Modified Ed's Red

[slughammer]

I am wanting to make up a batch of Modified Ed's Red and I want to leave out the Acetone (to protect the finish on wood).

What I have is one gallon each of ATF, Kerosene, and Oderless Mineral Spirits

Since the original recipe is only 25% ATF I was wondering if I should increase the amount of Kerosene and/or Oderless Mineral Spirits to keep the same ATF percentage.

something like
1 part ATF
1.5 parts Kerosene
1.5 parts Oderless Mineral Spirits

or to keep the smell down a little more
1 part ATF
1 part Kerosene
2 parts Oderless Mineral Spirits

Any thoughts from the chemist out there?

[C.F.Plinker]

Just leave the acetone out.

1 Part Dexron III ATF
1 Part deodorized K1 kerosene
1 Part odorless mineral spirits (Not the water based)

Works just fine for me. Even better than Hoppe's No. 9.

[MBTcustom]

Honestly, I have noticed no ill effect on gunstocks from the acetone in the mixture. I don't know if it's because the rest of the ingredients saturate it so that it's too preoccupied to attack the stock finish or what, but Ive been using the stuff professionally for years now, and I have seen no damage to wood finish whatsoever.

Would you mind telling me what finish you have experienced damage to?

[Blanco]

my modified recipe
in 3rds
Valvoline universal ATF (lowest odor)
low odor mineral Spirits
10 Wt compressor oil
Then I add a shot of orange oil cleaner (LPS)
Cleans like gangbusters, leaves a light oil film behind and the orange oil has degreasers and smells good to boot.
I tried using it with acetone bit never liked it besides acetone will cause condensation on metal... Not good.
I never purposely put mine on wood but what got there never hurt anything.

[slughammer]

Honestly, I have noticed no ill effect on gunstocks from the acetone in the mixture. I don't know if it's because the rest of the ingredients saturate it so that it's too preoccupied to attack the stock finish or what, but Ive been using the stuff professionally for years now, and I have seen no damage to wood finish whatsoever.

Would you mind telling me what finish you have experienced damage to?
No experience with damage to finishes, just going off what I've read several times.

[Outpost75]

I just leave the acetone out. Original purpose for the acetone was to cut plastic wad fouling in shotguns. opr to speed the action of the cleaner if you clean at the range between match stages. Don't add it if you don't need it. If you are patient and let it soak a while it does the job.

[shooter93]

Tim...acetone is poison to a number of finishes. Many varnishes and oil varnish finishes even some catalyzed lacquers. I leave it out of Ed's Red myself. I've never tried to see if it hurt the finish my Gunmaker uses but I'm not about to gamble either. I do finish a huge amount of wood and have used numerous types of finishes and I keep acetone away from them just to be safe unless I'm stripping the finish. Lacquer thinner will harm a fair amount of finishes also.

[cuzinbruce]

I use it with the acetone. I have not noticed any damage but I don't leave it on the wood for long, if I get some on. Acetone is a great solvent. Hatcher's original recipe, that Ed Harris updated, used acetone, long before plastic wads. No doubt the acetone does work fine on their fouling though. Next time I mix a batch, I am going to put some lanolin in it.

[DeadWoodDan]

I made my first gallon just this year and have been cleaning every thing I can get my hands on prepping for a busy shooting season. Glad I made it b.c. my mosins and other military rifles would have broke the bank on purchasing cleaner.

Only problem I see is the newer gas tanks have "child" proof contraptions on them and orings. The oring started to dissolve a little, but found a nice all metal gas can at my brothers and it will be easier to pour. Have been using the ATF bottle for everyday use.

Curious what others are using for storage purposes?

[cuzinbruce]

I just used the metal can that the mineral spirits came in when I made it the first time. I already had everything I needed. Finished that bottle of mineral spirits so I just put it in that can. I only mix quarts though. But when I bought kerosene at the hardware store, it came in a gallon metal can. For my quart can, I just measure 8 oz of each, pour it in the can and give it a shake or two.

[Moonie]

Just made a new batch this past weekend, with acetone, for the wifes shotgun. Also, with my switching to PC I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to leave it in.

[Blanco]

Harbor freight has a 3 Pk of clear pint squirt bottles for about $2~$3
perfect for gun cleaning.



I made my first gallon just this year and have been cleaning every thing I can get my hands on prepping for a busy shooting season. Glad I made it b.c. my mosins and other military rifles would have broke the bank on purchasing cleaner.

Only problem I see is the newer gas tanks have "child" proof contraptions on them and orings. The oring started to dissolve a little, but found a nice all metal gas can at my brothers and it will be easier to pour. Have been using the ATF bottle for everyday use.

Curious what others are using for storage purposes?

[DeadWoodDan]

My main concern was if plastic was suitable for storing this mixture in, especially since I saw what it did to the o-ring on gas can. I have not noticed any issues with the plastic qt. of ATF that I am using. Assuming it is a different material able to with stand the mixture.

[MBTcustom]

I keep my Eds red in a plastic jug, and I squirt it out of a plastic spray bottle. I've only been using these two containers for two years though. Maybe one day they'll fall apart all of a sudden.
Like I said, I wouldn't expect either of those containers to last for more than an hour if I poured straight acetone in there.
Im trying to tell you that when mixed in the solution, it's not as aggressive as it is in its raw form. I've been using this stuff since I started Gunsmithing, and I have not damaged a single stock with it. I consider water to be more hazardous to wood finish than eds red.
I don't go just wiping my stocks down with it, but if I bought there was even a snowballs chance that it would harm wood finish, it would not be allowed in the shop. Especially when I've got stocks here with 20 coats of finish hand rubbed into them!
I tested this on my own firearms by wiping them down with fresh Eds red with a cotton rag, freshly wet with the stuff. No effect at all (except maybe making them look a little shinier).

So please, if anyone can give me an example of a stock that was ruined by this cleaner, please post here.

[LenH]

From what I've been told by a chemist is that the acetone will evaporate out of the solution, the last time I made a batch I just left it out.
I couldn't tell the difference.

Besides acetone comes in a plastic bottle. At least the time or 2 that I have bought it.

[Shiloh]

What C.F.Plinker said about the acetone. Leave it out.

Shiloh

[Dale in Louisiana]

Acetone will, over time, migrate through most plastics that it doesn't attack outright.

If you make the acetone version of ER use metal or glas containers and pay attention to the sealing methods, You can research the suitability of plastics with acetone on the Internet.

dale in Louisiana

[mdi]

Ed's Red doesn't require an exact formula. Anywhere close and the stuff will work pretty much as designed. Concerned about acetone? Just leave it out...

[slughammer]

my modified recipe
in 3rds
Valvoline universal ATF (lowest odor)
low odor mineral Spirits
10 Wt compressor oil
Then I add a shot of orange oil cleaner (LPS)
Cleans like gangbusters, leaves a light oil film behind and the orange oil has degreasers and smells good to boot.
....


I made up a batch and used 16 oz each of ATF, K1 Kero and Oderless Mineral Spirits

The ATF I used was Castrol DEX/MERC and it sure has some stink in it. I added most of an 8oz bottle of Goo Gone and it had little if any positive effect on the smell.

I'm temped to make up another batch using your recommendation of the Valvoline Universal ATF.

[MBTcustom]

You know, I'm looking at this the wrong way. The question is not weather or not the acetone will attack gunstocks or not. It's weather I want to pay good money for that component when so many here say it works just fine without it!
OK, you have convinced me to try it. Next time I'm going to whip up a batch, I'll make it without first and see if it works as well as the regular formula. If it does, then you guys just saved me some $$$ and I appreciate it.
Following that logic, if it works as well without the acetone as it does with, then why not play it safe and leave a potentially harmful chemical out of the mix?
That makes perfect sense to me.

[Shiloh]

Acetone will, over time, migrate through most plastics that it doesn't attack outright.

If you make the acetone version of ER use metal or glas containers and pay attention to the sealing methods, You can research the suitability of plastics with acetone on the Internet.

dale in Louisiana

I left the lid off my Coleman storage can to bleed off the acetone on my first batch. I don't add it anymore.

Shiloh

[Blanco]

Not an expert opinion here, but I have made up and tried close to 10 gallons of different combinations.
I would skip the kerosene. For all intents kero and Mineral spirits are almost the same.
I have packaged up my formula and given it as a gift. All who use it tell me it is the best cleaner they have ever tried. Almost all come back and ask for more.




I made up a batch and used 16 oz each of ATF, K1 Kero and Oderless Mineral Spirits

The ATF I used was Castrol DEX/MERC and it sure has some stink in it. I added most of an 8oz bottle of Goo Gone and it had little if any positive effect on the smell.

I'm temped to make up another batch using your recommendation of the Valvoline Universal ATF.

[pls1911]

The added lanolin leaves a sweet residual for nominal storage...
I renew it every year.

[edctexas]

I use Coleman Lantern/Stove fuel in place of Kerosine. While it doesn't have the great smell of Hoppes 9, it doesn't smell bad either. It really cleans better than most solvents I have tried. It is good stuff.

Ed C

[DonH]

I had a theory about what part acetone plays in bore cleaner and ran it past Ed Harris on the CBA forum. He confirmed it. Here is my theory:

In production of nitrocellulose propellants, the liquid stage is referred to as lacquer. Traditional lacquer used as a wood finish or sometimes as an auto finish is a nitrocellulose material; nearly or maybe the exactly the same material as the liquid stage of nitrocellulose powder. Burning this propellant leaves behind a residue containing lacquer or something akin to it. This is what the acetone in "Ed's Red" works to reduce.

"Ed's Red" was developed to duplicate as nearly as possible the old red military bore cleaner. I have used the military stuff and it was effective. All my wood stocks have Tru Oil finish on them and I have not had any damage to the finish on them. Nor has Ed's Red" harmed the painted finish on the one fiberglas stock I have. But like someone already said, I just don't leave the cleaner there if it does get on the stock.
Don

[N4AUD]

I just use the ATF and kerosene and it seems to work fine.

[blackthorn]

Quote "I use Coleman Lantern/Stove fuel in place of Kerosine. While it doesn't have the great smell of Hoppes 9, it doesn't smell bad either. It really cleans better than most solvents I have tried. It is good stuff."

Coleman fuel is often referred to as "White gas" or "Naphtha". It evaporates VERY quickly. Just get some on your hand and watch it disappear. Kerosene, often referred to as "Coal oil" does not. I do not know this for a fact, but I suspect that using Coleman fuel will result in that component vaporizing off unless the container is religiously kept tightly closed. Some time ago I mixed a batch of "Ed's Red" (one gallon) including the Acetone component. I packaged it in small glass bottles with what I thought were tight metal lids. Several months later I went to get a fresh bottle and found the liquid level had dropped significantly. I could only surmise that the Acetone content had managed to evaporate and the lids I thought were tight --- were not. Whatever is left works very well so "No harm---No foul"!!!

[Nueces]

Folks report, and my experience agrees, that Ed's Red works well without the acetone. Blackthorn reports that his full bodied ER lost it's acetone component during storage. The acetone could be wanted when cleaning an old nasty milsurp, for example.

Here's my plan: keep mixing ER without the acetone, but keep an OEM pint tin of acetone on the bench to add to my ER on those occasions calling for the full recipe.

[dondiego]

+1 on that !

[Mal Paso]

The number one penetrating "oil", better than Kroil, Liquid-Wrench, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc. Tested by consumer groups, Mechanix Illustrated etc.

1 Part ATF to 1 Part Acetone

I think there's something to the Acetone.

If you want better smelling Edd's, use Marvel Mystery Oil instead of ATF

This is my Rust Buster container. Holds pressure indefinitely. Just shake before using. The Acetone seems to stay mixed better after a few days. $32 Amazon

[MBTcustom]

The number one penetrating "oil", better than Kroil, Liquid-Wrench, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc. Tested by consumer groups, Mechanix Illustrated etc.

1 Part ATF to 1 Part Acetone

I think there's something to the Acetone.

If you want better smelling Edd's, use Marvel Mystery Oil instead of ATF

This is my Rust Buster container. Holds pressure indefinitely. Just shake before using. The Acetone seems to stay mixed better after a few days. $32 Amazon
Now that right there is pretty neat looking.

[barrabruce]

I leave out the acetone mainly because I clean my guns in the garage and have oily rags about as well.
In a confined space it'll take the wind out of you and can cause lung damage.
I find it stinks but I can't stand any paint fumes either.
If I really need the acetone in it I mix a little in with my 1-1-1 brew in a small old gun oil squeeze bottle and use it outside in the back yard.
my 2 bobs worth
found eds red to be better than wd40 for most things and cheaper.
I use the old atf plastic bottles it comes in to keep my reds red and no complaints yet.

[Yodogsandman]

Where are you guys getting deodorized kerosene? I have some Walmart lamp oil, is it the same?

[DeadWoodDan]

I got mine from ACE hardware. not sure about lamp oil.....

[Blanco]

If i'm not mistaken the LPS orange oil in the spray can has some Naptha in it?
So if you add the orange oil you get the bonus of a touch of extra cleaners. I think the Goo Gone is probably mostly Naptha which is I think the same as lighter fluid. We used to keep a can of lighter fluid around just for removing chewing gum, stickers ETC.




I made up a batch and used 16 oz each of ATF, K1 Kero and Oderless Mineral Spirits

The ATF I used was Castrol DEX/MERC and it sure has some stink in it. I added most of an 8oz bottle of Goo Gone and it had little if any positive effect on the smell.

I'm temped to make up another batch using your recommendation of the Valvoline Universal ATF.

[Jniedbalski]

Naphtha is lighter fluid. In the body shop we used naphtha to clean and de wax and clean off cars before painting. There was a summer blend and a winter blend. The summer blend was more like kerosene or mineral spirts it didint evaporate as quick. The winter blend evaporated quicker. If you took winter or low temp and used it in the summer you could watch it evaporate right in front of you. It only stayed wet on the car 5 or ten seconds. Colmen fuel is white gas. Regular low octane gas that dosent have any additives in it. Colman fuel is around 40 to 50 octane. One ingredient to rase octane is toluene but is expensive. I do believe toluene is made out of coal oil. Germany in ww2 was having a hard time getting oil to make gas. They used coal oil refined to toluene. It makes a great high octane gas around 115 120 octane but hard to light in the winter like alcohol. The old formula one cars used toluene years ago then every body went green and they started using alcohol for racing. I just mixed up my first batch of Ed’s red. The first batch I used acetone. The second batch I didint. The one with the acetone seems to clean quicker on hard fouling faster than without. My S&w model 65 stainless the face of the cylinder always had the black on it that would not come off without using a brass brush and scrubbing and scrubbing. I let it soak with Ed’s red with acetone and most came off without scrubbing. The Ed’s red I used first without acetone didn't do as well. But I might not let it sit long enuf don’t know. I like it very good at cleaning powder fouling and I also added the 4 oz of alox for rust protection.

[Jniedbalski]

Don’t know about lamp oil. I know it’s close to mineral spirts or kerosene. The first batch of Ed’s red I wanted to make I needed kerosene. Local store quit carrying it. So untill I could get some I mixed up a very small bottle of atf and lamp oil. It worked great for gun oil .i have heard lamp oil is a more refined kerosene but don’t know but it’s close

[quasi]

I use equal parts of synthetic ATF, Mineral spirits, and WD-40. It works great for me.

[odfairfaxsub]

I could be wrong but I doubt it.....I always yank carbon out so well w this. The other day I pulled a gun that was clean from the cab and ran a patch of Ed red and bam!!!! Came out black streaked. Yanks it right out of the edges and crevasse for a fraction of the price others cost.

I wipe the guns off w it, I patch the bores, I use it as a cleaning solvent, lube the press sometimes w it.

[charlie b]

I use the acetone version and leave out the mineral spirits. The acetone easily cleans out any residue from powder coated bullets.

I have a protective shield I put over the stocks of my rifles when cleaning, along with a bore guide.

[WRideout]

Don’t know about lamp oil. I know it’s close to mineral spirts or kerosene. The first batch of Ed’s red I wanted to make I needed kerosene. Local store quit carrying it. So untill I could get some I mixed up a very small bottle of atf and lamp oil. It worked great for gun oil .i have heard lamp oil is a more refined kerosene but don’t know but it’s close

I had some lamp oil on hand, so I used that too.

Different subject, when I worked in the crime lab, we used to keep acetone in plastic wash bottles. Acetone has a very high vapor pressure, so if we left the wash bottle closed up overnight, it would empty itself out, through the nozzle. After I came in to find the bottles empty a couple of times, I figured it out. I keep my Ed's Red in empty glass jars with metal lids. They work fine, but over time, the acetone seems to evaporate out, based on odor.

Wayne

[DonH]

I just leave the acetone out. Original purpose for the acetone was to cut plastic wad fouling in shotguns. opr to speed the action of the cleaner if you clean at the range between match stages. Don't add it if you don't need it. If you are patient and let it soak a while it does the job.

From the horse's mouth, or keypad, the original intent of the acetone:
A stage in production of nitrocellulose powder is "lacquer". That's right, the stuff high-end guitars are finished with. The acetone was included in the bore cleaner to cut carbon residue left in the barrel from burning nitrocellulose "lacquer".

Ed's Red was developed to reproduce the old red mil-spec bore cleaner. Harris's ingredient list duplicates the original list except with modern product names. The exception is the original contained sperm oil which is no longer available. According to Harris, Dexron ATF was developed as a "synthetic" sperm oil.

FWIW, the acetone stays in my Ed's Red and hang the smell

[Patrick L]

I mix it both with and without, use the one with for shotguns. Obviously that one gets stored in a glass bottle, with a gasket that gets checked frequently and replaced when needed. Otherwise, yes the acetone will evaporate out.

[Nueces]

I find that omitting the acetone leaves me with a wonderful bore cleaner and gun wipe. I keep a small quantity of acetone in an OEM can, so I can mix a bit in when needed. Haven't needed it yet.

[keithfan]

I always understood that Coleman Fuel (white gas) is the same thing as lighter fluid. I use Coleman fuel in my Zippos` because I always have some, and I don`t want to pay for lighter fluid in tiny, little containers.

[Petander]

Don't you use lanolin?

I find it a nice ingredient,just added some more to a little "bedroom bottle".

I use the original formula with turpentine,haven't found a need to modify.

[Ring3]

We used Coleman Fuel in place of lighter fluid in our hand warmers years ago. It worked fine. Nostalgic thinking about that now. Haven’t seen one of those warmers in years.

I use Ed’s Red with Acetone. Never had any issues doing so. Stuff works as good or better than any thing else I’ve tried. Older friend of mine put me on to Ed’s Red years ago. He was a WWII vet who shot a lot. Swore by the stuff for cleaning and lubricating.

Next batch I may try without and/or some of the alternative ideas posted here.

[WRideout]

BTW: If anybody wants to buy small quantities of acetone to use, plain nail polish remover is just acetone. I guess you could use the oily stuff too, and it wouldn't hurt anything.

Wayne