemptions.... It is the AR style pistols that have caused this hoopalah.......... But I agree...if someone uses it in a pistol charge them with the existing violation....... don't ban the ammo...........

[Defcon-One]

Also, the M855 is actually less lethal from a pistol with a short barrel than from a rifle barrel (Less velocity). There is no logic here only emotion and a scheme to disarm all of us so that they can do anything that they want, like Hillary!

If you think about it, they have already successfully limited free speech (1st Amendment) using PC tactics and Race....and anything else that they can use to sway the opinions of the uninformed masses we feed and house. Most are scared to speak out. Nobody says what they really think anymore, accept maybe places like this.

[fatelk]

There is a tremendous amount of misunderstanding and misinformation about this issue going around. It is actually NOT illegal to fire "AP" ammo in a pistol. It's not even illegal to own, at least in most states.

The pertinent law prohibits the manufacture or importation of it, or sale by licensed dealer to individuals. It's quite legal for individuals to possess, shoot, buy, sell, or trade. At least that's my understanding.

The issue also, as to what gets banned under this law, is not whether it can penetrate body armor, but actual bullet construction. Specifically the steel in the core is a problem.

The liberal democrat who wrote the law specifically said that it was not intended to apply to rifle ammo, or any ammo not designed for handguns, then a few years later they turned around and used it to ban the importation of steel core 7.62x39 that was as common and cheap as dirt at the time. The steel core in the M43 round was not designed as AP and certainly not designed for a handgun, but since the soft steel core could technically fit the specific wording of the law they banned it, even though it was clearly and openly a misapplication according to the intent of the law.

Personally I thought this proposed ban was a non-issue from a practical perspective. What's out there would still be out there, no difference, still legal to own and use or buy, sell, trade privately. New stuff would still be made and sold in quantity as always, except without the almost-worthless little steel piece hidden inside the tip or the pretty green paint outside.

Politically of course it's an important win. The stuff is not a public menace or danger to law enforcement officers. They were doing it for political reasons, to show their base that they're "doing something about guns", and they just got politically overpowered and shut down, for now.

[dakotashooter2]

Excellent points. Yes it is the sale and importation that would be effected. Sadly there are no real performance based standards in the regulation.

[fatelk]

Absolutely. The law was poorly written, shamelessly misapplied, and designed to solve a nonexistent problem.

[montana_charlie]

Personally I thought this proposed ban was a non-issue from a practical perspective. What's out there would still be out there, no difference, still legal to own and use or buy, sell, trade privately. New stuff would still be made and sold in quantity as always, except without the almost-worthless little steel piece hidden inside the tip or the pretty green paint outside.
Ever since the 2012 election, the price of M855 has been 'very high' ... increased from 300/1000 to 500/1000 almost immediately after the second election of Obama.

The price has been dropping very gradually for about a year, and had almost got back to the pre-election level.
For any who were interested in 'stockpiling' some SHTF ammo, it was about to become 'affordable' again.
Within 24 hours of this ban announcement, one dealer I pay attention to changed their price on M855 from 325/1000 to 700/1000.

Another pricing aspect of M855 is the fact that NATO countries are being pressured to switch to a 'green' (non-lead) bullet.
If adopted, that puts a VERY large amount of M855 on the surplus market ... creating an ammunition class that is cheap enough to plink with.

So, with the selling price becomming reasonable, again, and a probable future of 'better days', Obama's ATF takes this action that (if successful) will surely prevent any more large stockpiles of AR fodder in civilian hands ... probably result in destruction of any large, new, surplus supply ... AND pave the way for banning any type of centerfire rifle ammo if a repeating handgun is available to fire it.

I didn't view it as a non-issue ...

CM

[fatelk]

NATO countries are being pressured to switch to a 'green' (non-lead) bullet

that puts a VERY large amount of M855 on the surplus market

I didn't view it as a non-issue ...

I didn't think about the surplus angle. You are absolutely right!

[Smoke4320]

I vote for banning their jobs and disbanding the ATF

^ +1 +1 +1

[MaryB]

M855 IS NOT AP ammo! It doesn't fit the law as written for materials and construction. Military does not list it as AP either. It is cheap soon to be a lot of surplus that Dictator Obama wants to keep out of private hands. Rumor mill has it he s going to ban sale of military brass again so it won't be on the reloading market

[khmer6]

Overheard a guy in a big box sporting goods store asking where the M855 ammo was. Pretty sure he had no idea what it was.
Bottom line: if they're able to ban M855 based on this premise they will be able to ban dozens of rifle cartridges. As has been pointed out police body armor is designed to defeat normal handgun ammo.

This!!!! Some people have no idea! People are trying to pass off m193 ammo at higher prices Cuz they think it's m855. And yes they are trying to ban all rifle ammo. Can't take our guns but try to take our ammo. Don't know if much will come out of it. But if we don't fight and voice they can make up jargon and declare all rifle above 22lr as amor piercing which is absurd!!

[Lee]

Yeah right. And this Just in...IRS will stop collecting taxes. These control monsters won't stop until they control all. George Orwell must be up to 2000+ rpm in his grave right about now......
P.S. I've got land in the mid-Pacific for sale, any of you believe ANY of this gubmint hooey.....................

[tryNto]

Still time to let your Rep. know you don't want this ban.

https://www.nssf.org/GovRel/takeAction.cfm?alertID=80492

[montana_charlie]

Still time to let your Rep. know you don't want this ban.

https://www.nssf.org/GovRel/takeAction.cfm?alertID=80492
You better be hammering out those messages because now the Democrats in Congress are trying to get the ban reinstated ... and ATF Director B. Todd Jones [is saying] all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police ...
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/13/atf-director-all-556-ar15-ammunition-is-dangerous-to-police-n1969820?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=

[TXGunNut]

M855 IS NOT AP ammo! It doesn't fit the law as written for materials and construction. Military does not list it as AP either......


Just heard that this morning. Somehow I'm not sure that will keep them from banning it.

[John Guedry]

How 'bout they ban golf clubs ? Especially putters, small easy to conceal. Or maybe golf balls, deadly missiles looking for your innocent head.