44 Magnum cast boolits for Big Game

[Make my day]

I hunt with a 10" TC contender and have a box of Cast Performance 320 Gr. WLFNGC's I want use for Deer up to Bear and Elk, anyone have any experience with this type of setup, recommend a load, tell me about performance?

Thanks

[44man]

Performance will be great. I don't have a TC but used it in my 10-1/2" Ruger SBH. I use 21.5 gr of 296 and a Fed 150 primer. Killed a pile of deer.

[DougGuy]

What is the twist rate of the TC barrel? Slow twist you might not do well with them unless you got good velocity, maybe 1300+f/s, heavy boolit you usually have to fling them pretty hard to get them to stabilize in a 1:20 barrel, LFN even harder than a RF usually. 44man pretty much nailed the load, you might could go a little more with it in the TC but I wouldn't.

Now.. How hard are they? The great thing about a GC it will let you shoot a softer alloy that would offer easier expansion at handgun velocities, personally I like to scratch my RF boolits with a thumbnail, but I am only shooting them at 1180-1200f/s out of a Ruger and it is working as well as I could want it to. I am sure Jim will have an opinion on this one too.

[MT Chambers]

I also wonder how hard those are as a lot of bought cast bullets are too hard for most hunting uses.

[DougGuy]

Here is a very favorable review of two different Cast Performance heavyweights, one of which is the same boolit we are discussing. Review authored by Jeff Quinn:

http://www.gunblast.com/Cast_Performance.htm

This is what Graf & Sons lists for these, is this the correct boolit?

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2282

Product Information

The world’s finest high performance handgun hunting bullet, the LBT SERIES HEAT TREATED SOLIDS. LBT heat-treated solids are rapidly becoming the standard by which all others compare handgun hunting bullets. This new design of bullet does not depend on expansion as do soft point and hollow point bullets, but in fact the performance level achieved by the LBT design is far superior to conventional bullets. Accuracy is generally superior. You can expect wound channel cavitations about 25% larger in diameter and up to 250% deeper than soft point bullets. Our bullets are cast from virgin alloy and heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21. This provides for a hard yet ductile bullet, which will not fragment, or blow-up on the toughest hide or even bone. Our bullets do not lead your bore. Our lube has allowed us to shoot our cast bullets in test rifles as fast as 3100 fps. Loading data is included with most bullets.

[RobS]

Cast Performance bullets are heat treated to around 20- 21 bhn. Soft is not what the company intended and with the large meplat and the right velocity you don't have to rely on expansion. Also if the right diameter one doesn't have to rely on obturation either. This company has been around for a long while for a good reason.

[Make my day]

Thanks guys, yes doughy that is the bullet.

[Make my day]

Sorry Doug guy

[Make my day]

I believe the TC barrel has a 1 in.20 twist rate.

[DougGuy]

I can see you are new to the forum, how new are you to the TC? Have you used any heavy for caliber boolits like these in it? The reason I ask, you will likely have a fairly long COA, and if the TC barrel doesn't have much of a throat, it might not want to chamber the assembled round loaded to the COA length specified in the load data. Now... If this IS the case, do not seat the boolit deeper in the case so it will chamber without adjusting your powder charge accordingly. Seating deeper and not adjusting the powder to accommodate this shorter COA will raise pressures to a VERY dangerous level. the TC is a very robust strong action, but you just don't want to go there.

I am not assuming anything about your knowledge of handloading, whether you are or are not an accomplished loader, I am just putting this out there because I know the nature of these big flat nose boolits and not going into a chamber or a cylinder throat is a common occurrance. When this happens, you can have the throat or throats reamed to accept the boolit which is the better way to do it, or you have to start loading differently which will work but it's not really the right thing to do.

Oh btw, welcome to the castboolits forum!

[Make my day]

thanks DougGuy, I have shot TC for a while but never with these bullets. I just like heavy for caliber bullets and thought they would make nice big game loads. thanks for the info, will definitely keep it in mind.

[44man]

I can see you are new to the forum, how new are you to the TC? Have you used any heavy for caliber boolits like these in it? The reason I ask, you will likely have a fairly long COA, and if the TC barrel doesn't have much of a throat, it might not want to chamber the assembled round loaded to the COA length specified in the load data. Now... If this IS the case, do not seat the boolit deeper in the case so it will chamber without adjusting your powder charge accordingly. Seating deeper and not adjusting the powder to accommodate this shorter COA will raise pressures to a VERY dangerous level. the TC is a very robust strong action, but you just don't want to go there.

I am not assuming anything about your knowledge of handloading, whether you are or are not an accomplished loader, I am just putting this out there because I know the nature of these big flat nose boolits and not going into a chamber or a cylinder throat is a common occurrance. When this happens, you can have the throat or throats reamed to accept the boolit which is the better way to do it, or you have to start loading differently which will work but it's not really the right thing to do.

Oh btw, welcome to the castboolits forum!
Good call, I missed it with my loads, I seat in the lower crimp groove. Knowing TC's a little and all the throat configurations they can have is important.
LBT's work for sure, they are softer and more ductile then mine. Yet penetration is super.
Now a little more about them from a friends experiences. Pete shot two deer behind the shoulders and nicked a bone somewhere. Both boolits turned 90* and went through guts to be found deep in the hams. Recovered boolits showed one side of the noses deformed only. They could not expand evenly the way they nicked bone.
Other then those two events, they have worked perfectly on many, many deer for both of us.
Pete is kind of a nut and shot at a deer in a field at 150 yards, the deer did not know he was being shot at and Pete seen the hits in the field so he raised his aim point enough and dropped the deer. Ex IHMSA shooter and shoots the same loads I use from his SRH.
Another friend brought a new SBH Hunter out, I did the trigger and mounted his Ultra Dot. We went to sight in and he would shoot a group with my loads, then adjust until we got 1" high at 50 yards. Every single group he shot was 1/2". We went hunting and he shot his deer in the neck. Confidence and accuracy.
The primer should not matter in a single shot but if a mag is used, drop the charge a little and work to accuracy. I think the TC will work fine. Watch your knuckle.

[Geraldo]

Make My Day, I've been shooting 300-320gr bullets in my 14" Contender for a long time. I use H110/W296 pretty much exclusively for them and they have been very accurate. Your barrel should have no problem stabilizing them. I've never had an issue with COA in the .44 TC. In fact, I've always heard the other way, that TCs usually have long throats, and my experience with them is that that is the case.

[Make my day]

44man, thanks for the feedback, nice to here about the accuracy and performance people are seeing.
Geraldo, Thanks for your input on direct experience with a TC.

All of your feedback is greatly appreciated.

[DougGuy]

I had a request to throat a TC Encore barrel so the guy could use the fine Lee C452-300-RF boolit, his was throated .451" for j-words of course, more like a 1911 barrel from the factory. I put a decent amount of throat in front of the boolit to allow it to pull crimp and gain a bit of momentum before it hit the rifling. This lowers pressure, increases velocity and as far as I am seeing, doesn't do anything to hurt groups and may improve them. The field report is not in yet because this shooter lives in the frozen north and was waiting on warmer weather to get out to the range. it will be interesting.

This is in .45 Winchester Magnum. I arrived at the amount of throat by seating the boolit out long and using it as a gauge, and used the reamer to cut the throat until at this length, the boolit was firm into the rifling as you can see it has engraved the ojive of the boolit. Seating to the bottom crimp groove gives this boolit approximately .080" of freejump before it contacts rifling.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03487%20Custom_zpsidjvsgkk.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03487%20Custom_zpsidjvsgkk.jpg.html)

Here is what the throat looks like from the breech:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03491%20Custom_zpssgvjt3ge.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03491%20Custom_zpssgvjt3ge.jpg.html)

[Make my day]

DougGuy,
If necessary, how big of a job was it to recut the throat?

Thanks

[nickE10mm]

Here is a very favorable review of two different Cast Performance heavyweights, one of which is the same boolit we are discussing. Review authored by Jeff Quinn:

http://www.gunblast.com/Cast_Performance.htm

This is what Graf & Sons lists for these, is this the correct boolit?

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2282

Product Information

The world’s finest high performance handgun hunting bullet, the LBT SERIES HEAT TREATED SOLIDS. LBT heat-treated solids are rapidly becoming the standard by which all others compare handgun hunting bullets. This new design of bullet does not depend on expansion as do soft point and hollow point bullets, but in fact the performance level achieved by the LBT design is far superior to conventional bullets. Accuracy is generally superior. You can expect wound channel cavitations about 25% larger in diameter and up to 250% deeper than soft point bullets. Our bullets are cast from virgin alloy and heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21. This provides for a hard yet ductile bullet, which will not fragment, or blow-up on the toughest hide or even bone. Our bullets do not lead your bore. Our lube has allowed us to shoot our cast bullets in test rifles as fast as 3100 fps. Loading data is included with most bullets.

Agreed about the LBT... which is why the one and only mould I have is an LBT 300gr LFN.... Looking forward to actually using it one of these days..... I need a casting kit. :)

[Ramjet-SS]

Be assured the 300 Grain LBT cast alloy Lyman #2 will take elk without any issue as always it comes down to bullet placement put it the boiler room you got your self an elk. No need for anything more than 300 grain in fact I have taken three elk with Model 29 and a 250 grain WFN. The advantage you have is no cylinder to barrel gap.

[DougGuy]

DougGuy,
If necessary, how big of a job was it to recut the throat?

Thanks

If you don't already have the tooling and have done a few of these it's daunting and expensive. It takes a special reamer and a set of pilots so you can pick the one that fits really snug, sometimes it takes two different reamers depending on the barrel, then you got to polish it afterwards.

I am already set up for barrels and cylinders, you just send me the barrel and a week later you get it back throated somewhat like the photo. I do this as a business that offers convenience to forum members, I throat and crown 1911 barrels, TC barrels, and I ream revolver cylinder throats on a daily basis. Check out my FB page in my sig if you want to see some more finished work.

Send me a PM if you need to talk about getting your barrel throated I will be glad to help. The work is very affordable.

[44man]

I had a request to throat a TC Encore barrel so the guy could use the fine Lee C452-300-RF boolit, his was throated .451" for j-words of course, more like a 1911 barrel from the factory. I put a decent amount of throat in front of the boolit to allow it to pull crimp and gain a bit of momentum before it hit the rifling. This lowers pressure, increases velocity and as far as I am seeing, doesn't do anything to hurt groups and may improve them. The field report is not in yet because this shooter lives in the frozen north and was waiting on warmer weather to get out to the range. it will be interesting.

This is in .45 Winchester Magnum. I arrived at the amount of throat by seating the boolit out long and using it as a gauge, and used the reamer to cut the throat until at this length, the boolit was firm into the rifling as you can see it has engraved the ojive of the boolit. Seating to the bottom crimp groove gives this boolit approximately .080" of freejump before it contacts rifling.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03487%20Custom_zpsidjvsgkk.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03487%20Custom_zpsidjvsgkk.jpg.html)

Here is what the throat looks like from the breech:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03491%20Custom_zpssgvjt3ge.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/45%20Win%20Mag/DSC03491%20Custom_zpssgvjt3ge.jpg.html)
Wonderful work.

[Make my day]

Thank you Doug Guy, I will let you know via PM< if I need the work done.