Exploring the 32WS Envelope

[TXGunNut]

Had a bit of success with plinking loads (16gr 2400 @ +/-1800fps) in my old 32WS 94 SRC recently and Char-Gar mentioned that the 32WS likes to go a bit faster. I've heard that before and it's been on my mind since then. I poured a couple hundred more Accurate 322-170A's and they're all sized, lubed, GC'd and waiting patiently on my loading bench. Only "problem" is I'm blessed with an embarrassment of riches, so to speak, in the powder department. A quick look thru my manuals and the Hodgdon site this morning didn't help much. I have 3031, IMR4895, LVR, 748, Rx7 and IMR4064 in amounts over 2lbs each. I have a little dab of Varget but would rather not use it. Curiously the Hodgdon site doesn't mention LVR in 170gr 32WS but when looking at 30WCF data LVR is a clear leader. Richard Lee seems to agree. I don't see much support for my Rx7 and 3031 theories other than in Lyman's 49th under a j-bullet, guess some folks feel this boolit is a bit heavy for them. I've read what a few of my manuals had to say, would like to see what's been working for some of you. Most manuals, especially Lyman's 4th CB manual, don't seem to take the 32WS very seriously.
Goal is 2200-2300fps. I don't want to stress the old girl, she's 94 yrs old and I'd like to pass her on to the next generation in the same condition I was lucky enough to find her in.

[Nobade]

Every one of those types of powder will work fine in the 32WS, in appropriate amounts. Just pick your favorite.

-Nobade

[BruceB]

Some years back I bought an excellent-condition Model 64 Winchester in .32 Special from Scheels here in Reno. A friend (and enabler at the sale) sold me a receiver sight for it, and I replaced the front sight with a Lyman 17.... the one with interchangeable inserts.


Set up like this, in the first week I owned the rifle it fired over six hundred cast-bullet rounds, ten rounds each of sixty-plus recipes.

The best accuracy I found to date with the RCBS 32-170 bullet used IMR 4350.... yes, 4350.

Serious medical problems have stopped my research, but definitely, do some experimenting with the slower powders as well.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, BruceB, didn't even consider it for this cartridge but have some on hand. Just finished loading some IMR4350 in 35 Whelen, I don't think it's supposed to work very well in that cartridge but I keep coming back to it. Can't find any published loads at the moment but will look into it.
Problem is, Nobade, I like all of those powders in other cartridges. Rx7 and LVR are pretty outstanding in other cartridges but have good results with all of them. I think I'll ladder up from 33grs LVR for today, I think Rx7, IMR3031 and IMR4350 may be worth a look as well.

[BrianL]

Some years back I bought an excellent-condition Model 64 Winchester in .32 Special from Scheels here in Reno. A friend (and enabler at the sale) sold me a receiver sight for it, and I replaced the front sight with a Lyman 17.... the one with interchangeable inserts.



A question about the sight set-up. I just purchased the sister to that rifle and I am curious as to the height of the 17 sight. I have several but I thought that they would be too high with the ramp.

[BruceB]

I'm afraid this won't be much help. With the Lyman 17A mounted, any markings are covered.

From the BOTTOM of the dovetail to the TOP of the tube measures .742". This is quite a low sight and looks right at home on the M64's ramp..... not much different than the original hood in appearance.

With the Redfield receiver sight zeroed, the line of sight nicely clears the original barrel-mounted Winchester sight. The sight picture is un-cluttered by the barrel sight.

It's a neat arrangement, and much better for my seventy-two-year-old eyes.

[BruceB]

My best 4350 load used 31.0 grains and the RCBS bullet for a velocity of 1694 average, and grouped ten rounds in 1.3 inches from fifty yards. This was fired with the Lyman/Redfield sights detailed above..... and my old eyeballs.

[BrianL]

I missed on both sides of that BruceB. I have two at .775 and one real short at .687 measuring over the whole sight body including the dovetail.

[texassako]

I love LR with cast in that .32 Rem Model 8 you got to see, especially when I remember to make sure the take down screw is tight. Hornady has the 32 WS data tested in a 94 w/ 20" barrel. The short list if you don't have that one: 165gr FTX or 170gr FP bullets, Federal 210 primers, 33.1gr start for 2000 fps, 38.5gr max at 2300 fps.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Bruce. Will put that load in my notes. I have a 2400 load that gives me similar accuracy and velocity but I don't much care for a load that fills so little of the case. Have had double-charge incidents and wish to avoid them in the future. I like the economy of relatively few grains of powder but a damaged gun would easily offset any savings.
The LVR load I chose for today fills the case nicely, 33grs is over 90%, 34grs is about 98%. I like a load that touches or comes close to touching the bottom of the boolit. If accuracy holds up I may be able to work up to 2200fps in this carbine, we'll see. My eyes aren't what they used to be but the tang sight makes the best of my presbyopic situation.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Jeff. Didn't make it to the Hornady manual yet. IME the FTX bullets are a rule unto themselves but the 170 FP data is helpful.
Hmmm...may be time for a new Hornady manual. No mention of LVR or FTX in either of them. I'll take a gander at the Hornady site.

[BrianL]

BruceB, If you have a moment, could you measure from the dovetail base to the center of the aperture? I have the two lowest American models with heights of .404 and .495 but there is a European dovetail model between them at .464 but has the smaller .360 dovetail.

[texassako]

It took me a while to find the file in my computer. Hornady sent me the data long before I bought the book when I asked them about Leverevolution in the .32 Remington. My manual is the 8th edition by the way, and I think this is out of there.

133230

[TXGunNut]

Haven't been to the Hornady site in awhile, last time I was there it had loading data.:sad: I bought my first Hornady manual partly because it had tables in the second volume. They did away with that feature in a later version but I bought it anyway. Wasn't too impressed. Still puzzled that the Hodgdon site doesn't have LVR data for this cartridge.
May spring for the latest version anyway, other than the Hodgdon annual I haven't bought a manual all year. Come to think of it, haven't cracked the annual open yet. Tonight's the night, I guess.

[crazy mark]

38 grs to 40 grs of IMR 4895 using a rcbs 32-170 in my Marlins and win seem to work good out to 100 yds. I haven't exceeded 40 grs. A max of 29 grs of 3031 works also. Start at least 2-3 grs lower. Not responsible for what will work in your guns. I know what I have shot in my guns. Mark

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Mark. I knew I wasn't the only one who thought 3031 should work here. And I will start low and work up. She's a tight 94 year old rifle but as the title says, I'm exploring the envelope, not pushing it.
WX not favorable for a range trip. Shooting buddy cancelled so I guess I'll keep my old guns in the safe today. :-(

[358 Win]

I have done extremely well with H-LVR in my four .32 Win Specials using the RCBS 08-170 boolit which weighs 182 grains fully dressed. I have chronographed @ 2300 fps using the above mentioned H-LVR powder. Accuracy is remarkable and the ballistics are consistent. I have to watch my sizing diameter as my .32 Specials all like the RCBS 08-170 sized to .3225". I tried the Lyman 321297 bullet but could not get any of my .32's to feed it. The Ranch Dog 323-175 boolit likes to be sized to .3232" and loaded on top of 16.0 grains of 2400 for 1744 fps.
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Grand%20Lodge%20Tour/IMAG0024.jpg (http://s824.photobucket.com/user/bobddville/media/Grand%20Lodge%20Tour/IMAG0024.jpg.html)




http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Grand%20Lodge%20Tour/IMAG0023.jpg (http://s824.photobucket.com/user/bobddville/media/Grand%20Lodge%20Tour/IMAG0023.jpg.html)

First target is the RCBS 08-170 boolit using H-LVR @ 2300 fps. Shot with my 1957 vintage Marlin 336SC with ballard rifling. The second target is the RD 323-175 boolit, also at 182 grains fully dressed, shot with my target load of 16.0 grains of 2400 for 1744 fps. It too was fired from my 1957 Marlin 336SC. Both groups are at 50 yards and that particular 336C wears a Leupold VX-1 2x7x33 scope.

358 Win

[TXGunNut]

LVR did indeed work well in the old girl today. Loose nut behind the butt ruined the best group so will have to test that load again. Trigger time on this little rifle is very pleasant so I don't mind. ;-) The Accurate 322-170A worked quite well in my buddy's rifle today, he's a real fan of that 16gr 2400 load.... I got it from him except he was shooting it in a 30-30. :-)

[FromTheWoods]

TXGN,

I've recently been chasing a load for .32 special but with 196 gr gc bullets. It's looking as if RL7 will give exceptional accuracy from 27-27.5 grains. Win-26"-takedown.

Below are comments I found during the quest from different forums on reloading .32 WS with 170 grain bullets. Hope this information is helpful to you.

CAST
-----Unfortunately, Lyman has ignored this caliber for several years in their 48th edition. I think this is also true for the 47th. I went to Ken Waters "pet loads", and found that the current offerings for molds did not support what he shot and worked up with lead. I'll infer (and have done so), that you would have a safe and effective load if you went by the .322 sizing, and that you can use either IMR 3031 or IMR 4895 or H4895. I've used them all and had good luck. I've loaded them to up to 2100fps with the lead RCBS 170gr. self-cast bullet. I'm not sure what you'll be shooting, but to use the faster velocities (over 1400fps), you'll need a gas checked bullet. You will always be safe using 30-30 data for the same weight bullet. That case is ever so slightly larger because of the increased dimeter, and pressures will be lower. I've got a real good load in 28gr. of H4895. IMR 3031 gives me really good accuracy at the 27 to 30gr. area. This also with the same RCBS 170gr. bullet.
-----i use 25 gr. RL7 with a 170 gr. cast shoots good
-----Congratulations on a good gun there. I love the 32 Spcl with cast bullets and do use H-4895. I use the RCBS 32-170-FNGC, WW alloy, and it shoots great in my old Win. M-94 with 28 gr. of that powder. I like the Rem. # 9 1/2 std. lg. rifle primer in that load.

JACKETED
-----31.0 gr of Rx7 is safe with a 170 jacketed
-----And just in case you have some on hand... I got my most accurate load (so far, and very limited testing) with 29.5 gr. of Alliant RL7 which also appears to be about max in my old (early 1900's) Winchester. I haven't chronographed it yet. At 30 grains the group opened a bit and I could feel a bit of resistance when rechambering the fired round, which is my little test for figuring when I have hit the upper limit. This with the Hornady 170 gr. Flat Point, CCI 200 primers, new Win. cases.
-----28 gr. RL7 with 170 gr. hornady that load is bout a 2 incher at 100 yd. the gun is a 1894 carbine made in 1911 with a fair bore

[TXGunNut]

TXGN,

I've recently been chasing a load for .32 special but with 196 gr gc bullets. It's looking as if RL7 will give exceptional accuracy from 27-27.5 grains. Win-26"-takedown.

Below are comments I found during the quest from different forums on reloading .32 WS with 170 grain bullets. Hope this information is helpful to you.

CAST
-----Unfortunately, Lyman has ignored this caliber for several years in their 48th edition. I think this is also true for the 47th. I went to Ken Waters "pet loads", and found that the current offerings for molds did not support what he shot and worked up with lead. I'll infer (and have done so), that you would have a safe and effective load if you went by the .322 sizing, and that you can use either IMR 3031 or IMR 4895 or H4895. I've used them all and had good luck. I've loaded them to up to 2100fps with the lead RCBS 170gr. self-cast bullet. I'm not sure what you'll be shooting, but to use the faster velocities (over 1400fps), you'll need a gas checked bullet. You will always be safe using 30-30 data for the same weight bullet. That case is ever so slightly larger because of the increased dimeter, and pressures will be lower. I've got a real good load in 28gr. of H4895. IMR 3031 gives me really good accuracy at the 27 to 30gr. area. This also with the same RCBS 170gr. bullet.
-----i use 25 gr. RL7 with a 170 gr. cast shoots good
-----Congratulations on a good gun there. I love the 32 Spcl with cast bullets and do use H-4895. I use the RCBS 32-170-FNGC, WW alloy, and it shoots great in my old Win. M-94 with 28 gr. of that powder. I like the Rem. # 9 1/2 std. lg. rifle primer in that load.

JACKETED
-----31.0 gr of Rx7 is safe with a 170 jacketed
-----And just in case you have some on hand... I got my most accurate load (so far, and very limited testing) with 29.5 gr. of Alliant RL7 which also appears to be about max in my old (early 1900's) Winchester. I haven't chronographed it yet. At 30 grains the group opened a bit and I could feel a bit of resistance when rechambering the fired round, which is my little test for figuring when I have hit the upper limit. This with the Hornady 170 gr. Flat Point, CCI 200 primers, new Win. cases.
-----28 gr. RL7 with 170 gr. hornady that load is bout a 2 incher at 100 yd. the gun is a 1894 carbine made in 1911 with a fair bore


Thanks! I'm not surprised to see a lot of support for Rx7. Felt pretty certain it was a good fit for this cartridge. LVR seems is showing lots of promise. Need to take a closer look at 3031 as well. Something tells me this may be one of those cartridges that isn't fussy about powders.